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Shocked at What I Hear on HF

Bryan Beam (W4HLD) on February 16, 2017
View comments about this article!

Recently I decided to get back on HF. I put up a dipole and turned on the rig. I scanned 40 meters and the first QSO I heard was full of profanity and the topics being discussed should not be via ham radio. I was first ashamed and then angry that ham radio has come to this.

I was last on HF about three years ago. I had noticed some of this activity on 75/80 meters. Evidently it's spread.

Some will say, spin the dial or turn off the radio. I get it and don't disagree. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic but I'm afraid as the years go on this type of behavior will become more and more common.

I've been a proud ham for over 40 years. I hope I continue to be proud of our hobby. I want to be comfortable to introduce ham radio to my grandchildren and not be worried about what they may hear.

The reason for this post is to ask those that may use profanity on the air and discuss vulgar subjects to not do so. Please be respectful of the audience and the great (clean) hobby. Don't lower yourself. Anyone who earned their ham radio license should have enough pride in themselves to not stoop to this level.

Thanks for listening.

Bryan, W4HLD

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Discussion on ham radio is nothing more than a refection of what is happening in society at large. Thankfully for the sensible and moderates there is contesting, dxing and number collecting so we do not have to listen to or deal with the alt right dribble that is polluting the world and ultimately some parts of our radio spectrum.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by ONAIR on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I agree, some of the language and subject matter has gotten way out of hand. I recently heard a conversation where an older ham was "elmering" a young ham on how to get college girls into bed, and using terms that were beyond explicit! If you really want to be in for a shock, just do as search for the "renegade repeater" on Broadcastify.com It's actually being streamed live over the internet!
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K8DK on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
CW works for me.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by AK4YH on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Thankfully for the sensible and moderates there is contesting"

The behavior of some contesters is often the worst of what I hear on HF. They have no regard for non-participants, park themselves on QRP calling frequencies with 500W and call non-stop for hours. They will squash anyone as long as they can fill their log book. they take whole bands, sometimes all of them, except WARC, for whole weekends when operating for regular hams is all but impossible. It is similar to road rage I guess when regular people become monsters while driving. Contest organizers don't seem to care.

So, "thankfully," I don't think so...

Gil.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N4OI on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Spin the dial, disconnect the mic, plug in the paddle --- Life is Good again! :>)

73
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N3HKN on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Where is the ARRL on this. SILENT! Chaos is the new acceptable norm in government and the Amateur Radio bands.

Dues collection and QSL management are their prime mission.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KT8DX on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I avoid all this by sticking to CW anywhere and 17 meter SSB. Nice people in both places. 50 mhz has great people too, but if very sparse for me most of the time.

3995? Yuck.

Peace and 73s

KT8DX
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W2UIS on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Try DStar.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N9CM on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I agree that in some conversations, the language and subject matter is inappropriate but our present society wants "freedom of speech" regardless how off color.

I heard a conversation between two younger ops about female anatomy, etc (won't go into the details) and berating older "stupid" ops and neither one knew how to properly have their radio set as both were over driving and distorted, one with RF in his signal. It was painful to hear the short time I came across them.

All you have to do is turn on the TV and listen to the extreme leftist talk and bias in news reporting to see where our society is heading. One reason I won't listen to the news much as events are not reported but spun and fabricated often. Not worth it. Ham radio won't be any different when you consider the cross section you are experiencing.

Best to go on CW and enjoy a relaxing QSO or rag chew on SSB and if it turns ugly or whatever, switch it off or QSY. Life is too short to allow oneself to be annoyed with nonsense and insensitive, inappropriate people.

Just be "wise" as to how you conduct yourself when on the air and likely, you won't have a problem.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by AC9EJ on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
As a returning ham and new to operating HF phone,,, I have to say, folks have been pretty cordial and decent. On this topic though, I have to wonder, are hams no longer policing themselves ?

I really think if I encountered illegal, profane or otherwise obnoxious operating, I would try to document it, identify the offending stations and if it was that bad, I would report them.

I cant see that kind of thing happening to any large degree of hams do not tolerate it.

Just my two cents.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K3EY on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
VK4FFAB---WELL SAID!

I agree on convicts, er contesters, it's no different than hearing potty mouths and high school like behavior from 60 year old's acting like they are still in competition with Macho types. It's pathetic and a sad reflection of our depraved world. It's also why I am 100 percent CW.

For years (35) I hated contests and when they are on I am off. I never do a SSB and only a FEW of the CW QRP tests. It's almost like if you don't do contests, you shouldn't own a radio.

Regardless VK4FFAB says it all---it starts and ends with his remarks.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K3EY on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
AC9EJ sorry sir but you are way OUT of touch. If you did as you say you would be ignored and laughed at. Try it if you don't think so.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W5TTW on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
What happened when you contacted the offenders to voice your displeasure? Did you bother trying or simply decide to bitch about it on the internet?
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W1XYZ on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Ham radio is certainly not always an example of the good and neighborly discourse that still goes on in America. 80 have become a cesspool racism as emboldened hams take their grey-haired views (and a beer) to the airwaves. The general public agrees that the spectrum hams occupy should be better used for their cellphones and devices. The larger problem is the FCC: Read Wheeler's departing remarks which have been removed from the FCC website:http://blog.rfvenue.com/a-chairmans-farewell/
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W9ALF on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
To be fair, there is extreme talk and garbage "news" on both sides of the aisle, not just the left.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W4XKE on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Yes, it's 2017. As much as many people would like to have life the way it was - things have certainly changed across society as a whole.

I know people who are appalled at the language youngsters use in everyday talk these days and have decided to home-school their kids. But there's still television and sports contests and contact with other kids who don't have pristine incentives at home.

It only takes a day or two for kids to discover who's parents aren't home from work for 3 more hours - and that's where the party is every afternoon. Past generations of kids grew up and a lot of them are hams now. I agree - I wish it wasn't so.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K8QV on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Like it or not, times change. Television networks can now show married couples sleeping in the same bed. They're allowed to use the word "pregnant" in their shows. Sometimes people even say "damn." Duck tails and flat tops aren't common anymore either.
 
K8DK --- Right-On  
by VE3CUI on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I agree 101% with K8DK's sentiment: forget the voice modes, & stick exclusively to CW…being reasonably proficient in code takes some initial discipline and a modicum of dedication, traits that are obviously lacking in these microphone grabbing units.

At the very worst, CW contacts are of the the "UR 599 HR GL & 73" variety, but at least they are not profane & crude --- it takes far more work to spell out each & every 4-letter word on CW, than these people are capable of even contemplating, never-mind executing.

You will NOT regret it.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KB2SMS on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Fortunately it's only on a couple of select frequencies.
But the FCC and ARRL does very little if anything about it. Most of us know the "Bad" frequencies so just stay away from them.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K1CJS on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
With all due respects, Just where have you been?

Not only is it a reflection of what is happening to society in general, it's been that way since the licensing standards have been lowered, and I'm not referring to the dropping of the CW tests, which had to happen sooner or later.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by NY7Q on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
rules an laws for broadcast are totally different for ham radio. Lots of idiots don't read enough to understand that fact. Each of the 3.840 and 7.255 operators should have their tickets revoked and fined for their reckless behavior. They just don't understand this is a hobby and they are destroying it.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K8QV on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Communication, whether conversational, personal, commercial, amateur or via entertainment venues is not like it was half a century ago. WE are not like we were half a century ago. Sadly, every age has had its self appointed arbiters of morality, etiquette and propriety longing for the rigidity of their past. Since nobody has ever been able to stem the tide of societal evolution, the best thing to do is lighten up a bit and don't take yourself and others so seriously.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by AA4MB on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I'm certainly no prude in any way. That said, I generally distance myself from folks who use vulgarities in everyday language. This is yet another reason for which I've never regretted staying primarily a CW guy for 43 years. I forayed up into the 40 meter phone segment a couple of weeks ago and decided that I'd listen to a group of guys chewing the fat while fiddling around cleaning the shack. It didn't take long at all to hear expletives - and if any of the guys had been worked up at something or angry in general, I wouldn't have minded so much. As it was, it appeared strictly gratuitous, which is frequently indicative of no more than laziness in language.

I agree with most of you - it remains against Part 97 regulations and it's too bad that we have an FCC which no longer believes amateur radio is worthy of enforcement actions.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KI8DJ on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I bet 99 percent of these miscreants are Trump voters emboldened by his hate rallies.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KB3NFM on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I agree that times have indeed changed, but that is no EXCUSE to justify boorish, obscene, racist, sexist and very obscene language on any band or mode. Unfortunately, there is no cure for stupid. These louts should ask themselves if they would use such language and comments in front of their parents, children, and grandchildren or in face to face conversations with others. It’s easy to be an anonymous Ahole hiding behind a microphone with little fear of being caught or sanctioned.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by WX4O on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I heard this first in '75 on 3898.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KB2DHG on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Although I have encountered this type of behavior on the HF bands, I just turn the dial and just look for a decent QSO. It is bothering but this is not just a problem with Ham Radio. We all have become vulgar and rude. I miss the early days of respect and dignity...
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W0LD on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Agree with the toxic tone these days on 40 and 75 meters. The way to change a culture is to start with myself as an individual. If each of us who are reading this thread were get on the air and practice a respectful culture, sooner or later it can shift a toxic culture. Decent behavior shines in the midst of a dark culture. Let's bring some hope, encouragement and positive light back to the air as we engage.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K9MHZ on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"I bet 99 percent of these miscreants are Trump voters emboldened by his hate rallies."

What an idiotic post.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K9MHZ on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"I agree 101% with K8DK's sentiment: forget the voice modes, & stick exclusively to CW…being reasonably proficient in code takes some initial discipline and a modicum of dedication, traits that are obviously lacking in these microphone grabbing units."

Totally agree. Grabbing a microphone is easy. Putting forth some effort tends to attract higher caliber people by default. Even on the VHF/UHF bands, the higher freqs and more esoteric modes weed out the losers.

Good people out there, so don't get discouraged.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by WY4J on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
These morons on 40 meters are the same bottom feeders that were on 14.213. The FCC shut that little group down with fines and license suspensions. Now they seemed to have moved to 40M. Best thing is to email Laura Smith the FCC's Enforcement General Council. Laura is a pretty tough cookie and has been able to put quite a few of these malcontents out of business.

You can email her at laura.smith@fcc.gov and she will even reply to thank you.

Believe or not, if enough of us complaint she will come down hard on them.

73,
Ed
WY4J
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by NN2X on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
What is fascinating about this subject, is that what band you are on has something with behavior!

For example on 17 meter band, "The gentlemen band" is generally quite civil, while some other bands (80 Meters), or portion of 40 meters has at least CB lingo to say the least..

This phenomena is called social cognitive behavior.

This effect is what explains certain regions of the world practicing a certain religion, traditions, or mentality, which is specific to a region.

I just find this very interesting that Social cognitive is finding itself on Ham bands...Just partitioned by frequency bands, rather the various regions of the world...Amazing!

 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N2UJN on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
All of my conversations have been polite, professional and positive on 40m.

Once in a great while, I hear something unusual, but, move on. Plenty of other frequencies.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9CFM on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
KI8DJ, I voted for Trump and I prefer that you not try to lump me into a stereotype with those who are the subject of this thread. Hopefully you don't think that the Hillary voters all have halos above their heads - those would have fallen off when they were setting fires and breaking store windows during the protests.
 
Don't Mix...  
by VE3CUI on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
The old adage of, "Do NOT discuss sex, politics, or religion on the Ham bands" has certainly fallen upon deaf ears, even in THIS particular aspect of the hobby…

Trump-Shrump, Clinton-Shminton, who really cares…? Be your OWN person, and let others GUESS as to your true mental acumen (or acute LACK thereof), rather than confirming it for them.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by NY7Q on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
-yeah I did contact them, and they all called me a mutha f-cker and told me to get off the freq.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KF4HR on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
80M phone at night time probably wins the prize for the worse language on the bans. It seems some hams just enjoy pushing their limits of freedom of speech. I picture young kids "tuning in" to this mess for their first time and hearing this language. The negative influence this must be creating for the young, newer hams is depressing. Sure one can always tune to a different frequency but should that be necessary on the amateur bands? And how long will it be before new hams start thinking using foul language on the air, is the norm?

Something really should be done. I'm guessing the ARRL wouldn't want to spearhead this issue because it might negatively influence their membership numbers, but assuming the FCC nailed down certain language thresholds and would be willing prosecute violators, hams could put together a plan and get things cleaned up.



 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
park themselves on QRP calling frequencies with 500W and call non-stop for hours.

Gil.


HAHAHAHA Gil did someone touch you on the frequency like some dx pedophile? Guess what OM, there are no QRP calling frequencies and no frequencies that you own either for exclusive use. Even if you like to use and generally can those frequencies.

No one owns a frequency, calling or not and bandplans here at least are not legally binding, though we all choose to follow them because we are not animals and live in a society.

Bandplans differ all around the world also, so if a bix dx station takes over your calling frequency, its tough luck, his bandplan might permit it.

Following the bandplan for ones own country is all that matters and the answer to this question.

QRL de vk4ffab?
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KK4YDR on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Alt right dribble? Are you serious?

Here is part of the problem right here. Everyone has free speech as long as they agree with you. Idiot liberals abound.

Your comment about the Alt right has no bearing on this conversation and you did nothing but seek to further the great divide between people.

Sure the bands have gotten sloppy but you are out of line. if you want to comment on American affairs and politics then by all means use some respect. We are sick of your lunatic leftist dominance over every facet of humanity - you freaking control demons.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KK5JY on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I really hope prospective hams don't read the headlines on eHam. The list of articles often reads like seminar night at a support group. Could we start putting our best foot forward on the front page, and discuss our problems in the forums?

Are we running short on technical articles? If so, maybe those of us who are technical should write more short pieces for the front pages?
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Alt right dribble? Are you serious?

In my experience, and what i hear when listening to the bands, the rubbish conversations tends towards ultra conservative topics, homophobia, misogyny and racism.

This is not to say there are not alt left types espousing the virtues of Marx and Lennon, its just that I do not hear those conversations.

So, yes, it is what it is.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K9CTB on February 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Yeah. CW. All that, right?

CW nite for me:

OM: (describes his rig)
ME: (describes my rig) + Using a CW keyboard (copying manually)
OM: I DONT WORK MACHINES 73
ME: (no "dit-dit") - back to PSK31

It is what it is. Too many of us think we're just better than we actually are, and that makes us CERTAIN we're better than the next bohunk. Public school, I guess.
<laugh>

73,
K9CTB
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K9CTB on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Forgot to mention ... the OM calls CQ immediately after he hangs up on me ... and I was there first! :D
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W7ASA on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
It's been my experience that the fouler and louder the mouth, the weaker the person.



73 de Ray ..._ ._


I only have small problems on-the-air. Then again, I only have a small radio.

 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KQ4YA on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I spent my working life in newsrooms - where the language would make a Marine DI blush. So I'm not as bothered by that as some and, as others here have said, it's a reflection of the times.

What does bother me are the groups that are becoming more common - usually camped consistently on specific frequency - that intentionally interfere with each other, where music is played and the general idea seems to be to turn that frequency into an armed camp.

It does seem like the FCC should enforce the rules to some degree. I know they are understaffed and overworked. But when it comes to truly blatant breaking of the rules, I would hope that they could find the time and resources to remove these offenders from the ranks of amateur radio.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK3BL on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Well, its not often I agree with VK4FFAB, but I must admit I do not enjoy hearing homophobia, racism, sexism and the rest on air.

I strongly believe that HAM radio should be free of politics; after all, half the reason ham radio is allowed in all but 2 countries is exactly because we shun politics.

Unfortunately, we are entering turbulent times, and I do hope we can do our best as a group to stick to one of the core tenets of HAM radio.

For anyone thinking my remarks here are based on the political situation in any country right now, they are not.

I think we can all agree that Western Society has lost its way, even if we can't agree on the correct solution.

Hatred towards others is however something I abhor and will not participate in.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KA2LIM on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
A direct result of relaxation in the testing system for entry into amateur radio. Flame away!
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KA2LIM on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
A direct result of relaxation in the testing system for entry into amateur radio. Flame away!
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K9MHZ on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"I would hope that they could find the time and resources to remove these offenders from the ranks of amateur radio."

Isn't going to happen. Making headlines are the tremendous costs we're facing for infrastructure and military equipment modernization. Committing a dime more to tracking down a bunch of socially inept losers on ham radio would go over like excrement in a punch bowl.

We're on our own.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by WW6L on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
no, he is right
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K8YZK on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I have seen comments about where is the ARRL. Well the ARRL can't control what other people do as they have NO power, and this kind of talk has been going on for at least as long as I have been licensed (50yrs), and it will not change anytime soon. I did see the comment about CW and 17 meters and I have to agree.

Ham radio is just a mirror of what is going on outside of hr. If you want to change it, then get on and make the kind of contacts you want.

Kurt
K8YZK
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K9MHZ on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"no, he is right"

"Right" about what? The "I would hope part?" Except for the military, federal hiring has been stopped in case you haven't heard. Maybe since you had a KI6 2X3 call before your vanity, you weren't around during the Rawly years. Like him or hate him, he was THE one who wasn't afraid to be direct with us in stating that WE need to grow up and handle our own affairs. Hearing an F-bomb on 75 meters and then running to the FCC will accomplish nothing today.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by WX4SNO on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Hear, hear! I wholeheartedly agree. If I answer a CQ and they start in talking dirty, I just leave them hanging on that frequency and move on without a word...very disrespectful and shows how immature these individuals are. World would be better off if folks respected one another and left the profanity at the door.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N0ETR on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
It's pretty bad, but seems to be the norm these days. People used to respect other people, and want the respect of other people. These days people don't care what your opinion is of them is and only want to satisfy there need to push other people around. If you want to be a HAM these days you have to willing to compromise and let the bullies be bullies. The FCC is just another government organization that is at the end of it's useful life span and needs to be put out of it's misery. Back in the day, when people had morals, the FCC could respond to complaints and do something about violators, but today there are so many violators there is no way the FCC can, or even wants to do anything. The phone portion of the HF bands is now a free for all, because Hams know the FCC is powerless. All the FCC will do is slap them on the wrist. Hams on the VHF/UHF bands tend to watch what they say a little more because the audience is a lot smaller and is comprised of local people. Sometimes shutting a violator down is as easy as shutting down a repeater for awhile. Threads like this one are making me want to find another hobby. All people do is complain about how crappy the bands are getting. Been a ham for 35 years but it might be time to get out.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K9MHZ on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Rawly"

Ugh....proofread. That <enter> key happens too quickly.

Riley, Riley, Riley.

OK.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N9AOP on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What is termed to be offensive is also in the same eye. To some individuals, free speech is only OK when it supplies their views. 80 & 40M are very wide bands and there seem to be only a few spots that are inhabited by individuals that are offensive to you. Why go there?
Art
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Laura was reassigned from June 2014 until June 2016, so Laura didn't do anything about 14.313 and nothing has been done about 7.200. No fines collected; no one lost privileges, and people left 20 meters because sunspots are unfavorable - and that's the only reason. At Pacificon last October, Laura said the "OOs would be the first line of defense in amateur enforcement." A letter isn't enforcement, and neither the FCC, nor the ARRL, nor the Tooth Fairy, will be coming to rescue ham radio from people using harsh language.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K8QV on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Even with our entire history showing the futility of it, people still devote much of their energy to worrying about what other people do. I guess it's in our DNA.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KT4EP on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I've heard it, too. Many of the guys give their call although sometimes in a quick and slurred way. Where are the OO's? Meanwhile, I'll stay with JT-65.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by AH6FC on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Unfortunately most is a reflection of society as a whole.

Big government and it's "intervention" is typically a bad thing. However, prosecution of these bad operators might send the right message....but maybe not.

Agree, CW takes you away from it all...except for the intentional QRM operators.

Keep politics out of it. Those that spew their political hatred (sorry for the adjective) are more often the hypocrites and trouble makers.

Again, too much a reflection of society as a whole. Very unfortunate.

No, I'm not a prude...I can take on the "best" locker room boys, but there is a time and place...the ham bands are not the place.

See how many flame throwers I get now :)

73 to all
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KI7AAR on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Rules are rules. Follow them or loose your license.

I personally don't want to hear profanity, politics or religion on the air. Nothing against religion but, there are so many beliefs that we should not try to impose ours upon others. I'd never make it as an evangelist. :)
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KI7AAR on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Rules are rules. Follow them or loose your license.

I personally don't want to hear profanity, politics or religion on the air. Nothing against religion but, there are so many beliefs that we should not try to impose ours upon others. I'd never make it as an evangelist. :)
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1RDS on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
A perfect example of the stupidity on the air. Maybe you missed the violent protesters demonstrating violently as if it's their right.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K5TED on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Those people are not on ham radio. They are on social media, where all the organization for Berkeley burnings, blocking ambulance runs, attacking the elderly or disabled, and open calls for assassinations happen. This is 2017.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K6CRC on February 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
The FCC has rules and regs.
The ARRL is dedicated to making Ham radio fun and safe.
So, why isn't either group doing their JOBS here?
ARRL in not an enforcement agency, but IS a LOBBYING agency.
Stop spending members money on 'Spectrum Defence" -- UHF bands that few if any Hams are using.
Spend the money and lobby/shame/sue the FCC to do their job policing the airwaves.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by NL7AA on February 18, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
CW was a pain but seperated the motivated from the CBers. Good luck with with FCC now that Trump has destroied it?

