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Author Topic: DXing using RTTY  (Read 14806 times)

WO7R

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2015, 10:24:12 AM »

Quote
My Ten-Tec Eagle is rated for 100W in heavy RTTY use (proven by tens of thousands of RTTY contest QSO's). I know the IC-7410 is also rated for 100W in RTTY use.

Then by all means run it at 100 in that case.  Great for owning a rig like that.  I have not yet owned such a rig (perhaps it should be in my shopping list next time?).  If I did, I would certainly run it at 100.

In matters this basic, I would RTFM and follow it.  If they recommend reduced power, presumably, those that engineered the rig have a reason, probably along the lines I cited or maybe some other cause.  It would be a competitive advantage to tout running full power for RTTY (and, for that matter, AM which also seems to often recommend 40 to 60 watts when it runs SSB at 100).
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M0TTB

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2015, 10:30:11 AM »

I started rtty with K1N, been enjoying it ever since. I just use my Icom with it's macros and a wireless keyboard. Now 141 entities, 6 away from digi dxcc on LoTW.
I did get an ATNO on rtty, C21EU... then I got them 2 hours later on ssb.

My memories of rtty in my swl days with an old commodore c64 weren't fantastic, Eastern EU was about all I remember getting a decent print from.

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W2IRT

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2015, 11:24:01 AM »

I have a love/hate relationship with RTTY. It's quite fun in non-pressure situations and I like a nice run in that mode every so often. But you'll never find me contesting in RTTY, that's for sure. DXing is a different beast. When you're working run-of-the-mill entities it's not hard, but pileups for the rare ones are insane since most DXpeditions focus on CW and SSB. I'm sitting at 317 entities confirmed on RTTY, all using FSK (never AFSK), and pretty well all of them at 1500W; at least all the rare ones. I'll still throw out my call with stock power every so often and see who replies.

I would strongly recommend to the original poster to look for an interface that allows true FSK keying, not AFSK. There are two huge reasons for this. First, with AFSK, you always have to remember to disable compression and turn down your mic gain so you don't overdrive it. Second, and this one is a bigger pain in the tuchus, when you're trying to work a DX station who's operating split, you'll see the QSX frequency posted on the cluster, but you have to remember to add 2.125 kHz to the spotted QSX. Using real FSK you don't worry about any of that. Even old RigBlasters will allow you to do real FSK, so skip the SignalLink and do it right.

And as one other posted mentioned, it's all about macros. No brag files on RTTY! I have only 5 macros for RTTY that I use regularly and they work great. Two for DXing and 3 for running. For DXing I use these two:

<mycall> <mycall> <mycall> K
DE <mycall> 599 TU. Some would argue I shouldn't even send my call in the reply but in RTTY it does help.

Running:
CQ CQ CQ de <mycall> <mycall> <mycall>  PSE K
<hiscall> <hiscall> 599 <hiscall> BK
TU <mycall> QRZ UP
(or just QRZ)

My macros also include TX/RX switching and logging each QSO, but that's the syntax that goes over the air. That's all you need. But what's funny is that you get into a pattern working a pileup like that, either calling-and-hoping or running a pile, but then someone breaks pattern and sends something unexpected. That's when I fumble for the TX button and start typing. The most fun one of those was Krish on VU4 and VU7 a while back. Pileups were insane, I'm using a 0x3 calling macro over and over for about an hour; I get through and Krish breaks his usual macro routine and says "HI PETER". Made my day. Heck, it made my month! I did fumble around and had to shake the macro-induced cobwebs out enough to fashion a live reply -- quickly.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2015, 11:27:25 AM by W2IRT »
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

KB3LIX

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2015, 11:49:23 AM »

I have quite a few ATNO on RTTY, and I am very active in RTTY contests.

Frankly,
I would rather slug it out in a RTTY pileup opposed to a phone PU.

As a small station, I have my ways of getting thru in RTTY
contests. They work well for me.
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AA6YQ

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2015, 03:42:23 PM »

The good news is there is generally less competition in a RTTY pileup than in a CW or Phone pileup for the same DXCC entity. The bad news is that it takes less competition to make a RTTY pileup seem impenetrable. In my experience, the key to breaking a RTTY pileup is calling in a "hole" -- a clear slice of spectrum in which your RTTY signal's Mark and Space tones can both be heard. This can be accomplished by monitoring the pileup with a waterfall display to see who's calling where. Unless you have a killer signal and great propagation, calling on the same frequency as the last station worked (or any other occupied slice of spectrum) is unlikely to be successful.

