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Author Topic: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015  (Read 135513 times)

N4WWL

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2015, 12:54:22 PM »

The application process for AF MARS normally flows through the State MARS Director (SMD), who signs and forwards the application up the chain.  That way the SMD and Region Director know who is applying and can contact them to help with any questions or provide assistance prior to issuance of their MARS license.  But in the case of Navy MARS transfers, feel free to forward an application directly to AF MARS HQ at 38CYRS.SCM.mars@us.af.mil.  The Chief will forward it to the appropriate SMD.

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W6EM

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2015, 06:29:19 PM »

Probably the most disturbing thing coming from this is that NMC MARS is an institution.  It has been around for what, about 50 years?  Through Vietnam and up until now.  Serving those who serve and more.

Over the course of that time, many have contributed a lot of time and effort to it.  And, I’m sure that it has or had a hierarchy where some of its members did a lot more than most.  State Directors, maybe Region Directors, but for sure, a lot of people who’ve taken on more than just checking into nets.  Now, I suppose all of those folks will just fade into the woodwork.  Start at the bottom of the Army or Air Force MARS ladders as new members, should they want to continue.

Although I wasn’t a permanent net control during my stint with Army MARS in the past, I was the CenCA technical manual coordinator and had a library of about 200 manuals that I frequently mailed out to members needing information.  Not a big task, but it took time and space beyond just net check-ins.  When we moved to FL, I left that behind.  I eventually resigned as there were some leadership issues at the time.

So, the NMC MARS Director is saying fold the 50-year program in a half-dozen semi-cryptic sentences.  Individual letters from senior Naval or Marine Corps officers thanking each member for their service would be the least that should have been done.  Just telling them via a broadcast message to apply to one of the other branches is an insult to their dedication and service to the nation.  Especially to those who invested a lot more than minimal time and commitment.

Volunteers aren’t paid with anything but rations of “feel goods.”  So, if there’s no thank you’s, praise or accolades to feed the effort, then the urge to volunteer subsides or goes away completely.  Or worse: If the “feel goods” are replaced with insults and embarrassments, then it only speeds the run for the exits.  It’s amazing how many leaders of volunteer organizations don’t get that.  Look at attrition rates from volunteer organizations and you can quickly judge leadership accomplishment versus leadership failure.  It’s not rocket science.

73.

Lee
W6EM

 


« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 07:09:15 PM by W6EM »
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WD8DBY

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2015, 07:10:30 PM »

Start at the bottom of the Army or Air Force MARS ladders as new members, should they want to continue.

From an impromptu post-Dayton Hamvention parking lot meeting at our hotel, the Chief of AF MARS and the Army MARS Program Manager both agree that this is not a competition to see who can recruit more Navy MARS members.  Our goal is to make the process of transferring from Navy to another Service as smooth and painless as possible.  Our preference is to keep Navy MARS members supporting the DOD and the Services in the MARS program regardless if you go Army or Air Force.  Your experience, dedication, and desire to support our military is too great an asset to let slip away.  Here are the salient points briefed at the MARS Forum and discussed at the MARS booth:
 
- Navy MARS members in good standing transfer to both Army and AF MARS as full members...they do not start over.  Navy members still in training status will continue in training regardless of the Service they choose.  

- Letters of resignation are not required as the member is not resigning...they are transferring to another Service.  

- Both Army and AF MARS leadership concur that if Navy members want to keep their Navy call until the end of the program, they should still send their transfer request forms to the Service of their choice ahead of the 30 Sep date for processing but date/time stamp them for 2359 on 30 September.  

- Navy members who are SHARES authorized by Navy, will have to complete the SHARES form one as an update after they receive their new MARS call sign.  The form ones will then be sent to SHARES so they can update their database.  You will continue to support SHARES.

- Navy members who operate Winlink RMS', will have to change over to their new MARS call sign and change their operating frequencies to their new Service Winlink frequencies.

- Navy members who cannot decide to which Service they should transfer, Army and AF MARS leaders concur that the Navy member should check in to the other Service Region or State nets to see if that helps them to decide which way they would like to go.  

- The decision as to which MARS Service Navy members should transfer to is a personal decision.  MARS leadership cannot dictate which Service you must choose.

- There is no plan to change the Joint MARS patch.  Army and Air Force MARS will continue to support all branches of the DOD just as we always have.

- Navy members who operate VHF repeaters, digipeaters, etc. must inform the Service to which they transfer to ensure that spectrum authorizations are also transferred.

- Army MARS has requested that Navy transfer a block of the Navy MARS spectrum to be retained in support of Army and AF MARS to supplement our support to the DOD.