73's
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on February 18, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Obama and Wheeler ruined the reputation of the agency by allowing a supposedly independent agency to become an arm of the administration, and by allowing the Enforcement Bureau to harass entities by pursuing forfeitures in gray areas of the law, overreach, misleading statements, and ignoring inconvenient facts that interfered with their attention-grabbing headlines.

Also, almost half of the field offices were closed and half the staff were let go in the EB, in the Obama/Wheeler era, because Washington decided to focus on legal areas outside their purview, like the Internet and privacy.

I'm happy FCC Chairman Pai's reversing some of the waste, fraud, and abuse that the FCC became infamous for, under Obama and Wheeler, and their cronies, and the best part is, Chairman Pai says he's not done yet!

+ An FCC ‘Abuse Of Process Ends Now’ Read more at: http://rbr.com/pai-consent-decree0209/

+ Ajit Pai cuts subsidies to 9 providers over allegations of fraud. Read more at: https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-333992A5.docx

+ Ajit Pai says FCC enforcement has 'gone off the rails.' Read more at: https://prodnet.www.neca.org/publicationsdocs/wwpdf/12315pai.pdf



 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by AC7CW on February 18, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Any ham can go to whitehouse.gov and put in a suggestion. Our ham hobby was a technical talent pool during the Cold War so the "free speech movement" was used to destroy it, and still is. Maybe if the disgusting pieces of garbage that befoul the airways can be punished enough to get them gone we will feel better about introducing young people to the hobby again, no?
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N9LCD on February 18, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Why complain about what you hear on HF?

You probably go to the movies (or use dvds) to WATCH & LISTEN to the same crap or worst!!!
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by WH6WJ on February 18, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
One thing we also need to consider is that anyone can buy a radio licensed or not especially with the influx of cheaply priced radios. We can blame the FCC for laxed enforcement, licensing requirements, etc. It does not matter. The FCC seems to be paying more attention in areas that will bring in big money.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KD8AMR on February 18, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I filed a complaint with the FCC. IF all of us do the same, it may get heard. I'm a retired firefighter, so I'm used to and use profanity. But the stuff that is heard on 7.200 and 14.300 is obscene, racist and rude. It won't happen, but I wish them all a $25k fine.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K1VCT on February 18, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I have not been a Ham for a long time, five months with a General ticket.

But, before that, I'd listen to the rag chewers, and contesters, the CW... all the time on my R75, and Lowe HF-150. I've been involved in SWL for 50+ years and still make my living working with radio - UHF low power data and telemetry.

When I finally decided to get my amateur license, INTEGRITY was stressed as much as the administrative and technical aspects of operation.

Working mostly 40 meters, I hear contesters right on 7300kHz, bleeding over badly 4kHz in both directions. Clearly that is uncalled for operation. Also been chewed out high and low by more than one contester who was calling plain old CQ without the "CQ Contest". Laced with profanity, I was told to get off the air and quit wasting their time. Huh?

I don't blame the contesters, except for operating out of band. I do think a bit less of the contest organizers, for holding a competition that is so broad in scope that it effectively ties up the HF spectrum for a weekend, sometimes a 3day weekend.

The hootin' and hollerin' on 7200kHz has mostly abated. Since my antenna wont cover 75/80 meters, I don't know whats happening on 3840kHz. If those frequencies are occupied by the inconsiderate operators, then its easy to spin the dial past the mess. That is, unless I catch Captain "Yowwwzaa" Dave in the middle of one of his liver destruction exercises. I might actually listen to his stuff, annoying as it is, somehow I find it strangely entertaining, for maybe 5 or 10 minutes!

And maybe my pet peeve....is the use of QSL as a term.

"You gonna be at the club meeting tonight, QSL?"
"Yup, QSL?"
"Coffees on me, QSL?"
"QSL on that QSL, QSL?"
and into QSL oblivion ad nauseum....

Ok, rant mode off. Back to WTWW tonite!
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC2NZW on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I knew this would happen once they eliminated the code requirement from the test, I just new it, that's one of the reasons why I haven't been on the air in years!!
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W3DCB on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Please do not take offense... However, have you been watching the news lately? Have you not seen the liberal spoiled snowflakes melting down in the streets of Berkeley burning cars; destroying property; throwing bricks and rocks at peace officers; screaming the most vile garbage from their mouths as they have their children in tow? (By the way a study performed in the UK by Pugh demonstrates that 82% of these snowflakes are still living in their parents homes; better than 60% are totally unemployed.) What we hear on the ham bands is mild compared to what is going on in society as a whole which reflects a total breakdown of any civility, almost all from the left which is where it always starts. Every revolution and attempted coup in modern times except for the American Revolution has come from the left be at the National Socialists or Communists. We just elected a president and the losing side has decided to mount a campaign of "resistance." Of course, what they are really doing is attempting a coup against the new government. I understand that this is not a political forum. However the reality is inescapable.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by WZ7U on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
This is silly. The hand wringing and lamenting of a past that never truly existed except in one's mind is ridiculous. If your tender sensibilities are so easily bruised perhaps it's time you hang it up and take up knitting. You are exposed to all this and more every time you turn on your television and you don't complain about it. No, you pay $100 or more a month for it and lap it up. Of course the fault can be found in the guy on the opposite side of your political fence so let's demonize them over it.

The funniest part is that you expect the government to make it all better for you. The same government that has you hoodwinked into believing they alone can solve your non existent problems for you. The same kabal of liars and charlatans that have run this once great republic into the dungheap of relevance are the same ones that you want to do all your dirty work for you because you are too lazy to call out the scofflaws yourself.

If the things you hear on the air offend you so much, either spin the knob or call the perpetrators out for their actions. If just half of you that continually whine about this subject stood up for yourselves to these self appointed tough guys behind microphones there would be twice as many of you than of them. As it stands now most of you sound like old men yelling at clouds. Go learn Morse, go find a different mode to try, go to the WARC bands, just stop listening to the mealymouthed mental masturbators that irritate you so much. Big daddy fcc isn't going to help you put your big boy pants on; you have to do that for yourselves. Grow up for (readcted)s sake.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by WZ7U on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
(redacted)s sake. Damn autocorrect.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"However the reality is inescapable"

Pretty sure your reality is closer to fantasy in this alternate fact world we now live in.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
NZW. Wow. I can't believe that some people still blame it on the no coders.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K5NOK on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
All you who blame no-coders there is hope.
Read the eHam news section.
Louie the cat can send Morse code!!!
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SHORTWIRE on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
The Degenerate Left is currently the worlds biggest problem, and that has been evident for about 60 years!. The problem accelerated after the invention of broadband and smartarsephones…

The world media, including (anti)social media, is working as a catalyst or amplifier for this. humans brainwashing each other all their waking hours. The internet has not been kind to the marginally evolved simians populating earth, and every conflict is amplified by it..

Humans alone can be quite intelligent and wise.
Humans in large groups become dumb, panicky animals.

Abolishing the internet would solve a lot, but will not be popular, i think.

Solution not found…
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SHORTWIRE on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
What I forgot to say is:

Global communication = The BABBLEFISH
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W4KVW on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Just more Proof of the virtually Toothless Lion aka:FCC & it will only get worse.We can't regulate ourselves when you have some who could care less about others opinions or concerns & a confrontation with many of these pathetic clowns would result in someone being seriously injured or dead.That Rogue Repeater in California is a disgrace to anything relating to Amateur Radio as are the majority of the low life individuals who misue it & the FCC is fully aware of what goes on there daily & by whom but again they are no longer feared with most all of their teeth sitting in a jar in a locked up office somewhere.I'd suggest using that Big Knob or changing bands completely because there are low life bottom feeders in every hobby or activity.If that don't work I'd suggest another hobby where I'm sure you will find more of the same unless that hobby keeps you at home alone & you can do it all by yourself.

Clayton
W4KVW
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K4ZMV on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Don't think I've ever participated in one of these babble-fests, but I do want to add my 2 cents for whatever it is not worth. First, this is not the proper forum for political views. I have mine and you have yours. I'll keep mine to myself and it would be appreciated if you would do the same. Second, I've been a ham for a long time; since I was 14 and I am nearly 73 now. My opinion is that the hobby has in many ways improved, but we are not attracting enough young people. Too many other technical distractions for them. Third, trash talk on the bands has ALWAYS been there, but you have to look for it. Radio manufacturers make knobs to change the frequency. Use them. I chase DX, eve drop on CW ragchews, and homebrew. I don't encounter much bad behavior except in the rare one pileups. In that case, I use the aforementioned knob. Lastly, for goodness sakes, lighten up. Do the things in this hobby that you enjoy and avoid the things that raise your blood pressure. With all that said, 73 and have a nice day.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by WB2NGX on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
The FCC just doesn't care anymore.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by ONAIR on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
The FCC just hasn't got the funding. With the nation now around $20 TRILLION dollars in debt, it's doubtful that they will be getting any more funds in the foreseeable future.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"but we are not attracting enough young people"

Just about all my radio friends are in their 30's and 40's, with a couple in their late 20's. We all mostly CW, homebrew and do a fair bit of portable. But you will not find us ever in a round table, net or any of the other typical old man radio activities.

For us, radio is a doing thing and has to have a point. We go portable to do SOTA, WWFF or IOTA, we contest, chase dx, collect numbers and if we want to discuss things, we use other more reliable methods of communication, like social media and the phone.

Its nothing more than a generational thing. When i first got on the radio I was expecting great discussions on technical matters and how to's, wonderful elmers and all the kinds of things that we get told used to happen. But mostly what i found was my parents, old people doing the kinds of things old people do like having a routine.

I was going to toss it all in until i met a few younger cats who actually liked to do stuff. Not just sit about in their "Shack" and talk about nothing, or worse still, talk about doing stuff and never doing anything.

So i got into doing radio and have never looked back. And that is the key here, you need to show the younger people the aspects of the hobby that are relevant to them. Not rag chews and round tables that will send them to sleep with their monotony and boredom. But rather that radio can be an activity that they can actively seek to do.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K9MHZ on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Don't think I've ever participated in one of these babble-fests, but I do want to add my 2 cents for whatever it is not worth."

Well, if you think this is beneath you, then maybe you should take your own advice and click the mouse on something else. Sheesh, how condescending.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VE7EA on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I have lived and operated CW-SSB-FM now in 6 countries. The crap on 40 and 80M SSB and AM (mostly the former) originates from the USA only. I have never heard such garbage generated from hams in the other 5 countries I have lived in. It is a very sad indictment of amateur radio in the USA.

The only and most effective way I know of dealing with such is to simply ignore them. These asshats, nutjobs and mentally challenged need an audience. They would soon enough disappear into the woodwork if we all just ignored them.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VE7VJ on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Wish I hadn't tossed the old QST magazines I had when I moved. I remember reading several letters complaining about the poor operators and shameful practices on the air. These were early 1950s issues. WAY before no code and apparently back when you had to mine and refine the ore for your radio cabinets and melt sand for glass to make your own tubes.

There have always been idiots and there always will be idiots.

Make complaints to the authorities and continue to make complaints. Maybe with enough they will take action.

The sad part is that some of these lousy ops are rewarded with a contact during contests or DXpeditions. They should be ignored.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W7ASA on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Unfortunately, the VE is ( to my nations' shame ) quite correct: this has its' roots in the nose dive in manners of the USA. Not all of the USA nor all of us as individuals, mind you, but we live in a lunatic asylum where we are told that shouting obscenities is 'normal in the 21st century'. It's in the streets recently also, with women, men and those somewhere in between dressing as vaginas and shouting obscenities for some rather fuzzy reasons. It did sound like much of 80 meters.

I'll remind the reader that 'common' behavior is not necessarily good behavior. In some parts of the world it's normal to love your neighbor and in other parts, it's normal to eat your neighbor. Which behavior is good, I leave to you to decide.


73 de Ray ..._ ._

 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N4JTE on February 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
First of all welcome back, actually things are not as bad from my perspective over 40 years.
Nothing will ever be addressed by fcc or anyone else so sorry but I just laugh at the crazies on there that got their beer supply probably paid for by the rest of us!
If you are that perplexed than jump in tell them your thoughts!! Finally,, this ain't no article and mis posted!
My Thought, hi
Bob
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W4AMP on February 20, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Highly ironic that hams from the province of British Columbia would ever complain about language they hear on HF.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K9MHZ on February 20, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Maybe, but they're right.

One thing though, and it's just a case of someone's perceptions being their reality....overseas, people are definitely not as mean to each other as they are here. However, that doesn't mean they're altogether nicer, either. Some of the most stoic and unengaging people that I come across are people in other countries. The concepts of generosity and and selflessness are not in their ways of thinking at all. Many are very selfish and boorish, but they just hide it better than we do. They have no sense of optimism, and live very existential lives.

For all of our faults, and there are many, it's not that great in other parts of the world, either.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on February 20, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
VE7VJ, I agree 100%. VE7EA, your BIO says you're active on CW, JT65, JT9, PSK31, or Olivia, or whichever HF band happens to be open and that you also check regional 80, 40 and 2M Canadian nets.

Since you're located along the Juan de Fuca, please tune to 14.313 USB and point your antenna toward Saanich, British Columbia on any given day between 2 PM local and your local sunset. This will add greatly to your already impressive body of knowledge.

73 and, thank you!
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K9MHZ on February 20, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
W4AMP....nice shack, BTW.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by NQ3C on February 20, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
..... I look at it as the evolution of CB into Ham Radio..... so I decided to chuck the mike and stick to CW.... works for me.... your mileage may vary...c..
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N0EKO on February 20, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
WY4J, thank you for the information.

73,
Jim
N0EKO
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KE4ZHN on February 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Over 20 years ago when I first got licensed, there were idiots on the bands cussing and jamming. The same morons are still there...jamming and cussing. I never listen to them. I tune past when I'm looking for a QSO and hear some of it and just keep spinning the VFO.

Sitting there listening to it and getting all mad about it is stupid. Why? The only one you hurt getting all pissed off over it is yourself. Why rattle your nerves over what some drunken fool does on the radio? It's only on a couple spots on the HF bands and not even worth worrying about. We all know the FCC is a paper tiger and so do they. That's why they do what they do.

The more people who give them attention, the more they will do what they do. You can complain to the FCC but it will fall on deaf ears. Just grow a pair and ignore it. There are too many places on HF where that crap isn't going on to worry about a handful of morons.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W3TTT on February 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
...Sheesh, how condescending...

Right back at'cha.

But I like "condescending". It goes with the oh, so hip, condescending, ironic, up your nose attitude - cool.

Most of my sending is condesending.

smiley face ==> :)

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W6SWO on February 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Then again, the Amateur Service is SUPPOSED to be self policing. An old CO of mine used to say, "Be careful for what you ask for, you might get it!"
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by WD4ED on February 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Look at most of these comments and you see why the bands are degrading. I took a break for a while and noticed the same thing when I got back into it. When I mentioned it I got the same types of replies that I hear right here. Mostly finger pointing at the other guy, dismissive statements that it's my imagination and many outright sticking their heads in the sand. And the worst is the "Spin the knob" bunch. Vulgar or not, you are not supposed to be "Offensive" on the air. "Spinning the knob" is not only sticking your head in the sand, but essentially acknowledges the activity and condoning it. Thus probably indicates you are part of the problem.

73's,

Ed
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VE3TMT on February 22, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
KB3NFM
I agree that times have indeed changed, but that is no EXCUSE to justify boorish, obscene, racist, sexist and very obscene language on any band or mode. Unfortunately, there is no cure for stupid. These louts should ask themselves if they would use such language and comments in front of their parents, children, and grandchildren or in face to face conversations with others. It’s easy to be an anonymous Ahole hiding behind a microphone with little fear of being caught or sanctioned.


I could not have said it better. I was in the shack the other day working on some other computer related issues and tuned the radio up on a QSO in the 40m SSB portion. WOW! My first thought was to jump in and voice my disgust, but what will that get? It will just get them going. "Leave it alone and it'll go away" is obviously not working either.

The idea of putting up a yagi for 17m is more appealing every day.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VE3TMT on February 22, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Yeah. CW. All that, right?

CW nite for me:

OM: (describes his rig)
ME: (describes my rig) + Using a CW keyboard (copying manually)
OM: I DONT WORK MACHINES 73
ME: (no "dit-dit") - back to PSK31

It is what it is. Too many of us think we're just better than we actually are, and that makes us CERTAIN we're better than the next bohunk. Public school, I guess.
<laugh>

73,
K9CTB


HAHA, some of the stations I've heard should not be on CW period, their sending is that bad.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K9MHZ on February 22, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"HAHA, some of the stations I've heard should not be on CW period, their sending is that bad."

Yeah, but at least they're trying. Watch what you complain about because the alternative isn't good.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KE4ZHN on February 22, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
WD4ED-Ed For the record sir, I don't condone what goes on on those frequencies. However, after watching the FCC send numerous letters and fine several notorious individuals with no results over the course of 20 years, it wakes you up to the fact that carping and whining about it like you do does no good whatsoever. Feel free to continue to whine about those of us who ignore it Ed, I have better things to do. Like enjoying the places on the bands where the idiots don't hang around. Have a nice day.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by WD4ED on February 22, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I'm sorry. I didn't think I was whining. That appears to be what you are doing when discussing the FCC. Pot.... Kettle....

Ed
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KM6EBW on February 22, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Being a new ham, I am bewildered by the lack of concern over this topic. Just do CW, change frequencies, ignore it, it's just a reflection of society,etc.
Excuses are just a cop out for doing nothing to protect the professional standing this hobby/service offers.
Ham radio is not the free speech we hear about on nightly news. It is controlled by the FCC and the good folks operating with ethics, morality, and a little bit of class.
I've heard hams break into the foulest of conversations politely asking the operators to watch their language. Invariably the hams are viciously attacked.
Amateur radio is a relatively small community. Everyone needs to do their part to keep the worst offenders off the net.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KM6EBW on February 22, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Being a new ham, I am bewildered by the lack of concern over this topic. Just do CW, change frequencies, ignore it, it's just a reflection of society,etc.
Excuses are just a cop out for doing nothing to protect the professional standing this hobby/service offers.
Ham radio is not the free speech we hear about on nightly news. It is controlled by the FCC and the good folks operating with ethics, morality, and a little bit of class.
I've heard hams break into the foulest of conversations politely asking the operators to watch their language. Invariably the hams are viciously attacked.
Amateur radio is a relatively small community. Everyone needs to do their part to keep the worst offenders off the net.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W5MCU on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Huh. Lucky me, I must have bought a really great Ham Radio Rig...! After being away from radio for 50 years and working in commercial radio I returned and found many of the wonderful congenial hams I heard when I was 12 years old.

Many discuss their rigs and their life experiences. Others - especially in other countries - seem genuinely happy to be able to converse with folks on the other side of the globe.

Politics belongs elsewhere as does name calling and profanity.

So I am ever so happy my rig has the ability to change frequencies ever so quickly and find a signal from someone with a smile on their face and a lilt in their voice.

Some may be "parked on a frequency" or contesting. What difference does it make? We are able to play in this great playground of radio. Sure, there are some ruffians, but who cares. Get a radio like mine and flip the dial. What awaits may just be that 100th country you are seeking.

Call me a pollyanna, but I personally still marvel at the magic!
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
It's hilarious when somebody puts the blame on "alt-right" as if alt-left and all other new terms or old term radicals aren't part of many problems. But hey let's single one side out since that's always easier and shows your agenda and does nothing to help, with anything.

The problem isn't political beliefs, the problem is people with little regard for other people. This problem has gone on since more than 1 person has had access to the air waves, people of all belief systems have access and the bad ones will act badly, it's what they do.

They have been there since day one, they have been there since before no code techs, they have been there since the supposed dumbing down of amateur testing and they will continue to be there until this hobby no longer exists.

You have people who read these things and shout turn the VFO or complain about these kinds of threads as if their commenting isn't exactly what they're complaining about.

I remember when I got my first rig, I chanced upon 14.275 and the loons were out in force. Then they went to 14.313, 3840, 7200 etc etc etc...

Nothing we do, the FCC does or anybody else does will stop idiots from acting like idiots in which ever hobby they participate in. These threads will continue to be posted, which in my view is fine because sometimes you need to vent about the morons you hear, sadly people who think you should turn the VFO will ignore their own advice and tell you how you should react to those idiots on the air and these threads.

End of rant. :)
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Quote - VK4FFAB "In my experience, and what i hear when listening to the bands, the rubbish conversations tends towards ultra conservative topics, homophobia, misogyny and racism."

Your politics have zero to do with idiots on the air, they come from all walks of life, not just the ones you dislike or disagree with.

I have heard racist Hispanics on the air, I have heard racist white people and I have heard homophobic black people on the air and misogynistic remarks are made by all kinds of idiots but nice of you to lump them all into a convenient basket of "ultra conservative" as if only they could act that way.

I prefer to lump all idiots of all races into one idiot basket where they belong instead of judging the ones that don't fit into my political perspective, you may want to give that a try.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
QUOTE - KC2NZW "I knew this would happen once they eliminated the code requirement from the test, I just new it, that's one of the reasons why I haven't been on the air in years!"