      73,

             Dave, AA6YQ

     
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W2IRT

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2015, 09:01:40 PM »

Depends on the entity and the amount of RTTY operating they've done. Until now I never had any kind of spectrum display other than WinWarbler/2-Tone and there are some pileups that were a solid wall of sound from beginning to end, and only my amp's brute force and Yagis' gain got me in the log. Consider, too, that many rare entities have been activated in CW and Phone any number of times, but, until the rise of sound card RTTY's popularity, that mode was either an afterthought or simply never done in the past. How many RTTY contacts were made from Heard, Clipperton or Navassa before, say, 2005 or so. I'm guessing not very many. Malpelo and Amsterdam were just insane on RTTY even when they were easily workable on CW and Phone. My successes have always come by listening to the QSX and finding the pattern and in maybe 50 or 60% of my new RTTY entities, by calling on the same frequency. But in DXpedition pileups, yeah, it's not fun. Now with a P3 it'll be interesting to see if I have greater success.
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

ON5MF

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2015, 01:26:12 AM »

To get an ATNO in RTTY is not different than in the other modes. All that is required is experienced ops at both sides of the pileup.

The secret is to listen, listen, listen.

No need for an amp in rtty, just set your second vfo on the correct frequency and click the tx button at the right time.
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VK3MEG

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2015, 04:03:18 AM »

i just did a quick scan of my few rtty  contacts recently tr8ca 20 rtty ,3b9/ea5idq 10m ,e75c 20m,e6te 40m,fw1jg 40m.  that was the last 3 months definatly worth having that one in the tool box
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VK3HJ

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2015, 05:08:29 AM »

RTTY, and digital modes in general, are my least favourite, after SSB phone, but that is just a personal preference.

I did once work an ATNO on RTTY - Madagascar, but soon worked it again on CW and SSB. Oh, and I now remember, also East Timor.

Still, as mentioned in earlier posts, one must have all tools at one's disposal when chasing an ATNO.

Operating digi modes can be handy when you are trying to operate silently, but you can do that in CW as well. One can also enjoy digi modes when one's hearing is gone.

I am seeing more spots for digital modes, especially the JT modes, and expect them to become more popular as the DX gets a bit more difficult to work, now that we are coming off the cycle peak.

While I have good hearing, I'll stick to CW - decoded by ear of course.
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NA4M

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2015, 05:48:28 AM »

This is a great resource for getting started with RTTY:

http://www.aa5au.com/rtty/

73 Phil NA4M
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WO7R

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2015, 09:03:11 AM »

Quote
How many RTTY contacts were made from Heard, Clipperton or Navassa before, say, 2005 or so.

Good point.  How many DXpeditions, even big ones, went to the trouble of lugging an ASR 33, or some such, to a place like Heard?  Before PC sound cards, most RTTY was clunky and difficult.  The logistics were formidable.

I suppose some of that AEA gear right around the dawn of packet radio might have made it a little easier, because some of that included RTTY as well as packet, but that is so close to the PC sound card era as to make no difference.

When I look at my club's stats, I see maybe 30 members at Honor Roll or better on CW or SSB.  RTTY?  Two.  One of those two is a guy with about 3,000 on the DXCC Challenge.  That tells me a lot about where RTTY is.

But to me, that's all the more reason for the pop gun to participate.  Yes, the pileups for Amsterdam are insane.  But, the pileups for a lot of "in-between" countries are not.  And, if you need 'em, then it's just one more chance.
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AA6YQ

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2015, 02:07:25 PM »

How many RTTY contacts were made from Heard, Clipperton or Navassa before, say, 2005 or so.

In 1997, VK0IR operated RTTY from Heard Island using a PK-900 HF modem, and made 2056 RTTY QSOs.

In 2000, FO0AAA operated RTTY from Clipperton and made 2,827 RTTY QSOs.

In 1992, the WA4DAN/N0TG/AA4NC DXpedition to Navassa made 579 RTTY QSOs.

How many DXpeditions, even big ones, went to the trouble of lugging an ASR 33, or some such, to a place like Heard?  Before PC sound cards, most RTTY was clunky and difficult.  

Nobody's had to lug around ASR 33s since the 1970s, and there were many DXPeditions that operated RTTY before soundcard-based applications were available.

In the early 80's, DXPeditions used portable computers and "terminal units" to operate RTTY. More portable HF modems like the PK232 and KAM became available in the mid 1980s. Soundcard-based RTTY applications like RITTY appeared a decade later; MMTTY was first released around 2000.

Besides VK0IR, RTTY DX ops in the 1990s include C21/VK2BEX, 5X1XT, E31A, VK9MM (Mellish), 3D2CU (Conway), ZL8RI, 5W0DG, TY1RY, XT2DP, 8Q7BE, ZL7DX, 3B7RF (Agalega), HC8N, 3D2DX (Rotuma), HF0POL (South Shetlands), FT5ZH (Amsterdam), ZK3RW, 3B9R, and 9U5D.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 05:23:01 PM by AA6YQ »
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W2IRT

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2015, 05:49:46 PM »

How many RTTY contacts were made from Heard, Clipperton or Navassa before, say, 2005 or so.

