eHam.net - Amateur Radio (Ham Radio) Community

Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net



[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Name Calling and CB Radio

K. D. Bailey (KD5WIH) on September 13, 2003
View comments about this article!

It seems that whenever amateurs disagree, feelings get hurt and the discussion turns ugly; someone resorts to calling someone "a CBer" of says, "go back to the Chicken Band". Not only is this name calling counterproductive is just plain silly.

The Citizens Band radio service is not very similar to Amateur Radio. Like cell phones and FRS radio, CB uses RF to facilitate communications. That's were the similarity to ham radio ends. CB has not required a license for many years. When it did, no testing was involved. It requires no technical knowledge. When we equate ham radio with CB, we are minimizing our accomplishments.

There was a time when the frequencies in Citizens Band were part of the ham bands. When the FCC reassigned it to the new CB service, the animosity some hams felt towards CBers was understandable. Those days have long since passed and today's CBers are not responsible for the FCC's decision.

Criticism of the relative few CBers who illegally operate out of band or use linear amplifiers is justified. They are disregarding the law and are inconsiderate of the legal users of the bands into which they trespass. Only a small percentage of the thousands of CB radios are used this way.

Like a cell phone, CB can be useful. It's a good way for drivers to stay aware of road conditions. The equipment is inexpensive and it's very easy to operate.

If someone has a technical interest in radio, wants to chase DX or experiment with antennas, he would enjoy Amateur radio. If this person's first involvement with radio is with CB radio, we should encourage him to become a ham, not run him off with petty bickering. It's only by helping those with a real interest that we can insure we will have good operators instead of a bunch of lids who think name calling and arguing is acceptable behavior in amateur radio.

73 KD5WIH

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by N6TGK on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
"When it did, no testing was involved. It requires no technical knowledge. When we equate ham radio with CB, we are minimizing our accomplishments."

I'm sorry to say, but some here will say that we don't require any technical knowledge now to get into HAM radio. But I understand what you're saying. I don't know why people resort to name calling, simply because I or someone else has a differing opinion. I thought we had freedom of speech in this country. I realize the government is slowly taking that away, but then so are these people who resort to name calling just because I may not agree with what they had to say.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by WR8D on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Whats happening here is there's folks coming out of cb to get on amateur radio. This is just fine. The problem is there's hundreds of them that after getting on amateur radio they continue to talk and act like they did on cb. They use their cb handles and use 10 codes on our 2 meter machines and on hf freq's. We try to elmer these folks and sometimes get cussed out. They dont want to listen. Most will tell you they already know more about radio than you do. This is where the name calling comes in. Its not about this junk that i got my extra at 20 wpm and you got yours at 5wpm. A 20 wpm extra doesnt think he or she is "elite" as some of these nocoders say. We just want people to act like hams when they get on hf and 2 meters etc. There's lots of good folks that i know that have come off cb passed 5wpm and are great operators. Then again i also know of and have tried to elmer many that are just hardcore cbers. They dont want to fit in. The talk and act exactly as they did on cb. which is usually just filth and rudeness. This is what has the ham community torn in half. Lots of us have had first hand experiance with these types. Lots of you have not and for some reason those that have not just dont seem to believe the rest of us. This is not the land of milk and honey and when the code is gone all of us will be in for a rude awakening. It will take a while but sooner or later this filth will touch each and everyone of us that loves amateur radio.
73
John WR8D
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KC8JZO on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I think we should stop looking at all of those who are on CB as "horrible people" or such. Not all CB'ers are bad. Granted there are rotten apples in the bunch, but I think half of the time they don't know better. Most hams take the idea of CB'ers who are foul mouthed and using illegal amps, and apply it to everyone that's on that service. The rest of them are just doing their own thing. When it comes time for the CB user to advance to the ham bands, then it's our duty to Elmer them a bit. How are they going to learn the correct etiquettes, anyway? When they don't listen and go illegal, then it's the FCC's turn to sort them out (I hate to tattle on people . . . but you do what has to be done). Let's stop being so biased towards CB'ers . . . and maybe they'll stop looking at us as "elitests" or such.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K8NQC on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Being a ham was a badge of pride in the early days. It was a hobby shared with your school teacher, your physician, your father the tool maker and your paper boy. It was self-policed with respect. When CB came along with its many roughians and dirty signals, their image and interference gave radio in general a diminished image. Amateurs often were blamed for interference from the dirty, illegal CB equipment. There is no doubt that CB lowered the image of radio enthusists.

When many people who had used CB radio became hams, they were at first reluctantly welcomed into the amateur community. In time, most were fully welcomed as the new people needed to replenish the aging amateur population. Now, most are fully a part of amateur radio. Even the truckers have a good acceptance with most old-timers. As has been stated before, the only group not yet assimilated are those who make no effort to learn amateur operating habits and protocol. I think it is fair to say that those who started out in CB are now welcomed into amateur radio. CB habits, demeanor, overmodulation, and attitudes need to be left on 27 mHz.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K8DIT on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Back in the early 60s when CB was new I listened with an old National NC-88. I was a Novice in Cleveland, Ohio. So I was a ham and I knew that all you had to do was buy a transciever in order to get on CB. I was restricted to crystal control and transcievers in ham radio were still pretty rare. SSB was relatively new and only the sigs heard on the 11 meter band were AM.
When the band was open you could hear carriers colliding from far away and further away. When you could catch what others were saying, you mostly heard people speaking spanish or southerners who for whatever reason would let loose with expletives that made you think you had tuned in to a mental institution's version of the musical Oklahoma. Even the spanish speaking voices sounded desperately stressed and repetitive. Nothing I heard resembled communications between rational sounding people, and wondered why anyone would bother trying to communicate with the cacaphony of lost souls broadcasting their insanity to the world. Only rarely did I hear the call signs of users or the sound of persons trying to connect on this band. The noises on this band were like opening the basement door to listen to purgatory.
Only much later in the seventies after having left ham radio behind in '64 did I hear that CB had undergone something of a renaissance and was now the medium Hollywood made popular by the Burt Reynolds films. I was in remote Alaska where the CB band was used a country telephone system to catch up on news and assist in getting emergency medical aid in the bush. Great distances could be covered by this country style radio service where no real telephone system existed. I was not interested in ham radio again til '85 when I learned about the changes in testing and the entire demeanor of amateur radio had become more casual. Since I had been a Novice in '61 and passed the General exam in '62, my theory and code was already good enough to blast thru the new exams to extra. Ham radio had undergone many changes and was going thru its latest phase of radios from Japan making smaller, cheaper and more featureful rigs putting the American manufacturers out of business. The CB band still sounded nuts, but on medication. An improvement, but nothing I wanted/needed to participate in. I learned that it was the haven of many a radio afficionado frustrated by having unsuccessfully trying to learn the code, but loving radio so much as to tolerate the only band allowed their access. At this point I thought that some accommodation should be made by the FCC to give these folks better radio access, but by no means sharing the ham bands. The FCC and whatever wisdom of leadership had only the compromising of the higher standards of amateur radio to synthesize the CB service into a more popular culture, and hope technology would cure the ills and infractions of diluting one with the other. As hams are we able to tolerate this social engineering? Some hams are perfectly willing to allow this progression in the name of keeping amateur radio alive. We are after all able to do all the things we used to be able to do along with whatever new comes along. The dilution of
higher standards are a little uncomfortable, but as in the larger world around us, we can adapt and flourish.
We have technology and its challenge to make accomodation for all of us to count on as our salvation. The challenge of pursuing operating skills
becomes even more poignant with digital tools now available and the romance of ham radio can continue undiminished.
 
Stereotyping  
by WB4M on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Lets face it, CB radio and those who enjoy it are stereotyped as a bunch of drooling, ignorant rednecks. But, they have brought that on themselves by that hillbilly way of talking and related jargon. Have you listened to the truckers on Channel 19 lately? From what I hear on there, they come across as the most vulgar, crude, uneducated bunch of miserable folks that could ever be. This is what we don't want ham radio to become. That is why there is the animosity among the code/no-code debaters. We don't care if CB'ers become hams, but we do care when they bring their garbage with them, and the great majority of them do. If you enjoy both ham and CB radio, that is fine with me too, just leave your CB accent/filth/jargon on CB and don't bring it into ham radio.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Yes…….Rude behavior, vulgar language, and personal attacks can be unpleasant, and should not be tolerated. The trouble is, I personally have never received treatment on CB Channel 19 that is as bad as some I have seen here in these forums! Prove it to yourselves: go to any thread that is dealing with the “Code/No Code” issue and see for yourselves the level those “discussions” sink to.

If we tolerate that sort thing, where we allow anonymous individuals, using fake names and empty personal profiles, to flame anyone they please, who are we to lecture anyone else?

CB, like GMRS and FRS, is not “Amateur Radio”. It is simply “RF borne communications”. To hold those people who use those utilities to our operating standards is not realistic.

Now, if a person using CB, GMRS, or FRS discovers that they are really interested in the “nuts and bolts” of the utility they’re using, and they take the initiative to get a License, it is up to us to show them the right way. I believe that “policing our own” is one of our basic responsibilities.

Most people will respond to constructive criticism. If we encounter a Licensee who consistently refuses to follow operating requirements, it would be our very sad duty to file a complaint against that individual.

In closing, I have a couple of questions:

First, I have noticed that most Hams refer to the use of “10 Codes” in the same tone that most people say “Anchovy Pizza”: If I remember my radio history correctly, the standardized “10 Codes” were created to enhance brevity and readability in Police, Fire and Emergency transmissions. If you listen in, you will find that they are still in use in many departments. I don’t really understand; what part of the “10 Codes” origin or current official usage merits our disrespect?? More to the point,…. are you prepared to tell the nearest State Trooper that he’s an “Ignorant Cracker”, with bad operating habits?

Secondly; Can anyone suggest to me a Ham frequency where you can receive current road information, no matter where you happen to be, the way CB Ch19 does? Before we get too proud, high, and mighty, we need to remember that before you damn something, you need to be able to suggest an alternative.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by 2E1SDX on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
what many hams (not all) forget before they do the name calling is they themselves started off on 11m sbb or cb radio has you like to call it but they have very short memories, i for one started off on 11m ssb and then went in for my ham ticket and in the first year upgraded again to an intermidiate,now im just waiting to sit my full class A licence in december and attend a class every saturday all day studying with the help of my elmer G4CRT,if i need to know anything or want advise i can ask him,lewis G4CRT knew my background regarding 11m but he encouraged me to study and learn and be a better operator and now i have my main goal in sight after all my hard effort.. (CLASS A LICENCE)i am also doing very well learning code using the koch method, point is in amateur radio there are to many "im better than you guys" lets all encourage and elmer those who want to learn and progress to become a radio amateur regardless of there backgrounds.

jim.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W5UX on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I attended a luncheon the other with some local hams. As we socialized, we did not use ten codes. We did not use Q signals. We did not say roger. We simply had conversation. When we got into our autos and chatted on the local repeater, nothing changed. The Q signals were used for morse code transmissions. back in the seventies. The CBers broke the maximum power rule the chit chat rule and others. They did not stay in the assigned bands. They used vfos and ignored rules on working skip. Now they wonder why there is some disrespect from hams. Some people will say look at 80 meters. A very small group misbehaving. But the CBers were almost all doing something illegal.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by NUTONES on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
And, we have W0YR, K2QBV, W6FDR, K1UA and W2OT to blame. Congratulations guys, you have single-handedly desecrated the ham bands with your nonsensical filth and flagrant allegations.

Instead of drafting stupid petitions to the FCC, take a close examination of your own operating practices and ask yourselves how five grown men turn out this way.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KU4UV on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I grew up with C.B. radio as a kid in the late 70's and early, 80's. I think my experience as a kid with C.B. helped to spark my interest in radio and go on to become an Extra class licensed ham. I am 28 and I can remeber listening and talking on my dad's C.B. when I was only about 5 or 6. My twin brother is also an Extra class ham, and we used to talk to my dad on his way to work using our C.B. walkie-talkies. I got my ham ticket as a no-code when I turned 17 in 1992. I have since upgraded to Extra and I'm currently working on improving my CW speed and getting into code operating much more. I believe that if it weren't for my experiences growing up around C.B., I probably might not be a ham today. I also have a degree in Broadcasting, and have worked in both radio and Television broadcasting. My older brother dated a girl in high school whose dad was a ham. My brother knew I was interested in ham radio, so he took me to his girlfriend's house one day and I got to talk to her dad about ham radio. I don't knock anyone who comes to the ham from C.B. as long as they are a courteous operator. I would hate to see ham radio ever become like C.B. is today, but C.B. certainly helped me to become interested in becoming a ham operator.

73,
Mike Ku4uv
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W3LOW on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KU4UV:

Mike, we seem to have a lot in common. As with myself, got into 11 meters back in the early 80's. Talked on it for many years. Had about 5 to 8 regulars get in there every night. Back then we were able to keep out the 'riff-raff', keep it clean and always had a nice round table going. Most of the people that I used communicate with experimented with radio/electronics. Most moved to amateur radio but some, still to today, remain on 11 meters. Well, back in high school, while attending VO-TECH studying electronics for half a day, we had an adult student join our class. Guess what? Yep, he was a ham. He knew I was into 11 meters and always asked if amateur radio was interesting to me. Laughing, he left the technician class book on his bench, knowing it would be too irresistible for me not too look at.
After a couple weeks of casual reviewing, went down and passed the tech test. Since then, got my Extra Class in '94 and primarily work HF anymore.
So there you have it, living proof the ALL CB'ers are not loudmouths, bad or otherwise. Know of many "CB'ers" that have more knowledge/training/good operating practices, than most 'engineers' that I have worked with over the years.

73,

David
W3LOW
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K3UD on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
This goes back to the inception of CB in the late 40s.
The first CB band was at UHF around 460mHz. Equipment was expensive and unreliable. Range was short and most amaterus did not care that the FCC brought it about as the vast majority of hams thought UHF to be virtually useless to them. The ARRL, in an editorial by KB Warner fostered the idea that hams should have the same UHF privileges as the CB operators so that both groups could coordinate communications in an emergency situation. UHF CB, while used for business and personal communications mever really caught on because of the limitations and expense.

Fast forward to the late 50s. The FCC created Class D CB on 11 meters which was taken away from the amateur allocations and given over to CB spectrum. The FCC also published a stringent set of regulations as to the use of the 11 meters. For a while the FCC made a stab at enforcing the regulations, most of which are still on the books. (5 watts input, 5 minute contact periods with 5 minutes off between contacts, maximum 20 feet height for the antenna, a maximum range for communications, no "hobby" type communications permitted etc).

The reaction of hams at first was muted until some of them realized that the CBers had been granted what amounted to HF phone privileges without the traditional tests required for amateurs to get HF phone access. There were two classes of Amateur licenses (Novice and Technician) which required code and theory testing, but granted them no HF phone privileges.

All you needed to get on CB was to be 18 years or older, fill out the application that came with the radio and pony up the license fee. Many never did get licensed and made up their own call signs in the character of the call signs being issued in their areas.

In relatively short order, CBers began to "shoot skip" come up with "handles" instead of using callsigns, and mounting directional beam antennas on 50Ft towers, and began to use 50 to 1000 watt amplifiers. In short order CB clubs, QSL cards, and CB oriented magazines come into the marketplace. It was Ham radio lite without the testing.

Sometime in the 70s, the FCC just gave up and allowed CB to continue as an unregulated, outlaw pressence on HF. It is understandable that some amateurs would be disdainful of CB operations and do everything in their power to try and keep the "outlaw" type of CBer away from the ham bands, but in the end it did not work as freebanding came into vogue and some have even ventured into the 10 and 12 meter ham bands. Most CBers I am familiar with do not even know that such operation is illegal because the equipment needed to do it is availble to them at CB shops and truck stops. Outlawed amps are available on eBay for very little money.

What many hams feel about CBers amounts to a mixture of envy and resentment and disdain. The FCC created a monster they can not control by putting the service on HF. If they had kept it at UHF, we would not be posting to threads like this.