Seriously, you honestly think this wasn't going on before they ended the CW requirement?? Some of the worst offenders have had Extra tickets for literally decades.

Those that believe lowering the requirements brought in bad elements are being obtuse.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KE4ZHN on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
If some of you guys spent half as much time operating as you do bitching and complaining about all the things wrong with the hobby you may actually enjoy yourselves. Worrying too much about what others do or say is why some of you have high blood pressure. Right Ed?
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
The loons are loose on 7200 today, the good thing about that is, they're all in one place driving each other crazy instead of spreading it.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
QUOTE: KC9NRN I prefer to lump all idiots of all races into one idiot basket where they belong instead of judging the ones that don't fit into my political perspective, you may want to give that a try.

I know that a lot of people say the media in the USA is the cause of a dumbing down of the electorate. I never actually thought it was true till today, so congratulations, you are now the poster child of the dumbing down age.

There is a comma after conservative topics not a colon. If you had the same basic grasp at grammar as you do with angry man jump to conclusions partisan politics, you might understand just how stupid your post actually is.

So here is is a grammar lesson for you at about your skill level, grade 5. A comma is used to separate elements in a series. This means that: ultra conservative topics, homophobia, misogyny and racism are actually 4 separate topics.

Where as a colon is used when you have two independent clauses where the second clause is used to define the parameters of the first. So, ultra conservative topics: homophobia, misogyny and racism. Says homophobia, misogyny and racism are conservative topics.

So there you have it my friend, my post had nothing to do with my politics, sadly this is not something we can say for your own post, which is chock full of your own brand of I do not read, i jump to conclusions and rant about it on the internet brand of partisan stupid.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
You're politics are obvious, you prove it in this post as you did in the previous one but hey, you wrote a lot and everything and dammit, it was a comma, not a colon... wow I feel so schooled and you explain it so completely and all, gosh thank you I feel so much smarter now and I owe it all you to, thank you so much.

:)
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
You're politics are obvious

Really? You get that I am Libertarian? Not the party, but libertarianism, the ethical political philosophy? You must be very insightful.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K4VD on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
There has always been groups that stretch the limits of polite conversation. That's what they make VFOs for. I find there are far more good ragchews going on in the various modes then the few ugly conversations.

It seems to me, and old curmudgeon, that lots of people in the past 8+ years have been concentrating on the bad and the spectacular. I choose to concentrate on a good chat with a new friend who shares a hobby regardless of all the other differences me may have.

73,
Kev K4VD
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
VK4FFAB, what I get is you say a lot... you explain a lot and people get it, but not the way you may think they should. Libertarian is not how you come off, not even a little.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Libertarian is not how you come off, not even a little.

perhaps it more your own inherent bias that everything has to be red or blue leading you to jump to conclusions more so than anything i actually say.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
QUOTE - "VK4FFAB Libertarian is not how you come off, not even a little."

I wasn't trying to, not even a little.

QUOTE - "perhaps it more your own inherent bias that everything has to be red or blue leading you to jump to conclusions more so than anything i actually say."

You're the one jumping to conclusions, maybe you need to read before responding? This way you don't come off so, idiotic and assume, red or blue.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on February 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Oh come on, now you are just trolling with alternative fasts because my explanations do not fit in with your world view.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 24, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Yet another liberal term, alternate facts, listen you grouped together liberals talking point terms after Ultra Conservative, I don't give a good frig how you try to explain it, I know what you meant as did you, then you went on to call me stupid.

I'm not going to continue this nonsense because it serves no purpose at this point. You made your points and I have made mine, move along now or are one of those must have the last word types, if so have at.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on February 24, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
You guys sound like a bunch of teenage girls having a Hissy Fit. What a bunch of clowns.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 24, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Yet here you are contributing to it, welcome to the fray girl.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 24, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Now that was trolling. ;)
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on February 24, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I don't see why people are are shocked. This is is that natural outcome of "No-code". People are not spending time with Elmers and this is the expected outcome.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on February 24, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
SWMAN.

Get a license,,,,,,

KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 24, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
QUOTE "KC3NG - I don't see why people are are shocked. This is is that natural outcome of "No-code". People are not spending time with Elmers and this is the expected outcome."

What was the excuse for people acting like LIDS prior to 2007 KC3NG? Seems people need something to blame instead of just blaming the people who have acted like LIDS since the invention of communication radio.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on February 24, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
KC3NG, I have a license, I just don't want people like you knowing who I am.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by PITSWL on February 24, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"[T]imes have indeed changed, but that is no EXCUSE to justify boorish, obscene, racist, sexist and very obscene language on any band or mode. Unfortunately, there is no cure for stupid. These louts should ask themselves if they would use such language and comments in front of their parents, children, and grandchildren or in face to face conversations with others."

I once asked an operator known for his frequent use of indecent language who was arguing desperately against the plain language of a decision by the FCC that pretty definitively stated what was indecent whether or not he would use that same language in a different broadcast medium: television.

He, tellingly, declined to answer.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 24, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
SWMAN,

Been there, had the argument, decided to use the callsign but that was on a different forum.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on February 25, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Some hams are allergic to facts, but here it comes... Trigger alert!

The opinions of amateurs, the FCC, and the ARRL, notwithstanding, the [u]only[/u] thing that really matters is the opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court, as seen in Pacifica (1978), and much later, in FCC v Fox (2012) where two current Supreme Court Justices concurred that Pacifica was wrong.

You know what they say about opinions: some are informed; some are uninformed; and some just don't matter!

George Carlin's 'filthy words' monologue:

On March 16, 1977, the D.C. Circuit Court vacated and reversed the FCC's memorandum opinion finding Carlin's words indecent. The FCCs order did not result in an NAL; it merely clarified the FCCs position on speech used in broadcasts likely to be heard by children.

The D.C. Court, held that “Despite the Commission’s professed intentions, the direct effect of its Order is to inhibit the free and robust exchange of ideas on a wide range of issues and subjects by means of radio and television communications.”

Judge Tamm wrote the opinion for the D.C. Circuit Court, which determined that the FCC’s regime to be unconstitutionally vague and overbroad and expressed its concern that the FCC’s proposed definition of indecent speech would result in unconstitutional censorship.

Judge Tamm specifically rejected the FCC’s argument that that the timing of the broadcast was important in determining whether language was indecent and wrote, “In fact the Order is censorship, regardless of what the Commission chooses to call it.”

The Court highlighted that ratings that showed over one million children were watching television until 1:00 a.m.. Instead, the court agreed with Pacifica argument that the “Commission’s action proscribes the uncensored broadcast of many of the great works of literature including Shakespearian plays and contemporary plays which have won critical acclaim, the works of renowned classical and contemporary poets and writers, and passages from the Bible.”


George Carlins filthy words reach the Supreme Court:


The Commission characterized the language used in the Carlin monologue as "patently offensive," though not necessarily obscene, and in summary, the Commission stated: "We therefore hold that the language as broadcast was indecent and prohibited by 18 U.S.C. [] 1464." In Pacifica, before the Supreme Court (1978), the FCC order finding George Carlin's 'filthy words' to be indecent was examined and the court agreed that the FCC had the power to regulate indecency, profanity, and obscenity in accordance with 18 U.S.C. 1464.

It should be mentioned that some commentators consider Pacifica (granting FCC authority to regulate speech) was one of the worst Supreme Court decisions on the First Amendment. Thomas G. Krattenmaker and L.A. Powe, Jr., wrote in Televised Violence that the Pacifica opinion was a “decision to war with several key strands of First Amendment thought.”

Even Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg disagreed with Pacifica, as shown when she wrote in her opinion in the 2012 FCC v. Fox case: “In my view, [the Pacifica decision] was wrong when it was issued. Time, technological advances, and the commission’s untenable rulings in the cases now before the court show why Pacifica bears reconsideration.”


In FCC v Hildebrand (1984) the FCC tried and failed to revoke David Hildebrand's amateur license for 'language violations' and after a long process, the FCC review board overruled the commission. Comically, the FCC then overruled their own review board, and decided to 'warn' David Hildebrand in another memorandum and opinion (relying on Pacifica) using an ultimately meaningless administrative 'warning' letter, which quickly found its way to the garbage can, according to Hildebrand.

"The FCC tried without success in 1983 to yank David Hildebrand's license for allegedly using obscene language over the Mt. Wilson association's frequency. 'I challenged them that they couldn't prove what was obscene, and they couldn't,' says Hildebrand, a technical writer who lives in Hollywood.

But 'enforcement isn't as easy as it sounds,' says Dan Emrick, chief of investigations and inspections for the FCC in Washington. 'Illegal transmissions are hard to track down. And the 'community standards' test makes obscenity even harder to prove. It may be perfectly all right in New York City to make dirty references to your lineage,' Emrick says. 'But if you did it in the Bible Belt, you'd be run out of town on a rail. What goes in Southern California might not be acceptable in North Carolina.' " [LA Times 1991]

Fast forward to Supreme Court 2012:

In FCC v Fox et al (2012) the court shot down multimillion dollar fines proposed by the FCC, stating that the FCCs rules were vague, that they failed to warn station owners which words were prohibited, and what might happen if the words were uttered, and the court suggested that the FCC ought to bring their regulations into the 21st century and into compliance with the principles embodied by the First Amendment...

"Held: Because the Commission failed to give Fox or ABC fair notice prior to the broadcasts in question that fleeting expletives and momentary nudity could be found actionably indecent, the Commission's standards as applied to these broadcasts were vague."

"This opinion leaves the Commission free to modify its current indecency policy in light of its determination of the public interest and applicable legal requirements.

And it leaves the courts free to review the current policy or any modified policy in light of its content and application." Justice Ginsburg, with Justice Thomas concurring, said Pacifica was wrong when issued and that time has changed ideas about language in this country, and therefore, Pacifica should be reconsidered.


Since 2012, the FCC has [u]never[/u] coherently reviewed or restructured FCC policy on indecency, profanity, or obscenity.

JUSTICE GINSBURG, concurring in the 2012 Fox judgment:

"In my view, the Court's decision in FCC v. Pacifica Foundation, 438 U. S. 726 (1978), was wrong when it issued. Time, technological advances, and the Commission's untenable rulings in the cases now before the Court show why Pacifica bears reconsideration." Cf. FCC v. Fox Television Stations, Inc., 556 U. S. 502, 532-535 (2009) (THOMAS, J., concurring).

Opinions vary, but physicians and scientists agree:


"Fluent use of profanity can be a sign of an articulate nature and a deep intelligence, say researchers from two separate studies. As it turns out, people who swear actually have a greater vocabulary than those who keep things clean.

This new data is also bolstered by a recent study from author Jeff Wilser, who believed that swear words tap into a deeper part of the brain. [S]wearing not only proves greater intelligence but can also be “a morale booster” in the work place. The lesson here? Don’t be afraid to curse. It may not impress everyone, but the habit may reveal greater intelligence, abilities, and survival skills than anyone would have ever imagined.

The researchers concluded that those who swore the most profusely also articulated themselves well in a number of other areas."

Since 2012, most knowledgeable people realize that all modern broadcast studios employ a delay machine, so that a producer can fill in the occasional F bomb (which happens all the time) with filler material, with just a touch of one button.


People who swear are just smarter and more adaptive, all the way around:

http://uproxx.com/life/people-swear-articuate-intelligent/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S038800011400151X

Dr. Richard Stephens, NeuroReport (Aug. 5, 2009)

Lisa Gualtieri, PhD, Adjunct Clinical Professor, Tufts University School of Medicine:

http://www.utne.com/science-and-technology/swearing-is-good-for-you

https://sites.tufts.edu/prep/tag/richard-stephens/

Broadcast obscenity delay machine:

http://www.lunchboxaudio.com/eventide-bd960-broadcast-obscenity-delay/

FCC v. Hildebrand:

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-10-02/news/vw-2882_1_ham-radio

Pacifica [438 U.S. 726, 730] Foundation and FCC v Fox et al

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/438/726.html

FCC v Fox et al:

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/10-1293.html

http://cbldf.org/about-us/case-files/obscenity-case-files/obscenity-case-files-fcc-v-pacifica-foundation-george-carlins-seven-dirty-words/

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W4AMP on February 25, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
PITSWL defends VE7KFM on every ham forum there is. And then has the gall to pontificate about profanity on air.

Your cowardice and hypocrisy know no bounds.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 25, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
N1FM,

Were you bored or something, good grief.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KD5KKH on February 25, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Lol I think you hit the head on this one myself.What is really needed for most people today (an maybe hams like mentioned) is cognitive behavior therepy.Lets get Dr Phil licensed!
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on February 26, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
@KC9NRN: LOL -- Yes Erik, and trying to explain why the FCC won't (or can't) do anything for hams who are "shocked by what they hear on HF" is one of the most boring things you can do.

@W4AMP: Agreed James; that 'handle' was banned from QRZ after 21 posts back in 2015, and had dozens of libelous comments removed from Reddit recently due to posts in support of an obviously mentally-ill Canadian who calls on al Qaida to kill Americans. Sad!
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 26, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Tom, hey whatever, you have all the time in the world for it so have a party.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 26, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
The "obviously mentally-ill Canadian" is having a party on 7200 right now along with the usual jammers.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KB6QXM on February 26, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
What do you expect?

Lower the license standards in both theory and the code requirement. Eliminate the requirement to have to take the test@ an FCC office. Make the theory tests multiple test and publish the test question pool. What do you expect?

With society world-wide having less respect, this is a reflection of society.

Decades ago if you were a ham radio operator people respected you as you actually accomplished something when you passed your amateur radio license. Now. Not so much.

With the fowl language, the lack of enforcement from the FCC, the HOAs and CC&Rs to put up an antenna or a tower, the push for contests and DX-paper chasing, the lack of a good intellectual rag chew and the cost of the hobby one has to wonder if the hobby is worth the time and the frustration.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 26, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Quote KB6QXM "What do you expect? Lower the license standards in both theory and the code requirement. Eliminate the requirement to have to take the test@ an FCC office. Make the theory tests multiple test and publish the test question pool. What do you expect?
"

This is utterly ridiculous, bad operators have been on the air since the invention of Amateur radio. Saying otherwise ignores the fact many of those involved on 14.275, 14.313, 7.200 name the frequency have had their license far longer than 2007 or when other requirements were lowered.

There is no excuse for what goes on and blaming it on standards or the lack there of is being obtuse or you simply can't believe people in previous generations (or perhaps yours) did the same thing as the current LIDS, they did and still do.

You could make it so only a few could pass and that would not stop the problem, period.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on February 26, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"With the fowl language, the lack of enforcement from the FCC, the HOAs and CC&Rs to put up an antenna or a tower, the push for contests and DX-paper chasing, the lack of a good intellectual rag chew and the cost of the hobby one has to wonder if the hobby is worth the time and the frustration. "

As the saying goes, familiarity breeds contempt. Its not the examination process that is the issue in all this, its the fact that radio is now different to what it was in the 30's and 40's etc, where people actually had to work together to gather components to build a station and if you were an idiot no one liked, it was much harder.

I do a lot of radio, but i hardly ever rag chew. For me there is seriously no point to it. I am in my 40's and do not plan on being dead anytime soon, so I also do not need to check into the old mens nets to let anyone know i am not dead. So my spare time is spent doing what the point of ham radio used to be, SELF EDUCATION. I spend much more time with my books, solder iron and components than I ever do rag chewing. I build stuff rather than talk shit.

Also i get out of the house on the weekends and do WWFF, SOTA and IOTA kinds of things as an activator, ur 5nn tu 73 qrz. And yes, I also CW. Now back to my opening statement, the point is, if people actually did all the other aspects of radio, they would have less time for talking shit with each other and being idiots.

And when you take a listen, its always the same bat guys on the same bat channel at the same bat time talking crap like a pack or morons. And thankfully in VK we have very few of them and anyone who is smart knows how to avoid them and their mental retardation.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
VK4FFAB,

Part of the problem is everybody believes their interpretation of the hobby is the correct one. I once while standing in line at an Amateur Radio store was told if you don't install PL259's yourself what are you doing in Ham radio?!? You're a tech? I bet you did it after CW was removed.

My response to the much older gentleman was I can install them just fine, yes I took the test in 2008, with no prior knowledge of when this requirement was removed, if it was required I would have performed that part of the test as well.

However I work 70hrs a week, have family and believe my primary responsibility is to spend time with my family first so if this saves me time for that I gladly buy the cable pre-made.

He went on to basically tell me how no code techs are the ruination of the hobby, the test is too easy yada yada yada. I got out of line because if I stood there any longer I was going to say something to the guy I would regret and he wasn't worth the trouble, people like that aren't worth the trouble, they don't care what anybody thinks.

The hobby is what each person makes of it, part of, no, scratch that, the major issue with this hobby are the guys that believe their take on it has to be everybody elses take on it and they'll blast that out there.

I've been in a lot of hobbies, muscle cars, computers, RV's etc etc etc... no other hobby has the rigid belief system that MY WAY is the right way as much as this one.

The Amateur Clubs aren't that way, they are always looking to help people which is fantastic and I bet you try to as well, right? You build stuff, great, what the frig does that matter to the guy who doesn't? Does it make you a better Ham than he is? You get out on weekends, ok, great, some people can't get into all aspects of this hobby, cut them some slack.

For some guys/gals the hobby is about self education, rag chewing, building gear or getting out or all of the above and a host of other things, who cares in which order because it's not the same for everybody, thank God.

I agree about it always being the same bat guys on the same bat channels and a good many of them have had their license for decades.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by PITSWL on February 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Tom, hey whatever, you have all the time in the world for it so have a party."

Or he could just forget his cut/paste [i.e., spam] posturing and cut loose on J.D. Hayworth with twenty or so minutes of obscenities if he imagines the FCC has no leg to stand on as far as it concerns the use of what was clearly defined as, "indecent" in the Hildebrand decision.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on February 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Part of the problem is everybody believes their interpretation of the hobby is the correct one."

I am not saying that my way is the only way i am no one size fits all zealot, but rather that people more generally should invest time in aspects of the hobby other than flapping their gums. Because when you invest time into yourself and the hobby more broadly it becomes rather hard to be apathetic, idle or bored with the hobby.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on February 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"ok, great, some people can't get into all aspects of this hobby, cut them some slack."

Its not all about you princess. There was no judgement or accusation in my post other than to point out that if the trouble makers actually did stuff, they might have much less time to make trouble and that not being invested in the hobby is more of a cause than what exam they sat.


"The Amateur Clubs aren't that way, they are always looking to help people which is fantastic and I bet you try to as well, right??

Sadly, where I am the radio clubs are really just clubs. They do very little radio, but they get together and have club meetings every week and it serves a purpose for those people and keeps them happy. Its just not something i find appealing.

"You build stuff, great, what the frig does that matter to the guy who doesn't?"

In the context of the point i was making, it was to illustrate that there are things to do in the hobby other than rag chew on the same frequency every day even when you have nothing to say.

"Does it make you a better Ham than he is?"

There are plenty who do nothing and whine a lot. If doing stuff and contributing back into the hobby makes me a better person, I will take it. But, what others think of me hardly matters at all to me.

Anyway, the point of my post was not to make you get all insecure and feel inferior and in fact the post was not in reply to you at all. It was to point out that if people did stuff, the bands be a better place.

My entire radio philosophy is JUST DO IT. It does not matter what you do, just do something other than gum flapping, bitching moaning and whining. We get it, the world sucks, people suck and a lot of hams suck, but the only way for it not to suck so much is for everyone else to do something productive.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by PITSWL on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"We get it, the world sucks, people suck and a lot of hams suck..."

You're very glass-half-empty.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I like the VK's outlook. Unlike Pisswill, he has an actual identity and an interesting web page, and he doesn't sashay about the Internet posing as the chief apologist for a wacko in western Canaduh who calls on al Qaeda to kill Americans.

Nice page Rob!

http://vk4ffab.info/robs-home-page/
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N6AFV on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Hams were acting like this long before Trump's candidacy. I had always thought that those of my (boomer) generation (and older) had some sense of common decency, but I am saddened by some of the attitudes and language used on the air by the "old guys", never mind the younger ones. Solution to the problem? I don't know for certain, but it's not a "flip the switch" kind of thing - it would require a long-term change in our society, where free speech is seen as a means to and end, and not and end in itself. Society certainly changes, and many changes are for the better, but having respect for the sensibilities of others, and not having an attitude of, "I CAN offend, therefore I WILL!" would go a long way to cleaning up a variety of public areas.
In general, it seems that our society has relegated respect and consideration for others to the shelf. "Me-ism" has become the de facto law of the land. Of course there are exceptions - and we make much of them precisely because they ARE exceptions, rather then the norm. The best we can do as individuals is behave in way that we would like to see others behave, and treat others with the respect we would like to receive.
73!
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by PITSWL on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
@N1FM: Your obsession with obtaining peoples' true identities when they have absolutely no desire nor requirement to share them with you is, in a word, creepy.

Beyond that, you desperately need some new material.



 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"VK4FFAB - Its not all about you princess."

