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Author Topic: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015  (Read 135514 times)

N4JQQ

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2015, 06:34:39 AM »

All I can say is let's wait a couple of months and see if the served agencies in TN still have their Army MARS licenses.  If not, your answer is hypothetical/theoretical.  If they do and are able to communicate, then there won't be a problem.  But, the ARMY did say corporate licenses would be revoked immediately and notification of civil agencies that their licenses would be revoked would begin.  That is the actual effect on served agencies.
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W3JKS

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #61 on: May 22, 2015, 11:48:16 AM »

All I can say is let's wait a couple of months and see if the served agencies in TN still have their Army MARS licenses.  If not, your answer is hypothetical/theoretical.  If they do and are able to communicate, then there won't be a problem.  But, the ARMY did say corporate licenses would be revoked immediately and notification of civil agencies that their licenses would be revoked would begin.  That is the actual effect on served agencies.

If that were to happen, it was certainly destroy whatever credibility MARS might have remaining in the preparedness arena.
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N9VMO

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2015, 03:36:58 AM »

[SNIP] But, the ARMY did say corporate licenses would be revoked immediately and notification of civil agencies that their licenses would be revoked would begin. [SNIP]

I have only seen this statement on this forum.  When and where was this statement made and by whom?
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N4JQQ

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2015, 06:43:46 AM »

If you are a MARS member, contact me direct and I will refer you to the US Army MARS document.
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N9VMO

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2015, 07:19:56 AM »

PM Sent
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WD8DBY

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2015, 06:16:48 PM »

[SNIP] But, the ARMY did say corporate licenses would be revoked immediately and notification of civil agencies that their licenses would be revoked would begin. [SNIP]


To set the record straight...I have stated in various leadership forums that once the new MARS Civil Support document is approved, we would begin revoking corporate licenses immediately.  Corporations are not civil authorities and are not eligible for DOD civil support and they have legitimate means of obtaining contingency HF support through the FCC. 

For civil agencies, again, once the MARS Civil Support document is approved, HQs would begin contacting all agencies we currently support and describing the changes being implemented and what the request process will be.  Until the document is approved, we continue with status quo.

Paul, Army MARS Program Manager 
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W6EM

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #66 on: May 24, 2015, 07:31:59 PM »

[SNIP] But, the ARMY did say corporate licenses would be revoked immediately and notification of civil agencies that their licenses would be revoked would begin. [SNIP]


To set the record straight...I have stated in various leadership forums that once the new MARS Civil Support document is approved, we would begin revoking corporate licenses immediately.  Corporations are not civil authorities and are not eligible for DOD civil support and they have legitimate means of obtaining contingency HF support through the FCC. 

For civil agencies, again, once the MARS Civil Support document is approved, HQs would begin contacting all agencies we currently support and describing the changes being implemented and what the request process will be.  Until the document is approved, we continue with status quo.

Paul, Army MARS Program Manager 
So, to be fair, the corporations that are now part of SHARES (utilities) should be kicked out as well, right?  If not, please elaborate.
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W3JKS

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2015, 05:02:47 AM »

So, to be fair, the corporations that are now part of SHARES (utilities) should be kicked out as well, right?  If not, please elaborate.

No, SHARES is not even a DoD program, it is operated by the Dept of Homeland Security and participation by telecom utilities is part of the charter ("infrastructure").
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W6EM

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2015, 06:20:24 AM »

So, to be fair, the corporations that are now part of SHARES (utilities) should be kicked out as well, right?  If not, please elaborate.

No, SHARES is not even a DoD program, it is operated by the Dept of Homeland Security and participation by telecom utilities is part of the charter ("infrastructure").
But, staffed/controlled by MARS members.  So, I guess we can add this to a long list of federal inconsistencies that make no sense.

Also, the DoD directive referenced earlier requires that DoD entities request reimbursement for services rendered to served entities.

Sure would be interesting for FEMA to ask the cities and states to reimburse it for disaster assistance.



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N4JQQ

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #69 on: May 25, 2015, 09:43:24 AM »

Paul English, are the civil agencies going to be issued ARMY MARS callsigns and be able to access the WL2K network for their own comms?  Comms that have nothing to do with the Army mission?  Is there even going to be a WL2K system under Army MARS?  The leadership has stated that no ARMY MARS member is required to have the ability to operate via PACTOR.  That is what we are all getting at here in this conversation.  It would appear to a logical person that if an ARMY MARS member is not required or encouraged to have WL2K capability then ARMY MARS has no intention of utilizing it in the future.  I realize that all the decisions have not been made but I go back to my original point.  There are a ton of civil agencies that have invested in the WL2K infrastructure.  They are wondering if that money has been wasted.  Further, this includes a lot of hospitals.  I think you have made it clear that the hospitals are losing or have lost their licenses.  Did you even think of this when you made this decision?  As for civil agencies losing their MARS licenses, this was stated in ARMY MARS talking points that were released recently.  Did you change your mind?  Serious question.

Personally, I think there is much more significant chance of a hospital needing to use the resources of the MARS system than the ARMY needing to use the MARS system to pass critical message traffic.  Or non-critical message traffic.

V/R
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W2RWJ

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #70 on: May 25, 2015, 02:14:10 PM »

Personally, I think there is much more significant chance of a hospital needing to use the resources of the MARS system than the ARMY needing to use the MARS system to pass critical message traffic.  Or non-critical message traffic.

Steven,
Should a Hospital wish to utilize HF radio for emergency communications,  they can contract with Intrado for access to WLO  (AKA ShipCom)   This is in-place and available.  

The question is should they have to?  Hospitals fall under ESF8, Public Health.   It makes more sense to have them directly authorized to participate in SHARES, using a SHARES call sign, not a back door via the MARS program.