If there are other questions that Navy members have about the process, they should contact:

Paul English, Army MARS Program Manager, paul.a.english.civ@mail.mil
or
Dave Stapchuk, Chief AF MARS, david.stapchuk2@us.af.mil    

    
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 07:16:47 PM by WD8DBY »
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NK7Z

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2015, 08:50:52 PM »

Thank you!  That was informative!
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Thanks,
Dave
Amateur Radio: RFI help, Reviews, Setup information, and more...
https://www.nk7z.net

W6EM

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2015, 04:54:49 AM »

.......I used to be in Army MARS but left when all personal comments were forbidden. The 15 to 30 seconds of personal comments per person during a net is the difference between something enjoyable and something boring.

Army MARS has done far more changes than just prohibiting personal comments. Over the past few years Army membership numbers have plummeted from over 5000 members to under 1000 members including those outside the USA. Dropout rates among new members is high. When  membership dropped in half, Army didn't care nor change. When Army membership dropped to one quarter, Army didn't care. There are several characteristics of Army MARS that Navy MARS members admired, but Army MARS appears to be dying by dwindling membership, and the leadership appears to not care.

This says it all.  If DoD wants to continue the program, whether with individual components or consolidated into one MARS, this is not the leadership example to be given overall responsibility.
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N3ZH

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2015, 06:14:48 AM »

The Navy Marine Corp Mars Maryland State Director has found the following web page

http://www.marsregionone.org/App/Join-New.html

This webpage has a link to an application form, and another link to a list of the Air Force Mars State Directors for several states: Delaware, Maryland, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, and West Virginia.

I had sent a slightly different North Central Command web page application to the wrong state director who said he is forwarding the files to the AF MD State Director.  So most likely I will not need to reapply in the proper way.

I am posting this to help others who may find the application process confusing.
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N4WWL

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2015, 06:53:13 AM »

Unfortunately some of this information is outdated.  If anyone is interested in who their respective AF MARS State MARS Director is you may contact me at N4WWL@ARRL.NET.  But let me reiterate my earlier comment that any Navy-Marine Corps MARS member wishing to transfer to Air Force MARS may, if they prefer, submit an application directly to the Chief of AF MARS at  38CYRS.SCM.mars@us.af.mil.  We are looking to streamline the transfer process as much as possible. 

Dave
National Planning Coordinator
USAF MARS
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W9ADY

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2015, 09:18:38 AM »

Start at the bottom of the Army or Air Force MARS ladders as new members, should they want to continue.

- Navy members who cannot decide to which Service they should transfer, Army and AF MARS leaders concur that the Navy member should check in to the other Service Region or State nets to see if that helps them to decide which way they would like to go.  
 

And how to we find the net freqs. & times?
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N3ZH

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2015, 09:34:53 AM »

On the Navy Marine Corp Mars website, are the frequencies for all three Mars services.

Access is protected by password.

If you do not have access, then ask your Navy Marine Corp Mars state director

Net schedules seem more difficult to get.
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N1IN

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2015, 09:42:34 AM »

For an institution dedicated to communicating, MARS has long suffered from misunderstanding and misinformation. This not only shows in these blogs. I suspect miscommunication goes a long way to explaining the demise of Navy-Marine Corps MARS in the first place.
     There’s no better example of “poor propagation conditions” than the member who quit Army MARS because social chatter was prohibited on the networks.
    He didn’t get the point that military frequencies are designed for war-fighting, not rag-chewing.  But neither did the masters of MARS understand that our nets are the only place where widely-dispersed members can become acquainted and build the relationships so important to smooth operating. Unlike the active army, we don’t have daily meeting places like squad rooms and mess halls and service clubs.
    It seems to me the ill feeling being expressed over the NMCM shutdown needs to be addressed head-on by the two surviving MARS branches. Transparency is particularly in order while Navy MARS members are considering transfer,
     Of course, that’s just my personal opinion. As a former public affairs staffer I’m probably as much to blame as anyone if miscommunications persist. So here is some history on the membership loss mentioned in previous postings—again, personal opinion.
     Hurricane Katrina revealed deficiencies in most areas of response and one result was government-wide adoption of the National Incident Management System.  Reacting, ,ARMARS conducted a mandatory all-members retraining program. It was arduous and some failed to complete it, forfeiting membership.
    Army MARS imposed the requirement for a general class license so applicants wouldn’t have to be trained on HF radio and would he familiar with the equipment. It was as simple as that. There was a drop-off of members unwilling to take the general exam.
        Then came the terrorist and cyber threats and the DoD’s sudden awareness that MARS is the only nationwide communications system not dependent on vulnerable infrastructure.
   Not only did army-style net discipline become essential; to achieve seamless connectivity with the DOD communications system, MARS stations had to adopt an irksome military digital mode PLUS encryption technology).  Extended national communications drills became routine. (At my age, I well understand why a number of members were reluctant to start learning all over again!)
       But the largest drop of all was illusory:  It was discovered that a faulty records system had failed to subtract retired or deceased members from the roster while adding new ones over a period of years. (No, headquarters did not issue a news release on that discovery).
      The point, of course, is that in less than a decade MARS has grown from a diminished remnant of the MARSgram era to a major player in national survival planning. It is indeed more challenging to be a member. Some of us have found it rewarding as never before.
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NA4IT