What are you, 10? Grow up, I never said anything was about me, you however blather on about you.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"N6AFV - Hams were acting like this long before Trump's candidacy. I had always thought that those of my (boomer) generation (and older) had some sense of common decency, but I am saddened by some of the attitudes and language used on the air by the "old guys", never mind the younger ones. Solution to the problem? I don't know for certain, but it's not a "flip the switch" kind of thing - it would require a long-term change in our society, where free speech is seen as a means to and end, and not and end in itself. Society certainly changes, and many changes are for the better, but having respect for the sensibilities of others, and not having an attitude of, "I CAN offend, therefore I WILL!" would go a long way to cleaning up a variety of public areas.
In general, it seems that our society has relegated respect and consideration for others to the shelf. "Me-ism" has become the de facto law of the land. Of course there are exceptions - and we make much of them precisely because they ARE exceptions, rather then the norm. The best we can do as individuals is behave in way that we would like to see others behave, and treat others with the respect we would like to receive.
73!"

VERY well said!

73!
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
VK4FFAB - "My entire radio philosophy is JUST DO IT. It does not matter what you do, just do something other than gum flapping, bitching moaning and whining. We get it, the world sucks, people suck and a lot of hams suck, but the only way for it not to suck so much is for everyone else to do something productive."

We get it, it's all about what YOU would do. If people want to whine, that's their right, God knows you've doing a bit of belly aching here as well, turn the big knob or don't respond to the post, people who love to tell others how to do things actually do make it about themselves.

Maybe everyone should do what they want to do, wouldn't it be awesome if for once people could take their own advice.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Pisswill, I don't care about your identity. As far as I'm concerned, you're a nonentity here and on QRZ and on Reddit, and probably wherever you carry on. You can change your identity twice a day for all I care. I just enjoy pointing out your hypocrisy in decrying 'language' while supporting a moron in Canada who calls on al Qaeda to kill Americans while graphically obsessing about m2m sex at every opportunity.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by PITSWL on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
@N1FM: You say you don't care about my identity, yet in nearly every thread I've ever posted in on eHam you've made an issue of my not choosing to reveal my identity.

You say, "as far as I'm concerned...", well my responses here weren't directed at you, so you really weren't concerned at all, and yet you had to chime in and take a shot, as you typically do. Of course it had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

You say you want to talk about hypocrisy while being a master of it; at best you're as vulgar as the object of your irrational obsession VE7KFM, if not much worse. Karol, for all he can be a Picasso of colorful language, at least comes down to Earth, generally, after a few minutes, particularly when he's not being QRMed, verbally abused and defamed by, among others, you. I've heard you cut loose with streams of obscenities lasting over an hour, the most vile of words, thrown out there seemingly with no other purpose than to be as offensive as possible.

And you really have no leg to stand on where it comes to my comments; I've never endorsed VE7KFM's use of foul language. And I laugh at your manufactured outrage over his roadside bombs comment that was obviously hyperbolic and meant to trigger just that manufactured outrage you repeat in so many of your comments. Sure, it's offensive to listen to someone make light of terrorism, even if it's obvious hyperbole. But that comment, offensive as it was, was hardly the most offensive thing I've ever heard on the radio.

In point of fact, the most offensive thing I ever heard on the radio came from you.

And as for talk of homosexual activity, remind me who it was who was famously captured on tape saying, in response to a request for his Email address, "Go ahead and send me something so I can slap my p---- off your face".
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Pisswill - you have no idea how little I care what an anonymous troll has to say on the few sites where he/she/it has yet to be banned. I didn't even read your post; I just saw you referenced me, again, as usual, so I wrote this. That's how little I care what you have to say. Have a nice day.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I was first licensed in the early 60s and I've little profanity, but if there's something to at fault it's "No Code".

Starting hams dont have the exposure to Elmers and thusly are not acculturated the way we were.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG -I was first licensed in the early 60s and I've little profanity, but if there's something to at fault it's "No Code".

Starting hams dont have the exposure to Elmers and thusly are not acculturated the way we were."

Amazing how bad it's become since 2007, no exposure to Elmer's, seriously? What was the excuse of poor behavior prior to the loss of Elmer's and code from the exam?

Was Amateur behavior prior to 2007 stellar, beyond reproach or more likely the bad behavior goes back to the day after more than 2 guys started talking over the airwaves.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG -I was first licensed in the early 60s and I've little profanity, but if there's something to at fault it's "No Code".

Starting hams dont have the exposure to Elmers and thusly are not acculturated the way we were."

'Amazing how bad it's become since 2007, no exposure to Elmer's, seriously? What was the excuse of poor behavior prior to the loss of Elmer's and code from the exam?

Was Amateur behavior prior to 2007 stellar, beyond reproach or more likely the bad behavior goes back to the day after more than 2 guys started talking over the airwaves."

There wasn't much "poor behavior" or actually ill legal behavior before 'no code". There was some but as a culture hams were pretty legalistic. Of course the FCC is no longer being funded like it was.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG - There wasn't much "poor behavior" or actually ill legal behavior before 'no code". There was some but as a culture hams were pretty legalistic. Of course the FCC is no longer being funded like it was.

Renee KC3NG"

So you think Amateur Radio was much much cleaner and yet history proves this isn't true. The loon from Canada dates back a few decades of on air idiocy.

Many of the bad apples currently making 7.200 sound like a cesspool are long time extra class Hams that had to know CW and you keep pointing to "No Code" Hams as the problem, as if somehow this changed how people behave because they didn't have to study CW.

I say once again, bad people inhabit all hobbies. Idiots, jerks and bad Amateurs have been on the air for decades dating back to the 20's because bad people make bad Amateurs, not the requirements for a test.

But hey, I get it, some people need something other than people to blame, you blame a no longer required CW test, how awesome it would be if true because all we would have to do is bring that requirement back right? Problem solved.... not.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I don't think it...I know it. The attitudes of ALL people who spent time with ELMERs changed through acculturation AND learning the code. Ham radio was close to a religion or don't you remember that? After going through that I know that my attitudes toward ham radio was reinforced just by going through the process,

My Elmer, Jack k4UOT instilled much in me and it all revolved around the code, So I changed..... AND I can say specifically HOW. I know I acquired a deep respect for the FCC, it's laws and the hobby. It became a way of life rapidly.
Renee KC3ng
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by PITSWL on March 1, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"So you think Amateur Radio was much much cleaner and yet history proves this isn't true. The loon from Canada dates back a few decades of on air idiocy."

@KC9NRN: I think you have VE7KFM confused with any number of his detractors, some of whom were problem operators involved in nonsense with K1MAN and KV4FZ going back to the mid-80s (a conflict that had been going on since the early 70s), and, speaking of Herbie, were even 14.313 troublemakers during that generation of buffoonery in the, "ham war zone" as it was referred to in the June 1992 edition of Monitoring Times.

You read that right, June of 1992.

VE7KFM wasn't even active on the air at that time.

And that's saying nothing of the fact that said, "ham war zone" had been such dating back to the early 70s.

VE7KFM had no involvement with that conflict, though some other present-day 14.313 clowns did.

You seem to have a lot of interest in this topic going back quite a ways if the dates on some of your comments in response to it are any indication. Ever checked out the UseNet, now Google Groups, archives? How about the Wayback Machine? Check out some of the call-signs (and former call-signs) of people associated with 313/275 not named Karol Madera. You'll be surprised who really has "decades" of amateur radio troublemaking to their credit.

In fact, you'd be hard-pressed to find a derogatory mention of VE7KFM until late 2004/early 2005, after he'd been involved in several years of conflict on 14.273 with racist operators maliciously interfering with and threatening Polish-speaking amateurs on that frequency (as well as other non-English speaking hams throughout that portion of the band), and had a brief conflict with K1MAN, who imagined the Polish-speakers were too close to "his" frequency on 14.275 - which was apparently resolved in too polite a fashion for K1MAN's detractors who decided from that point on that VE7KFM needed, "the K1MAN treatment" because the two had the audacity to solve their issues amicably.

None of the above is offered as an endorsement of needless vulgarity/comments made in poor taste regardless of which mouth they emanate from, but you might consider that a lot of what you hear/read from the finger-pointers who imagine that their own poor behavior is somehow justified because, "He did it (first)!" -- an immature way of attempting to justify one's actions that well-adjusted people tend to outgrow sometime in Junior High -- is, if not outright lies, very highly-spun "truth", or what I'm calling, VERY fake amateur radio news.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 1, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG on February 28, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I don't think it...I know it. The attitudes of ALL people who spent time with ELMERs changed through acculturation AND learning the code. Ham radio was close to a religion or don't you remember that? After going through that I know that my attitudes toward ham radio was reinforced just by going through the process,

My Elmer, Jack k4UOT instilled much in me and it all revolved around the code, So I changed..... AND I can say specifically HOW. I know I acquired a deep respect for the FCC, it's laws and the hobby. It became a way of life rapidly.
Renee KC3ng"


I think that's awesome, for you, it does not however prove that there weren't plenty of bad Amateurs on the air but I'm glad you were one of the good ones.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 1, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
PITSWL,

My only interest in the past as it pertains to this thread is showing KC3NG that bad Amateurs were on the air long before testing was ended at the FCC offices and the removal of CW from the exam.

He states all was well prior to no code techs and all people who worked with an Elmer were above reproach which frankly is impossible considering you know, humans.

I'll drop it now, the horse has been beyond beaten to oblivion.

Regarding Karol, bad example as he is from Canada and not under the FCC for his license. I should have used another.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 1, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
PITSWL,

I found the archive for the "ham war zone" from 1992, interesting reading. I'm sure there have been Ham wars going back long before then as well.

I remember CB from the late 60's on but at least you could understand them. I hear people on CB channels now and you can barely understand them, they repeat "break break break" non-stop and ramble on in what is supposed to be English but the words are all crunched together.

I actually recorded a few of them to try and figure out what they were saying. The only word I could figure out was "break".
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 1, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
If there's anything you've shown me, it's that you are an a**hole.

I stand by what I sahd.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 1, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I wear your insult proudly since you are too obtuse to budge an inch on the obvious. But hey, all Ham's were awesome prior to 2007, natch.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 1, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
We had illegal operators when there was a code requirement but not in the proportion that there are today. In my non-trivial experience when the FCC was enforcing there were not the illegalities that exist today, so having an FCC unseen presence did make a difference.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by PITSWL on March 1, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"But hey, all Ham's were awesome prior to 2007, natch."

@KC9NRN: Some are easily triggered.

As you and I have both pointed out here, many of the worst offenders are not post-2007 "no coders", but guys who have been licensed for 40+ years.

Some -- by far not all, but a vociferous, not to mention obnoxious minority -- seemingly imagine that their "struggle" to earn their license is on par with stories you've undoubtedly heard ascribed to old fuddy-duddies who walked miles to school uphill both ways in blizzards wearing paper bags on their feet.

As the decades have worn on amateur radio has, sadly, declined as an educational and scientific endeavor, and basically become -- in large part thanks to their behavior -- a slightly higher form of CB radio, but they've invested such a great amount of money in it that they now imagine they have an inalienable right to be heard over and above anyone and everyone whose views aren't in lock-step with their own and they've invented all sorts of exceptions to Part 97 rules such that they can just key down and drown out anyone they dislike.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 1, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
PITSWL,

I'm an ahole for disagreeing, such is life. People who fault Hams who were licensed after the FCC stopped conducting tests and then even more so after CW was removed from the tests are blaming the Amateur for something that was out of their control, as if this new Ham was at fault for these new rules.

I was brought up by my parents to behave properly, treat others with respect and that carries over on the airwaves. I didn't need an Elmer to teach me how to behave, I didn't need the FCC or CW to become a better Amateur, I choose to be a good one or a bad one, as does every single other Ham out there.

The difference between me and KC3NG is he attributes something other than himself for being a good Amateur when you'd think it would be obvious that it is he that chooses to be one or not, period.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on March 1, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"As the decades have worn on amateur radio has, sadly, declined as an educational and scientific endeavor, ,"

Affordability and accessibility are likely the main contributors towards this assuming this is a real problem at all. When you can run down the shop and buy a shack in the box for not a lot of money, why invest the time and effort in actually learning and gaining the understanding of how to construct a station from a pile of parts.

And I am not even sure that this is a real problem. It is more than likely to be observational bias. If all you base this on is who you regularly hear rag chewing then sure it might look like things are getting bad. But the rag chewers are not all of amateur radio.

None of my friends sat written exams or code tests and are predominately under 40 years, most of them are using or are learning CW, a fair portion of their stations are home brew, run QRP, are interested in weak signal like WSPR, contest, do portable activities, collect numbers and a myriad of other things. We just do not rag chew.

Amateur radio is certainly much bigger than those your hear rag chewing, there is a large club near me you would also never hear talking on HF, they are all into tv and microwaves another area where you need to invest in yourself to assemble a station.

I think if you accounted for all those people, you might find standards have improved since the code tests were removed. People now homebrew and cw not because you have to, but because they want to and because they greatly value these aspects of the hobby and so tend towards obsessing about the rules and operating practice.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N4ECM on March 1, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Amen brother!
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by PITSWL on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
@VK4FFAB: You say, "assuming this is a real problem at all" in response to my comment about amateur radio declining as an educational and scientific endeavor.

I was speaking to the fact that 30-40 years ago, at a time when consumer electronics we take for granted today such as PCs, mobile telephones, etc. started to see rapid advancement, the people driving that rapid advancement were people whose background included amateur radio as a starting point that formed the basis of their expertise and that the hobby was a useful tool in teaching even people who weren't electrical engineers how electronic device operated and how to manipulate them beyond the its proverbial face-plate.

As a kid growing up in the 80s I remember an Elementary School science teacher actually making a contact as way of illustrating how radio waves worked.

You say, "It is more than likely to be observational bias."

In the context of my larger point, which was in reference to troublesome operators who, if you spend any amount of time listening to the problem frequencies that are at the heart of the topic of this article, you'll find are people who, generally, were in the hobby in the time-frame I'm referring to, if not earlier, and who are, generally, people who were subject to a code requirement long before the 2007 rule change. And, if you know your history, you'd also know that many of those same operators -- such as the one(s) offering off-topic, nonsensical comments above -- were engaged in that behavior long before the 2007 rule change, and long before other operators they like to point fingers at as a justification for their own buffoonery were even active on the air.

You say, "If all you base this on is who you regularly hear rag chewing..."

It's not.

...and that, "...then sure it might look like things are getting bad. But the rag chewers are not all of amateur radio."

Bad, for our purposes, is relative. You're using the term rag-chewers somewhat liberally.

My comments don't refer to rag-chewers generally, but the small, vociferous minority of rag-chewers responsible for the problems the article mentions.

You say, "None of my friends sat written exams or code tests and are predominately under 40 years, most of them are using or are learning CW, a fair portion of their stations are home brew, run QRP, are interested in weak signal like WSPR, contest, do portable activities, collect numbers and a myriad of other things. We just do not rag chew."

Then you, sir, and these friends you mention, are ideal operators, and kudos to you for not being part of the problem.

You say, "I think if you accounted for all those people, you might find standards have improved since the code tests were removed."

Actually, I wouldn't disagree. I also think that such is the case despite amateur radio being less of a scientific/educational tool than it was in the past.

One doesn't negate the other.

Further I've never been of the opinion, and certainly never asserted in this forum or any other, that post-2007 "no coders" were somehow undesirable or were a bad element in amateur radio.

There are plenty of people out there who work CW (some even at 13 and 20 WPM) and other digital modes, and enjoy it greatly, despite the fact that it wasn't a requirement for their license.

Those sorts of people are far less likely to be the troublesome operators the article was referring to.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Interference, music, 'shocking' language, etc., have been present since the beginning of radio - and well before the FCC was ever a gleam in FDRs eye.

"President Roosevelt pressed for a new commission to replace the ineffective Federal Radio Commission established by the 1927 Radio Act. Congress responded quickly by passing the 1934 Communications Act which created the FCC."

http://newdeal.feri.org/timeline/1934g2.htm

"Eventually, interference being caused by amateur antics, again especially in the northeast, began to get national attention. Regulation of Wireless, from the March 3, 1906 Electrical World, commented on the trouble being caused by local amateurs to the Navy's station at Newport, Rhode Island, and suggested that "the time has now come when in wireless telegraphy it is either regulation or chaos".

A short report in the May 25, 1907 Electrical World, Wireless and Lawless, documented the inability of authorities to legally prevent an amateur from maliciously interfering with the operation of the government station at the Washington, D.C. Navy Yard. In response, a letter from Lee DeForest, Interference With Wireless Messages, published in the June 22nd issue, stated that this incident "brings up strikingly the necessity for early legal protection of legitimate workers from such vandals", declaring that "the ubiquitous amateur with his high-school Ruhmkorf coil, the operator of the 'brute force and ignorance' wireless school, must be eliminated", with the use of crude spark-transmitters replaced by more refined continuous-wave transmitters."

http://earlyradiohistory.us/sec012.htm#part040

As far as obscenity goes, the average American may occasionally let loose with an F-bomb (possible profanity) which is nothing new in the history of American linguistics (Cher, Paris Hilton, Nicole Ritchie, Bono) but for sheer obscenity, no one beats Karol Madera, VE7KFM for crude, disgusting, patently offensive language and slander.

Some anonymous Internet trolls, like Pisswill, travel from forum to forum in defense of this putrid cretin, but I've never heard an American amateur that could compare with the infamous, almost daily, obscene and insane rants, that have occurred since about 2002 on 20 meters, coming out of Saanich, British Columbia, from VE7KFM.


https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/obscene-indecent-and-profane-broadcasts

Obscene content does not have protection by the First Amendment. For content to be ruled obscene, it must meet a three-pronged test established by the Supreme Court in the Pacifica case: It must appeal to an average person's prurient interest; depict or describe sexual conduct in a "patently offensive" way; and, taken as a whole, lack serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.

Indecent content portrays sexual or excretory organs or activities in a way that does not meet the three-prong test for obscenity.

Profane content includes "grossly offensive" language that is considered a public nuisance.

The Pacifica case in the Supreme Court allows the FCC to regulate speech. Justice Ginberg (with Justice Thomas concurring) said in 2012, that Pacifica was wrong when issued, and should be revisited.

“In my view,” Justice Ginsburg wrote, the Pacifica decision “was wrong when it issued. Time, technological advances, and the commission’s untenable rulings in the cases now before the court show why Pacifica bears reconsideration.”

In recent remarks before the American Constitution Society last week (June, 2012), Justice Ginsburg discussed the case, and she suggested wryly that there were gaps in the justices’ knowledge of popular culture.

“The Paris Hiltons of this world, my law clerks told me, eagerly await this decision,” she said of the case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/business/media/justices-reject-indecency-fines-on-narrow-grounds.html

As we all know, idiots are easily ignored, on the radio and on the Internet, and our 'troubled' frequencies can also be avoided, as VK4FFAB suggests. He's right. Erik KC9NRN is also right. The other posters who stated that 'shocking language' has been around forever, and can *usually* be avoided, are all correct. Riley Hollingsworth and Laura Smith have advised "spinning the big knob" because they realize the FCC can't police "shocking" language, or anything else.

Enjoy the radio, lighten up, don't listen to offensive language. Turn the knob or make an FCC or Industry Canada complaint - but don't expect anything to change. Idiots on the air (and on the Internet) like "shocking language" are here to stay!

de FM
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
PITSWL,

Very well stated.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
N1FM,


I agree wholeheartedly that there have been issues since more than one person has had access to the airwaves, nice examples of it, thank you.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
You're welcome OM. I do take issue with some who believe ham radio is no longer relevant where experimentation is concerned. We don't 'hear' the people experimenting unless we seek them out, but there are people building, doing propagation experiments, meteor scatter, all kinds of experiments in the GHz range, DQPSK, 8DPSK, GFSK for Bluetooth and WiFi, the Internet of Things, Arduino, Raspberry Pi, etc., etc. If we focus on idiots and trolls, wasting our time being 'shocked' then we miss the good stuff, and I think that's what VK4FFAB was getting at too.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by PITSWL on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"As far as obscenity goes, the average American may occasionally let loose with an F-bomb..."

@N1FM: "Occasionally"?

Tell me, in what dictionary is, "occasionally" defined as: six times in just over two minutes, and numerous times over the course of less than twenty (as in your infamous, "MFer" tirade from 20 meters), three times in less than ten seconds on 80 meters (as detailed in the "Bad Ham" video on Youtube) and eight times (not to mention another particularly vulgar operator's five) in less than three minutes, which were the first of an hour+ long tirade of yours which included DOZENS of F-bombs -- none of which were as offensive as your comments about the police killing of an innocent motorist -- which, unfortunately, isn't among the many other recordings of you on YouTube, UStream, Soundcloud, etc?

One only needs to browse through said video/audio hosting websites where there are plenty of offerings from 20, 40 and 80 critical of not just you but a number of FCC-licensed operators that put VE7KFM to shame as far as profanity.
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by N1FM on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Pisswill, when you grow a pair and stand behind your boolshite observations with a real name and address, then I'll consider answering your stupid questions. Maybe; just maybe. 'Til then, why not post this B.S. at QRZ or... oh, that's right you were banned for trolling, after only 21 posts! Bwhahahahahahaha... Pfffffft!
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by PITSWL on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
@N1FM: It was a rhetorical question.