73
George
K3UD
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W5HTW on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
<<First, I have noticed that most Hams refer to the use of “10 Codes” in the same tone that most people say “Anchovy Pizza”: If I remember my radio history correctly, the standardized “10 Codes” were created to enhance brevity and readability in Police, Fire and Emergency transmissions. If you listen in, you will find that they are still in use in many departments. I don’t really understand; what part of the “10 Codes” origin or current official usage merits our disrespect?? More to the point,…. are you prepared to tell the nearest State Trooper that he’s an “Ignorant Cracker”, with bad operating habits?>>

I have no idea how that connects to ham radio. We aren't State Troopers, and we are not Police, Fire and Emergency (public safety) radio. The 10-codes were NOT invented by CBers but were adopted by them, as they played 'wannabe' cops. Amateurs did not adopt them because we were following international and military operating procedures, not police and fire ones. In the early days of CB, the 'training ground' for CB radio was watching "Highway Patrol" on TV, where anyone with a microphone said "10-4" as every third word.

Several here have said it succinctly. If you, as a CBer, want to become a ham, don't become a CB-ham. Be a ham, and leave the CB stuff for 27 MHZ. We don't even care if you still get on 27 MHZ and chat with your buddies, but when you are on the ham bands, behave like a ham. Drop the fake southern accent, the ten-codes, and the skip hollering, and be part of ham radio. Stop trying to convert ham radio into multiband CB. Pay attention, learn the real way it's done, and do it that way. Don't rewrite the rules (anymore.)

Don't mistake ham radio for CB. While it may be becoming more and more CB it still has a ways to go to be fully converted, and we'd like to delay that final transformation as long as we can.

We are not FM Broadcast, Commercial TV, Business Band radio, CB radio, FRS, MURS, GMRS, Public Safety, or any of a dozen other services. (Yes, "services" - that is how the FCC identifies them all) We are the Amateur Radio Service and we have our own rules, our own operating practices, our own reason for existing. We are not even cousins of CB, anymore than the cell phone is a cousin of Maritime Radio.

I do welcome CBers to our hobby, and have helped train a few of them in years past to become hams. But when they do, I want them to be hams. They should not be playing baseball using the rules of football. Play in OUR sandbox, and play it OUR way. When you go back and get on 27 MHZ (or in the Freeband - there is no such thing!) do it whatever way you want and can get away with.

But here, in the ham world, respect the hobby enough to be a part of it, not take a part out of it and convert it to something not recognizable. THAT'S what we dislike about CBers. They come not to join but to take over.

Some of that is our fault, for we are in that huge rush to recruit more hams, and once we shove them through the Q&A part, and they pass the test, we forget 'em and go for the next batch. No one bothers to tell them "Hey, here's how we operate." The loss of the Novice ticket as an entry route to ham radio is proving to be greater than we ever could have imagined. Making the Tech ticket the new entry ticket meant making CB radio the training ground. The habits learned there were transferred to 2 meters easily, and as the person upgrades, get carried over to 20 meters and 75 meters.

Now there is talk of a new entry level ticket. Does that mean someone made a mistake in getting rid of the old entry level ticket?? You damned well betcha.

Ed
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K2CAD on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
"They use their cb handles and use 10 codes on our 2 meter machines and on hf freq's."

This is where this whole debate gets me OK you have a problem with handles, I can understand this we have our own handles called call signs that we use. But what is really the big deal about 10 codes. It is proper radio procedure to use them. They were developed as a quick way to convey information over radio. They have much the same utility as the Q codes. Q codes were developed to convey something quickly via morse code. 10 codes were developed for voice communication. They are widely used by police, fire, and business band radio services. There is no reason if someone is using them properly that they should be chastised for it. Just because 10 codes were popularly used on CB does not mean that they are bad. They could be someone like myself who had used them on business band for many years before becoming a licensed amateur operator.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
This appeared in a previous post:

>>>” If you, as a CBer, want to become a ham, don't become a CB-ham. Be a ham, and leave the CB stuff for 27 MHZ. We don't even care if you still get on 27 MHZ and chat with your buddies, but when you are on the ham bands, behave like a ham. Drop the fake southern accent, the ten-codes, and the skip hollering, and be part of ham radio. Stop trying to convert ham radio into multiband CB. Pay attention, learn the real way it's done, and do it that way. Don't rewrite the rules (anymore.)”<<<<

Hmmmm…….All I did was make an historical observation, ask a couple of questions, and comment that I do occasionally use the Children’s Band for Road information. Instantly, I’ve been lumped into the “CB group”, and I find myself receiving the Standard Condescending Lecture.

What do the following statements have in common?

1) All Blacks are lazy.
2) All Mexicans are thieves.
3) All Asians are inscrutable.
4) All American Indians are alcoholics.
5) All Arabs are terrorists.
6) All Cbers are illiterate slobs with no regard for the law.

ANSWER: They are all examples of bigotry. If you can’t deal with people without grouping them into categories, you have a serious personal issue. You should seek help.

To the author of the segment I quoted: …..I have a License, I observe proper procedure, and all regulations when on the air. (Both on the Ham Bands, and on 27 MHZ.) You never did answer my questions.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KR4XH on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do"...

"When on Ham Radio, do as the Hams SHOULD do!"

Seems like a pretty simple concept to me.

At least that was the way I was taught to act on the air...


73


don KR4XH
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KF4ZAB on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
HELLO JOHN,, WELL, OUT OF MOST ALL OF THESE ARTICLES, YOURS MAKES THE MOST SENCE, IN MY OPINION !! HAVE BEEN IN HAM RADIO SINCE 1957 - NOT WITH THIS CALLSIGN - HAD A W2 WHEN LIVING IN N.J. NOW IN N.C. ANYHOW,, YOU HAVE PRETTY MUCH ''HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD'' WITH YOUR COMMENTS.. THIS IS WHERE I FEAR THE REPROCUSSIONS IN THIS HOBBY, IF THE FCC DECIDES TO ELIMINATE THE CODE REQUIREMENTS.. I CAN SEE A SLOW DETERIOATION COMING WTHIN THESE RANKS.. THE INCENTIVE AND THE MOTIVE TO MOVE UP TO A BETTER LIFE, SO TO SPEAK, WILL BE GONE AND WILL ATTRACT A MULTITUDE OF UNDERSIRABLES.. OK JOHN, I WILL VOTE TO KEEP THE CODE REQUIREMENTS, FOR SURE. I THINK IT'S AN INTEGRAL PART OF HAM RADIO.. 73's PAUL PERKERT ~ KF4ZAB
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by AE6IP on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
It is due to intellectual snobbery, out of date stereotypes, and intellectual laziness.

It is good that few hams suffer from the problem.

It's sad that they are so vocal.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by NA4IT on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Well, This is an amazing thread.

So I guess I'll put 2 cents in:

I grew up as a CB'er. I bought my first one with 1/2 dollars I had saved. 23 channels and a power mic. I talked with several older men (at least older than me) and we talked normally, with out to 10-4's or anything else. We just talked and had a good time.

Then in 1976, I decided I wanted to become a ham. I was 16. Got that novice ticket. WD4AXH. Scored perfect on the code. Got a little Heathlit CW QRP transmitter and recieved on a Realistic DX-160. (Talk about poor!) Then, I went to college. That was at a time when you could have your novice ticket for 2 years then you had to upgrade or loose it. Guess what! Lost it...

Well, I went back to CB. Just wasn't the same as the "old" days. Used one in an 18 wheeler I drove for 5 1/2 years. Still not the same.

Kinda dumped CB when I quit trucking. Too noisy and too much language on 19. Most of the other channels were OK. Just not interested.

Move forward to today. Got back into ham radio a few years ago due to interest in Skywarn. And I made a few mistakes. One was asking someone what their handle was. Luckly, a ham befriended me and didn't chew my rump, but politely told me that asking for the "handle" wasn't appropriate on ham radio. So now I just ask for their name. And I really do enjoy ham radio. (Oh yea, I am a LOW CODE AMATEUR EXTRA AND PROUD OF IT!)

I still use CB a little when I am mobile. Might see one of the old folks I used to talk to years ago and give them a yell. And most of the time, I forget and don't say "10-4", and I'll forget and sign out with my ham radio callsign. Guess what? Everyone gets a laugh, and no one chews my rump.

I guess what i am trying to say is:

"A little kindness goes a long way."

Works a lot better than:

"Let's kill the wounded!"

Oh well, guess that's a dollars worth, but you can keep the change!
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KA3RFE on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
CB has its place and has its own culture. So what if there are idiots doing stupid things on that band? Why should it concern hams? This mindless animosity towards CB and CBers is ridiculous. I'd bet that most of the hams who are complaining have never even listened to the band! They're repeating something someone else said ten years ago or something. And before anyone chews my head off, I'm defining CBers as those who are sticking within their band and operating legally. Out of band and overpowered operators are PIRATES!!! and not CBers.

I have found it much easier to get directions and traffic conditions on CB than on any ham band, even on the national calling frequency. Our state police monitor CB channel 9 and I know I can get help almost immediately if i needed it on the road. I can't depend on anyone monitoring the local repeater and the repeater autopatch is not available to non-members of the sponsoring club.

And I'd bet that there are many CBers who have radios in their vehicles for safety purposes only.

Live and let live.

73, Pete KA3RFE / KEN1621
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by CWTITAN on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
CBers are horrible. Most are low life. Most who get hams tickets remain the same. Most CBers were trained by mentors to BREAK THE LAW with illegal equipment. They swear(if you hear swearing on ham bands, its probably a exCBer. )The use illegal frequencies with illegal equipment. IF THE TRUTH HURTS, I'M NOT SORRY.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KG4YJR on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
It just shows the bitterness that consumes the self-righteous low-lifes who have made themselves feel important but only in their own minds. They themselves tend to be society's doormats and rejects. They despise anyone who is enjoying life more than them. CB'ers like to have fun still and a lot of people can't stand that. Let's here it for those poor, hateful, lonely and self-righteous that claim to be the ambassadors and promoters of ham radio and the great ham lifestyle.

Loving life and my wife, 73
Dave
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by WR8D on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
RE KB9YZL: As a matter of fact if a state trooper gets on my 2 meter machine and uses 10 codes i will let him know about it. Infact i have a few buddies that work for the county and have had to remind one or two of them that they were on the hambands not the county owned repeater for ambulance and police. 10 codes are fine for those professional folks on "their" bands. "NOT FOR THE HAMBANDS"...We never did hear such trash untill 2 years ago when the code was dropped to 5wpm and this first batch of folks came at us. So if it smells like a cber and talks like a cber even if its in the middle of our extra class portion of any band...well its a stupid cber.
Who in their right mind wants to hear this crap on the hambands along with cb handles...and like i said it has nothing at all to do with professional folks like ambulance drivers and police etc that use those codes on their own bands and freq's.

73
John WR8D
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W5UX on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
We don't use 10 codes or Q signals or roger when talking on the telephone, so why use them on the radio?
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W3JJH on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Sure, we don't talk the same way on the radio as we do on the telephone. It's a different communications environment. Last night, during the WAE contest, I was working German stations on 80 m that were coming in at about S 0.5. We had to use highly stylized radio procedure in order to get our exchanges through. If my telephone had a similar signal-to-noise ratio, I'd stop paying Verizon and get another carrier.

We don't use 10 codes on amateur radio as a matter of heritage and style. Saying "10-4" on the ham bands is the same sort of faux pas as using "ain't" in English class.

We use a few Q-signals as on phone because they are part of our heritage and style. They're our own slang.

We use ROGER and other prowords, because a generation of hams were trained as military radio operators, and that style of operation they learned has stuck.

Personally, I prefer to use the ICAO and NATO radio prowords such as ROGER, OVER, SAY AGAIN, WAIT, and OUT. They are readily understood by non-English speaking hams. ROGER, by the way, is an old phonetic for "R" (as in the Morse prosign).
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by N5KBP on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I wasn't going to join this free for all and give my CB to Ham story for all to snicker and laugh at my grammar and spelling until I reached the bottom and read this no brain idiot of a post from the mental giant who calls himself CWTITAN (notice not a call sign)

Posted by CWTITAN:
>>>CBers are horrible. Most are low life. Most who get hams tickets remain the same. Most CBers were trained by mentors to BREAK THE LAW with illegal equipment. They swear(if you hear swearing on ham bands, its probably a exCBer. )The use illegal frequencies with illegal equipment. IF THE TRUTH HURTS, I'M NOT SORRY.
<<<<

Directed to the moron CWTITAN:
Tell us what you REALLY think CWTITAN :-( BTW Why do you hide behind a "Handle" like the CBers you so despise.

Directed to the more intelligent readers of this forum:
The bad part about it is there are more of him out there. The only light at the end of the tunnel is that most of his type are self segregated to 75 and 20 meter bands. No slight to all the users of those bands intended (I'm on them both daily) just intended for those guys we all know and love :^).

Readers digest version of my story:
Got hooked on cb at 15 by a cber cousin. Got novice license at 25 (KB5AXT). Got Tech license 6 months later (N5KBP). Got Advanced license at 26. Been hamming for 17 years and I have never used 10 codes, profanity, illigal power or been out of band. I can troubleshoot and fix just about any peice of consumer electronics you might have including your YASUKENICOM rig. Can you say that CWTITAN? I doubt it. From your moronic post I'm figuring your an appliance operater who can do 50 wpm cw but can't carry on a civil conservation using the english language let alone fix a TS-440 that has the vco unlock problem.

Well I've vented enough. Sorry for taking up so much bandwidth but CWTITAN's post just pissed me off. But I do feel better:^)

73's
Marty
N5KBP



 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
This was seen in a previous post:

>>>”RE KB9YZL: As a matter of fact if a state trooper gets on my 2 meter machine and uses 10 codes i will let him know about it. Infact i have a few buddies that work for the county and have had to remind one or two of them that they were on the hambands not the county owned repeater for ambulance and police. 10 codes are fine for those professional folks on "their" bands. "NOT FOR THE HAMBANDS"...We never did hear such trash untill 2 years ago when the code was dropped to 5wpm and this first batch of folks came at us. So if it smells like a cber and talks like a cber even if its in the middle of our extra class portion of any band...well its a stupid cber.”<<<



So…………, what you’re saying is that if one of these people, who are used to the syntax of another Band, make the mistake of using their established protocol on one of the Sacred Ham Bands, you reserve the right to ridicule or flame them? Shame on you!

Where on your Ham License does it authorize you to look down on the people who put their lives on the line to protect your life and property? Try a little tolerance….In the long run, you’ll feel a lot better about yourself.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Oh yeah.............Marty, I know how you feel.

73

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K4JF on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Just remember. CB is designed for personal (aka family) and small business use. Therefore 99.9% of CB operation is illegal. It's as simple as that: if you're not talking to family or your business on CB, you are illegal.

We hams prefer to stay legal. And that's the main difference. And, yes, I used CB back in the early 60s, when I could easily talk to my Dad 30 miles away on a perfectly legal Sonar radio. It has really gone downhill since then.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by WR8D on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Kent you're just not getting it are you. I have close friends that are state police and county police. Get your head out of your rear i'm not downing these folks at all. They are my very close friends..i'm saying 10-4 is pure cb crap and its not to be used on the hambands...Can you get this through your thick head and not try to twist what i'm saying. Cb handles and 10-4 are not to be heard on amateur radio...but you will hear this on certain freq's and some 2 meter repeaters because some of these hardcore cbers now have a ham ticket. And yes being the owner of a 2 meter machine gives me the damn right to control what is going on . Police officers sometimes mess up but immediately catch themselves because radio is a part of their life and they have to use 10 codes. Most have a 2 meter rig right in their police cars. Some will even say they are sorry for making a mistake and picking up the wrong mic and let out a big 10-4. Some of these hardcore cbers will do it just to tick some of the hams off. "READ THE PRINT AND DONT TRY TO TWIST MY MEANING". There's plenty of room here for you to voice your opinions without trying to twist what i've said. If the code is dropped thousands of hardcore filthy mouthed cb types will come to the hambands...now how are you going to twist that opinion of mine and hundreds more like me up??