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2015, 10:54:17 AM »

One of the ticking off points for me before I left, was that during Katrina, it was stated "If you don't have an amp and a dual receive HF rig, you can't be NCS. Intelligent... that was Army MARS RGN 4.
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W9ADY

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2015, 01:39:22 PM »

On the Navy Marine Corp Mars website, are the frequencies for all three Mars services.

Access is protected by password.

If you do not have access, then ask your Navy Marine Corp Mars state director

Net schedules seem more difficult to get.

How difficult would it be for National Army & AF MARS to direct their state directors to send messages to NAVCOR MARS members with net schedules and frequencies?  They could be sent to state NAVCORMARS directors for distribution.
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N1EN

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2015, 02:24:37 PM »

How difficult would it be for National Army & AF MARS to direct their state directors to send messages to NAVCOR MARS members with net schedules and frequencies?  They could be sent to state NAVCORMARS directors for distribution.

I imagine that asking on a net, or contacting one's state director would be one way to get that information.

Besides, we've had, what, just under a week since the news came out, with some of those days perhaps lost to due to Dayton.  I would hope/expect that in coming weeks, as NMC regions and states work out their shutdown plans, some more organized information will come down the chain of command, including useful information like net plans for the sunset period, reminders of where/when the other services' nets are, any special addresses of where to send transfer applications, etc.
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W6EM

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2015, 03:06:27 PM »

I am frequently amazed by media accounts of “dot mil” and “dot gov” email server invasions and such.  And, how such things are worrisome to national security.

Those in responsible charge are derelict if they rely on public Internet network access for sensitive or higher level classified communications.

Suffice it to say, that at least our Department of Energy, steward of our nuclear weapons, has a completely isolated (from the Internet) system for sensitive and classified communications.  Together with physical separation constraints at terminals.  Most energy utilities with any competence in their organizations have built similar, isolated communications and control pathways to avoid nefarious intruders.

So, it comes as quite a surprise to read that Army MARS members are now expected to use encrypted digital modes so that they can be the back up conduit for the main pathway, should that fail.  I don’t have a need to know what the main pathway is, so do not respond with any explanation. 

If the main conduit for sensitive and classified Department of Defense communications is the public Internet, or is connected to it in any way but read-only, our government has a lot of work to do.  To build other pathways which are isolated so that they can be assured that high level communications, data and control systems are not compromised or intercepted.

Traditional HF radio was replaced by spread spectrum for sensitive unit level communications many moons ago.  The late actress Heddy Lamar’s invention is by far the most reliable and secure means for HF communication, and its been around since she thought of it during or shortly after WWII.  If the Department of Defense wants to rely on single channel HF, even though encrypted, for vital second level, it is a huge mistake.  As hams we have probably all witnessed idiots jamming HF and VHF communications.  Tell me that such behavior by those with unfriendly intentions would not be disruptive to single-channel HF communications, irrespective of mode.

If indeed the Department of Defense wants to use HF radio volunteers for a second level platform, then provide them with suitable equipment (like in the old days, issue some radios) such as HF spread spectrum radios with encryption capability.  Perhaps that has been done or is being done.  If not, it is nothing short of idiotic to think that single-channel or even multiple channel plans that can be changed are a suitable, undefeatable system.

 

Just my two cents.

73.

W6EM




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N1EN

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2015, 03:33:02 PM »

So, it comes as quite a surprise to read that Army MARS members are now expected to use encrypted digital modes so that they can be the back up conduit for the main pathway, should that fail.

I think you might be reading more into IN's comments than was actually there.

Just because an awareness of one of the shortcomings in national infrastructure in the wake of Katrina may have sparked an evolution in MARS' mission, it doesn't mean that those shortcomings aren't being addressed in other ways.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 03:39:21 PM by N1EN »
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