I already know that you have no legs to stand on with your immature finger-pointing and hypocritical assertions about others, and what's more important not only do you know the same, but other readers will see your silly justifications and recognize yours as the responses of a person who has nothing more in his intellectual arsenal than ad hominem attacks.
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by KC3NG on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"You're welcome OM. I do take issue with some who believe ham radio is no longer relevant where experimentation is concerned. We don't 'hear' the people experimenting unless we seek them out, but there are people building, doing propagation experiments, meteor scatter, all kinds of experiments in the GHz range, DQPSK, 8DPSK, GFSK for ..."

And there is no mention of the hf low power experimentation either,

Ham radio has never been as relevant as it is today.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by N1FM on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
@pisswilly - Pfffffft... Go back to your bf in Cana-duh banned boi and tell him you failed to get the thread shut down. Nobody cares about your nonsense, manufactured outrage, gas lighting, or your random forum attacks; me, least of all.


@ Renee -

"And there is no mention of the hf low power experimentation either, Ham radio has never been as relevant as it is today.

Renee KC3NG"


Exactly right Renee. I was thinking of the 630m experimental licenses near 500 KHz, and the 1290m experimentation at 136 KHz.

At the upper end of our spectrum, we have Echo, WSPR, JT65, and JT4, and that's just the work of one group of hams using free software from K1JT.

To me, the low power propagation studies and DMR are increasingly interesting.

Then we have the whole list of modes where you rarely, if ever, encounter morons popping off (unlike the Internet). Just think of all the new modes and new tech we can play with!

D-STAR - which uses AMBE over GMSK with VoIP capabilities;

DMR - uses AMBE codec over a C4FM modulation variant with TDMA;

Brandmeister - uses master servers participating in a worldwide infrastructure network of amateur radio digital voice systems;

FreeDV - uses AFSK modulation via a vocoder USB device;

FDMDV - that uses only 1300 Hz Bandwidth;

System Fusion - uses AMBE CODEC with C4FM modulation.

Then there's NXDN used by Kenwood (Nexedge) and Icom (IDAS).


And lest we forget - Amateur teleprinting over radio (AMTOR);

Hellschreiber - also referred to as either Feld-Hell, or Hell;

Discrete multi-tone modulation modes such as Multi Tone 63 (MT63);

Multiple frequency-shift keying (MFSK) modes such as FSK441, JT6M, JT65, and Olivia MFSK;

Packet radio (AX25);

Automatic Packet Reporting System (APRS); PACTOR; Phase-shift keying:

31 baud binary phase shift keying: PSK31; 31 baud quadrature phase shift keying: QPSK31; 63 baud binary phase shift keying: PSK63; 63 baud quadrature phase shift keying: QPSK63; Spread spectrum, analog or digital;

Not to mention high-speed multimedia radio, networking using 802.11 protocols;

ROS, a new Weak Signal sound card digital mode; etc. etc.

It ain't just AM/FM/SSB/RTTY & CW no more, and there's just no good no reason to dwell on the bottom feeders and their nitwit buddies trying to fan the flames of perdition!

de FM
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by SWMAN on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
This thread is getting to be a bunch of BS.
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by KC3NG on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
What you dont understand SW is that it's you who has attempteD to ruin the thread and couldn't do it.
Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by KC3NG on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I'm monitoring 3760 Khz and would love a call from any non-disruptive participant in the thread.
Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
WOW.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by HA7WX on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
VE7EA is right.
This is the way to do: ignore the crap as they need audience as they are weak and need our feedback to get more self-confidence.
I am pretty sure if everyone did it these would disappear.
Nowadays i am seldom on the radio due to my duties, but the situation is still better in Europe.
Yes there are rude operators, but just spin the dial that's all.
As said by others: ignore ignore ignore, change QRG and try on quieter bands.
Here pretty much 2m is a CB alike band, but again, ignore the crap and they'll live having no feedback.
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by HA7WX on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
SWMAN :
Identify yourself, you pretty much look like... you ARE a CB-er.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by HA7WX on March 2, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
SWMAN:
Everyone knows, you are afraid to reveal your identity.
Says a lot about you, whatever you think or want us to think and convinced yourself how cool it is to stay anonymous.
I was right thinking you are just a scared and miserable individual and a CB-er (sorry for the good CB users they are another category).
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
If eHam required a license to join then that would be one thing but it doesn't and yet people lose their minds and demand the person has no value here unless they give their call.

If eHam thought this they would make it a requirement, they haven't so if you're really that pissed about it, contact eHam and demand that all users use their call sign.

Or, debate the person based on the content of their post instead of taking the easy way out and saying he has no opinion until he uses a call, that's weaksauce.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by PITSWL on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Or, debate the person based on the content of their post instead of taking the easy way out and saying he has no opinion until he uses a call, that's weaksauce."

Now you're just going to have to stop making so much sense.

With regard to some of the comments above regarding experimentation, what they describe is really home-brewing, and that is alive, well and producing all sorts of cool results for people currently in the hobby to enjoy, but it wasn't what I was referring to when I mentioned the decline of amateur radio as a scientific and educational tool.
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Please. This is a amateur radio forum, not FaceBook or SnapChat, or some half-assed CB forum. If you want to be taken seriously, you should use a call sign, or at least a name and a real identity. Otherwise we have no way of knowing whether you're a ham or some mentally ill troll, living in his mom's basement, posting nonsense just to be annoying. I don't mind anonymity if the posts don't cross into anonymous attacks, but when they do, I think the anonymous troll ought to be banned.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
NRN, Very well said and thanks. My mom always told me to stay away from people like HA7WX, that is why I remain anonymous from people like him. He talks bad about CBers, look at his QRZ page and see his collection of CB radios ??? What a hypocrite people like him are. Oh, I have been on eham for 14 years with the same call and yes, I am a ham.
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by PITSWL on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
@N1FM: You have nothing useful to add. Your ad hominem attacks and false allegations are no more valid because you post them with a call-sign. As I said before, you have no legs to stand on with your finger-pointing at other amateurs for allegedly profane or offensive comments. Since you're adding nothing to the larger commentary by continually taking lame and immature shots at me, I'm going to cease responding to you, tell you to have a nice day, a better one tomorrow, good luck in the contest and always 73!
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with N1FM. You don't have anything to add to a Ham forum, never having been on the air. Of course in this thread we're talking about what we've heard.

Of course my basis for comparison is the 60s, twenty years before you were born.

You know, I said "ham radiom had changed me" and it has...do you have any idea what it's like for a young kid in High School to go to a strange city on a Greyhound and pass a code test in the FCC office in the 60's? No you don't. I do, because I was that young girl who went and took the exam and passed it. In those days, one had a year to get their code speed up to 13 WPM. During that year, I also got a Technician License...but no one knew what it was 'cause we were all on 75.

Renee
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Look at Pisswill's gaslighting, ad hominem attacks, and reversal of the fact pattern here. He flits about the net supporting a ham in Canada (VE7KFM) who has repeatedly called on al Qaeda to kill Americans. Pisswill equates an F-Bomb with child luring, slander, anthrax hoaxes, and incitement to murder. What kind of moron does this? An anonymous coward named Pisswill, that's who.

I've appeared in countless court cases as an expert witness; certified in digital forensics. I can't tell you the number of times people thought they were anonymous and ending paying thousands in judgments because they crossed the line from 'fair comment' into libel. I stand behind what I write, and I expect others to do the same. That's impossible when you're dealing with an anonymous coward, but a subpoena can cure that disadvantage pretty quickly.


The courts are beginning to show clear signs of agreement that anonymity without limitation is not wise.

Atlanta-based executive Paul Syiek won a substantial defamation case against a former employee who posted accusations against him on an anonymous bulletin board on TheRipOffReport.com.

The post accused Syiek of several things, including violations of U.S. Department of Labor regulations.

Since the accusations were able to be proven false in court, the poster committed libel against Syiek.

The ruling was for a shade under $200,000. For one post. By one person. On one site.

Luke Lantta of the Bryan Cave law firm said, "There is a constitutional right to anonymity on the Internet, up to a point. When you cross that line from protected speech to that which is truly harmful, there's a good opportunity to hold you accountable for what you posted."

Lantta also warns potential commentors that there's no such thing as true anonymity. He reports uncovering several anonymous poster identities in work with his clients over the years. In Georgia alone, by 2011 there were three cases of anonymous posters brought to court and fined in excess of $100,000.

Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act provides immunity to websites that host user-generated content. The websites can't be held liable for the post, but they can be compelled to reveal information about the poster.

"There are more judgments and cases filed over the last few years than all the previous years.

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career-management/the-case-of-anonymity-in-social-media/
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by KC9NRN on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"N1FM - This is a amateur radio forum, not FaceBook or SnapChat, or some half-assed CB forum."

Indeed and yet, like Facebook and snapchat, (whatever that is), eHam doesn't require a call sign, so being upset it doesn't gets you where?

"If you want to be taken seriously, you should use a call sign, or at least a name and a real identity."

I can't disagree completely but we don't make the rules, if you seriously can't deal with a person who doesn't use a name or call sign why respond at all?

"Otherwise we have no way of knowing whether you're a ham or some mentally ill troll, living in his mom's basement, posting nonsense just to be annoying. I don't mind anonymity if the posts don't cross into anonymous attacks, but when they do, I think the anonymous troll ought to be banned."

Yet you take him seriously enough to keep responding to him which does what exactly. If he is a fraud won't his own words give that away?

People say turn the VFO or page yet those that give this advice rarely take their own advice.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but the rules on eHam are the rules, which he isn't breaking.
 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Erik, don't get me wrong, I'm not upset at eham or anonymous posters. Most are fine. When anonymous posts cross the line from fair comment into personal attacks, where the anonymous troll is hiding behind his anonymity like a coward, to avoid the social repercussions of his cowardice, that's where it becomes problematic.
 
RE: We're talking about what we've heard?  
by PITSWL on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"I agree with N1FM."

Renee: You're free to do so, though what purpose you imagine his ridiculous, "gay boi" innuendo, lame name-calling and finger-pointing over alleged vulgarity (while hypocritically acting like vulgarity on the air is no big deal) and other off-topic comments serve I'm sure I don't know. Most forums and social-media platforms nowadays don't allow nonsense like that specifically because it serves no purpose and detracts from legitimate discourse. If you'd like you can explain why you agree with that, or we can just agree to disagree. No worries!




 
Wow. Just... wow.  
by PITSWL on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"When anonymous posts cross the line from fair comment into personal attacks, where the anonymous troll is hiding behind his anonymity like a coward, to avoid the social repercussions of his cowardice..."

@N1FM: You want to talk about crossing a line, while at the same time referring to cases of "slander" on the Internet, while further making defamatory allegations about another amateur and attempting to link me to them?

First, my comments -- unlike your own -- did not, "cross the line" into personal attacks.

You're the one taking shots at peoples' sexuality, talking about trolling, this that and the other bit of nonsense, but now you want to make false allegations of, "child luring" and what not?

The object of your irrational obsession in Canada has no criminal record. He has never been legitimately accused of (and your false allegations don't count), investigated for, arrested for, charged with or convicted of ANY crime as can be verified by his Province's publicly available database of criminal actions.

Any claim of criminality on his part by you is defamatory, as is any claim, such as the ones you're making here, of anyone "supporting" such acts. That's what you're really talking about when you refer to, "social repercussions"; being defamed by you. And you're right, I'm not posting my true identity so you can falsely accuse me of, "child luring" and whatever nonsense you've dreamed up about VE7KFM that has no basis in fact.

 
RE: Shocked at Pisswilly's continuous trolling  
by KC9NRN on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"N1FM - Erik, don't get me wrong, I'm not upset at eham or anonymous posters. Most are fine. When anonymous posts cross the line from fair comment into personal attacks, where the anonymous troll is hiding behind his anonymity like a coward, to avoid the social repercussions of his cowardice, that's where it becomes problematic."

Well, I clearly don't have the whole picture so I'll bow out. I respect your opinion and his and can see both sides.

Have a great weekend everybody. :)
 
RE: We're talking about what we've heard?  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Why are you lying *AGAIN* Pisswilly?

Nobody referred to you as a "gay boi." I said you're lying and slandering people (as proven above) and that you hide behind anonymity to spare yourself the personal shame that comes with being a proven liar on a forum where 99.9% of the other posters use call signs.

Erik and Renee, here's more evidence of what I was talking about. Take a look at these screen shots.

http://imgur.com/a/P9AMu
 
RE: We're talking about what we've heard?  
by PITSWL on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"I said you're lying and slandering people..."

@N1FM: There is not a false statement among my comments here, nor has there ever been one.

 
RE: We're talking about what we've heard?  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Once again PITSWL defends the most disgusting amateur in the history of radio.

Let's all read the testimonial below, by a senior Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Supervisor.

Compare the signed statement, with the statement of PITSWL (an anonymous, proven liar, banned elsewhere) and his passionate defense of VE7KFM.


==

My Interaction With Karol F. Madera, VE7KFM


"My name is James Hiers. I work for the Department of Homeland Security in a supervisory role here in Texas.

Prior to that I was a Coxswain (boat pilot or driver if you will), a Boarding Officer (law enforcement officer), Rescue Swimmer, and Duty EMT for the U.S. Coast Guard.

I also served with the Kissimmee Police Department in Central Florida for 3 years. I'm a family man and a working guy. I guess you could say I've been in public service for most of my adult life.

I also operate an amateur (ham) radio station. My amateur call sign is KE5WRT.

I've enjoyed amateur radio and I've found almost all amateur operators to be sane, friendly, knowledgeable, positive people. There is one notable exception (VE7KFM-Karol Florian Madera) and I'll get to him in a moment.

I have to stress that this person is an anomaly - he doesn't represent Canadians, Canada, the Canadian Forces, or amateur operators in general.

He's a bad apple and a rarity on the air and frankly, I believe he needs psychological help.

In my very first interaction with Karol Madera, I learned that he is extremely mentally ill.

He acts like a child molester and a pedophile on the air. He seems to hate the U.S. government and most Americans in general.

After he attacked me and began to stalk and sexually harass my 11 year old daughter, I researched the facts independently and I found that the facts are in agreement with the web page at www.ve7kfm.com which exposes Karol Madera for what he is; a fraud, a pathological liar, a child abuser/molester and a military impostor.

For more details, see http://ve7kfm.com and the following YouTube video related to what he said to/about me, titled "VE7KFM MELTDOWN."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGwwIJ6sQao

My advice would be to avoid this operator at all costs. Do not encourage his anti- American rants, and above all, do not engage him in conversation!

He's a loose cannon and he is a danger to himself as well as to others in his community.

As Forrest Gump said, "Stupid is as stupid does" and "That's all I got to say about that." God bless! James, KE5WRT

Any questions?

Contact me at: ke5wrt@gmail.com "

http://www.angelfire.com/fl5/philminutts/HiersandKFM.htm
 
RE: Wow. Just... wow.  
by KC9NRN on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"PITSWL -You're the one taking shots at peoples' sexuality, talking about trolling, this that and the other bit of nonsense, but now you want to make false allegations of, "child luring" and what not?

The object of your irrational obsession in Canada has no criminal record. He has never been legitimately accused of (and your false allegations don't count), investigated for, arrested for, charged with or convicted of ANY crime as can be verified by his Province's publicly available database of criminal actions.

Any claim of criminality on his part by you is defamatory, as is any claim, such as the ones you're making here, of anyone "supporting" such acts. That's what you're really talking about when you refer to, "social repercussions"; being defamed by you. And you're right, I'm not posting my true identity so you can falsely accuse me of, "child luring" and whatever nonsense you've dreamed up about VE7KFM that has no basis in fact. "

I can give a opinion on VE7KFM based on my own experience and have been personally attacked by the soul-less human garbage that is Karol Madera. I have recordings of him saying very disgusting things about women, children, peoples wives, our President(s), homopsexual ramblings and a call for the rape of specific women, American deaths and while it may not be illegal in Canada I know its not allowed on their Amateur airwaves anymore than it is on ours so he should be taken off the air.

I can post recordings (I recorded them) I have going back over 10 years of VE7KFM breaking every rule there is for Amateur radio and very possibly breaking the law as well. I'm not sure why you're defending the guy when he clearly is batchit nuts and deserving of being striped of his license no matter what excuse can be made for his actions.

On almost any night he can be heard breaking several rules, so the past doesn't matter, it continues nearly every night.

I for one believe the airwaves would be better without him. I once heard him talking to Boy Scouts in a very disgusting manner, I wish I had been at the shack to record it, but it wouldn't matter, Canada doesn't enforce their rules, it seems ever.
 
Shocked at PITSWL & his continues lies/trolling...  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Thank you Erik.


by N1FM: "I said you're lying and slandering people..."


by PITSWL:
"There is not a false statement among my comments here, nor has there ever been one."

by PITSWL on March 3, 2017
"I agree with N1FM." You're free to do so, though what purpose you imagine his ridiculous, "gay boi" innuendo...

by PITSWL on March 3, 2017
"You're the one taking shots at peoples' sexuality,"

==

Rebuttal by N1FM:

Nobody hit you with "gay boi" innuendo PitSWL. The reference was "banned boi" and that is certainly true.

1. Your ref. to "gay boi innuendo" is lie #1

2. "There is not a false statement..." is lie #2.

3. "...nor has there ever been one," is lie #3.

4. "people's sexuality" is lie #4.

5. "false allegations of, "child luring" and what not?" is lie #5.

6. "He has never been legitimately accused" - see the civil court of Canada, Victoria Real Estate Board and British Columbia Law Society cases. Lie #6.

7. "nonsense you've dreamed up about VE7KFM that has no basis in fact."

See Special Counsel Riley Hollingsworth's comments and DHS Supervisor, James Hier's comments, not to mentionformal statements from other officials, in other agencies, including the FBI, that you don't even know about. This is lie #7, and I could go on all day.


Now, if I were to go to other forums, including the forums where you've been banned PITSWL, and forums where you've had comments removed PITSWL, I could point to your other lies, libel, and trolling, PITSWL.

I think what I've proven here will suffice to make my point, despite your denials, bobbing, weaving, misrepresenting, and cowardly defense of the child luring, obscene, slanderous, al Qaeda supporter, in Cana-Duh.

 
RE: Wow. Just... wow.  
by PITSWL on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"I can give a opinion on VE7KFM based on my own experience and have been personally attacked by the soul-less human garbage that is Karol Madera. I have recordings of him saying very disgusting things about women, children, peoples wives, our President(s), homopsexual ramblings and a call for the rape of specific women, American deaths and while it may not be illegal in Canada I know its not allowed on their Amateur airwaves anymore than it is on ours so he should be taken off the air."

You're more than welcome to your opinions. I've heard KFM say a lot of objectionable things, and I'm well aware of his excessive use of profanity. And I have no problem with anyone finding any of that objectionable.

Beyond that, I've never endorsed any of that, contrary to what N1FM falsely claims. I've also never equated profanity with, "child luring" as he calls it, which is a defamatory (per se) statement.

"I can post recordings (I recorded them) I have going back over 10 years of VE7KFM breaking every rule there is for Amateur radio and very possibly breaking the law as well."

I don't know about him breaking the law, but he's certainly broken FCC rules (that he's not subject to), as have his detractors. Some people imagine that a warning letter, notice of inquiry, NAL or forfeiture order is no big deal, but the numerous citations that have been dealt to KFM's 14.275/14.313 detractors illustrate that their hands aren't clean. Again, I've never stood up and said that he's a proverbial, "fine business operator".

"I'm not sure why you're defending the guy when he clearly is batchit nuts and deserving of being striped of his license..."

There's a universe of difference between not deserving of a license to transmit over the public airwaves -- which is a legitimate OPINION -- and deserving to be the victim of a campaign of gang-stalking and defamation where you're falsely accused of, among other things, murder, child molestation and terrorism.

"I for one believe the airwaves would be better without him."

And you're welcome to that view. I happen to think that if you hold it, you'd agree that the airwaves would also be better without any number of his detractors.

"I once heard him talking to Boy Scouts in a very disgusting manner, I wish I had been at the shack to record it, but it wouldn't matter, Canada doesn't enforce their rules, it seems ever."

Indeed. I heard a similar event involving a US operator just recently, and I'm sure the FCC won't do anything about him either. But the FCC seemingly doesn't care about enforcement, and I understand why; they can't levy huge fines against amateurs the way they can hit large broadcasters, and, for some reason, they simply won't revoke licenses even if an amateur has a history of rulebreaking.
 
Laughing while PITSWL lies about the obvious...  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
PITSWL - Bobbing, weaving, denying your continuous defense of an obviously batshite crazy ham (VE7KFM) from Cana-Duh.


Here's that putrid ham in Cana-Duh, talking about an 11 year old girl and whether or not she has big t*ts and stating she probably has syphilis. Nice PITSWL; glad you can defend this trash; you lying hypocrite!

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGwwIJ6sQao)

Here's PITSWL defending VE7KFM again... and CRYING because he was banned at another ham site, for lying and trolling - which is exactly what he does here. Too funny.

( http://imgur.com/a/IuKXE )
 
RE: Wow. Just... wow.  
by KC9NRN on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
PITSWL,

I was speaking of VE7KFM, anybody that does the same thing as he does deserves the same thing. I haven't heard N1FM do the same things as Karol does however but I'm not listening at all times every day. When I do come across things it's typically Karol leading the charge into lunacy.