73
John WR8D
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by WR8D on September 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Kent i just checked back into the thread and you're one of those types that like to quote folks and screw around with what they've said...i guess there must be something in the water there where you live. Is the sewer output running close to the water well there where you're at?
Just thought i'd ask.
Quote that!
John WR8D:
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by RobertKoernerExAE7G on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Congrats on getting your ticket 4 months ago.

Thank you for tell us all about CB and ham radio.

Thank you for telling us all how to behave and act.

You might ponder if the internet IS ham radio.

How many times have you been on HF where you have heard hams calling other hams Cbers?
Was this on CW, SSB, AM, FM, RTTY, PSK or SST?
Was it non US hams calling US ham Cbers?
US hams calling non US hams Cbers?
Non US hams calling other non US hams Cbers?

Do this happen when a ham acts or talks like a Cber?

Could this have been hams calling Cbers on 10 meters, Cbers?

Ex-KBJ8532, currently AE7G

PS: As a ham, I’ve been through two complete sunspot cycles, headed through my third, and have never called another ham a Cber. Can’t ever recall hearing one ham call another a Cber.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KD5YDY on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Where in Part 97 does it say that 10 codes can't be used on the ham bands? As far as I'm concerned the Q codes are just as bad when used on ham bands in phone mode. The FCC said show proficiency of "plain English" code messages, then they fill the text with Q codes which are by no way "plain english". If you didn't get a Gordon West tape or have a ham explain what QSO, QRP, QTH, QSL, etc. meant, you couldn't pass the morse exam questions even with perfect code copy. (Now that 1 minute perfect copy--25 characters perfect in a row counts), you can pass the morse proficiency and still be clueless about what the message really said.

Why not drop the Q codes on phone band as well if you're going to forbid 10 codes? Q codes were meant for code and really have no place in phone. I would not object to a police ham using 10 codes on 2 meter repeater. The 10 codes have been widely distributed and well-known in many official public services. So what's the big deal about banning them from the ham bands? And under what official law or regulation?
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by N8VB on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
WR8D:

If CW testing is dropped I doubt we would even see a 10% increase in newly licensed hams. The 10% will soon drop to 1% after running into elitist snob Hams like yourself.

If you don't like that certain people use cb type lingo on 2 meters then don't talk to those individuals. But who are you to dictate what lingo people should use as long as they are not using profanity and are operating within the rules?

A few bad Cbers does not make all CBers bad. Shall I conclude by listening to the foul language and poor operating practices of operators on 75 meters, many who have been licensed for years (before the so called "dumbing down" of ham radio) and over the age of 60, that all hams are low life foul mouths? You have used the same logic to paint all Cbers that way.

N8VB
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KC8VWM on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
"
Have you listened to the truckers on Channel 19 lately? From what I hear on there, they come across as the most vulgar, crude, uneducated bunch of miserable folks that could ever be. This is what we don't want ham radio to become."

Have you ever wondered why they are employed then as "Truck Drivers" and not Corporate Executives?

If the mentallity is as you describe, I would think it would be highly unlikely they would be so motivated to carry this over to ham radio. After all, they didn't seem motivated enough to become Corporate Executives, so what has changed in terms of becoming a member of the Amateur Radio Community?

I think if a person becomes interested in amateur Radio, then they must make the initiative to study, learn and become "respectable" in the Amateur Radio community or no one will be talk to them.

Let's face it, if there is a fould mouthed individual on the air, Do you think anyone is actually going to talk to them on Amateur Radio?

This isn't about CB'ers, it is about peoples behaviour. It doesn't matter if they have a CB prior to becoming a ham or not.

Why do we hear the great CB operator debate, but yet, we never hear about foul mouthed street gang members becoming Amateur Radio operators? What's being done about that?


KC8VWM
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KC8VWM on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Someone said:

"Just remember. CB is designed for personal (aka family) and small business use. Therefore 99.9% of CB operation is illegal. It's as simple as that: if you're not talking to family or your business on CB, you are illegal.

We hams prefer to stay legal. And that's the main dfference."

So when we are not using our ham radio equipment for the purpose of providing emergency comuunication, then are we operating illegal?

Let's take a look at the purpose of Amateur Radio from an FCC definition standpoint. So, now who is "legal"?

KC8VWM
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KD5WIH on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Yes AE7G, I have had my ticket a whole 4 months. I'm certainly not an expert on amateur radio, but I have been interested in electronics and radio communication for a long time and know more that you seem to assume I know. CB radio was never an interest of mine, but I know several good operators who came from that background.

I am sorry you took my post as you apparently did. If you reread it, I hope you will get my point. I am not criticizing amateur radio as whole, but if you look at the posts on the eham and qrz.com forums, you will see a lot of name calling from a few vocal posters. I have not heard this name-calling on any of the HF bands. My point is that this in counter productive and turns off many who might be interested in amateur radio. I see by your eham profile that you became interested in amateur radio by the way of CB and you are now a serious ham. Had you seen some of these name-calling posts of the internet, would you have felt welcome in the hobby?

73
KD5WIH
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by N8VB on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
K4JF:

"Just remember. CB is designed for personal (aka family) and small business use. Therefore 99.9% of CB operation is illegal. It's as simple as that: if you're not talking to family or your business on CB, you are illegal."

Where specifically does it say in Part 95 that you can only talk to family members on your CB? Do you misread Part 97 in the same way?

N8VB
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KD5YTO on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Well folks, having been around various radio's my whole life. I can tell you that CB is another radio I have in my truck. Along with 800 for official communications and the 2 meter radio for my entry level into ham. previously have worked as a truck driver. Yeah one of those guys. However ! like in times of emergency can be a life saver.
My Truck ( Full size Bronco ) has more antennias (6) at last count. Grabbing for a mike in a hurry can be fun. There is room for all of the above. All have specific functions and all are unique. Like the various types of ham communications. As i study to upgrade my licence, i want to enjoy more of the things that are out there. At 41 studied code for 3 weeks and passed the test. its off to the next stages. My 800 Radio has its short comings. Cant hit the repeter cant make contact. Thus we have the high band, the low band, the 2 meter, and the 11 meter or CB. All of which can be very valuable. Along with cell phones. While Searching for a trafic accident at 2:30 am, the CB was one of the best ways to narrow down the search. Whos out at that time. Travelers and Truckers. Who usually will be glad to help with information. In severe weather, storm spotting or chasing Severe Storms.( Tornado's ect. ) one of the best means of communication is the new to me two meter. More hams on battery packs than one would of ever known. Also willing to help. When the power goes out the Hams are pretty resourcefull. I got my ticket just to have that information first hand. Why wait for the relay. Now since i am being shown more or (Elmered) as the saying goes. I want more. Either that or they just want to see how many antennia's I will add to the truck. One can go to a local CB shop and by a 200 watt CB with extra channels. or 10 meter set up. They are quite nice. only 200 to 400 bucks. Legal ??? there in lots of Big Trucks. Not mine. so there has become the blur again. It's even tougher to hit a moving target. You do have those guys running 1500 plus watts out there on the open road. yeah even on 11 meters. But most of the time the drivers have the squelch up so high unless your right next to them. they probably wont bother you or hear you. there is lots of static on 11 meters. Now get into jammed traffic conditions and you will hear the drivers mad as heck at those of us in 4 wheelers. ( meaning )small cars and trucks. mostly for cutting them off. Seems since the truck take a little longer to get going turn and slow down the feelings of those in more agile mode of transportation feel its ok to use that 7 feet of space just cause one can squeeze in. yeah not much in manners at those times from most of the public. How many different ways can i go in one posting.?? Sorry folks. Guess what i am saying is that there are plenty of bandwidth out there for 11 meter, code and ssb just to name a very few. there are radios for those ten codes. which save time. some times its a life saver and there is no mistake at what your trying to get across. kind of like calling out CQ or ending with 73s and then the infamous de. some where near the start. so for all of us who have many interests. I guess I will end this long winded posting by saying its late. So i will be going 10-7 for the night. so --... ...-- gotta go walk the dog. And ask this in closing. Who have you helped today?
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by RobertKoernerExAE7G on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
"Had you seen some of these name-calling posts of the internet, would you have felt welcome in the hobby?"

I became a ham because I wanted to.
I worked many weeks to pass my Novice test; the same for General.
I didn't expect anybody to welcome me.
I wouldn't have cared if anybody called me a CBer, I was one!
While I was a Novice, I would talk via CB with other Novices about ham radio, and set up SKEDS to practicise CW with them on 10 meters. We all used our 11 meter antennas.
I worked had to "fit in", to learn ham culture.
I don't care if anyone calls me a CBer now.
I didn't become a ham to please other hams.
I didn't become a ham to change ham radio, or argue if CB jargon should be used in ham radio.
I wanted to escape CB radio.

Many hams don't last a full sunspot cycle. Many don't make it throught the sunspot minima.

One full sunspot cycle seems to be solid experience.

Have FUN

73
Bob, AE7G
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
John;

I don't believe that anything was "twisted" in interpretation. Your meaning was quite clear.

And now, since I don't rise to personal attacks and insults, I'll just say: "Have a nice day!"

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
A comment made in a previous post brought a question to mind, and while it’s a bit off topic, this thread has probably concentrated a good cross section of the people equipped to answer it…… So I’ll Ask it.

First, let me state clearly that this is a HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION! I do not plan to pursue this in reality, nor do I advocate that others consider pursuing it. My field is Mechanical Engineering, not Electrical, and I am genuinely curious.

Secondly, this is a technical question, not a legal one. Please don’t respond with “Because it’s ILLEGAL!” I know that………..I want to know the technical reasons for it’s illegality.

THE SETUP:…….John Doe has one of the newer All Band mobiles in his vehicle (an Icom IC-706 MKIIG, for example). He bought that radio because he wanted to be able to work all the bands between 440 mhz and 80 meters. One day, John decides that he would like to be able to access the 11 meter band also, but he doesn’t want a second radio cluttering up his dashboard. He solves this dilemma by having his 706 modified AND carefully tuned by a competent technician.

MY QUESTION IS THIS:….. If John always observes the power restrictions demanded by 11 meters, what technical problems would his operation cause? What are the technical reasons for this being illegal?

Again, I’m sorry for being off topic, but since we already have people trying to make this into another “Code/No Code” thread, I don’t feel that I’m too far into left field.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KE1MB on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
WR8D wrote: " A 20 wpm extra doesnt think he or she is "elite" as some of these nocoders say."....I am sure this is the case for most. But who would not think that if all they saw of them were the nasty and pointless statmemts stemming from bitter feeling and spewed out onto a "fearless" platform, such as eHam.

I am glad to see someone write this kind of artical because it address's a problem in attitude sometimes displayed in the replys.

I am not directing this at WR8D. He simply wrote something that helped me make a point.

 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KA3RFE on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
K4JF:

I have carefully read Part 95 I and see no mention that communications are limited to family and business. No mention at all. If you're going to make comments on the rules, perhaps you should READ them first.

Pete KA3RFE
 
A question for you Kent.  
by WB4M on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Who modified your 706 for you?? :) Just teasing...
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KD5WIH on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Kent KB9YZL,

The only technical reason one can't modify a ham rig to cover the CB band is that CB radios must be type accepted to be legal. I am sure it's been done, but it's not legal. I have also seen 2 meter radios modified to cover VHF marine frequencies. They would be handy for hams to have in their boats, but it's also illegal. Same reason.
73
KD5WIH
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KA3RFE on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KB9YZL:

The FCC requires that any radio equipment made for any band must be type-accepted for use in that band. Modified radios are never type-accepted and thus are not legal to use anywhere. The only exception is in ham radio. Hams may modify commercial radios for use on the ham bands but may not modify ham gear for use out of band as it has no type-acceptance from the FCC.

73, Pete KA3RFE
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K4JF on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Following is a DIRECT cut and paste from the FCC website:
______________________________________________________
CB is one of the Citizens Band Radio Services. It is a two-way voice communication service for use in your personal and business activities.
______________________________________________________
"personal and business activities" being the operative words. Nowhere does it say "hobby" which is the vast majority of usage today. Suggest reading before accusing others of NOT reading.
CB was a great service in the 60s. I have used it as late as 2 years ago (to communicate with my fleet drivers before retiring as a safety director). The language and terrible attitude of the majority of operators is what we wish to avoid on Amateur frequencies. Yes, it is still the best way to get highway information if within 1/2 mile of the problem - if you can stand the offensive language. Personally, I don't have to listen to such, so I removed the radio from my car.

Yes, I came from CB to ham. I grew up (radio-wise) 28 years ago, and extend a WELCOME to those who wish to do so today.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W5HTW on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Re ham gear on 11 meters.

The reasons are fairly simple, when you think about it. The Citizens' Radio Service (CB) was set up to allow non-technical persons and small businesses to use a radio for personal and business communication. Like with the Business Band radios in VHF and UHF, the user is not expected to know how to adjust modulation, set audio levels, check for spurious radiation, RFI, etc. He has to rely upon a licensed and certified technician, with suitable test equipment, to do that for him.

To prevent the CB user from splattering, interfering, etc., the FCC set Type Acceptance guidelines for CB radio, including modulation limits, RF output limits and frequency tolerance, as well as reliability in maintaining those parameters. The CBer was not to get into the radio and make adjustments. (Yeah, it quickly became a joke, but that's why the rules were written that way.)

On the other hand, hams were individuals who had (back then) some technical skills. We were expected to know how to adjust those parameters, and to keep the radio operating correctly, avoid interference, and avoid over modulating, among other things. We were therefore given more freedom to have radios with front panel microphone and modulation controls, VFOs, and power adjustments. We had proved we had the responsibility to handle this freedom.

We had no specific frequency, and therefore no specific frequency tolerance, except to stay within the band limits.

Radios designed specifically for ham radio do not have to meet those more stringent criteria, such as power output, frequency stability and modulation levels. Instead, we, the operators, are given the responsibility of making sure the radio operates correctly.

Well, perhaps we could do that on 11 meters, too. But the rules say, because of the way the Citizens' Radio Service is designed, like police, fire and emergency, radios that operate on that frequency must comply with the criteria.

It is, of course, a joke. A good many CBers are running Icoms, Kenwoods, Collins, Drakes, Johnsons, Yaesus, etc, all of them illegal unless specifically meant for 11 meters, and unless having been certified for that use.

I see in the very near future we will be (in fact, some already are) putting ham HTs on public safety frequencies, aviation, business band, etc., without any idea of the kind of certification required, or the harm that can be caused. The attitudes that have permeated ham radio in the past ten years are leaning more and more toward "the hell with the rules, let's do it my way." That trend will continue expanding, until something blows apart. That could result in really serious damage to ham radio, starting with the banning of amplifiers of any kind on any band, making the manufacture or importing of them illegal. It could progress until we are all limited to 20 watts RF output, on channelized frequencies.

Or, until we are limited to cell phones.


Ed
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W5HTW on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Under the original CB rules, a family or business was permitted to have up to a maximum of eight units, to be identified by a call sign, followed by the Unit designation number. For example, "KGG1234 Base" Or "KGG1234 Unit 4"

Communication was permitted ONLY within those eight units. Communication with units of other stations was actually prohibited! Didn't matter if it was the lady next door!

In addition, communication over 150 miles was prohibited, even if it was to one of your own mobile units.

I think by the time CB radio was a year old, probably only about 30 percent of the licensees were operating legally. The rest had discovered "skip" and were forming clubs, chatting with other stations, etc.

The FCC dropped the restriction on communication with units of other stations, but retained the distance rule, which I believe is still in effect today.

By the time I took my first real look at CB as a viable means by which my wife, who was not at the time interested in becoming a ham, and I could communicate, it wasn't viable! That was in the early 60s, and CB was already nearly unusable for its originally intended purpose. I did buy a couple of CB radios, installing one in the house and one in the car, but after three months gave them away.