73 Martin Flynn
W2RWJ


« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 02:21:51 PM by W2RWJ »
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N1EN

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #71 on: May 25, 2015, 03:51:46 PM »

It's probably worth noting that guidance as to the transition of agencies with Navy MARS calls has not been released yet.

If one or the other continuing MARS services has concerns with what agencies have access to MARS callsigns, it stands to reason that those concerns would be reflected in the guidance when it is eventually released.

It might be wise to QRX on that particular debate, at least until there's something more substantive than speculation based on incomplete information to work with.
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WD8DBY

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #72 on: May 26, 2015, 02:52:25 PM »

Paul English, are the civil agencies going to be issued ARMY MARS callsigns and be able to access the WL2K network for their own comms?  Comms that have nothing to do with the Army mission?  Is there even going to be a WL2K system under Army MARS?  The leadership has stated that no ARMY MARS member is required to have the ability to operate via PACTOR.  That is what we are all getting at here in this conversation.  It would appear to a logical person that if an ARMY MARS member is not required or encouraged to have WL2K capability then ARMY MARS has no intention of utilizing it in the future.  I realize that all the decisions have not been made but I go back to my original point.  There are a ton of civil agencies that have invested in the WL2K infrastructure.  They are wondering if that money has been wasted.  Further, this includes a lot of hospitals.  I think you have made it clear that the hospitals are losing or have lost their licenses.  Did you even think of this when you made this decision?  As for civil agencies losing their MARS licenses, this was stated in ARMY MARS talking points that were released recently.  Did you change your mind?  Serious question.

Personally, I think there is much more significant chance of a hospital needing to use the resources of the MARS system than the ARMY needing to use the MARS system to pass critical message traffic.  Or non-critical message traffic.

V/R

Steve, as you know, MARS is a military auxiliary whose primary mission is to support DOD and the Services with contingency HF communications.  Under the concept we are moving towards...when a civil authority requests DSCA support and it is approved, MARS can provide communications to support civil authorities for a limited amount of time.  Defense Support to Civil Authorities is a short term communications capability provided to supplement civil agencies when their capabilities are overwhelmed.  DSCA was never intended to be a full time comms capability for use by the civil authorities "for their own comms."

Army MARS members who use pactor and winlink may continue using those capabilities.  We have never required MARS members to spend ~$1400-1800 on a pactor modem.  Just like we have never required MARS members to buy hardware ALE radios.  If in the future a hospital is no longer able to use their winlink equipment on MARS frequencies, they can certainly use that equipment on amateur radio frequencies...the equipment need not sit on a shelf collecting dust.     
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WD8DBY

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #73 on: May 26, 2015, 02:59:54 PM »

So, to be fair, the corporations that are now part of SHARES (utilities) should be kicked out as well, right?  If not, please elaborate.

No, SHARES is not even a DoD program, it is operated by the Dept of Homeland Security and participation by telecom utilities is part of the charter ("infrastructure").
But, staffed/controlled by MARS members.  So, I guess we can add this to a long list of federal inconsistencies that make no sense.

Also, the DoD directive referenced earlier requires that DoD entities request reimbursement for services rendered to served entities.

Sure would be interesting for FEMA to ask the cities and states to reimburse it for disaster assistance.

Lee,

SHARES is not staffed or controlled by MARS members.  SHARES has two DHS gov civilians who manage the program and three contractors who run the day to day operations.

DOD reimbursement requirements are one of the steps in the DOD directive for DSCA...reimbursement is not a factor I am including in the MARS Civil Support process document we are writing.  I consider the MARS HF Spectrum to be a sunk cost that is not directly reimbursable by the civil authorities that we provide support to under the DSCA concept. 

v/r

Paul   
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W6EM

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RE: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015
« Reply #74 on: May 27, 2015, 04:03:55 PM »

So, to be fair, the corporations that are now part of SHARES (utilities) should be kicked out as well, right?  If not, please elaborate.

No, SHARES is not even a DoD program, it is operated by the Dept of Homeland Security and participation by telecom utilities is part of the charter ("infrastructure").
But, staffed/controlled by MARS members.  So, I guess we can add this to a long list of federal inconsistencies that make no sense.

Also, the DoD directive referenced earlier requires that DoD entities request reimbursement for services rendered to served entities.

Sure would be interesting for FEMA to ask the cities and states to reimburse it for disaster assistance.

Lee,

SHARES is not staffed or controlled by MARS members.  SHARES has two DHS gov civilians who manage the program and three contractors who run the day to day operations.

DOD reimbursement requirements are one of the steps in the DOD directive for DSCA...reimbursement is not a factor I am including in the MARS Civil Support process document we are writing.  I consider the MARS HF Spectrum to be a sunk cost that is not directly reimbursable by the civil authorities that we provide support to under the DSCA concept. 

v/r

Paul   
Paul:
Perhaps just semantics.  “In charge” was meant to mean net control stations, etc., for SHARES nets.  After all, you’re telling NMC MARS members to re-request SHARES authorization.  They're the 'boots on the ground.'

Not surprised about DoHS using contractors.  After all, Army MARS uses (or used to use) Akima Corporation employees as Area Directors.  I don’t think ether AF or NMC uses or ever used contractors in place of volunteers.

It’s simply amazing to me that you can’t find support/service roles to assist each branch in some way.  MARS members could teach communications techniques, antennas, and field deployment of radio equipment.

What motivated so many in the past to join was knowing that the overall purpose of MARS was to serve those who serve and their families.

With all of the National Guard units and with budget sequestration and severe constraints, it would seem the highest priority from DoD would be finding ways to make do with auxiliary members as instructors if at all possible.  And, above all, fire all contractors supporting MARS.
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