I have heard a lot of jamming and I know the calls of others who jam him and they all would be better off ignoring the guy, if he has nobody to scream at he'll go away, people feed him what he wants to hear.

The FCC has sent letters to some US Amateurs as you know, I don't know of anything being done to curtail the king of filth in Canada.

Having been personally attacked by the guy and none of the others I have heard on the various frequencies I center my attention on Karol which may not be helpful either but it is what it is.

I went a few years without hearing him when he changed to 313, those were good years and I try to avoid those frequencies most of them time. Sometimes you tune in and hear how weak his signal is and you chear the destruction of his amplifier as his signal spaltters all over the place like a poorly tuned engine but nope, that thing splatters on but some day that junk he uses will finally croak, or he will and the silence will be awesome.

Will another Karol come along, I don't know if there has ever been somebody that nuts but there will always be bad Amateurs, hopefully I'm in their skip. :)
 
RE: Shocked at PITSWL & his continues lies/trolling...  
by PITSWL on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Nobody hit you with "gay boi" innuendo PitSWL. The reference was "banned boi" and that is certainly true."

1. You've repeatedly referred to VE7KFM as, and I quote, my, "boyfriend". Use of the term, "boi", well, that reference is obvious. So no, that was not a lie.

"'There is not a false statement...'" is lie #2."

2. Except that you've not pointed one out.

'3. "...nor has there ever been one," is lie #3.'

3. See #2.

"'people's sexuality is lie #4."

4. See #'s 1 & 2.

"'false allegations of, "child luring" and what not?'"

5. As I said, VE7KFM has not been LEGITIMATELY accused of, investigated for, arrested for, charged with or convicted of ANY crime, including "child luring".

"'He has never been legitimately accused" - see the civil court of Canada, Victoria Real Estate Board and British Columbia Law Society cases. Lie #6.'"

6. The operative word in that response was, "civil". A civil action is not a criminal action. Which you know -- or should.

"'nonsense you've dreamed up about VE7KFM that has no basis in fact.'See Special Counsel Riley Hollingsworth's comments..."

7. To my knowledge, Riley Hollingsworth was not a law enforcement official, nor did he either have nor make an accusation of any substance against VE7KFM that resulted in a legitimate investigation of, arrest of or charges against VE7KFM that led to a conviction. But if you have evidence of such, feel free to share it.

"...and DHS Supervisor, James Hier's comments..."

8. If the claims of Mr. Hiers had any merit, he could have easily contacted his local authorities, who would have worked with the FBI and it's opposite number in Canada to investigate and, if warranted, arrest, charge and convict VE7KFM of a crime. Not so much as a complaint was ever made by Mr. Hiers.

"...not to mentionformal statements from other officials, in other agencies, including the FBI, that you don't even know about."

If they had merit, a case would have been made. It never happened.

"I could go on all day."

I'm sure you could. I'm also sure that, like with your previous responses, there would be little, if any, truth to the responses.

"Now, if I were to go to other forums, including the forums where you've been banned PITSWL..."

I was banned on a single forum -- which I've since rejoined, though I haven't posted there. Other banned posters who, for reasons I don't understand, liked to talk about me have, subsequently, been banned themselves. I am active here, on RadioReference and on Hamisland.net.

"...and forums where you've had comments removed PITSWL, I could point to your other lies, libel..."

Feel free to point out what you imagine was libelous about any comment of mine from QRZ, all of which are still there, or Reddit. Reddit removed a number of posts from me and three other posters because the moderators there determined the comments were off-topic, even though they primarily branched off from QRZ's issues with HRO and comments about Industry Canada taking steps to allow people to protect their personal information, and Reddit takes off-topic posts more serious than other forums. Their moderators were also very friendly, informative, and made clear exactly what the issue was -- and it wasn't what you falsely claim.

"I think what I've proven here will suffice to make my point..."

Considering you don't have one, aside from having an irrational dislike for VE7KFM whom you could have simply ignored (in line with your comments in this thread) rather than becoming irrationally obsessed with and mixing with for more than ten years.

"...despite your denials..."

Sure, I'm going to deny when someone makes false allegations about me the way you're doing here, particularly when your false allegations become defamatory per se, like insinuating I, "support" child luring.

 
RE: Wow. Just... wow.  
by KC9NRN on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Fred, now that is a guy who can go on and on and on when has had a few, wow. There was a man who is now a silent key, he was interesting to hear go after Karol but I forgot his call sign.

I have it at home so I have to look it up, he could get under Karol's skin better than anybody.
 
RE: Wow. Just... wow.  
by PITSWL on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Fred...Roll? WW4D? Fred's not dead.
 
RE: Wow. Just... wow.  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
PITSWL give it up. Hold down your CTRL key, type F (for find) and type the word boyfriend. There is one instance of that word, and you just made it. And that's lie #8.


Just listen to VE7KFM at 13 minutes 50 seconds until 14 minutes 55 seconds (about one minute at the end) and realize he's talking about an 11 year old daughter of a DHS Supervisor, quoted above. Now tell me there are no 'verifiable accusations' against this moron.

13 minutes 50 seconds until the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGwwIJ6sQao

Now, so we all understand, PITSWL does nothing but defend this idiot, while using his anonymous CB Handle to go from forum to forum, pointing the finger at the complainants against the child luring idiot in Canada.

By the way, the child luring allegation was officially lodged by DHS Supervisor James Hiers, in 2011, with the DHS, Saanich PD, and RCMP.

He was told the op is mentally ill and specifically covered under their forensic mental illness laws in Canada, where he's referred to his psychiatrist, instead of jail, under their Part XX.1 law.

http://www.yourlaws.ca/criminal-code-canada/part-xx1-mental-disorder

http://imgur.com/a/IuKXE

Get the picture?
 
RE: Wow. Just... wow.  
by PITSWL on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"I haven't heard N1FM do the same things as Karol does however but I'm not listening at all times every day. When I do come across things it's typically Karol leading the charge into lunacy."

'FM is as vulgar in his use of profanity as 'KFM. In one slightly longer than an hour diatribe over the killing by a police officer (who is now on trial for manslaughter and attempted murder) of an innocent motorist with no criminal record he himself dropped, by my count, 89 F-bombs in just over an hour; other participants dropped 45. That comes out to roughly 1.89 F-bombs per minute. Hardly occasional and, definitely not in line with the "fleeting use" provisions of FCC rules which were at the heart of the FCC vs. Fox case.

Sadly, the numerous F/MF-bombs were nowhere near as offensive as some of the comments about the actual topic. I won't repeat those. I really wish that was on YouTube.
 
RE: Wow. Just... wow.  
by KC9NRN on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
PITSWL,

Honestly, f-bombs are the least of what I worry about on the airwaves. I have never heard anybody talk like Karol on the air, a few of his friends have chimed in and backed him up or cheered him on, but I have never heard an American (of those that gave call signs) say the same things that Karol does.

As far as I know, N1FM gives his call sign, as did Brian Krow and others but then so does Karol.

I've into listening since the late 60's before getting licensed and Karol is the worst of the worst I have ever heard and I have heard some strange things, nothing like Karol.
 
Shocked at PITSWL & his lying & ignorance  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
PITSWL: "as vulgar in his use of profanity as 'KFM. I really wish that was on YouTube."

Lie #9 !! LOL....

#1 You can't be defamed because PITSWL is a CB handle, a fictional ID, not a person, ya jackalope.

#2 You continuously defend a ham who is continuously obscene. Obscenity has nothing to do with profanity or indecency, as heard on national TV by Cher, Nicole Ritchie, Bono, and countless amateurs, every night. Get a clue about the law!

Profanity and indecency are specifically *legal* between the hours of 10 PM and 6 AM local time.

"Deciding what's obscene, indecent or profane"

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/obscene-indecent-and-profane-broadcasts


Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, concurring in the judgment.


"In my view, the Court’s decision in FCC v. Pacifica Foundation, 438 U. S. 726 (1978) , was wrong when it issued. Time, technological advances, and the Commission’s untenable rulings in the cases now before the Court show why Pacifica bears reconsideration." Cf. FCC v. Fox Television Stations, Inc., 556 U. S. 502 –535 (2009) (Thomas, J., concurring).

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/567/10-1293/concur4.html


"Why Red Lion and Pacifica Ought to Be Overturned"

http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7tx014x7
 
RE: Wow. Just... wow.  
by PITSWL on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
@KC9NRN: I appreciate your comments. Reasonable people can agree to disagree, and that without taking shots at sexuality -- something most people outgrow in High School -- and other personal attacks that serve no purpose.
 
Re: PITSWL Lying and Crying on eHam  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Let's review:

This thread is about what we hear on the air.

1. PITSWL has repeatedly lied about comments, supposedly about his sexuality, misquoting and misrepresenting others' posts, specifically mine.

2. PITSWL claimed that James Hiers never filed a complaint about VE7KFM's child luring. Demonstrably false!

3. PITSWL claimed I used the word 'boyfriend' and made comments about his sexuality. Demonstrably false!

4. PITSWL claimed I used "gay" innuendo, which stands in sharp contrast to the actual word, BANNED. Demonstrably false!

5. PITSWL claims allegations about VE7KFM are "dreamed up" despite formal police complaints and documented evidence to the contrary. Demonstrably False!

6. PITSWL claims he's defamed and attacked. Since when can anyone defame a CB handle? Since when is the truth an attack? Demonstrably false!

7. PITSWL clearly had no idea that profanity and indecency are specifically legal in the United States between the hours of 10 PM and 6 AM local time. Demonstrably ignorant!

8. PITSWL can't differentiate between the OBSCENITY coming out of Canada, and the legal profanity and indecency he's heard in the USA. Demonstrably misleading!

9. PITSWL, when confronted with documented FACTS continues to bob, weave, attack, and play the crybaby, making up false defense of 'attacks' - including insertion of false statements - supposedly against his 'sexuality,' as if anyone would even know what gender a PITWSL might be? Demonstrably foolish!

Shocking?

Yes, VE7KFMs daily obscenity is shocking. Yes, VE7KFMs calls for al Qaeda attacks are shocking. Yes, his statement, "I hope a Darky shoots you in the head," was shocking.

Yes, VE7KFM's multiple disgusting comments about minor children, and their sexual attributes are shocking, as were his comments about Laura Smith, and countless others.

Fortunately, we haven't heard any credible reports of any *remotely* similar obscenities from American amateurs, and despite PITSWL, continuously defending the piece of human excrement from Canada, PITSWL still fails to take responsibility for his lies and misrepresentations.

However, that's not shocking at all, because PITSWL is a lying cartoon character, hiding behind a fictitious identity, failing to take responsibility for his lies and misrepresentations, and that's why he's been banned elsewhere, and why anonymity in a forum like this can *occasionally* make for an inhospitable environment, for honest commentators (like almost all of us) who stand behind their words.

 
Different service  
by KC3NG on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Clarification

The Amateur Service is a different service than the Broadcast service and they have different regulations and different basic definitions in the U.S.so comparisons are legit but confusion of the services are simply confusion.
 
Re: PITSWL Lying and Crying on eHam  
by PITSWL on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Let's review:"

Oh boy, more of N1FM talking a lot while saying less than nothing.

"This thread is about what we hear on the air."

Well, it was, until it became another N1FM launches personal attacks against anyone who he feels, "defends" VE7KFM's nonexistent criminal record.

"PITSWL has repeatedly lied about comments, supposedly about his sexuality, misquoting and misrepresenting others' posts, specifically mine."

You said, and I quote, "Go back to your bf in Cana-duh banned boi".

Yes, you abbreviated, "boyfriend" as "bf". Of course, what you meant was obvious.

"PITSWL claimed that James Hiers never filed a complaint about VE7KFM's child luring. Demonstrably false!"

That's funny, seeing as how you haven't demonstrated it. Oh, I'm just supposed to take your/his word for it?

Where's the report to his local police? The FBI? Canadian authorities? Where is the Canadian response claiming, "mental illness"?

Where's the charge?

Where's the arrest?

Where's the conviction?

You're the one who needs to review the law if you imagine someone allegedly being, "mentally ill" would have prevented them from being arrested for alleged, "child luring".

Regardless, you bring no actual evidence but an anecdotal claim.

"PITSWL claimed I used the word 'boyfriend' and made comments about his sexuality. Demonstrably false!"

Right. You abbreviated "bf", while referring to KFM as a, "boi". The tenor of that comment is obvious.

"PITSWL claims allegations about VE7KFM are "dreamed up" despite formal police complaints and documented evidence to the contrary. Demonstrably False!"

You've not provided a single "formal" complaint.

Beyond that, if such a complaint actually exists -- and, as you know or should know, a complaint in and of itself means nothing without an actual investigation -- it has yet to result in a charge, an arrest or a conviction.

"PITSWL claims he's defamed and attacked. Since when can anyone defame a CB handle? Since when is the truth an attack? Demonstrably false!"

Which "truth"? That I "support child luring"? That I've "defended" objectionable comments by VE7KFM? None of those things are true.

"7. PITSWL clearly had no idea that profanity and indecency are specifically legal in the United States between the hours of 10 PM and 6 AM local time."

Not only am I aware of that, it's irrelevant to anything I've said previously.

"8. PITSWL can't differentiate between the OBSCENITY coming out of Canada, and the legal profanity and indecency he's heard in the USA. Demonstrably misleading!"

Do tell, where has VE7KFM's content been deemed, "obscene" in a court of law?

"9. PITSWL, when confronted with documented FACTS..."

Of which you've provided so few, particularly ones that are, "documented".

"...continues to bob, weave, attack, and play the crybaby..."

Based on your responses, you seem far worked up over my comments than I am over yours, despite continually claiming that you don't care about what I have to say -- as another poster pointed out above. And where are these, "attacks" I've allegedly launched?

"Yes, VE7KFMs daily obscenity is shocking. Yes, VE7KFMs calls for al Qaeda attacks are shocking. Yes, his statement, "I hope a Darky shoots you in the head," was shocking."

So, claiming you hope someone gets shot is shocking?

We agree on that statement.

"Yes, VE7KFM's multiple disgusting comments about minor children, and their sexual attributes are shocking, as were his comments about Laura Smith, and countless others."

I've never suggested that comments such as these aren't disgusting.

You, however, have no room to point fingers as comments you boasted of here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czRpHyYgMYs&feature=youtu.be&t=515] are right up there with them.

"Fortunately, we haven't heard any credible reports of any *remotely* similar obscenities from American amateurs..."

We can agree to disagree; I've never heard KFM drop 89 F/MF-bombs in little over an hour, nor have I ever heard him so exuberant over inappropriate comments to female hams as you were in that clip.

"...that's why he's been banned elsewhere, and why anonymity in a forum like this can *occasionally* make for an inhospitable environment..."

Other readers can make up their own minds as to which one of us is the one actually creating an "inhospitable" environment here.

"...for honest commentators (like almost all of us) who stand behind their words."

That you stand behind 89 F/MF-bombs in little over an hour and the comments you referred to in that clip above is very much illustrative of the point I believe the author of the article was trying to make.

 
Re: PITSWL Lying and Crying on eHam  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
PITSWL: Yes, you abbreviated, "boyfriend" as "bf". Of course, what you meant was obvious.

No, you're lying again, PITSWL. BF is my abbreviation for 'best friend,' the way BFF is an abbreviation for 'best friend forever.'


PITSWL: "Where's the report to his local police? The FBI? Canadian authorities? Where is the Canadian response claiming, "mental illness"?"

I have it. James has it. You'll need to request it. Good luck.

PITSWL: You're the one who needs to review the law if you imagine someone allegedly being, "mentally ill" would have prevented them from being arrested for alleged, "child luring".

Read the link dummy and then try to interpret the law.

http://www.yourlaws.ca/criminal-code-canada/part-xx1-mental-disorder

PITSWL: Do tell, where has VE7KFM's content been deemed, "obscene" in a court of law?

Again? See the link.

http://www.yourlaws.ca/criminal-code-canada/part-xx1-mental-disorder

PITSWL: "Yes, VE7KFMs daily obscenity is shocking. Yes, VE7KFMs calls for al Qaeda attacks are shocking. Yes, his statement, "I hope a Darky shoots you in the head," was shocking."

Yes, thanks, I agree.

PITSWL: ""Yes, VE7KFM's multiple disgusting comments about minor children, and their sexual attributes are shocking, as were his comments about Laura Smith, and countless others." I've never suggested that comments such as these aren't disgusting.

That's wonderful, we have common ground. Again.

PITSWL: "...that's why he's been banned elsewhere, and why anonymity in a forum like this can *occasionally* make for an inhospitable environment..." Other readers can make up their own minds as to which one of us is the one actually creating an "inhospitable" environment here.

Yup, I say it's the cowardly and anonymous troll (you) defending a pos child-luring psychotic, and you say it's the decorated officer, retired detective, member of a 1.7 billion dollar school budget cmte, (me) TV commentator, extra class amateur op, certified forensic specialist, licensed broker, and nationally recognized award winner from The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children. We can disagree.

PITSWL: "That you stand behind 89 F/MF-bombs..."

There you go again, referring to a sliced and diced, digitally reconstituted piece of studio fraud, attributed to me, which, in any case would have been perfectly legal under FCC rules.

You know what Riley Hollingsworth said, when he heard about that nonsense? "Even if it was you, don't worry about it Tom; we all know those guys are dickheads."

Come back when you get some new material Pisswilly.



 
RE: Different service  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Different service by KC3NG:


"Clarification - The Amateur Service is a different service than the Broadcast service and they have different regulations and different basic definitions in the U.S. so comparisons are legit but confusion of the services are simply confusion."

==

Renee, in 1987, the Commission extended Pacifica to cover ham radio, in the case of David Hildebrand (N6BHU) in California. It's completely indefensible in court, because Pacifica specifically disallows 2 way radio and distinguishes 2 way radio from broadcasting, but since when did a Supreme Court case ever stop an administrative bureaucracy? LOL.

https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc1602/m1/277/






 
Changing the subject...lame, and typical for N1FM.  
by PITSWL on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"No, you're lying again, PITSWL."

Readers will decide for themselves.

"I have it. James has it. You'll need to request it. Good luck."

Right. In other words, take your word for it, because you have no actual evidence. Got it.

"Read the link dummy and then try to interpret the law.

http://www.yourlaws.ca/criminal-code-canada/part-xx1-mental-disorder"

No, no, no, it's YOUR claim, not mine.

You said your friend James made a report which, conveniently, you won't produce. Then you say in response to that report, a Canadian police department told him that KFM is allegedly mentally ill that they couldn't take action because of XX.1.

You prove that from the law.

"Again?"

I must have missed where you did it the first time.

"See the link."

I did. I'll ask again: where has anything KFM has said over the air been ruled obscene in a court of law?

"Yes, thanks, I agree."

So you'd agree that the statement, "I hope he shot him seven f----- times", in reference to an innocent motorist broken down on the side of the road by a police officer in an unmarked van with no badge or uniform who is now on trial for manslaughter and attempted murder would be, "shocking"?

"Yup, I say it's the cowardly and anonymous troll (you) defending a pos child-luring psychotic..."

Again, you have nothing in your arsenal but ad hominem attacks and defamation. And it's not like this is anything less than typical; you respond this way to people on the air who identify with a call-sign. Sad.

"...and you say it's the decorated officer, retired detective, member of a 1.7 billion dollar school budget cmte, (me) TV commentator, extra class amateur op, certified forensic specialist, licensed broker, and nationally recognized award winner from The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children."

None of which is in any way relevant.

"There you go again, referring to a sliced and diced..."

Entirely unedited, actually.

"...digitally reconstituted piece of studio fraud..."

Sounds more like something the VERY fake amateur radio "news" website you have previously owned domains pointing to would work up. You know, like the audio that the anonymous operators cut up from a Cincinnati-area ABC affiliate involving a guy named Maximo Madera who is no relation to VE7KFM.

"You know what Riley Hollingsworth said, when he heard about that nonsense? 'Even if it was you, don't worry about it Tom; we all know those guys are dickheads.'"

Well, I know that you claim he said it. Riley has always seemed pretty straight-edge to me, so use of such an ugly word seems like something he'd avoid, but, then, Riley made his fair share of stupid statements.

"Come back when you get some new material Pisswilly."

Says the guy who's spiel has been pretty much exactly the same since, what... 2005? In fact, that was my line in response to you just the other day. When I said that, I didn't mean copy me.



 
More lame evasion, typical for PITSWL.  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Tell me which piece of forensic software you used to determine legitimacy? Tell me your standing to discover evidence in a child luring case? Tell me where you got your law degree? Tell me about your forensic certification to determine fraud? I'm a certified fraud investigator and certified forensics specialist, so my qualifications are directly relevant here, especially when compared to a lying, anonymous, coward.

LOL.

Now, I'll talk to James and he'll probably agree, but give me YOUR name and YOUR residential address, PITSWL, and I'll get something out to you in the next certified mail. I promise.
 
RE: Changing the subject...lame, and typical for N1FM.  
by VK4FFAB on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
OMG someone turned the bed wetting in this thread up to 11. So its ok to bitch about the idiots on 7200 but its ok to act like them on eham discussions. Pot, kettle, black, hypocrite, take your pick.
 