What this means is the entire history of Class D CB has been one of "Screw the rules." That is the radio education of the CBer from the time he first hears of the service until he leaves it. Probably most of them today either don't know the rules or don't know there ARE rules. Consequently when we bring them into ham radio, their attitudes are long set in doing their own thing, speaking their own language, operating by their own rules. If we recruit them, we are failing when we don't tell them to respect our hobby. And the result is, they don't respect it. They no longer have to work very hard to get into it (since the early 1990s) so they have virtually nothing to lose. It has become valueless, just another place to "do my thing."

And it shows. Unfortunately a good many of todays hams never knew ham radio the old way, so they never knew there had been a better way than ham-CB. To them, this is great, for this is all they've ever seen. They came into CB and now they have a vastly expanded CB, and that is how they see it. Again, we are the blame, for we don't make it clear that it isn't CB.

However, it's all moot. The damage has been done and it is absolutely irreversible. All the code/no-code forums are a complete waste of time. Ham radio is NOT going back to being just ham radio ever again, and those of us who want to remain hams have to accept it the way it is, and try to have fun with it. The code debate is completely useless. No one, no petition, is going to change the "progress" the FCC has decided to make. And we can not go back.

So, if it becomes CB, so be it. As we old timers die off no-one will be left to complain about the trend anyway, and we won't care anymore!! So have at it. If I get tired of the garbage, I still have my keyer

Ed
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KA3RFE on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
K4JF:

We disagree on the definition of "personal." To me it does not relate only to communications with family. It does not say this in the rules. If FCC intended communications only with family and for business purposes, they'd say so. Years back when the band was still only 23 channels, the FCC established some "chitchat" channels were different licensees could talk with each other, so it was acknowledged by the FCC that different stations may communicate with each other. Later, they removed all those restrictions. Anyone may legally talk with anyone they want and it does not violate the rules to do so.

73 KA3RFE
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by AE6IP on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
A comment on the legality of using modified equipment in services that require type approved radios: Yes, it is, technically, legal to do this. There are two escape clauses that allow it, one very specific, one general:

1) A MARS operator may have equipment modified by an authorized technicians so that it can operate on the MARS frequencies.

2) A properly certified technician may modify equipment and submit it for recertification.

This approach is, to my knowledge, never used, because of the cost involved.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by AE6IP on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
W5HTW,

I disagree with most of your assertions about who CBers are and what they know or believe, because almost none of the CBers I've known over the last 25 years have fit into the stereotype.

While there are bad apples in the CB community, and at the peak of the CB craze in the mid 70s, a lot of people fit your description, simply from not knowing any better, in reality, in the current day, the percentage of CBers who are bad apples appears to be about the same as the percentage of hams who are bad apples.

I have lately been travelling in the West, in California, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Wyoming, and Utah, with a 2m rig, an FRS/GMRS hand held, and a CB rig, paying attention to the local traffic in all these areas, and I'm just not seeing the horrible behavior that people are claiming about CBers. Also, I live near San Francisco, San Jose, and Oakland California, and routinely scan the 10m band and rarely hear anything there other than 10-10 members.

Your mileage clear varies, but I don't think it's representative of real CB.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by AE6IP on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
<< "Just remember. CB is designed for personal (aka family) and small business use. Therefore 99.9% of CB operation is illegal. It's as simple as that: if you're not talking to family or your business on CB, you are illegal. >>

The FCC's definition of "personal" is different than yours. 95.413 lists which communications are prohibited via CB and there is no restriction to only communicating with your family.

"personal" in law is usually meant to distinguish between actions taken on your own behalf ("personal") and those taken when you are acting as an agent for another, as when you are an employee or contractor.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by AE6IP on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
<< i'm saying 10-4 is pure cb crap and its not to be used on the hambands...Can you get this through your thick head and not try to twist what i'm saying. Cb handles and 10-4 are not to be heard on amateur radio...but you will hear this on certain freq's and some 2 meter repeaters because some of these hardcore cbers now have a ham ticket. >>

d00d, i got some bad news for you. The FCC allows you to say anything you want on ham radio, with a small list of exceptions, and the 10 codes aren't disallowed.

And, you can, in fact, use "cb handles" on ham radio, so long as you *also* obey proper id procedure.

It's only a matter of personal taste whether you'll use 10 codess or not, or communicate with those who do or not.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KA5CVH on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
The 1% rule.

I played around on 11m SSB up through the height of the CB fad. When it was clear that the band was lost I got my ham ticket. I imediately left the CB habits behind. I think this is true for the vast majority of hams who started out as CB'ers.

I too have heard new hams using power mic's and other audio noise toys they've carried over from CB. I recall while living in Indy several years back we had a new (then) ham get on the air with his new FM rig and a power mic. The audio was hideous to say the least. There were a large group of us field engineer and service tech's that hung out on the 145.25 during the day while out in the field and we kept telling this individual to loose the power mic. He kept telling us how much he liked the way it made him sound. We pointed out that we were the ones who had to listen to his signal not him. We finally just had to ignore the poor fool. Then he got mad at us and called us a bunch of arrogant blah-blah-blah.

Well folks he represented probally 1% of the CB'ers out there but unfortunately that is the 1% that people will remember.

Mike, KA5CVH
LaPorte TX
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by WR8D on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Ref N8VB: Who am i to dictate...well i'm a repeater owner as well as one of the control op's. I can't get over the fact that you guys are all up in the air wanting evidently to let these folks get on the hambands and say 10-4 and use their cb handles while on the hambands. I've been through 2 sunspot cycles and very active on all bands and modes during this time. In all that time not untill the last 2 years when the code was dropped down to 5 wpm did i ever hear folks saying 10-4 and using their cb handles instead of their calls. When it happens they got called...not called down on the radio..then after the phone call they got talked to eyeball to eyeball...guess what...that didn't work either. They dont want to be elmered they just want to act and talk like they did on cb. Now you're another one spouting off and trying to add to some of my comments. I never said all cbers are flakes..infact if you'll read my comment i said i know lots of new folks that made good operators. I also have tried to elmer a few that were nothing but hardcore cbers. Here locally these have run the older hams off the 2 meter band. "Hams" dont use cb handles and 10 codes...i believe if you'll look in part 97 there's a little thing there about good "amateur practice" crap it "ain't" cb practice. Now as for this elite comment you made about me...well i dont feel that way...none of us do...we dont care if you waivered the code or if you're a 5 wpm extra. What ticks us all off is these folks that come to the hambands and still talk like cbers. Simple as that. Also we're not talking about sudden growth or a big crowd showing up all at once on the bands...We want folks to get on amateur radio and be professional...good op's...if that makes me in your eyes an elite well thanks for the nice compliment. In the last 2 years some of the worse cb types have gotten on the hambands. After the code is gone we figure the really bad ones will start to arrive. Hey 1 is to many not to mention the thought that there might be thousands.
73
"pick on that one"
WR8D:
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by RobertKoernerExAE7G on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Fortunately, most new hams follow "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

The new ham, "conquering hero" who sets out to change ham radio into his CB ways, are in the minority.

I became a ham to ESCAPE CB radio culture, which to me includes the bootlegers.

Go ahead. Rant away how hams should accept CB culture.
Huuuum. Come to think of it, I've never heard anyone send 10-4 good buddy, we be destinated; or for that matter 3s.

Guess the Q could go like this: after sending a message, the ham sends hw? the CBer sends 1 0 - 4 gb - t r e e t o p t a l l c o p y. o p h r m o o n d o g g i e - b o n e h e r. t h a n k s f e r t h e r a d i d i o c h e c k. w e b e a t h a n k i n y a. (at 5WPM!)

A new Q-code, QCB. CQ CQ CQ QCB QCB QCB (looking for any cb/ham,any where), de KD1CBR

Yup. We REALLY need those new CB/hams to interject CB culture into ham radio. Wonder how we survived these many years without their help?

73
Bob
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W0LFS on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
""It's only by helping those with a real interest that we can insure we will have good operators instead of a bunch of lids who think name calling and arguing is acceptable behavior in amateur radio"" WHERE I AGREE WITH YOUR POST DID I NOT READ YOU CALLING SOME OP'S "LIDS"???? AS IN NAME CALLING...
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K5TED on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Kent said: "If John always observes the power restrictions demanded by 11 meters, what technical problems would his operation cause? What are the technical reasons for this being illegal?"

The issue is partially technical but mostly procedural. By using type acceptance to regulate functionality in radios for a given band, the FCC attempts to ensure all radios available to the general public for a given service will, upon sale to the public, be compliant with regard to stability, power and envelope, all of which are parameters by which a certain level of performance is documented, without requiring intervention by certified techs.

The procedural part of the ruling makes sure John Doe doesn't go on the air with a radio capable of causing interference across the entire amateur, commercial and utility bands. Not saying John is a numbskull, but probability states there's a good chance he will either accidently or intentionally transmit a carrier at some point or another on a frequency for which he is not certified, or may transmit improperly on the service for which he is certified. FCC rules don't allow for John to conduct unidentified "accidental transmissions" nor identified transmissions on frequencies for which the operator or equipment is not certified under any circumstances other than an emergency situation.

Of course, all these rulings can be easily circumvented at the risk of fines and imprisonment. It's up to the individual to just say no.

There really is no technical reason why a properly modified and tuned radio shouldn't be used in service on a band where only type accepted radios are allowed, other than the desire to maintain quality control of our spectrum.

Nothing wrong with that. Look at it this way. It's sort of along the lines of why Interstate Highways have signs forbidding travel with vehicles of less than 200cc or whatever the limit is. Of course, it can be said that some individuals might well be able to modify that 175 Honda with better brakes, more torque and streamlined fairing, to keep up with 75mph traffic in a relatively safe manner, but for the most part, the average guy would be, at best, careening down the highway in danger of being blown off to his death by a passing semi.

There are just too few resources for the FCC to go around checking modified radios to verify compliance, so the blanket rulings stand firm.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by VK3XRX on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I have recently become a licenced amateur only a year ago, but started out in radio on the 27Mhz CB band. I am still active on 27 Mhz, and have a regular net with a bunch on ex-servicemen that are on every evening. While these guys might not use all the Q-codes that you hear on the ham bands down here, and have technical discussions about tropospheric ducting or something, they are courteous, friendly and welcome anyone in who wants to say gooday and have a chat. There are some channels though, like 35, that I would not go near, because of the language, jamming, high power, etc, etc, that goes on there.
However, on 2m I was shocked to hear outright racial abuse and propaganda sprouted by so-called licenced hams. This was very surprising, as you would expect this on some cb channels, but not on the ham bands. I must say that this is a very small minority compared to some of the rouges on some cb channels.
I think the point I'm trying to make is that you get some bad apples on both mediums, and as someone else mentioned, try not to group someone into the "all cbers are idiots" group.
 
Facts Now... SOCIETY  
by K4III on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Look at CB in the 70s. It was associated with the "James Dean" image, and "The Bandit" as a communications without any restriction where you could be "outlaws" from the commonality of common life. (They could do the same thing officers could do who had decent lifestyles, running teenagers off the streets using radios after 10 PM, except the CB-ers understood the younger crowd and realized the changing of an older, conservative society!) It was like stating "I can help society equally or more than any flawed beaurocracy."

You have the same thing presently with the younger generations, fads, clothing styles, music, video games, entertainment, all for rebellious reasons to show independence and individuality, which isn't necessarily a good or bad thing as a whole... Perhaps computers may end up in this category shortly?

Many CB-ers have broken the rules and are beyond the norm nowadays by leaps and bounds, using illegal power amps, modifying gear, puttin up towers, etc... That's where the Hams of today identify them.

However, the same thing applies to Amateur Radio, FRS, and other technologies. However in today's age, cellphones and computers have taken the stage forcing Amateur Radio into the background.

I would say in my opinion, children seem to be insecure nowadays relying on a cellphone, internet, and other wealthy items to be defiant and independent from society. Altogether I see the technology experience as definately being beneficial but unfortunately see where deficits occur such as the lack of individual social interaction as well as profit exploitation being made on expense of children. (Sure, cell and sunglasses, etc... are vital for emergencies, but so are gas masks, Amateur radios, bullet-proof vests, etc... How far will one go?)

I would like to see Amateur Radio get into the front lines again as it was in the 40s and 50s, no matter what the case, but who knows, with computers today, maybe we may only be the mustard and relish for the hot dog!

 
Facts Now... SOCIETY  
by K4III on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Look at CB in the 70s. It was associated with the "James Dean" image, and "The Bandit" as a communications without any restriction where you could be "outlaws" from the commonality of common life. (They could do the same thing officers could do who had decent lifestyles, running teenagers off the streets using radios after 10 PM, except the CB-ers understood the younger crowd and realized the changing of an older, conservative society!) It was like stating "I can help society equally or more than any flawed beaurocracy."

You have the same thing presently with the younger generations, fads, clothing styles, music, video games, entertainment, all for rebellious reasons to show independence and individuality, which isn't necessarily a good or bad thing as a whole... Perhaps computers may end up in this category shortly?

Many CB-ers have broken the rules and are beyond the norm nowadays by leaps and bounds, using illegal power amps, modifying gear, puttin up towers, etc... That's where the Hams of today identify them.

However, the same thing applies to Amateur Radio, FRS, and other technologies. However in today's age, cellphones and computers have taken the stage forcing Amateur Radio into the background.

I would say in my opinion, children seem to be insecure nowadays relying on a cellphone, internet, and other wealthy items to be defiant and independent from society. Altogether I see the technology experience as definately being beneficial but unfortunately see where deficits occur such as the lack of individual social interaction as well as profit exploitation being made on expense of children. (Sure, cell and sunglasses, etc... are vital for emergencies, but so are gas masks, Amateur radios, bullet-proof vests, etc... How far will one go?)

I would like to see Amateur Radio get into the front lines again as it was in the 40s and 50s, no matter what the case, but who knows, with computers today, maybe we may only be the mustard and relish for the hot dog!

 
Facts Now, & Society...  
by K4III on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Look at CB in the 70s. It was associated with the "James Dean" image, and "The Bandit" as a communications without any restriction where you could be "outlaws" from the commonality of common life. (They could do the same thing officers could do who had decent lifestyles, running teenagers off the streets using radios after 10 PM, except the CB-ers understood the younger crowd and realized the changing of an older, conservative society!) It was like stating "I can help society equally or more than any flawed beaurocracy."

You have the same thing presently with the younger generations, fads, clothing styles, music, video games, entertainment, all for rebellious reasons to show independence and individuality, which isn't necessarily a good or bad thing as a whole... Perhaps computers may end up in this category shortly?

Many CB-ers have broken the rules and are beyond the norm nowadays by leaps and bounds, using illegal power amps, modifying gear, puttin up towers, etc... That's where the Hams of today identify them.

However, the same thing applies to Amateur Radio, FRS, and other technologies. However in today's age, cellphones and computers have taken the stage forcing Amateur Radio into the background.

I would say in my opinion, children seem to be insecure nowadays relying on a cellphone, internet, and other wealthy items to be defiant and independent from society. Altogether I see the technology experience as definately being beneficial but unfortunately see where deficits occur such as the lack of individual social interaction as well as profit exploitation being made on expense of children. (Sure, cell and sunglasses, etc... are vital for emergencies, but so are gas masks, Amateur radios, bullet-proof vests, etc... How far will one go?)

I would like to see Amateur Radio get into the front lines again as it was in the 40s and 50s, no matter what the case, but who knows, with computers today, maybe we may only be the mustard and relish for the hot dog!

 
Society Today  
by K4III on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Look at CB in the 70s. It was associated with the "James Dean" image, and "The Bandit" as a communications without any restriction where you could be "outlaws" from the commonality of common life. (They could do the same thing officers could do who had decent lifestyles, running teenagers off the streets using radios after 10 PM, except the CB-ers understood the younger crowd and realized the changing of an older, conservative society!) It was like stating "I can help society equally or more than any flawed beaurocracy."