In 1997, VK0IR operated RTTY from Heard Island using a PK-900 HF modem, and made 2056 RTTY QSOs.

In 2000, FO0AAA operated RTTY from Clipperton and made 2,827 RTTY QSOs.

Besides VK0IR, RTTY DX ops in the 1990s include C21/VK2BEX, 5X1XT, E31A, VK9MM (Mellish), 3D2CU (Conway), ZL8RI, 5W0DG, TY1RY, XT2DP, 8Q7BE, ZL7DX, 3B7RF (Agalega), HC8N, 3D2DX (Rotuma), HF0POL (South Shetlands), FT5ZH (Amsterdam), ZK3RW, 3B9R, and 9U5D.

But compare those numbers of RTTY Qs with CW and Phone Qs for the same operations and I'd wager that the percentage of RTTY Qs in those earlier DXpeditions is much smaller and that there were fewer RTTY DXers back then than there are today. Consequently DXpeditions in the SoundCardAge™ face bigger pileups and far higher demand now. If you worked Heard on CW, SSB and a bunch of different bands back in the day--but no RTTY (a reasonable assumption for long-time DXers)--my guess is that you'll be in those RTTY pileups next year in your quest for Digital DXCC.

My point to all this is just that for common and semi-rare entities, yes, RTTY is fairly easy but for the very rare ones that haven't been on in a while, I daresay the demand for RTTY will be far greater than other modes, hence pileups that will make one yearn for a microphone.
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

WO7R

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2015, 06:18:03 PM »

Quick googling finds (for FO0AAA  http://www.qsl.net/clipperton2000/news/index.html):

Quote
Bulletin #9    

March 8, 2000

The Clipperton team has made 69,400 QSOs as of 0000Z on March 8. They are going QRT at 1800Z on March 8.

So, 2,827 is a nice number, but a rather small fraction of the total (four per cent or so).  Nice to learn they weren't lugging ASR 33s around after all, but it is clear that RTTY has been a minority mode (in this case) as recently as 2000.

Still, even today, it isn't necessarily that much better.  Clublog stats show that FT5ZM had only 7 per cent RTTY in its QSO totals.  FT4TA was at 13 per cent, which is more reasonable.

In any case, it does seem likely that big time DXpeditions, on RTTY, will gather a lot more interest, proportionally speaking.  And, it is still very much a minority mode.  Which, for non-big time operations remains (IMO) an advantage for the smaller station.

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AA6YQ

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RE: DXing using RTTY
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2015, 06:40:51 PM »

How many RTTY contacts were made from Heard, Clipperton or Navassa before, say, 2005 or so.

In 1997, VK0IR operated RTTY from Heard Island using a PK-900 HF modem, and made 2056 RTTY QSOs.

In 2000, FO0AAA operated RTTY from Clipperton and made 2,827 RTTY QSOs.

Besides VK0IR, RTTY DX ops in the 1990s include C21/VK2BEX, 5X1XT, E31A, VK9MM (Mellish), 3D2CU (Conway), ZL8RI, 5W0DG, TY1RY, XT2DP, 8Q7BE, ZL7DX, 3B7RF (Agalega), HC8N, 3D2DX (Rotuma), HF0POL (South Shetlands), FT5ZH (Amsterdam), ZK3RW, 3B9R, and 9U5D.

But compare those numbers of RTTY Qs with CW and Phone Qs for the same operations and I'd wager that the percentage of RTTY Qs in those earlier DXpeditions is much smaller and that there were fewer RTTY DXers back then than there are today. Consequently DXpeditions in the SoundCardAge™ face bigger pileups and far higher demand now. If you worked Heard on CW, SSB and a bunch of different bands back in the day--but no RTTY (a reasonable assumption for long-time DXers)--my guess is that you'll be in those RTTY pileups next year in your quest for Digital DXCC.

My point to all this is just that for common and semi-rare entities, yes, RTTY is fairly easy but for the very rare ones that haven't been on in a while, I daresay the demand for RTTY will be far greater than other modes, hence pileups that will make one yearn for a microphone.

Agreed, Peter. My point was simply that there were plenty of RTTY DXPeditions well before the SoundCardAge™. I was fortunate that Garry NI6T got me interested in RTTY within a few years of getting my ticket in 1990, so I worked many of them.

A waterfall display and a second receiver that enables you to simultaneously decode both the DX station and their pileup does radically reduce the time required to crack a RTTY pileup. Since RTTY pileups can easily exceed 4 KHz, a wide-bandwidth receiver (e.g. an SDR) is also helpful.
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