RE: Changing the subject...lame, and typical for N1FM.  
by KC9CFM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
This back and forth fighting reminds me exactly of what I hear on the "bad" HF frequencies - albeit with most of the cursing excluded...
 
RE: Lies & anonymous attacks; typical for PITSWL  
by N1FM on March 3, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Agreed. It's a real shame anonymous trolls are allowed to tell lies and attack people here on eham. It would be great if licensed hams could just have a decent conversation without having to debunk lies and attacks in post after post.
 
RE: Changing the subject...lame, and typical for N1FM.  
by PITSWL on March 4, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"This back and forth fighting reminds me exactly of what I hear on the "bad" HF frequencies - albeit with most of the cursing excluded... "

@KC9NRN: For what it's worth, I would have bowed out of the "conversation" along with you yesterday, if not for N1FM's blatantly over-the-line comments suggesting a link between me and a crime he continually falsely asserts VE7KFM committed but was never investigated for, arrested for, charged with, prosecuted for or convicted of in a court of law -- and not because of some Canadian mental illness statute he imagines shields people from prosecution but which does no such thing. But don't take my word for it, take the Canadian Justice Ministry's:

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/jsp-sjp/rr06_1/p1.html

@N1FM: What credentials you have, what accomplishments you have to your credit, and what credentials I don't have -- or which you imagine I don't have -- are irrelevant to the matter of your demonstrably false claim of, "child luring" against VE7KFM, or your attempts to tie me to the same.

Continually painting my measured, above-board responses to your false assertions as "attacks" doesn't make it so, no matter how many times you repeat the claim.

That said, with regard to your oft-mentioned twenty-something years as a police officer [as well as your status as a CFE, one requirement of the CFE exam being a thorough knowledge of rules of evidence and criminal/civil codes in a given jurisdiction such that a fraud charge has LEGAL merit], one would expect that such a person would have a thorough knowledge of the law in his or her jurisdiction, and understand the elements of establishing a LEGAL basis for any number of criminal acts.

One would also expect such a person, having sworn an oath to uphold and defend the law, to understand and appreciate one of its cornerstone principles: the presumption of innocence until guilt is proven in a court of law -- not a court of public opinion.

You speak of the elements of child luring; what credentials you have in that regard -- or what you imagine I don't -- aren't relevant.

That's a fallacy of argument from authority.

What's relevant is what credentials the police in Saanich, BC have.

What's more, I don't need to have twenty-some years to my credit as a police officer in order to read a criminal statue, like Canada's child luring statute, and relevant other codified offenses as cited:

http://www.yourlaws.ca/criminal-code-canada/1721-luring-child

I also don't need twenty-something years to my credit as a police officer, nor do I need to have passed the CFE exam to know what was said, and to whom it was said, during the engagement between Mr. Hiers and VE7KFM. I merely need only have ears and have listened to the audio.

I know what was said.

I know to whom it was said.

I know it was inappropriate, crude even.

I've never suggested otherwise, and never defended the comment or "supported" it in any way, your false assertions aside.

The only facts of import -- and discussing them requires none of the qualifications or accomplishments you boast -- are that, per BC's child luring statute, an individual has to actually communicate with a child they believe to be a minor; making boorish statements about a child one doesn't even know exists [as repeatedly stated in your famous YouTube video] based on nothing more than a voice on the radio, the voice NOT of the child, but of her father is, as we've already established, inappropriate and crude, but it does not reach the threshold of a criminal act per the Criminal Code of Canada.

THAT is why any complaint Mr. Hiers may or may not have made to authorities in Saanich, BC resulted in no investigation, no arrest, no charge, no prosecution and no conviction, not some mental illness provision in their Criminal Code which, as their own Justice ministry pointed out, doesn't provide any protection from investigation based on alleged mental illness -- also something required to be proven in a court of law, NOT a court of public opinion.
 
RE: PITSWL -- Defending a child-luring sicko.  
by N1FM on March 4, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Anonymous Internet troll, defending a known child predator, accused by a DHS supervisor. SAD!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikg31jhBdG8
 
RE: PITSWL -- Defending a child-luring sicko.  
by PITSWL on March 4, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"...known child predator..."

I'm pretty sure I've already hit all the high points, but since they need reiterating, I'll do so in even simpler terms: people accused of serious crimes such as, "child luring" [or, now, being a, "child predator"] are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law -- not a court of public opinion like YouTube.

They're not guilty all known and relevant facts aside because, "N1FM says so and N1FM used to be a detective," which is the effective sum of most of your comments -- and that in fewer words than are in this sentence.
 
RE: PITSWL -- Defending a child-luring sicko.  
by N1FM on March 4, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Not even close Troll. I'm still a certified forensics specialist and expert witness. I do this every day. Meanwhile, you're still an anonymous Internet troll, playing Internet Perry Mason (poorly) while defending a scumbag who was reported by a DHS Supervisor as a child predator. I told you, I'll happily send you more, but because the victim's a minor, it's a sensitive issue. All I need is YOUR name and YOUR residential mailing address for receipt of certified mail. I was a witness, so naturally I was copied on this email chain, which contains *many* emails back and forth.

*****

From: Constable Kathleen Brandsma / Saanich Police Department
Date: Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Karol Madera's E-mail To Me on 4/13/11
To: James Hiers


James;

Thank you for sending me everything you have. If you have any further contact with MADERA, it's important to you tell him clearly to not contact you, and document when you do so.

In the meantime, I have contacted Industry Canada in an effort to learn more about what it takes to revoke his license.

I will stay in touch with you.


*********************

Subject: My interaction with Karol Madera on 4/09/11.
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 03:30:36 -0400
From: JAMES HIERS
To: Kathleen Brandsma/ Saanich Police Department
http://www.mediafire.com/?37bxpmhxxxxxxxx


Constable Brandsma,

Good evening and thank you much for taking my call. The above link is to my audio recording of Karol Madera's (VE7KFM) lewd and lascivious conduct on the air on April 9th, 2011. On this day, he advised he still wanted to know how large my daughter's "t*ts" were... Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions or comments. Thank you so VERY MUCH for all of your patience and understanding.

Sincerely,
James W. Hiers
Department Of Homeland Security
806-xxx-xxxx (work)
806-xxx-xxxx (cell)
Threat Assessment Counter-Terrorism Officer(TACT)
Collateral Duty Safety Officer
 
RE: PITSWL -- Defending a child-luring sicko.  
by KC9NRN on March 4, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
N1FM,

Sadly, it's now 2017 and it looks like that went nowhere? I hear Madera in my neck of the woods today but he sounds weak and is easily over-powered by the contestor's.

I suppose somebody could also be playing back recordings.
 
RE: PITSWL -- Defending a child-luring sicko.  
by N1FM on March 4, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Hi Erik,

He's weak but he's on almost every day at about 4:00 or 4:30 PM Eastern on 14.313. Still sounds as insane as ever, still stalking and harassing people, still taking responsibility for arranging NALs in 2014, and still ranting and raving like a madman.

Although Industry Canada still allows him to transmit, we shouldn't assume it's gone nowhere.

As I said; person like this is often referred for psychiatric treatment and medication. Unfortunately, people don't always take their meds, and some people mix booze with their meds.

We use diversionary programs here as well, especially for alcoholism and drug abuse, but also for mental illness, but we use those programs much less frequently than British Columbia.

"Section 16 of the Canadian Criminal Code recognizes that for some individuals, mental disorder will affect their cognition to the point that it would be unprincipled to find them criminally liable. The diversion program is known as NCRMD - Not Criminally Responsible on Account of Mental Disorder. Up to 71.5% of people found NCRMD were under some form of government income support. It is highly unlikely that these individuals will have the personal capacity to conduct or fund a complicated legal defense."

"Section 672.54 provides that a person diverted from the criminal justice system can be ordered to abide by a specified treatment plan; report to a designated person (e.g., psychiatrist) on a scheduled basis; and
refrain from possessing weapons. The disposition is not considered to be punitive in nature, rather it's designed to protect the public and the mentally ill person. All records are unpublished and sealed under Canadian health record laws."

Sources: Criminal Code of Canada; Winko v. British Columbia (Forensic Psychiatric Institute), [1999] 2 S.C.R. 625, 1999 CanLII 694 (S.C.C.) at para 31; J. D. Livingston, D. Wilson, G. Tien and L. Bond "A Follow-up Study of Persons Found Not Criminally Responsible on Account of Mental Disorder in British Columbia," Canadian Journal of Psychiatry 48; etc.
 
RE: PITSWL -- Defending a child-luring sicko.  
by PITSWL on March 4, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Not even close Troll."

@N1FM: Close to what?

Proving guilt in a court of law? On a charge of, "child luring" or an unsubstantiated claim of being a, "child predator"?

Right, you're not close to that, because regardless of any complaint Mr. Hiers made -- and your words printed on a screen don't an official complaint make -- the result remains no investigation, because, per Canadian Criminal Code previously posted, the statements of VE7KFM to Hiers -- not to Hiers's daughter -- don't meet the bar of, "child luring", regardless of what you continually assert, and regardless of any complaint made, which is why no investigation for, "child luring" was initiated, no arrest was made, no charges were filed and no one was convicted in a court of law.



 
RE: PITSWL -- Defending a child-luring sicko.  
by N1FM on March 4, 2017 Mail this to a friend!


I've decided to use this topic on TV in a discussion about anonymous supporters of child predators in ham radio. I'll try to have someone from DHS and a representative from the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, and possibly a member of the FBI Cyber Security Squad, as part of the round table discussion. If any anonymous troll hereabouts would like to be on TV to defend Karol Madera, just send your full name and residential address.

**********

See the pic of Karol Madera VE7KFM caught in the act of stalking and harassing a woman, and see the Saanich police blog discussing the incident:

http://imgur.com/a/atF7E

**********

(See the email from the victim's husband below)

**********

Hi,

I had a surprise phone call come out of the blue from Constable Reagen Mackie, RCMP today!!......

I just got off the phone with him. He's asked me if I would help in the investigation and also help in acting as a witness for Crown Counsel when the this whole mess goes to court....

we talked on the phone for about 20 minutes and XXXXX XXXX name came up in a good way and he also told me that what really got the ball rolling on the investigation was the fact that kooky [VE7KFM] who he admitted is really kooky.....

called Kathleen Brandsma at home 2 days after she attended his residence investigating a complaint from a female neighbour and he threatened her on phone using "using Canadian vocabulary which, is his right in Canada" ....!!

he mentioned receiving recordings from you and told me that the investigation is being headed by Saanich Police ( Det.Sgt.Marko Berton lead investigator Saanich PD file # 2013-5030 ) .....

Constable Mackie is stationed at RCMP Island HQ on Blanshard St. Victoria

he said he handles Terrorist security files of Police interest! he gave his phone number of (250)380-xxxx

he was thankful to me mentioning [my wife's] stalking incident to Oceanside RCMP and Sgt. Jim Price, Saanich P.D.

Regards,

xxxxx

**********

I received a return call from Cst.Kathleen Brandsma of Saanich P.D. today....

and it's confirmed Karol Madera is under investigation on a "Sexual interference" charge brought up over last last Saturday's lewd transmissions he made regarding remarks made about an 11 year old girl....

Cst. Brandsma requested who she could contact at Industry Canada on Radio communications act regulations and I kindly informed her to contact Jim Laursen and wished her luck on any help from him.....

I also informed her of the open file the Oceanside RCMP have on Kooky and the stalking he's been doing.....

and she was unaware of Kooky's website....

so I also kindly gave her the website address and also informed her you might see some more references about his fascination with children he's added to it!

** a good note to Karol: don't piss people off who happen to work for U.S. federal agencies by commenting on their children's anatomy..... and hope that if they do complain, the case is not handed over to a gung-ho female police officer, who by the sound of it, is really disgusted by his retarded antics!! **

regards,

xxxxx

**********

The victim and his wife (above) reported being stalked and harassed at their home by Karol Madera VE7KFM and a female accomplice. Madera posed as a movie director and the unidentified female posed as a movie producer in order to take pictures of the victim and her property for later publication on Madera's blog with sexually harassing commentary. The female accomplice took a picture of the victim and her property, with Madera sitting in the car in the foreground. Police used this picture, and Madera's website, and witness statements to verify the complaint.


**********

From: Kathleen Brandsma / Saanich Police Department
Date: Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Karol Madera's E-mail To Me on 4/13/11
To: James Hiers

James;

Thank you for sending me everything you have. If you have any further contact with MADERA, it's important to you tell him clearly to not contact you, and document when you do so.

In the meantime, I have contacted Industry Canada in an effort to learn more about what it takes to revoke his license.

I will stay in touch with you.

**********

Subject: My interaction with Karol Madera on 4/09/11.
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 03:30:36 -0400
From: JAMES HIERS
To: Kathleen Brandsma/ Saanich Police Department

http://www.mediafire.com/?37bxpmhxxxxxxxx


Constable Brandsma,

Good evening and thank you much for taking my call. The above link is to my audio recording of Karol Madera's (VE7KFM) lewd and lacivious conduct on the air on April 9th, 2011. On this day, he advised he still wanted to know how large my daughter's "t*ts" were... Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions or comments. Thank you so VERY MUCH for all of your patience and understanding.

Sincerely,
James W. Hiers
Department Of Homeland Security
806-xxx-xxxx (work)
806-xxx-xxxx (cell)
Threat Assessment Counter-Terrorism Officer(TACT)
Collateral Duty Safety Officer

**********

 
RE: PITSWL -- Defending a child-luring sicko.  
by N8FVJ on March 4, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Try 6 meters. Install a good beam of at least 3 elements. Not too many band openings, but the hams are very professional and extremely serious about radio contacts. They will respect you as a ham.
 
RE: PITSWL -- Defending a child-luring sicko.  
by N1FM on March 4, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Agreed. 60 meters is also good, and 15 & 17 meters. And the CW and experimental digital modes are fun too. Basically, there's much more to ham radio than trouble spots on 20/40/80 in the Gen phone portions.
 
RE: PITSWILL -- Defending a child-luring sicko.  
by VK4FFAB on March 4, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Agreed. 60 meters is also good, and 15 & 17 meters."

I am a 15m fan boy. Most afternoons there is an opening to JA from my location, which means there is always someone to say hello to.

Also, there are a lot of QRP ops in JA, and being QRP myself i do get a kick out of working DX that is also low power. More often than not, this means CW and im down with that as well.

Can't say I have ever worked a bad station on 15m.
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K2DUV on March 4, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I have been continuously licensed as K2DUV since 1951 and I have observed the same change in on-the-air behavior. There were once taboos in the ham community against speaking about politics, religion, verbally attacking other hams, profanity and the like. As a young ham I feared the pink slip from the FCC or a notice from an Official Observer. CB came along with its profanity and slang and we used to say we were proud not to be like them. Now we are. The FCC dropped the code as a barrier to entrance and largely disappeared as an enforcer of rules. I think parents would think twice about exposing their youngsters to ham radio if they listened to 75M and more recently 40M. We need to clean up our act.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on March 5, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
@VK4FFAB: Also, there are a lot of QRP ops in JA, and being QRP myself I do get a kick out of working DX that is also low power. More often than not, this means CW and I'm down with that as well. Can't say I have ever worked a bad station on 15m.

@K2DUV: I think parents would think twice about exposing their youngsters to ham radio if they listened to 75M and more recently 40M.


Yup - I wouldn't let kids under 16 watch a lot of what's on TV, or use parts of the Internet, or listen to 20, 40, or 75 meters, without adult supervision. Before I owned large beams and big amps, I always liked 15 meters, because you could work DX on phone with a modest antenna, the ops were more polite than ops on 20 meters, and 15 is a very quiet band which is great for CW. It will be nice when the sunspots come back to visit again!
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 5, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I am just returning after being inactive since the early nineties. I am still putting my station together and being an invalid now. it seems a much larger job.

But this is a ham forum. SWLs may be here to learn but they don't have anything to ADD to a ham forum. Legally, they'never been on the air. However, this thread is about whats heard on the air.

I must say that even though I am an Extra since the early eighties I have never heard any profanity. I hang out around 3815 because that an old favorite frequency.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on March 5, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Renee KC3NG: "I must say that even though I am an Extra since the early eighties I have never heard any profanity. I hang out around 3815 because that an old favorite frequency."

Yup. I watch HBO, SHOWTIME, and other shows on TV that feature graphic violence, obscenity, and nudity. I also retired from work as a police detective after 20 years, so I'm not easily shocked.

You can hear profanity and indecency if you tune around a bit. More in the General portions of 75 and 40, and on one particular freq on 20 meters, you can hear disgusting obscenities coming out of Canada, almost every day, but it's easily avoided.



 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 5, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Yup. I watch HBO, SHOWTIME, and other shows on TV that feature graphic violence, obscenity, and nudity. I also retired from work as a police detective after 20 years, so I'm not easily shocked."

Im nearly 70 and thankfully still not married. BUT the above quote worries me. I have cable with HBO and and couldn't bother me less! When children remove their cloths they are naked (Gasp). So what? Which is about the way that MOST cable TV strikes me - remove late night cable from consideration because it is pretty horrible.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by N1FM on March 6, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
True Renee,

I don't watch much TV and honestly 'language' on the air doesn't bother me much if at all. If someone is spewing horrible obscenities I'll close my door and shake my head at the stupidity, or spin the knob. Prior to 2009, I might have sent in a complaint to the FCC, but they're pretty useless these days.

73

Tom
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KD0TDG on March 8, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with everybody (including those plowing over others just to get their numbers). Its annoying to hear Hams cussing and being vulgar...however, it is what it is; right, Wrong or indifferent. I personally don't like to hear it. Sometimes in conversation one may let it slip. I "cuss like a sailor" most of the day not because I'm a bad person but because of my everyday environment. Its an occupational hazard that tends to follow me home. But I don't do it with general public or talking on radio. That being said, I try to filter myself all the time but there are many times I end up using a "sentence enhancer" to stress my frustration, anger or dislike.(referring to general conversations off the air). For a lot of folks that is just their choice of vocabulary. It has ALMOST become an accepted form of modern vocab & speech. Kind of like Ebonics was in the 90's. If you know or meet up in person with the fellow "vulgar" Ham; guide them, suggest & encourage them to stop talking like that on the air. Doing it over the radio just turns folks into Frequency Warriors. If you don't know them all there is to do Don't cry - QSY

NKS
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on March 8, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
The End.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W3DCB on March 8, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Discussion on ham radio is nothing more than a refection of what is happening in society at large."
Agreed....Have you not seen what the lefties are doing all over the country? Burning cars; looting and destroying in the name of protesting; hurting and attacking those with whom they disagree politically; aligning themselves with Islamists who import not only their violent rape & honor killing culture with them, but also their anti-semitism; normalization of every odd pathological urge and behavior; strange bizarre behaviors are now in vogue as overpaid spoiled ball players and entertainers publicly display the most disrespectful behaviors on the ball field and stage as they presume to lecture those who provide them with opportunity and wealth yet contribute nothing of worth to society other than catching a ball or pretending for a living? I think they call it acting. Uncouth conversation on HF surprises you? Not me...
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
DCB,
Very well said, I agree with you 100%. There are way to many idiots among us today. I grew up in the 60s and 70s and never encountered the things that I see today or in the past 10 years or so. It is really to bad that this is happening and there isn't really anything that we can do about. It will just keep getting worse as time goes by. I just try and stay away from people like that in my life.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by ND8M on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
JT-65, PSK31, CW, and other digital modes are thankfully still mostly clear of this behavior. My theory is the republicans and democrats are too busy being angry at each other and blaming the other side for their own problems that they can't figure out how to operate a computer or CW paddle. Hopefully it stays that way.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
W3DCB,

Very well stated.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
W3DCB,

Your understanding of democracy is most minimal.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
NG ??????????????
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I would have said that to any reactionary/redneck/conservative who did not understand that at times like now, with a conservative A*hole like trump in office. Someone you know is here today. that would not have been were it not for the protests of the sixties.
Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W4HM on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
W3DCD I agree wholeheartedly with your post, it's right on the mark. Most every problem in our society nowadays can be traced back to mentally ill leftist ideas.

73,
Thomas W4HM
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
We have to live with conservatives who like rules rather than thinking things through. That's why they are called "reactionaries". But what confuses me is why your comments are on topic.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG
W3DCB,

Your understanding of democracy is most minimal.

Renee KC3NG"

Renee, we don't live in a Democracy. His understanding is correct but of course liberals want this country to be like other countries, like the ones the founders fought to NOT be like.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG - We have to live with conservatives who like rules rather than thinking things through. That's why they are called "reactionaries". But what confuses me is why your comments are on topic."

When I see Conservatives protesting, burning down property, hurting people, burning the flag and protesting everything that triggers everything you can use the term "reactionaries" which better describes liberal reactions to everything that triggers them, literally triggers them.

You are using alternate facts, a new liberal term for everything they don't agree with.


 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
NG must not be an American or at least not born here.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
OFF TOPIC and I was born here. The difference is that I think and have an identity.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG - OFF TOPIC and I was born here. The difference is that I think and have an identity.

Renee KC3NG"

Right, Conservatives don't think or have an identity, liberal would love to make law based on feelings, one of the reason why they can't stand rules or laws and why cities who harbor criminals want to bypass the law and still get federal money while doing so.