You have the same thing presently with the younger generations, fads, clothing styles, music, video games, entertainment, all for rebellious reasons to show independence and individuality, which isn't necessarily a good or bad thing as a whole... Perhaps computers may end up in this category shortly?

Many CB-ers have broken the rules and are beyond the norm nowadays by leaps and bounds, using illegal power amps, modifying gear, puttin up towers, etc... That's where the Hams of today identify them.

However, the same thing applies to Amateur Radio, FRS, and other technologies. However in today's age, cellphones and computers have taken the stage forcing Amateur Radio into the background.

I would say in my opinion, children seem to be insecure nowadays relying on a cellphone, internet, and other wealthy items to be defiant and independent from society. Altogether I see the technology experience as definately being beneficial but unfortunately see where deficits occur such as the lack of individual social interaction as well as profit exploitation being made on expense of children. (Sure, cell and sunglasses, etc... are vital for emergencies, but so are gas masks, Amateur radios, bullet-proof vests, etc... How far will one go?)

I would like to see Amateur Radio get into the front lines again as it was in the 40s and 50s, no matter what the case, but who knows, with computers today, maybe we may only be the mustard and relish for the hot dog!

 
Sorry for multiple posts  
by K4III on September 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Sorry about 3 posts... Error Pages came up after posting. Time to learn more about my computer.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KA5ROW on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
We all a guilty including me of running down Cb'ers but most of us came from the cb band.
I got in CB on my own. My folks were not CB'ers. I was 16 mowed lawns and bought a 6 Ch Midland CB. "1973" But experimenting got my interest started. My friend Mike bought the same radio. Luckily it was a single conversion radio. We took the ch 9 xmit and rec crystals out and reversed them wow it worked now we had 2 ch. Just experimentation like that got us started.
Of course a few years later I got amplifiers a Viking Valiant " Wish I Had Now " ham receivers and other ham stuff. And I bet most of us hams did the same thing. But we went on and got our ham ticket and became good operators. What was made you sick all the nonsense that went on CB. The linear Manufactures did not help any either. I remember getting a Henchaws catalog and it would have 15 pages of radios and accessories, and then 10 pages of 50 to 1000 watt amplifiers.
And every one of them made to operate exclusively 25 to 28 MHz. With 5 to 10 watt drive. NOW HINDSIGHT. My opinion cb should have been VHF 100 MHz or higher 20 watts or so. Very little skip to incurage the use of amplifiers here, and eventually progressed to FM only.
I go to the cb band to listen now & then and it is a total mess. From 26.500 - 28.000 and the 40 channels are almost unusable.

Doug/KA5ROW
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by N7XB on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I know only a handfull of CB ops who have become hams. But there is no doubt that much of CB jargon and practice has migrated to ham radio, especially 2 meter FM repeaters. It seems some hams, especially Two-Meter Techs who have neither the desire nor commitment to upgrade their license, soon adopt a "radio vocabulary" when ordinary speech would suffice.

For example:

"November Seven Xray Bravo . . . "Mo-beel" . . . Listening . . ."

"Handle here is Bruce"

"Well, I am now destinated at the home qth, but you can give me a landline on the twisted pair."

BTW: Try using the nonsensical "destinated" at work and watch the reaction of the listener . . .

73
Bruce, N7XB . . . "for ID"
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KD5WIH on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
W0LFS... " WHERE I AGREE WITH YOUR POST DID I NOT READ YOU CALLING SOME OP'S "LIDS"???? AS IN NAME CALLING...

Keith,
You are correct, it would have been better had I said "operators with poor habits", instead of "lids". I didn't actually CALL anyone a lid, but I could have choosen a better way to word the point I was making.

73
KD5WIH
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by N8VB on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
WR8D:

A few comments:

If you have the crappy attitude with those new hams you have claimed to try to elmer as the attitude that you display here, then no wonder they didn't want your help. You should elmer by example not by criticism. And not by being an elitist ham radio snob.

And for the record I was licensed in 1977 and I still operate CW. On a good day I can do 22 WPM. So before you go trying to imply that somehow I just squeaked by on the code think again. I hope you know what happens when you ASSUME.

I do not like the CB type lingo on 2 meters any more than you do. I just don't talk to those who use it. Eventually they will get the message or they won't - but I don't let it ruin my day or raise my blood pressure.

N8VB
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by WR8D on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Re N8VB: Well i dont have the luxury of ignoring these folks. They are on our repeaters nite and day. On hf thats exactly what i do too. "But" you'll find if you look around they stick together on certain freq's. Their numbers are growing and as far as hf well folks like you and i stay away from them. The elmering is over..that lasted for almost a year and yes it was done in a nice way. You just dont understand how hardheaded and hardcore cb these folks are. These here locally were cb for over 25 years. They are part of the bunch that went bad when cb went to trash. Also i never implied anything to you or assumed anything at all. I just said it didnt make a differance if someone was a waiver 5wpm or 20wpm all that counts is that person must be a good operator. "You" did the assuming...but no hard feelings. As for my attitude..well you've been around the hobby as long as me if you lived here and had to put up with this abuse you'd feel the same way i do. We can not turn our backs on it. It will not go away and its getting worse..but i guess with these new types of folks there's nothing that can be done except ranting and fussing...most of them certainly dont care.

73
John WR8D
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by WR8D on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Re KB9YZL: Sorry Kent about the so called personal attack. You jumped me with your quotes of my text and twisting my meanings. I figured you had what i said coming. No hard feelings. Thats all these threads are good for though. We have a little time left before they start to give ham tickets away so lets enjoy the bands for a while. Soon we'll all have to start saying 10-4 and make up a cb handle so we can make these new cb hams feel more at home.

Let me practice..
This here be WR8D we be destinated. We be gonna lay the hammer down and hit the flat side. Yeah it sounds so stupid..buts it there now and it "will" get worse.

73
John WR8D
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by DOODAH on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
> If someone has a technical interest in radio, wants
> to chase DX or experiment with antennas, he would
> enjoy Amateur radio.

In Europe a CBer could do all that too. Only the USA
has the 'thou shalt not DX' commandment. Over here
a CBer can DX legally, experiment with antennas,
power supplies, speech processors, packet radio etc.
The CBer is free to dabble with all sorts of
electronics, just not the radio itself. This kind of blurs the line just a little, don't you think?

Considering that the majority of hams never open the
lid on their radios either... the 'CBer' tag is almost justified. But I object.. why try to insult a fellow radio enthusiast? Heaven knows there really aren't that many of us (as a proportion of the entire human race), so why must we bicker? Anyone who actually wants to communicate with other strangers over a radio has most of the amateur spirit as far as I'm concerned, whether they've passed a test or not. Live and let live, gentlemen!
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KC5NWS on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Go up to the 20m cw band, around, 14058, and enjoy yourself. No fuss, no bother and no one knows what your radio background is as you rattle along around 17wpm (my favorite speed).
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Actually, when you re-read this whole thread, most of the posts seem to be well thought out, and generally positive. It's a shame that a few negatively oriented posts can so completely taint a discussion.

I have observed that for most of the "CB Hostile" posters, the "Hot Buttons" are the use of "10 Codes", the "Fake Southern Accent", the use of "Illegal Equipment" and the ready use of obscenity.

To address the last two first; I heartily agree! This sort of nonsense has to stop. These two issues are items that are long overdue for FCC attention. I think it's high time that we (Licensed Hams) petition the FCC to make these problems priority items.

I know that many of you reading this are saying to yourselves; "It'll never happen!" I say; "It Can!" The FCC does not get it's instructions and regulations from a Burning Bush in the desert! They are simply a branch of the Government, and as such, they work for us!! As Hams, we are in the best position to observe violations in the field. The FCC needs to hear what we have to say.

As far as the "CB Accent" goes, I think that's getting a bit picky. Sure it sounds corny, but I'm sure many of our conventions sound odd to others. Also, what happens if I'm really from the South? Do I have to use a fake Boston Accent?

The "10 Codes" have been discussed a lot. Contrary to the position of a very few, they are not simply "CB Crap". It's true that you hear a couple of them on the CB Band, but I seriously doubt that most CBers know more than four of them. How many CBers do you think know what a 10-97 means? Maybe you don't like them, and maybe you feel that your bands should have there own protocols, and that's fine; It's your right. Just remember that a little courtesy and tolerance goes a long way.

I was taught the military prowords as my first "radio language". If, during a period of bad reception, I use the phrase "Say Again", don't be too quick to jump on me: Consider the reception your "QSL" would get on the MARS frequencies!

Remember;…… Courtesy and Tolerance!

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9SDS on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I started as a CBer. I did on and off for 20 or so years before I became a Ham(some may think I still not a Ham sense I'm a Tech No-code). I remember in the 70's most CBers policed themselves. Unfortunately that is not the case now. I can tell you tho the people that I talk to on the CB are good and decent. And yes, some are power freaks, but most run their rigs legal. I have delt with the idiots who go to Radio Shack and buys a rig and procedes to cause all kinds of problems.

The fact is that Hams and CBers are like dogs and cats. From my CB buddies Hams are called "Pig Operators". And I'm sure you have heard the names Hams use for CBers. The fact is there is always going to be CB and some will move on the become Hams and some will even become good Hams. Then you will have those few that you can't tell anything to or chose to cause problems.

Like I said Hams and CBers are never going to get along and it's just something that we are gong to have to live with. Name calling is not going to change a thing. Just for the record, if you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W1GFD on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Dear Sirs:
As one who graduated from CB to Amateur radio I think I may know why there is such a problem with some CBers graduating to amateur radio and the problem is as follows, It’s all our fault, meaning the hams, there are not enough Hams elmering these folks and as a result we have a whole host of hams who do not know nor have they been taught proper operating techniques or etiquette. There is also a whole host of hams who rather than attempt to offer help and/or constructive criticism would rather chew out these new hams and call them names. Now I know you cant force help onto people but is it not proper etiquette to at least offer the help after all is it not the goal of amateur radio to help others.

73
W1GFD
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
In re-reading this thread, an interesting (if somewhat radical) thought occurred to me. Maybe we could cure many of the Citizen's Band problems by suggesting to the FCC that it be moved!

Let's face it, the whole history of the 11 meter Citizen's Band is littered with problems, "bad calls", and outright mistakes!

First of all, dropping it into the HF Bands was a real bad call. If you don't want people experimenting with skip transmissions, don't put them in a band where it tends to happen naturally!

The abandonment of any sort of licensing or registration was a huge mistake. If people feel that no one is even watching, there will always be a certain percentage that will try to take advantage of that.

The reason that many people are tempted to break the law is the miserable performance provided by the average CB set. Back during my early days working for the College, we tried to get by with CB sets for vehicle-to-vehicle communications: It was an awful experience. Bad quality transmissions, short range, and all the problems that come from cheap radios. After a couple of seasons we faced up to the fact that a change was needed, and started pushing our people through the process of getting their "Tech" licenses.

The difference has been like night and day! Our 2 meter mobile sets gave us the range and signal clarity we had previously only dreamed of. Heck, our HTs out-ranged our old CB sets by a factor of three! (All this on simplex, of course.) I firmly believe that if the average CBer had a set that got out as well as my Icom IC-T2H HT, he would never be tempted to experiment.

Here is my suggestion:….. Let's start fresh! Move the CB Band somewhere into the VHF Bands. Make the sets FM, at about 5 watts. The FCC has already designated the GMRS frequencies, and these might be a good home for CB. There are other frequencies up there whose functions have been at least partially taken over by cell phones. Those might work too.

The change could be announced as a regulatory and procedural change that would take place in three years. At the end of that three year "waiting period", all CB traffic would have to be on the new frequencies, and the 11 meter band would once again be part of the Amateur frequencies. Anyone operating there after that point in time, without a license, would be subject to vigorous prosecution.

Making this change in this way would accomplish the following:

1) The days of non-licensees trying to shoot cross continent "Skip" would be over.

2) Their days of bleeding over onto other HF frequencies would be over.

3) All of the CB users who are currently operating legally would have three years to make the transition. This would not be a huge imposition, particularly when one realizes that the average inexpensive CB only lasts a few years in mobile service anyway. To compensate them for the financial burden, they would be getting better performance, clearer transmissions, and good performing antennas that will actually fit on a car.

4) All of the illegally modified equipment currently in use, or for sale, would become worthless.

Yes, there would be a few "die hards" who would continue to try to operate illegally on 11 meters, but how many would stay for long, once most of the people that they wanted to talk to (or over) had left? (Particularly if the FCC managed a few well publicized busts!) They would die out in a few years, in any event, because there would be no new 11 meter sets being produced! The manufacturers will have switched to producing VHF CBs!

Yes, there would also be a few CB operators who would complain about the loss of SSB operation, but if they're into radio enough to appreciate SSB, maybe they're the kind of CBer that CAN make the transition to Ham, with our help.

I know all this probably sounds deranged to many of you reading this, but I have really begun to feel that the only way to solve "The CB Problem" is to start over again with a clean slate!

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL

 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K5TED on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
"Fake Southern Accent" a "CB thing"?

That's priceless. Evidently I'm listening to a different dimension on 75/80m. Almost nothing but what sounds like a cross between Jed Clampett and Andy Griffith. Is it OK to have a Southern accent if it's real?
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W6EZ on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
My own personal experience in this matter is varied. First, I was a CBer back in the ‘60s. The family had the call of KLA0731, and back then CB was for business only, be that personal family business or real business, like a taxi service. I was interested in ham radio back then, I built a couple of heathkit CBs, but the lure of girls and motorcycles in those early teenage years lured me away from radio. I didn’t get interested in radio again until the early 90’s and went out a promptly bought a new 40 channel SSB CB radio, put up an antenna and selected channel 17. What a shock! Cussing! Wars! Dope deals! People were actually shooting at each other over what was going on CB radio! All the truckers on CB coming through town were calling for dope dealers and prostitutes. All the big stations in town were harassing the truckers. Everyone had to have an amplifier to talk across town. I couldn’t handle it so I tried to use the local SSB channel only. It was a little better there, but only a little. I did meet a few folks that shared the same distaste for all the cussing and such, so we all ditched CB and became hams about the same time. Then we got surprise number two. We though we were good guys, we didn’t want to be dope dealers or pimps or cuss on the air, we just wanted to be hams but the ‘real’ hams didn’t like us! One of the locals here, a tech plus at the time, did his very best to chase us off the repeater. He would jam and cuss at us, fail to ID, and made like so miserable for us that most of us to this day will not use a repeater unless there is no other option. Most of us upgraded, learned code, and now hang out on HF. That tech plus continued to be a pain on the repeater, bootlegged on HF until they lowered the code requirement to 5wpm and then finally upgraded, along with most of his cronies. His manners are a bit better these days. Now the funny thing is that where I live, CB is pretty much dead. There are few guys who were there when I started that are still there, but they are few in number. There aren’t too many CB antennas on the pickups around town anymore either. The local ham club that had over 300s member when I got my license is lucky to have 100 members these days. I think the price of cell phones finally got low enough to draw people away from radio. These days, if I want to hear cussing, on the air fighting or dope discussions I tune to20, 75 or 40 meters and have a listen.
 
CB Got Me Started  
by AA9YU on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
In my early days of radio, it was the cb radio and the wonderful operators who assisted my interest in radio. I rarely have met a rude cb'er, but I have monitored some rude "skip talkers" while monitoring the CB frequencies. Honestly, I have heard more outright rudeness, arrogance, and poor ops on the ham bands. The ONLY difference between ham and cb is the license. Therein lies the rub: legal vs illegal.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by LNXAUTHOR on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
> If we tolerate that sort thing, where we allow
> anonymous individuals, using fake names and empty
> personal profiles, to flame anyone they please, who are
> we to lecture anyone else?

[sigh] why do people here think that eham.net is some sort of government-sanctioned entity?

eham - please, please, either require folks to use a callsign or set the record straight here... AFAIK, there is NO, repeat NO requirement to use a callsign on eham.net...

and why do some folks think that a callsign makes one's opinion more or (less) legitimate on this forum?

p.s. note that i'm not doing any name-calling here, it's just that i don't understand this attitude... please don't lump me in with idiotic posters...

p.s.s. but then again i guess i'd feel the same way if i were a responsible CB user?
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K8MRS on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

My intended comments were very well made by W5HTW ON Sept. 13th. Please reread this gentlemens' post.

Our hobby of amateur radio has many of the parallel ills that our society and country are facing today.

The hobby has turned into a "plug and play" to quote the "computer jargon" now common place.

My entry route into this hobby was via the Novice class license and it was an excellent "experience" affording a way to learn and gain the knowledge for the next steps.

Again, thanks to W5HTW and his fine wisdom !


Gordon, licensed same call 45 years.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
LNXAUTHOR;

I am the author of the phrase you quoted, but I’m afraid I don’t fully understand your question or position. (Well………. I’m getting older……..)

I don’t group anybody into categories, and I would like to understand your point of view: Please elaborate!

As a side note, I do personally believe that people who are willing to identify themselves are inherently more credible than people who can only speak from a position of anonymity.


Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KC5NOD on September 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I threw my CBs away after my four year old daughter and I where talking while I was going to the store and back. A really "cool" CBer came on and invited my "sweet thang piece of @$$%#" to come over and play at his house. That was all I could take.
I envite any CBer and encourage them to become amateur radio operators, but LEAVE THE BAD HABITS BEHIND, please. I have new CBs now but very seldom do I get on them. Have fun and enjoy this hobby.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by PHINEAS on September 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
You know, I notice how hams refer to CBers as "those people". Sounds like the last racial convo I had.

Phineas
K0KMA
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by HAM-MAN on September 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I've been a ham for 12 years and can't figure out why other hams dislike 10-codes and such. The Q codes seem pretty stupid to me and sound rediculous. Why are people shunned for using 10 codes?
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by JAMES_BENEDICT_EX_N8FVJ on September 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
The wild CB days are long gone. Sales are but a small percentage of years past. Large suppliers are now small shops & many shops are history.

I encourage to convert as many CBers as one can. The CBers with real radio interest will become reasonable hams. After all, most hams used a CB set in their past. They just do not talk about it!
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by N2VJX on September 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Why all the fuss over q's and 10's. I hear hams all the time saying 73's when they sign off.. Isn't that a 10 code?

Anyway, I try to practice normal english procedures on 2/440. You don't know how silly people sound talking in codes regarless of q or 10 codes. Let's be a little more professional and not a bunch of rag chewing nerds.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KE4ZHN on September 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
This is a very interesting thread. Im proud to say that I started my radio hobby by DX listening to AM broadcast band at night, and that spurred an interest in CB. Some of my friends in the neighborhood had cb`s and my brother was a ham so radio was a part of my family since my birth. At that young age, I had no interest in learning cw to get my ticket, even though I was interested in radio, I chose to go with cb because it was simple and cheap to get into. I met many very nice people on the original 23 channels and stayed with the hobby well into the 40 channel expansion. I discovered the wonders of ssb and I was hooked! SSB cb was much more enjoyable then the typical 10-4 good buddy stuff of am and I went on for many years on the band even under the often adverse conditions. Sure, I met idiots, and encountered jammers, morons, filthy talking people, and you name it. But, I bared with it and held on. Eventually after getting fed up with the limitations of being stuck on one band and enduring endless combat with people bent on trying to ruin the service for others, I was talked into studying for my ticket by a good ham friend who I met on cb. Well, I learned the cw got my general, and eventually my advanced and have enjoyed ham radio ever since. But, at first, I was surprised to hear alot of the same garbage going on on certain frequencies that I heard on cb! Racial hate mongers, cussing that would make a truck driver blush, jamming, arguing, you name it, I have heard it on various bands. My point is this, there are many good cb`ers and hams, and there are many a**holes on both services too! Just because we have a ticket and took a test doesnt really prove or mean we as hams are better then any cb operator who follows the rules and conducts themselves in a proper manner on the air. I have been involved in radio as a hobby for 30 years now, and have met some wonderful people, and some real jerks! Yes, on both services. Ham radio is a wonderful diverse hobby that anyone who really wants to, can enjoy. If a person isnt into radio that deeply, then whats the big deal if he / she is content with listening to smokey reports and radio checks and all the cb talk? If thats their cup of tea, so be it. Granted, the cb band has gone downhill with all the reckless operation and horrendous qrm, but for yackin around town or traveling down the highway and getting road info, its still hard to beat a cb rig. I see no reason someone cant enjoy both. Its all in what you like. Personally, I dont like or use cb jargon on the ham bands, but if someone does, its not as if they commited a mortal sin. I get a kick out of some of the "elitist" attitudes who think that being a ham is something thats equal to being some sort of radio god. Just listen around, and youll hear some pretty pathetic behavior on some nets and most of it is from older 20 wpm hams! Especially the ones who like to get on the air drunk and make fools of themselves. So, you can see that cb`ers are not the only ones who need to clean up their act are they? Ham radio, or even cb for that matter is what YOU as an individual make of it. If you like acting like a degenerate on the air and qrming, jamming and being a nuisance to anyone within reach of your signal, then whether your on the amateur bands or cb really doesnt make a difference, it just makes you an a**hole! On the other hand, if your friendly, courteous and enjoy talking to people and making new friends, then BOTH radio services can be a great hobby to you. Its NOT the service your on, its how you interact with that service that matters.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by FORMER_K0PD on September 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
The writer said only a hand full of CB op's used illegal amp's and frequency's...I'as one who was very much involved with the CB world before becoming a ham can tell you the writer is dead wrong as i would venture to guess at least 50% of CBer's when i was in Cb were illegal op's and i don't mean from over modulationplus all the CBer's i've ran into the 50% statement would still stand...Any Ham's who have full coverage can go down into the 400-on up part of 27mhz and listen when the band is open.....
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by HAM-MAN on September 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
10-4 Good Buddy!
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by XE1UFO on September 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Some of you guys just don’t get WHY WE STILL USE Q-Codes. On local FM repeaters, I don’t believe they are really necessary. But most of the DX stations we work do not speak English as their first language -- some not at all. With Q-codes, we can get enough information back and forth to confirm the contact and get that prized QSL card!
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by HAM-MAN on September 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
If all you're looking for is a prized q-card, then you really need to leave the shack a little more often.

10-4 good buddy?
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by N8VB on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KB9YZL:

There already are licence free VHF and UHF CB bands... FRS and MURS... 0.5W ERP on FRS... 2W ERP on MURS

N8VB
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
A previous post wrote:

>>>"There already are licence free VHF and UHF CB bands... FRS and MURS... 0.5W ERP on FRS... 2W ERP on MURS"<<<

I am well aware of that (as my post should indicate), that is precisely why I suggested those frequencies as a new home for CB in general.

If one re-reads my post, you will see that my central issue was the elimination of the 11 meter CB allocation.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL


 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by HAMSHARK on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Why all the fuss over q's and 10's. I hear hams all the time saying 73's when they sign off.. Isn't that a 10 code?


What kind of moronic statement is this? Do you see a "10" in "73"? Anywhere?
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by XE1UFO on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
To the CBer who calls himself “HAMMAN”:

You would be surprised how far out of the shack I get. Visited 19 DXCC countries so far. Also do a lot of design and building of equipment and antennas, as I have since I was 14. And a lot of emergency and disaster relief communications.

Guys: How does a CB LID like HAMMAN, with no name or callsign or any personal info posted get on an otherwise nice list like this one? Maybe his complete name is HamMan Eggs?

XE1UFO a.k.a. KA5SUT
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Yeah........the Anonymous Trolls are out in force!

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by HAM-MAN on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
TO: XE1UFO a.k.a. KA5SUT

Well, you're right, my name is Ham & Eggs! Also, because you mentioned foreign countries as DX countries further supports what a loser you are! You people (old people) need to try and assimilate into into the technological revolution and the 21st century. It's counterproductive to remain stubborn and shun people who don't think like you. 10-4? Also, you know what I do; here's a little story that should annoy you:

When I'm on a repeater with other people my age, we speak in youthful "terms". Such as "hey, did you see that movie last night, it was phat!" "Did you hear Snoop Dogg's new CD, that is dope" This really pisses off the older hams on frequency - it's a lot of fun to annoy them.

So keep up your narrow perspective on life and you will be further annoyed. 10-4 Pops?
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by HAM-MAN on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
HAMSHARK

I agree with you 100% 73's is the most assinine term I have ever heard.

Hey old people, let's say 122's from now on...
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by N2VJX on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Ham man if you're so smart where the does the term 73's originated?
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by HAM-MAN on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Enlighten me!
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K5TED on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Not that it matters...but in case you girls can't find the answer..

"73" (not "73's"), is NOT a 10-code

The first authentic use of 73 is in the publication The National Telegraph Review and Operators' Guide, first published in April 1857. At that time, 73 meant "My love to you!" Succeeding issues of this publication continued to use this definition of the term. Curiously enough, some of the other numerals then used have the same definition now that they had then, but within a short time, the use of 73 began to change.

In the National Telegraph Convention, the numeral was changed from the Valentine-type sentiment to a vague sign of fraternalism. Here, 73 was a greeting, a friendly "word" between operators and it was so used on all wires.

In 1859, the Western Union Company set up the standard "92 Code". A list of numerals from one to 92 was compiled to indicate a series of prepared phrases for use by the operators on the wires. Here, in the 92 Code, 73 changes from a fraternal sign to a very flowery "accept my compliments," which was in keeping with the florid language of that era.

Over the years from 1859 to 1900, the many manuals of telegraphy show variations of this meaning. Dodge's The Telegraph Instructor shows it merely as "compliments." The Twentieth Century Manual of Railway and Commercial Telegraphy defines it two ways, one listing as "my compliments to you;" but in the glossary of abbreviations it is merely "compliments." Theodore A. Edison's Telegraphy Self-Taught shows a return to "accept my compliments." By 1908, however, a later edition of the Dodge Manual gives us today's definition of "best regards" with a backward look at the older meaning in another part of the work where it also lists it as "compliments."

"Best regards" has remained ever since as the "put-it-down-in-black-and-white" meaning of 73 but it has acquired overtones of much warmer meaning.

10-73 in police codes generally means "road block"
10-73 in CB code means "speed trap" (same thing from different perspective?)
10-73 in certain states code list means "meal break"

 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KA4KOE on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Did the cb thing in 1976 at age 13. Got bored and moved on to novice in 1979.

Been an extra since 1987.......

Its really amazing the heated tempers and so forth. People need to lighten up. Been there, done that.

I love to tweak the anal retentive. I'll drag into exaggerated cb lingo just to anoy those who can't take a joke and are too serious.

Its only radio, not a religion.

Philip
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KA4KOE on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Also, 73 is antiquated term for VHF/UHF. To illustrate how absurd it is on 2m, I'll often reply to 73 with something like "OK, 36.5 to you too!!!!" if we're in a playful mood.

Again, lighten up, its only radio.

P
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K0RGR on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
WR8D - John, it has been my experience that most CB to Amateur converts are trainable, though it sometimes requires great patience. I would guess that most hams licensed since the late 60's have some CB experience in their past somewhere.

I've been near your corner of WV recently, and I did not hear anything objectionable on 2 meters. In fact, I'm not sure I heard much of anything on 2 meters around there. In driving through the eastern mountains, I have often found little pockets of new hams on 2 meter FM - usually having a good time and following the rules. But, there are definitely some places where the newbies have been isolated and brought with them whatever operating habits they had.

You may have a small group of incorrigibles in your area. If so, your only hope for a return to normality is to try to recruit some newbies of your own, earn their respect, and teach them to do it the right way. They, then can exert peer pressure on the dimbulbs.

We have a problem like that here. There are a few recent CB converts and a 25-year Extra who sounds like one when he has been drinking. A recent influx of newbies who have had some training in proper procedures have forced these clods to clean up their act, though I wish the Extra would lose his bottle or his mike.

I really think that the biggest problem with our current license structure is that many newbies end up in little isolated pockets where they don't get to even hear decent operators.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W5HTW on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Don't worry about "Ham-Man" When he reaches driving age and discovers cars and girls, he'll mature a bit. Or at least, we can hope.

Ed
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Ham-Man;

Well…… I see you really get around!

I also notice that you seem to have a real problem with the whole "Age Thing". Believe it or not, I can understand that. I remember what it was like to be 19 or 20 with an attitude: My only problem was that I did it during the Viet Nam years.

You want to talk about something that would give you a hard-on for Old Guys???......Try getting drafted! Better yet, try the first funeral for a friend who came home in a bag.

If the attitudes of a bunch of Older Hams is the biggest irritation in your life, you're really lucky. Things could be far, far worse!

Oh yeah……one other thing: don't be so quick to judge people you don't know…….after all, isn't that what you're pissed at us about???

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB0GU on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Hey I have a solution to two problems, restrict Broad Band over Power lines to current CB frequencies. ;-)
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by WR8D on September 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
RE: K0RGR Well i agree about the activity on 2 meters here now. The cbers that came to the hambands 2 years ago have ran everyone around here off the band. Now the newbies have got mad after all the fuss with the older hams and they've just about quit too. Maybe they'll just go back to chickenband...

Kent i hope you're reading this i see from up the thread that you're getting a little taste of what i've had to put up with here locally. I'm referring to that "Ham/dumbass/Man" i think thats the way he spelled it. Imagine about 6 folks with "worse" attitudes that have been cbers for 25 years. They ruined the 2 meter band here locally. Now nobody will hardly use the machines. That is what the world is coming to now. I noticed "Mr dumbass chickenband Man" also mentioned to someone up the thread that he liked to tick the older hams off by being a dumbass on the air. We might as well get used to this guys.

There's some good folks that are new to hamradio. I'm not saying all are bad...but there's so many like this guy we're seeing in the thread here that just wants to do things and say stuff to make a fool out of himself and tick ham operators off. Simple as that. This type of person thrives on going against the grain. They dont want to fit in.. guess they just never grew up. I also hate to say this again but when the code is gone we will all see many many more of these types of persons on our hambands.

To the XE up the thread..HamdumbassMan doesnt know what you're talking about when you mentioned the Dx and Dx countries...He understands about "skipland"

All the operators here just need to get off these threads and let these fools have at each other. Its a waste of our time to be in here fussing with these cb types. We can take care of them though when they get on our hf freq's. They'll never belong and they always stick out like a sore thumb when they key the mic.

73
John WR8D
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K5TED on September 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I feel really sorry for you folks who live in these areas plagued by the CB scourge. Strange thing, though, I live in a major metro area, and travel to many metros around the country on a fairly regular basis, and have yet to hear even one instance of this behaviour on any repeaters anywhere. Where is all this stuff happening? Judging by the plethora of comments regarding these occurences, one might believe it's happening all over. It's not. No more prevalent than are the indiscretions on the HF bands.

Surely, from time to time on VHF/UHF one may hear a group of what sound like fairly new or non-technical hams chatting away about mundane topics for the more seasoned, serious, professional hams, and perhaps even uttering a cliche abbreviation or two, but outright rampant crazy CB talk on the repeaters? Isolated incidents. Misuse of the ham bands by experienced licensed operators? Quite common.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by HAM-MAN on September 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
TO John & Kent:

OK fellas, I'll get serious here for a moment...

I do have a big problem with you old timers. It's been my experience that you are all just a bunch of grumpy old bastards with shitty attitudes. Hell, you even piss each other off.

Kent, don't give me your Viet-Nam bullshit! If you were drafted and watched friends die then I respect you. I apologize for not being able to have been drafted, I enlisted and voulentered in 1991 to do "my part". But you old guys won't even give us the slightest bit of credit for that either. Which translates to your crappy attitude on the air.