Conservatives believe in rules yes, we believe in laws as well. Feelings or perceived fairness don't govern a country, laws do. Which is funny because liberals and their liberal Republican cohorts love to create regulations out the wazoo and believe those should be followed....

Everybody thinks and has an identity as shocking as that may come off to you Renee. The difference is liberals have no tolerance for those who don't agree all the while screaming everybody else is intolerant.

Those protesters that are hurting people, property and going apeshit, are the Democrat party today and they resemble the fascists they claim to hate more than anybody else.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG - I would have said that to any reactionary/redneck/conservative who did not understand that at times like now, with a conservative A*hole like trump in office. Someone you know is here today. that would not have been were it not for the protests of the sixties.
Renee KC3NG"

Right, the loons of the 60's that are teaching the snowflakes of today. There were needed protests back then, for the rights of minorities etc.. but MLK was a Republican killed by who again, fill in the blank.

A*hole like Trump in office, other than the picnic organizer from Chicago who has sealed records, the most transparent President evah?

I'm not a Trump fan, however I would have voted for my wifes Chihuahua over Obama or the criminal Hillary.

"Reactionary/Redneck/Conservatives" brought us the right for women to vote, they ended slavery and they also fought for minority rights, the Democrats own Jim Crow, fought womens and Minority rights and you have the nads to come off as if Democrats are pure as the driven snow.

Look at every single Democrat run city, I can name many completely ruined by Democrat policies over 50 years of being the dominate party.

Give me one thing that has improved for the millions added to welfare, the millions no longer looking for jobs but hey, they cooked the books so who cares and how about the millions who lost their healthcare when the ACA was implemented.

I'll take Redneck/Conservatives any day of the week, the reactionary part the liberal Democrat party owns and you continue to own it along with all the sludge that goes with it.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 9, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Did you mumble something?

KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by VK4FFAB on March 10, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
YAWN. I think i just lost 10 IQ points reading the last few posts in this Epeen fest of who is more republican than the other republican.

 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KW2W on March 11, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
you can thank deregulation for this, and the dumbing down of the exams to get a license, seems we didnt have much of this sort of thing when we had the morse code, not to say that the code made good or bad hams, but it showed enforcement, that the f.c.c and others gave a darn about what happened on the bands...by requiring standards...and objectives..
every one is so worried about the dwindling numbers of young people entering ham radio ...so, they made the test's easyer .... thats a crock ... if some one wants something bad enough,they will do what it takes to get it ....
want better bands, then make the test's like they used to be in the 60's and 70's ... if some one has to ..pay.. a price for some thing, that gives them the incentive to take care of it

we need GOOD QUALITY PEOPLE IN HAM RADIO..... not crummy operators that come from rotten traning, dumb test's and mass influx of people,due to easy to get permits

if ham radio dies, blame your selves for not keeping up good standards and operating practices
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 11, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Here, here Eggsactly!!! I had an general in the early 60's. There has been a huge "dumbing down". I was a general because incentive licensing did not exist and we had all amateur privileges.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 11, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Here, here Eggsactly!!! I had an general in the early 60's. There has been a huge "dumbing down". I was a general because incentive licensing did not exist and we had all amateur privileges.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 11, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"No Code" is NOT our friend.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 12, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Renee is not our friend !
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KA4DPO on March 12, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I have heard every excuse in the book for the behavior of what appears to be a growing number of miscreants on 40 meters. The notion that this kind of behavior reflects our society is absurd.

Go out into your own community and walk into any restaurant, diner, or store and just listen. Do you hear people loudly hurling filth and racial slurs, spouting disgusting things about women, or denigrating other religious groups? I seriously doubt it unless you live in a mental facility.

The people who do this on the air are sick. They hide behind a microphone venting their frustration because there is something missing from their life or seriously is wrong with them, they are abnormal. Because our signals can be heard in other countries we are emissaries for the United States. We have a responsibility to project a thoughtful and purposeful image, not one of filth and debauchery.

I am ashamed that we as amateur radio operators, who pride ourselves on being so technically astute, can't find these stations and send their location and other necessary information to the FCC.

I am also very disappointed in the FCC for not taking a much tougher stand on this. They have the budget and the resources, they are simply turning a blind eye to the problem.

I urge every decent ham operator in this country to file a letter of complaint on the FCC website. That is at least a start, and beats making stupid excuses for doing nothing.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 12, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Renee is not our friend"

Am I friends with a troll SWL in a ham forum? Take a guess.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K6QQQ on March 12, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
If you don't think our beloved hobby is in decline, just listen to 3.908 MHz USB any Sun, Tue or Thu at 8pm Pacific time.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 12, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I really hope not ham troll.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 12, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
" I really hope not ham troll"

Let's talk about.

By virtue that I have and gave my Call means that people know who I am. You cannot say the same. You have been taking space as an individual woo will not identify himself. Why? Everyone else here has. This is a board for licensed ham radio operators. We have a demonstrated interest in the hobby. Do you? Apparently not enough to take a simple test. It makes no difference to us what you hear. Actually it does as an indicator of the condition of our bands. If you don't like it, you can turn the dial. Those are our licensed bands, we have to live with them - you don't. Why should we care about what you hear?

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 15, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG I had an general in the early 60's. There has been a huge "dumbing down". I was a general because incentive licensing did not exist and we had all amateur privileges.

Renee KC3NG"

Are people on welfare bad people for not having jobs? They must be going by your deranged logic.

Or, you're simply obtuse, that's the only reason somebody supposedly smart can be so stupid about why there are LIDS on the air after the magic code was removed, damn no coders! How dare they take the required exam and not force them to add code! They must be bad Amateurs, yep!

Blaming the lack of something in a test other than the moron who acts like a LID on the air, instead of looking at the person and blaming him/her is idiocy but you go girl, blame the lack of code.

Speaking of mumbling, come up with something new Renee, your message is stale and laughable.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 15, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"K6QQQ - If you don't think our beloved hobby is in decline, just listen to 3.908 MHz USB any Sun, Tue or Thu at 8pm Pacific time."

The reflection of our society for sure, do we blame the lack of code or the LIDS on those frequencies, many of which took code to pass their test.

Try 7200 during the day, talk about a cesspool, I'm sure all those people are post 2007 no coders. Ask Renee, she'll tell ya.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 15, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
KC9NRN.

When you can a.) Support you assertions and b.) Be civil. I'll respond to you.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 15, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG - KC9NRN.

When you can a.) Support you assertions and b.) Be civil. I'll respond to you.

Renee KC3NG"

Now that's funny, you think you're being civil. My assertions have been obvious.

1. Bad people have been around forever.

2. Taking away code has nothing to do with adding bad people.

3. People who took the test with code aren't good Amateurs simply because the FCC required code.

4. There are a lot of LIDS on the air today that have been licensed for decades. They didn't suddenly become LIDS after the code requirement was removed, they were that way for decades already.

5. For the last time, anybody who thinks removing code from an exam has anything to do with how they behave, is being purposefully obtuse but I repeat myself.

You are not the poster child for civil discourse and if you don't like what I'm saying, don't respond or trying using your own advice.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 15, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KA4DPO - I have heard every excuse in the book for the behavior of what appears to be a growing number of miscreants on 40 meters. The notion that this kind of behavior reflects our society is absurd."

- No disrespect but maybe you've been under a rock the pact 20 years or so. Turn the TV on and see how society is behaving in general, if it looks normal to you then I have no words.

"Go out into your own community and walk into any restaurant, diner, or store and just listen. Do you hear people loudly hurling filth and racial slurs, spouting disgusting things about women, or denigrating other religious groups? I seriously doubt it unless you live in a mental facility."

- Walk into any WalMart, KMart, restaurants (of course not all) and you will hear and see all sorts of things you rarely saw 20 years ago, walk into a city WalMart and just walk into the bathroom. Walk in a city, I have seen firsthand what Chicago has turned into over the past 5 decades.

"The people who do this on the air are sick. They hide behind a microphone venting their frustration because there is something missing from their life or seriously is wrong with them, they are abnormal. Because our signals can be heard in other countries we are emissaries for the United States. We have a responsibility to project a thoughtful and purposeful image, not one of filth and debauchery."

- Agreed and many of them have been doing this for a very long time. They coined the term LID a long time ago for very good reason.

"I am ashamed that we as amateur radio operators, who pride ourselves on being so technically astute, can't find these stations and send their location and other necessary information to the FCC.

I am also very disappointed in the FCC for not taking a much tougher stand on this. They have the budget and the resources, they are simply turning a blind eye to the problem.

I urge every decent ham operator in this country to file a letter of complaint on the FCC website. That is at least a start, and beats making stupid excuses for doing nothing."

- Agreed, I think one of the things that has changed a lot is the FCC. People do try to police the bands, having a responsive FCC would help but they no longer seem to be, agendas change and apparently the FCC has other things they consider more important which would make for an interesting list.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K4SSS on March 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Are you serious? I've been a ham for 50+ years and all the ham activities you speak of are a total detriment to the hobby! Talk about being brainwashed!
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K4SSS on March 16, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Sorry, but it's just the opposite, as it's you no-code entitlement libtards that are destroying the airwaves nowadays...
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 17, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
SSS-- WOW !! NO Coders are ruining your poor little hobby. I hope that you meet lots of no coders on the air every day for the rest of your life and everywhere you go.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 18, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
SWMAN,
I fail to see how your post added anything to this thread.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by AA3EJ on March 19, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I got around that problem years ago..have been a CW-only op for the past 45 years!, and made a lot of good friends. The heckling is just about gone now (except on 60m!). That's why I gave up SSB long ago!!..Try the CW mode, you might learn to like it!..73's Dave,aa3ej, CFO#1014
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"K4SSS - Sorry, but it's just the opposite, as it's you no-code entitlement libtards that are destroying the airwaves nowadays..."

No Code Amateurs are libtards??? How am I entitled and libtarded?

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried, what part of people have no control over whats on the test don't you people who as far as I know didn't ask for more things to be on your own test get?

Morse code doesn't make you a good Amateur, just somebody who can be an ahole using code.

This isn't a political issue, it's an issue of people looking for something to blame other than the people who act badly on the air.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG - SWMAN, I fail to see how your post added anything to this thread.

Renee KC3NG"

Says the judgmental person who has added nothing to this thread.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"AA3EJ - I got around that problem years ago..have been a CW-only op for the past 45 years!, and made a lot of good friends. The heckling is just about gone now (except on 60m!). That's why I gave up SSB long ago!!..Try the CW mode, you might learn to like it!..73's Dave,aa3ej, CFO#1014"

My wife learned Morse code in the Army 37 years ago and is going to be teaching me this summer. Hopefully I'm a good student.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Says the judgmental person who has added nothing to this thread."

Im not going to fall for that. I'm a very experienced ham and have been licensed far longer than you. How much I've added will rely on your pov and I'm afraid the pov you have expressed will put you and I at odds.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"This isn't a political issue, it's an issue of people looking for something to blame other than the people who act badly on the air. "

How about the person who breaks laws were to assume responsibility for having done so? {gasp}

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KB3WGE on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
That's why they put an on & off switch on electronic equipment.I'm glad I got my HF dx licks in back in '11 '12 Jan. '13 fixed station & Mobile Sept. '13 to Apr. '16. The HF bands are fairly lousy these days so everyone misbehaving won't be heard all that well...Hi Hi Ha Ha.I hope everyone remembers that the amateur radio operator is always (or supposed to be)kind,courteous & thoughtful of others... Fight the GOOD fight ALL,73's KB3WGE.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Ley me make a wild guess////

KC9NRN

You're a no code ham? And don't know the code and have never had a CW QSO?

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Quote- KC3NG - "Says the judgmental person who has added nothing to this thread."

Im not going to fall for that. I'm a very experienced ham and have been licensed far longer than you. How much I've added will rely on your pov and I'm afraid the pov you have expressed will put you and I at odds."

Captain Obvious has entered the building, yes I agree, your POV will definitely put us at odds.

I have been listening since the early 70's, I heard as many idiots being LIDS on the air back then as there are today, code was part of the test.

I blame people for how they behave, not the lack of code on a test which is patently ridiculous and that isn't POV, that's logic.



 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"
I have been listening since the early 70's"

That's a most impressive credential.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Quote - KC3NG, Ley me make a wild guess////

KC9NRN You're a no code ham? And don't know the code and have never had a CW QSO?

Renee KC3NG"

Why ask a question you know the answer to? You think that rubs in a negative or something? I took the required test required for May of 2008 holy toldeo he's a no code ham the sheer audacity!

You took the test required of you when you took the test 5 or 8 decades ago. Let me take a wild guess, you obviously learned much higher than the required at the time right? I did, I was going to take the General that same day, unfortunately it was full so I couldn't and why I haven't since, doesn't matter.

The fact you knew code doesn't mean you know it now (I could care less either way), it doesn't make you a good Amateur, it doesn't make you a good person, a bad person or even a civil person.

The fact I am willing to learn code only means something to me, I could care less what it means to you.

You folk who look down your noses at people who took the required test are part of the problem in this hobby.

The ARRL and the FCC etc... create the test requirements, people take the required test and instead of looking at them for a source of blame how about trying to push or challenge them to improve their skill-sets but nah they're a source for your blame. I could write down the calls for many of the LIDS I hear that once in a while give them and you'd be shocked at how many have been licensed as long as you have, but they're ok, they know CW.

Natch.



 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"
I have been listening since the early 70's"

That's a most impressive credential.

Renee KC3NG"

It wasn't meant as one jerkwad.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Dr.Dipole 20 meter dipole (awesome!) - RadioDaze 20m and 10m Dipoles (also awesome) - Buckmaster 6 band OCF Dipole (not so awesome) "

I have a Buckmaster. Too bad you aren't licensed to try them out below 10. 6 and 10 are not that antenna's cup of tea.

Renee KC3NG

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I also repair tube radios and I do plan on upgrading my license when I have more time to do so.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"It wasn't meant as one jerkwad. "

It must be so frustrating ....

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"It wasn't meant as one jerkwad. "

It must be so frustrating ....

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG "It wasn't meant as one jerkwad. "

It must be so frustrating ....

Renee KC3NG"

That people can be so frustrated over a test somebody took that didn't have the same requirement when they took it is laughable. That they think it somehow influences how they behave on the air says a boatload of how stupid people can be.

Dealing with no code Amateurs must be very frustrating... so single minded and obtuse but hey those that blame the lack of code own it! Go on with your bad selves. ;)
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG "Dr.Dipole 20 meter dipole (awesome!) - RadioDaze 20m and 10m Dipoles (also awesome) - Buckmaster 6 band OCF Dipole (not so awesome) "

I have a Buckmaster. Too bad you aren't licensed to try them out below 10. 6 and 10 are not that antenna's cup of tea.

Renee KC3NG"

You must be in the top floor of that apartment complex to be able to run that Buckmaster, they allow the full run in the attic or do you have to fit it all in the apartment?

Apparently you missed the part that you even posted that shows a 10m dipole, my license will be upgraded when I feel like doing so. So I'm not missing out on anything.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Actually. it's in the woods and I'm on the first floor.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG - Actually. it's in the woods and I'm on the first floor.

Renee KC3NG"

I saw that, must be frustrating not being able to use your license to it's full extent in a complex like that.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 21, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Bot in the least. Im on the low end of 75 as I always have been by preference. :)

Renee KC3NG
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KH6DC on March 22, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
You should listen during a rare DXpedition - profanity, "you're an idiot...", music, etc. welcome back to near CB behavior.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
We fave cb behavior because of "No Code". Ham radio is far closer to cb now,

Tenee LC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
" It is all the No Coders fault"that ham radio is the way it is today. I guess you haven't lived much in the real world now days have you to see how people act in real life not just on the radio. People who think that it is the no coders fault are a bunch of idiots and need to wake up a bit.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I have better things to do than engage SWLs on ham forms - even when it's nothing, after all I was a SW: in the fifth grade.
Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
WOW !!
 
Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC8YXA on March 23, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Out in 6 land there is a 2M repeater the 147.435 that is the same way. It looks like it is going on from DC to Daylight. That's why I stay on D-Star
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by K5NOK on March 25, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I'm tired of the code/no-code/cber/appliance operator argument.
There are no winners and getting new people in the hobby is the loser.
I'm tired of explaining to Millennials that ham radio is about technology and not about old men screaming "get off my lawn" to everybody younger than them.

Then one of these guys actually check out a ham web site only to see code and vacuum tubes exalted and themselves called cbers... to which they say "whatever" and go on to the (non ham) technology of the day.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 25, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
NO loss.

We had become small but swellimg in numbers has not helped at all.
Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG I have better things to do than engage SWLs on ham forms - even when it's nothing, after all I was a SW: in the fifth grade.
Renee KC3NG"

Being licensed since fifth grade means nothing, absolutely nothing with regards to how an Amateur behaves on the air.

Everybody has something better to do, not everybody thinks they are above the fray for saying so.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Quote - "K5NOK - I'm tired of the code/no-code/cber/appliance operator argument.
There are no winners and getting new people in the hobby is the loser.
I'm tired of explaining to Millennials that ham radio is about technology and not about old men screaming "get off my lawn" to everybody younger than them.

Then one of these guys actually check out a ham web site only to see code and vacuum tubes exalted and themselves called cbers... to which they say "whatever" and go on to the (non ham) technology of the day."
-------------

Well people like Renee are in big numbers, they have somebody to blame for things and they don't care about how many become Amateurs because being no-coders they are the problem anyway so less of them is preferred.

How this stupidity seems logical to those that have been licensed for so many decades says more about them than it says about those joining the "club" by getting their license.

I've seen far more positive things from no-coders than I have seen from the likes of those who blame them for everything wrong with the airwaves like those posting here do.

Renee keeps bragging about being licensed for so long and has done nothing to prove she is any better than those she complains about.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
NRN. You took the words right out of my mouth about Renee. Very well said. Sounds like she has a big chip on her shoulder or maybe something worse.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Well people like Renee are in big numbers, they have somebody to blame for things and they don't care about how many become Amateurs because being no-coders they are the problem anyway so less of them is preferred."

It has to do with levrl of funding of the FCC, I do kbow the problems werenimal before no code. With no ccode and the reduced monitoring the bands are in far worse shape.

"How this stupidity seems logical to those that have been licensed for so many decades says more about them than it says about those joining the "club" by getting their license. "

Does it? The bands were in reasonable shape before no code. "Joining the club?" Personally I don't really consider them hams. With code, our numbers were shrinking dangerously. So administrative steps were taken "to expand" the service.

"I've seen far more positive things from no-coders than I have seen from the likes of those who blame them for everything wrong with the airwaves like those posting here do."

That's a simple and stupid statement to make with no evidence to back it up.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Quote - KC3NG - It has to do with levrl of funding of the FCC, I do kbow the problems werenimal before no code. With no ccode and the reduced monitoring the bands are in far worse shape."

Frustrated Renee? Your typing is all over the place. State your source, if you're going to tell others to back up what they say, try setting an example. You can't because it's pure opinion nothing else, period. The problem is as is typical of people who make assertions with no backup is you expect others to do so but of course not you.

Quote - Does it? The bands were in reasonable shape before no code. "Joining the club?" Personally I don't really consider them hams. With code, our numbers were shrinking dangerously. So administrative steps were taken "to expand" the service."

Support that with something that can be substantiated which you can't. Of course you don't consider them Hams because YOU (and other code snobs) have determined they aren't, period.

Quote - That's a simple and stupid statement to make with no evidence to back it up.

Renee KC3NG"

Says the person making stupid assertions with nothing to back them up, thank you for helping make my points.

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"Frustrated Renee? Your typing is all over the place."

That's because I am an invalid and have to type with my left hand. However, I am frustrated at having to talk to "Gee, I wish I were a Ham."

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
"KC3NG - "Frustrated Renee? Your typing is all over the place."

That's because I am an invalid and have to type with my left hand. However, I am frustrated at having to talk to "Gee, I wish I were a Ham."

Renee KC3NG"

You're an invalid, not even going there.

Listen Renee, you judge people based on a test and lack of FCC funding (a few other weaksauce arguments as well) but have stated YOU don't consider no-coders Hams which invalidates every single argument you have tried unsuccessfully to make.

You don't back up your comments because opinion is just that, or perhaps you would have stepped up and provided some since you insist others do so.

Congrats on renewing on the 26th, you've got 10 more years of complaining.....

 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC9NRN on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Quote - Renee "Gee, I wish I were a Ham."

I am one and I am so pleased it perturbs you to no end that you and others as snobbish as you have no say in it.

Have a great day being miserable.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I do judge so-called hams who don't know the code. They aren't hams in my book. I had to work hard to get the code. "No code hams" have never had that experience. Suddenly I'm beginning to understand why I don't consider them hams.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
At first I was thinking that Renee was full of shi.t , now I know she is.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W6ADF on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with you. I'm a little late here in commenting but for my experience,80 is the shock band the rest like 40, 20 are only on occasion but not the norm. As for me, I have incredible QSO's with individuals from all walks of life; great guys out there.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by KC3NG on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Hi!

And welcome to what used to be a good conversation. Now the wannabes are just hurling stones. I didn't expect more.

Renee KC3NG
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by SWMAN on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
ADF. I like you picture album.
 
RE: Shocked at What I Hear on HF  
by W6ADF on March 27, 2017 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks, I appreciate that.
 
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