As for John, you're just a moron!
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by WR8D on September 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Definition of "moron" in todays society also sometimes called "elite". Any ham it doenst matter if you passed 5wpm 13wpm or 20 wpm. We care about our bands. We love the brotherhood of amateur radio. We're good operators. We obey the rules and regulations. Some of us chase dx some work code some just like a good ragchew on ssb or am. We enjoy building and repairing our rigs. Enjoy making antennas. Some of us restore old gear point is we all belong to and are a part of a great amateur history. We did not say we were better than anyone. Some of you are insistant to tell us we are elite and all that. These terms being used against us are from those that cant or wont do anything to get a ham ticket. Those that just sit on there asses and want someone to give them something for nothing. It seems to piss these folks off when one of us brings this up. So be it! If the shoe fits..wear it! Also all of us arent old farts...or just plain old. But thats one thing that everyone cant run from. We all age..some of us have seen more than others in our life times. I have friends that can build hf amplifiers from scratch..others can build cw am transmitters from scratch. We dont feel superior to anyone infact we're always ready to help. All you "good" new folks to amateur radio probably will never have a problem on the bands. All you cbers will never fit in or belong to the ham community. Cber is a term used in a loose way. It means in this case any weirdo from cb that talks filth wants to not obey rules and proper operation practices. All of you arent bad like i said but the bad ones get all the attention and give everyone else a bad name.
Thanks for the compliment.
John WR8D "elite..extra class snob..moron..radio bully..old fart..living in the past..20 wpm extra"
Radio was a blast untill you cb trash types hit the bands:
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
HAM-MAN;

Thank you for a serious reply! I'm genuinely pleased to be able to address the person, and not just the "handle".

Before getting into the more mundane radio stuff, I want to say that you, and everyone who served in the '91 Conflict (and or course, the people currently serving in Afghanistan and Iraq) have my undying Respect and Gratitude! Your sacrifices are doubly impressive, because you made them voluntarily. Thank You from the bottom of my heart!

I didn't bring up my ancient history because I wanted to brag about it. Quite the contrary: I will never discuss those things. I simply wanted to make it clear that I could well understand why one might have feelings of hostility towards an older generation.

I think this illustrates an important point: The more we know about each other, the easier it is to like each other. I wish you'd tell us a little more about yourself. I have the distinct impression that you just might be one hell of a guy! (a little outspoken, maybe)

I know that you've grouped me in with the "Old Farts", but I really feel that this isn't entirely fair. Sure…..I'm getting older, but I'm a relatively new Ham. I don't use Code, and I don't feel that it should be a test criteria. I don't care if I EVER get HF privileges, as everything I'm interested in is happening on the VHF/UHF bands. I feel the CB still fills an important need, and that it's only real problem is that it is long overdue for restructuring and modernization.

In short, most of my opinions are contrary to the "Old Mainstream" party line.

How about if we try to get along?

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL



 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by HAM-MAN on September 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Kent,

Mabye you're not such an old fart after all. I sincerely apologize for my rudeness and I agree that placing all you guys in the same catagory isn't right. I guess I've been letting years of bad feelings towards the "older" hams finally regertate out into a stupid formum like this. It's just upsetting to me that there are virtually very few people within my age bracket who are hams. A couple of weeks I participated in a loca ARES event (for which I am a member) and although I was more than happy to help out, all the other guys there were in their 60's or 70's. I'm not saying that's bad, but it would be nice to see more people my own age. I guess there's nobody to blame for it, I just get the feeling that by being the youngest one around that I'm characterizied as a "young punk" under their breaths.

You seem like a stand-up guy and I apologize once again.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by XE1UFO on September 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
So what is “HAM-MAN” s real name? Give me and address and a phone number ... see if he is brave in person, or just hiding anonymously behind a keyboard.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by XE1UFO on September 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
So what is “HAM-MAN” s real name? Give me and address and a phone number ... see if he is brave in person, or just hiding anonymously behind a keyboard.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W4WLZ on September 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
The keyword ther is operate LEGALLY how many actually do that. That is the problem and that is why they are reffered to in a derogatory manner. Get real, we all have heard them. With the 10-04 good buddies and all the cussing going on. That is so far from Amatuer Radio, and what we stand for on the Ham Bands..
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by AE6IP on September 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
> The keyword ther is operate LEGALLY how many
> actually do that?

Most of them. Probably the same percentage as hams who operate legally -- high in both cases.

> That is the problem and that is why they are
> reffered to in a derogatory manner.

"They" are referred to in a derogatory manner because a few bad CBers have given the service a bad rep, and because, for reasons I can't fathom, some hams feel threatened by "them".

> Get real, we all have heard them.

I've just spent two weeks on the road, covering large parts of CA, OR, ID, MT, WY, and UT, with a CB on the whole time. In that entire 3000 mile trip, I heard *1* cuss word on CB.

> With the 10-04 good buddies and all the cussing
> going on.

There's nothing wrong with having a service specific slang. 10 codes are no more offensive than pro signs used on voice.

> That is so far from Amatuer Radio, and what we stand
> for on the Ham Bands..

Which, of course, is why REACT had more members at the peak of the CB craze than there were ham EMCOMM volunteers at that time.

I wonder what "we" stand for when "we" have to spend so much of "our" effort bad mouthing the users of another service. I'm sure glad most hams don't act like "we" do.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by AE6IP on September 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
> The writer said only a hand full of CB op's used
> illegal amp's and frequency's...I'as one who was
> very much involved with the CB world before becoming
> a ham can tell you the writer is dead wrong as
> would venture to guess at least 50% of CBer's when i
> was in Cb were illegal op's and i don't mean from
> over modulationplus all the CBer's i've ran into the
> 50% statement would still stand...Any Ham's who have
> full coverage can go down into the 400-on up part of
> 27mhz and listen when the band is open.....

It would take a great deal of evidence to convince me of this, as I've never encountered more tha a small percentage of CBers who were illegal in the last 30 years, while I have routinely encountered CBers who were playing by the rules.

As for listening, I've just finished a 3000 mile round trip throughout the western states with a CB radio, a 2m, and an FRS/GMRS. I never encountered any of the bad behavior described here. Not once. Not in California. Not in Nevada. Not in Oregon. Not in Idaho. Not in Montana. Not in Wyoming. Not in Utah.

Mostly, I encountered FRS/GMRS being used by road crews and people motorcycling in groups, CB among truckers, all of whom were just passing the time or looking for road info, and 2m among truckers (all apparently legal) and on local repeaters.

I don't know where all this horrible CB behavior is happening, but it sure isn't happening where I've been.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by AE6IP on September 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
> As a side note, I do personally believe that people
> who are willing to identify themselves are
> inherently more credible than people who can only
> speak from a position of anonymity.

Your experience and mine differ. I find no real distinction between the credibility of anonymous posters and the credibility of "identified" posters. Nor have I done so in 25 years of online experience.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Ham-Man;

Thanks for your kind words. Your apology is of course accepted, but you really didn’t have to do that on an open forum. The way I see it, “No Harm – No Foul”!

To tell the truth, I thought some of your earlier comments were actually pretty funny! I particularly liked the “Bevis and Butthead” thing. (Yes….., I realize, in retrospect, that my “sinking ship” analogy wasn’t very good.)

I’ve been giving a lot of thought to your comment about finding yourself the youngest Ham in your group. Just judging by what I have seen on these forums, that had to have been “a rough row to hoe”.

I guess I was lucky, in that I was dropped into the reverse situation. Working at the college, I find myself the oldest one in the program by about ten years. I get called “Pops” or “Sir” a lot, but there is no animosity. All of the students I have helped to get their TECH licenses are thrilled to be part of our program, love chasing Severe Weather, and are fascinated by our brand of Ham Radio.

I guess I just have to try to keep them away from Internet Forums. I was never treated badly by a “higher level” Ham until I started posting here. This forum was my first exposure to kind of elitists who equated a “NO CODE TECH” license with “Snot Nosed Ex-Cber”. These kids I work with are enthusiastic, bright, and curious: I don’t want to see them “burned” and discouraged.

I look forward to trading thoughts in the future.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
This was seen in a previous post:

>>>"Your experience and mine differ. I find no real distinction between the credibility of anonymous posters and the credibility of "identified" posters. Nor have I done so in 25 years of online experience."<<<


Really!

While I realize that it may fall into the category of "Anecdotal Evidence", let me suggest that you peruse the posts made by "FJGH" in the News Thread "Court Kicks New York Ham's 'Police Radio' Case:"

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL

 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W9WHE on September 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I never bother reading comments by Anonomyous posters. Just skip over them. I don't care what they have to say and neither should you. Pay them no attention. Their comments just don't matter.



 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by AE6IP on September 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
> I never bother reading comments by Anonomyous
> posters. Just skip over them. I don't care what they
> have to say and neither should you. Pay them no
> attention. Their comments just don't matter.

eHAM requires no proof of ID to register. Thus, we're all 'anonymous' posters, since none of us can prove we are who we claim we are.

that's just the way the net works. The only thing that matters is the comment, not the person making it.

 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by AE6IP on September 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
> >>>"Your experience and mine differ. I find no real
> distinction between the credibility of anonymous
> posters and the credibility of "identified" posters.
> Nor have I done so in 25 years of online
> experience."<<<


> Really!

> While I realize that it may fall into the category
> of "Anecdotal Evidence", let me suggest that you
> peruse the posts made by "FJGH" in the News
> Thread "Court Kicks New York Ham's 'Police Radio'
> Case:"

> Kent Carroll
> KB9YZL

I never said tht all anonymous posters were good people, only that the percentages seem to be the same between anonymous and non-anonymous. I could, if you'd like, find you some pretty vile stuff written here by people claiming to be using valid call signs.

That, of course brings up the second point: eHam requires no proof of ID, so there's no way to know if those of us using call signs are who we say we are.

I judge a poster by their posting, not by the id they use. your mileage may vary.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by OLDFART13 on September 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
CB is the future of ham radio. History has already proven this.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by N6HBJ on September 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Geez guys. Give it a rest already huh.

What are we back in 1978 or something? I heard this same EXACT paranoia about CBer's becoming Hams back in 1982. I've NEVER heard someone using a "handle" on the air. And rarely CB lingo. Usually with time, those people will adapt to the Ham terminology on their own.

Find something better to write about. This is so old.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KC8VWM on September 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Someone said:

Yes…….Rude behavior, vulgar language, and personal attacks can be unpleasant, and should not be tolerated. The trouble is, I personally have never received treatment on CB Channel 19 that is as bad as some I have seen here in these forums! Prove it to yourselves: go to any thread that is dealing with the “Code/No Code” issue and see for yourselves.

Reply:

Do you think the fact of even suggesting a CB vs. HAM column has anything to do with the aminosity that might exist?

Similarly, when we start a forum called "Code vs. No Code" then are we not predisposing ourselves to a "me against you" mentality to exist?

How about starting a GMRS vs Ham forum? Mabey a EMS dispatchers vs Ham forum?

Get the point?


KC8VWM



 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KC8VWM

I am the author of the quote you sited. I think you are willfully missing the point.

I have no problem with the expression of differing opinions: I raise objections when the tactics used to express those opinions are insult, personal attacks and general "flaming".

I sincerely hope you are not endorsing those tactics.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by NOCODING on September 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KC8VWM

I have had a RadioTelephone licence for a number of years, have operated multithousand watt HF systems. Accidentally use Roger when talking on the telephone...and listen to CB radio.

It is interesting that you said essentially that all truckers are dirty vulgar uneducated rednecks.

I assume by that, you have met all truckers?

I have been pursuing a ham licence to do my part in an emergency...there is no way I would even attempt code, I can listen to it, and interpret it...given enough time, but I have no intention to learn it.

But I'll tell you what, after reading these posts, I am having serious second thoughts on joining this group. A lot of slandarous statements have been made here; it disappoints me. I had assumed that ham operators were radio operators that behaved in an adult and professional manner.

Now I guess I was wrong. In my line of work, we use a registered callsign when on common use frequencies, but when on clear frequencies we use personal callsigns to get the comm to exactly the right person.

We don't cus on the radio, but sometimes people think out loud while holding the mic button...they are chastised (in a humourous way) in private, not over the radios.

In fact, any nonstandard radio calls are critiqued in private.


Out in the real world...

There are people with illegal rigs (or "modified" to use your lingo)

There are people that swear.

There are people that use CB radios.

There are people that are truckers.

They are not the same people all of the time.

To hear two people having a contest to see which one is the less professional on channel 19, does not mean that all truckers act that way.

What do I do?

I am a professional pilot, with experience with a major airline, and in the Military flying the B-52.

I have done HF phone patches halfway around the world.

But I will not learn code.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by WR8D on September 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
RE NOCODING: This really is not any of my business but maybe i can help a little. All truckers are not bad...All cbers are not bad. Come to Wva and you can hear good ones and bad ones from both groups. Most of the coal truck drivers here are rough necks and filthy mouthed. Not all of the cbers are bad folks but there are many that like to cuss and use every four letter word in the book on the air. Many of the comments you read are from folks like me that have had it up to the eyebrows with these types. Its not happening everywhere in the country but it is going on in many places. Most of the truckers here have those modified cb's that work on the 10 meter band and they are being heard on the lower portion of that band. As for you not learning the code or not wanting to learn it. Well you are a professional person. I'd love to have seen some of the things your eyes have seen sir. I know you're smart enough to learn the code simply because uncle sam does'nt turn just anyone loose with a B-52. The amateur world is about to change for many of us. Some of us are resisting this change but it will come. Those of us that love our hobby and are professional as you fear these changes. Just wait a little while untill these changes take place then you will find a spot on amateur radio. Being the professional that you are and the experiances in radio that you have had you'll have no problems making friends on hamradio. These rough comments that you see on these threads are not directed at folks like you. There are many that will bring "filth" to our bands and its these that we all are striking out at...but good folks read these comments and get upset at the attitudes of the authors.

73
John WR8D
Look forward to working you some day.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KC8VWM on September 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Mr. Kent Carrol said the following:

I sincerely hope you are not endorsing those tactics.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL

Reply,

Please read my article carefully. The informatrion provides an analysis of the "CB vs. HAM" matter. It is neutral and in no way reflcting if I am supporting any so called tactics as you described. What tactics?

This is not about a "for or against" mentality. It is merely pointing out why there may be such animosity that seems to exist between these two user groups.

There are no sides taken in my comments. Don't feel your comments have been singled out. This is not an attack on your own opinions expressed.

This information is provided as a detailed analysis of the facts from similar information that is readily provided and available from many users in this forum.

To which I have formed a reply in the good spirit of expressing my thoughts according to the manner in which this forum is intended to exist.

Charles Bushell
KC8VWM
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KC8VWM on September 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Dear Mr. Nocoder,

Again, let me reiterate the facts, you are implying or assuming that I that made the following comments in an earlier post,

"It is interesting that you said essentially that all truckers are dirty vulgar uneducated rednecks."

Your comment:
"I assume by that, you have met all truckers?"

If you go back and read the post you will notice that I placed quotations around what I have read from another user post.

In the english language, it is usually customary to do this when you are quoting another individuals comments.

I have not formed an opinion about truckers or anyone else for that matter. I was providing my comments in response to the comments you see in the quotations.

My response was analytical of those statements in nature.

PLEASE READ THE POSTS CAREFULLY.

Charles Bushell
KC8VWM

 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by VK6WB on September 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Today I hear VK full call operator and been on the
radio for so many years. he said " 88 to jody and 73
to you Ron" This is 20M band not a cb band.....
Well it's nothing wrong to say 10 code on the amateur
band is it?. Even i heard a lot on CB band the operator using Q code. So what...?
it's only minority CB'er are realy scumbag.
mainly who are those involve alcohol.......
all the best

de GUSTI, VK6WB
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by NEW2THEHOBBY on September 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Wow! I never knew that the topic of CB radio would bring on such strong reactions! As a kid I was on CB in the late '60s and'70s, and it really was loads of fun. The great thing back then was that there were so many people on it. There were at least 30 people with CB radios within a 10 block radius of where I lived, and I met so many friends and even found a few romances! Sure there was cussing and antenna wars, and a few jerks with the 200 watt linears with 200% modulation who bled all over the band, but what a thrill to turn on my Lafayette Comstat at 3 AM and speak to a guy a whopping 60 miles away! I admit that ham radio is in a different league, and the people are generally more curteous and way more savvy in the tech. dept., but CB always seemed to be a gathering of everyday people who just spoke their heart out and used CB as a giant party line. As rude and crude as CB was (and probably still is), it sure was fun. I still pop on it from time to time, and it amazes me how many familiar ham voices I hear on it! (of course they are using CB handles, so you can never be sure) :) By the way, the band is less crowded now than it was on the '70s, and it's a great place for hams to chat locally using inezpensive radios and antennas. The SSB people on CB can be really interesting, even (dare I say) "ham" like!
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KC8VWM on September 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

CB Operator Said,

"I admit that ham radio is in a different league, and the people are generally more curteous and way more savvy in the tech. dept., but CB always seemed to be a gathering of everyday people who just spoke their heart out and used CB as a giant party line. As rude and crude as CB was (and probably still is), it sure was fun."

Amateur Radio Operator Replies,

You are on the right track. Amateur Radio is about a gathering of people who share a like minded interest.

It sounds to me like you might be one of those people.

Pay no mind about the "Ham vs CB" mentality in our "perfect world." It has existed way too long.I believe many hams simply get some form of enjoyment from this ongoing debate about CB Radio operators.

The facts are that there are many CB operators that have already joined the Amateur Radio ranks.My feeling about this is that at least they have "experience" in radio communications. There are many that wan't to become Amateur Radio operators that don't have any radio communication experience at all!

I invite you to join us in our hobby as well and would encorage anyone else in the CB community reading these posts that has a spit of common sense such as yourself to become Amateur Radio operators.

Please indicate how I can be of any assistance to you.

73
Charles
KC8VWM



 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by NOCODING on September 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
First off I would like to apologize to KC8VWM for the misquote... (didn't see the upper quotation mark)
>
>"
>Have you listened to the truckers on Channel 19
>lately? From what I hear on there, they come across
>as the most vulgar, crude, uneducated bunch of
>miserable folks that could ever be. This is what we
>don't want ham radio to become."
>
>Have you ever wondered why they are employed then
>as "Truck Drivers" and not Corporate Executives?
>
>If the mentallity is as you describe, I would think
>it would be highly unlikely they would be so
>motivated to carry this over to ham radio. After all,
>they didn't seem motivated enough to become Corporate
>Executives, so what has changed in terms of becoming
>a member of the Amateur Radio Community?
>

However I still take a stand against the picture you are painting of professional truck drivers. To start out, most of the pros use company SATCOM/Datalink/VHF. They don't use CB and in a lot of trucks you won't find a CB radio. My family (inlaws) own a trucking buisness. They use the NEXTEL PTT system... again, they usually either don't have a CB, or don't have it turned on.

And BTW, they own the equipment, so that makes them the CEO, CFO etc...how much money do you have invested in your job...I don't have much in mine.

So the people garbaging up the CB are the same people who drive slow in the fast lane, the same people who can't use a turn signal, the same people who push their shopping cart down the wrong side of the aisle, then push it to their car and leave it there in the middle of the parking lot. They invented SPAM, viruses, and telemarketing.

SO lets fix it from the grass roots level. Teach your kids respect for others. Make your family members respect people they don't even know. If everyone did that, we, at least, would have people not driving slow in the fast lane.

I respect everyone I meet, even if I disagree with them, because it is the right thing to do. So again I correct my misquote of KC8VWM. It was a mistake, rather than an intentional piece of slander.

I try to set a positive example...I may make mistakes, but I always try to do better the next time.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KC8VWM on September 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Again, let me reiterate the facts.

THESE ARE NOT MY COMMENTS ABOUT TRUCK DRIVERS

I was commenting about another users post in this forum.

Did you miss something when I indicated the quotations?

Go back and read the post.

KC8VWM
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KC8VWM on September 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
HERE IS THE POST IF YOU NEED FURTHER CLARIFICATION

(NOTE THIS SECTION STARTS WITH ANOTHER USERS COMMENTS)

Someone said:

"Yes…….Rude behavior, vulgar language, and personal attacks can be unpleasant, and should not be tolerated. The trouble is, I personally have never received treatment on CB Channel 19 that is as bad as some I have seen here in these forums! Prove it to yourselves: go to any thread that is dealing with the “Code/No Code” issue and see for yourselves."


(-NOTE THIS SECTION AS MY REPLY)
Reply:

Do you think the fact of even suggesting a CB vs. HAM column has anything to do with the aminosity that might exist?

Similarly, when we start a forum called "Code vs. No Code" then are we not predisposing ourselves to a "me against you" mentality to exist?

How about starting a GMRS vs Ham forum? Mabey a EMS dispatchers vs Ham forum?

Get the point?


KC8VWM

Now if I might conclude here:

This was to suggest that perhaps we are predisposing ourselves by making comments about truckdrivers or others in these forums.

What part of that did you not understand?

KC8VWM
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KB9YZL on September 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KC8VWM;

I understood your post quite clearly. It was well written and logical.

I believe that my meaning was also clear when I said earlier; "I have no problem with the expression of differing opinions: I raise objections when the tactics used to express those opinions are insult, personal attacks and general "flaming".

My one and only point here is that we would all be much better off without the personal attacks and insults that seem to characterize this issue.

We have to ask ourselves; Are we trying to find a solution in these forums, or merely perpetuate old divisions?

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by N8YV on September 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
.....zzzz.....zzzzzz.......zzzz........zz.......zzzzzz.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W6TH on September 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Amazing of how many posts are from the CB'ers group and now have become hams.


Yet check again and see if there are more than 5 that have never been CB'ers. Nope, you won't find 5, but I see just one none CB'er.

How about that.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by WR8D on September 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
RE W6TH: Most are missing the point here. Most hams have nothing at all against cbers. Most of us have many new friends that just came off the cb band and have made good operators. On the other hand..most of us also know many that have come to amateur radio from the cb band in the last 2 years since the code was dropped to 5wpm. Some of these are just hardcore cb types. They cuss..use cb handles on our 2 meter machines and on hf freq's. We constantly have to remind them to id. Some of these types have been on cb for over 20 years and act like they're from the bottom of the bucket. Like i said not all are bad and again i know many that are very nice and have made good operators...but like many amateurs across the county i've had very bad experiances with the foul mouthed hardcore cb operator thats come to amateur radio..and here's the bottom line..refuses to become an amateur operator. Why study and get a ham ticket if you want to get on 2 meters and act like a fool or in the center of an extra class portion of any of our bands and use you cb handle? It just "ain't" right. But this is what all the fuss is about. We've tried to elmer these fools and they will not listen. Most times the elmer gets cussed out really good, so most of us are just plain ole fed up with cb types or cbers or chickbanders or what ever anyone wants to call them.

73
John WR8D
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by NN6EE on September 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
There will ALWAYS be name-calling Boys!!!

As there will always be "SPELLING COPS whether out here or on QRZ.Com!!!
****************************************************
Sent: This is so true!!!

Birllaint.... Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
****************************************************
Just like everybody out here is also an "ELITIST"!!!

If you don't think that that's true then everybody out HERE is a hypocrite!!!

Jim/nn6ee


 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KC8VWM on September 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I have no further comments to add to the forum,
...back to net control

 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W5RAH on September 22, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I was fortunate to grow up in a rural enviroment where we did not have the serious issued with CBers like some of the other persons who have commented earlier. CB was mainly used as a local way of communicating with others and it was actually pretty civil, not the trash talking and cursing like some have described. Like any, there were a few that deviated from the norm, but we even have that in ham radio. They were usually corrected and if they did not get their act together, no one cared to talk to them.

Anyway, as a teen we used CB to communicate with friends locally...as cellphones were very expensive and actually fairly new in the mid 80's. Now I used the interest in CB to get into SWL and thus learned about ham radio. I got my Novice when I was 16 and upgraded to the "old" Tech a couple of months later. I am an Extra now at 35.

With coming from CB, I knew that there was a difference in the way that one operated on the air, however, the way we operated on CB where I lived was not that much different, so the transition was easy.

It seems that CB like anything is what one makes of it and it seems like there are persons that have done their best to make a wreck out of it. Well the ham radio ranks certainly do not need people making a wreck out of our bands. Even the CB ranks don't need them giving CB a bad name. Being a CBer is not a bad thing, but being a bad CBer is. Then too, we also have Hams that would be bad CBers as well.

If we want to hold ourselves to a higher standard, then we should conduct our actions to the same high standard. Debate all we want about no-code, reduced CW levels, but remains the same that we all have to have some sort of interest to make us study and pass the exams. We can complain that the tests are "dumbed-down" but at least, someone took the time to study the material and either learned it or memorized the answers to a point where they could pass the test. In most other radio services, all you do is buy a radio, plug it in and talk.

The important thing is if you want the Amateur Radio Service to be looked at in high regard by other groups, such as emergency management agencies, public service agencies, etc., we have to maintain a certain image. Otherwise, if we look and sound like a bunch of clowns on the air, how can we really expect others to view us other than a bunch of clowns. The next time an emergency situation occurs, they would view us as a hinderance rather than an asset and this would strike at one of our core reasons for existance.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by WB2GOF on September 22, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
CB was my stepping stone into this here hobby. But I elarned to operate by watching. I watched and asked many questions before attempting to operate my own station. In those days, we had elmers; where are the elmers of today? Who will teach the youth of our hobby how a responsible Amateur should act? Are they those on 80 meters AM, cussing and fighting away like old biddies? Bitching away on the likes of eHam and QRZ.com? Is that the models of modicum they have to observe? Instead of name calling, whining, and flaming, why not go out and make a difference with a young operator today? I personally would like to repay my debt to this elmer by inducting another new operator to the bands!
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KE2IV on September 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Same old, same old. Over and over again.

Get a life...each and everyone of you!
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by NX5DX on September 26, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Where in the rulebooks does it say WHAT CODE to use on the Ham bands? As far as I know, nowhere. Just like other subjects on HF, they are mostly gentlemens agreements that became a standard.
Why do we use "Q" codes on voice? How did QSL become roger, over?
If someone says 10-4 to me on 17 meters, my first thought is, hum, don't hear that much on ham. Is it incorrect? no, not really. Did I understand the end of his(her)TX? Yep.
How many of us were proficient operators when we first started? How many of us really are now? Listen on the bands to the "upper crest license holders" and "old timers". It's amazing how much garbage that you can hear during a conversation on the air. It's also amazing how many rules are being infracted.
Before we go on the CB argument again, let's look at ourselves first.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by 2E0ALL on October 5, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
ok lets see,,,
i think cb was great as it gets u in to radio,,,
say some 50% might not now of ham radio at all,but then they see a friend with a box with a mic on it ,and says whats that,,,hummmmmmm
ooo can u realy do that ooo yes a cb ,, thats sounds good u can realy talk to all them people ,,well ant that amazzing,,,,
u now u have to start some where,,,
i can see some people points ,there are people that just shout and play music,,, my self i cant stand that ,,,they clog up the calling channle,,that ant fair,,,,,
there are people out there that just wont a good chat,,i mean come on lets not be hasty even on ham all u get is whats my s+ then 73.. but that ant every one,,
we should all give people a chance,,like same in a job ,,remember your first week working needed to now the ropes,,,,
i think ham radio is a very good thing theres so many people to talk to if there willing...
dont get upset 73,s and a good dx my friend
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KF6HCD on May 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I am a CBer AND a ham... I started out as a SWL, got into CB as a boy, then as an adult, became enamored by ham radio. I use proper operating procedures on both services; that is to say that I speak on ham frequencies using language and words that my mother could listen to without being ashamed of me... When I talk on CB, my language is still as above, but I use the slang and style of my CB peers.
I enjoy radio for what it is; to me, it is a way to meet new people, experiment and to learn more and more about it.
I also use MURS, FRS, 49MHz and any other form of RF communications I can legally get my hands on.
On CB, I ignore those who use foul language, and on ham I ignore those who do not operate within the definition of "good engineering practice" or those who use foul language. However, I do not dun or attempt to correct those who are new to the hobby, nor do I chastize those who use "CB" language on ham frequencies. I prefer to "live and let live" and let my operatinos be an example to others who just haven't yet gotten into the swing of things.
There is no reason to lessen ourselves by resorting to namecalling and flaming. Why do we as people stoop to the level of namecalling and flaming, instead of using our language to communicate? Why must we use language as a weapon? Sorry for the rhetoric, but reading some of these posts I am amazed that a group of mature adults must revert to childish behavior.
We should all just back off a little bit and get over ourselves.
73, Ken.
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by K8CNN on August 29, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted By K8CNN

Hello All

I feel it is long overdue to create a LEAGEL place for the "Not quite CB'er" and "Not quite Ham" to have a place to explore the hobby!

I think it would be a good idea to let the CB'er have the so called
"Free Band" space 27.405 Mhz to 28.000 Mhz. and make it a shared band with the Ham Radio Community.

I look at it this way, Ten's of Thousands of CB'ers are useing this protion of the band now, And as much as we all talk about FCC inforcment, Fines, etc. Its just a fact of life that the C.B. "FreeBanders" are just not going to go away anytime soon! (Right?)

So why not take advantage of an eager to learn, potental pool of future Hams?

The people on the "FreeBand" are more intrested in radio than just the typical C.B.er, "got it at Radio Shack for $30.00 "Good Buddy" operator", You know this true, as most of them have invested at least a couple hundred bucks for an import radio, or ham gear.

So why not make it a LEAGEL C.B. and Ham Radio Band?
Give the C.B.ers a chance to talk to the Ham Radio Community, and start them thinking it might be a good idea to become a Ham, after all, a lot of us Ham's started out as CB'ers (Remember?)

I admit, Once I became a Ham, my intrest in C.B. went away, but I moved onto Repeaters, ham TV, IRLP, Cross Banding Projects, and much more! However what I leared in my C.B. days was a good foundation to the hobby!

Plus I met up with a few Hams that were on C.B. way back in the day,
and I owe the fact that I went on to become a Ham to them.
Thanks, to now silent key "Gary WB8WAF" who took the time to show me about Ham Radio and all it had to offer, Whom I would have never met if not for C.B. Radio.

So I think a mutual meeting place, or "Band" would be a great recruiting tool for the Ham Radio ranks.

Thanks, K8CNN Tom 73
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by W1GFH on March 14, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"I think it would be a good idea to let the CB'er have the so called "Free Band" space 27.405 Mhz to 28.000 Mhz. and make it a shared band with the Ham Radio Community.

I look at it this way, Ten's of Thousands of CB'ers are useing this protion of the band now, And as much as we all talk about FCC inforcment, Fines, etc. Its just a fact of life that the C.B. "FreeBanders" are just not going to go away anytime soon! (Right?)

So why not take advantage of an eager to learn, potental pool of future Hams?"


*****

If the tens of thousands illegally operating in the freeband want to enjoy the privileges of ham radio all they have to do is take a simple test like everyone else did. It really isn't that hard.
 
Name Calling and CB Radio  
by KG4LSI on July 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
The use of bad manners and foul grammer is destroying
our hobby.I have run into this more often on the 75 -80 meter band.I do not know if these people were CBers or not.I have been treated better by CBers.this seems to me a verry sad state of afairs.The main reason I came to ham radio is my love of electronics.I can never seem to satify it.this requires some math which I have noticed These foul speaking people will not learn.Their to busy saying the nasty things that they love.I suggest if something on circuits types and ohms law that you must work on paper and not A,B,C,orD.
On the testing procedure would be a greater set back to these people then morse code.I am for keeping the code at all cost.
It is to important to let it go.We may yet have a great need for it. Only time will tell.
It would make A great difference in the quality of people that come into our hobby.That it may still pioneer electronics as it has allways done .
73s
KG4LSI
 
RE: Name Calling and CB Radio  
by A9KW on June 7, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
ditto
 
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.

Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help

Related News & Articles
The Great White Vanity Callsign -- WI7B


Other Editorial Articles
Dead Electrical Dudes 22 and 23
Astro QSL Cards