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Author Topic: "Printer Spying" heard about this for years but never seen an example until now  (Read 16596 times)

KD8MJR

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Rob, sorry, having worked in IT for many years you are confusing several different subjects and distorting others. First your refered to a link on YouTube. That video is only about laser printer fingerprinting. It hasnothing to do with scanning currency.

Hi Frank as I said in "Reply #12" when someone else was confused I clarified again that this is about two different subjects.  See Post 12.

Laser printer fingerprinting has been going on for many years and has nothing to do with the government. It was an idea adopted by most of the industry to cut down on unnecessary warranty repairs and replacements. The industry was losing too much money to customers who were sending in "corrupted" printouts and getting printers replaced under warranty. Fingerprinting at least tied the results to  a specific unit.

I am a bit confused by the statement since the larger Laser copiers/printers that companies like us use almost never just go back for repairs.  A technician is always sent out first to try and repair it in the field, he may come several times with new parts until its fixed.  Even in the old days we never sent a copy of a bad printout, we just called and told them what the problem was and the tech would come out.

As for small home printers, I have never been asked to mail a sample copy of a defective printout, I just call the manufacturer, and if over the phone trouble shooting failed they typically told me to box up the unit and send it back.

I have to admit that Daves Idea that this is used to trace the origins of a printed sheet of paper make a whole lot of sense to me.  If your in law enforcement and have a piece of evidence that came out of a color laser printer, I cannot imagine that you would not have those dots checked to see if it opens up a lead.


Now for that tech who told you that your scanner calls uncle sam if you try to scan currency. There is a reason why he is only a low level printer installer ... he is an idiot. To prevent counterfeiting, the secret service, requested that scanner manufacturers voluntarily put code in their scanner drivers that will not allow scanning of U.S. currency. Many complied but the only thing that happens is that if you scan currency the printer driver pops up a dialog telling you that the operation has failed. Nothing is reported back to some secret government mothership. If you don't believe me run a packet sniffer on your LAN and you'll see that it isn't happening.


Frank I was not so much surprised by the fact that it might alert the authorities, what surprised me was when he said the printer/copier could detect currency!   It is interesting that you are backing up what he is saying, the only difference is he says it's reported and your saying it is just rejected.  In most cases like this I would do a bit of google searching but this is a subject that I do not want to have added to my already extensive google file ;D

As for the driver being the detection part, I think you might have gotten that wrong.  A normal driver would not have that ability, also a direct copy would not need a driver.  The detection would most likely be something in the firmware of the the printer itself.  


However even that was years ago now and the bureau of engraving and printing has since put more security into each piece of paper currency and no longer requests this from scanner manufacturers. For example my wife uses an Epson perfection 370 scanner on her windows computer to identify currency (she is blind as well) and it does allow currency scanning. The "your scanner will report youto uncle scam" is an old wive's tale based on some incorrect information.

hth
Frank

Yes I have seen a lot of the changes.  At my wifes store she checks most large notes and she has shown me all the changes when a new bill comes out, I have to say a lot of it is subtle but I would imagine very effective.    I was surprised one day at work when a tech told me to come look at a bill under a 50x bench microscope.  Those very thin black lines in the bill were not lines but actually written text  :o
I would agree that the newer bills are way beyond the capabilities of today's scanners and printers.  I would also point out that a few of the cashiers at my wife's store have been given photocopied bills by customers and on a couple of occasion they did not even realize the bills were copies until it was later lodged at the bank.

73s
Rob
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 11:51:18 AM by KD8MJR »
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K3NB

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What a riot.

Newer printers have embedded microprinting too.   User ID Numbers (UIN) come out on printed sheets so's you can't print out "hate speech", sending out anonymous flyers that can't be traced back to you anymore.

Anyone else recall when the first Pentium chips came out?  They had a code for a "back door" so who knows who could access your machine when connected to the web.  Good friend of mine working IT mentioned this to me... years go by and we find out all the major computer mfrs have this.

Best known case is the TV news reporter Sharyl Attkisson and her 'puters being hacked in real time while she watched.  No tin hat required.

"Ever hear about how your cell phone can be turned on remotely and used to transmit your voice and location?  Still no tin hat required.

O, wonder!
How many goodly creatures are there here!
How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world,
That has such people in't!" 

- Shakespeare (or Bacon, possibly Marlowe... no UINs existed in those days ;-) )

Norm
K3NB
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WN2C

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About ten years ago we had a high end color laser printer installed and I remember the Tech who was doing the installation said to me, "Make sure no one puts any money into the scanner at the top because it will report the fact that money is being copied to the authorities"   I asked him how exactly does that work.  He said all US money has some marking built into it that triggers the copier into knowing that it's money.  If the printer can connect to the Net it sends out the info over Ethernet and delivers the information to the government.

Well I though that was all very interesting and it got my attention enough that I never stuck a US$ bill into a photocopier, scanner etc.

Last night I am watching a video by Dave and Wow, I had no idea just how far they would go with this stuff.  They are tracking everything  :o

Take a Look at Daves video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sit6zUQKpJc


73s
Rob





Bull Butter
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KD8MJR

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Bull Butter

Ok I will bite, what is it that you find incorrect?
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K0YQ

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I can tell you explicitly from experience that unmodified (brand unnamed) LJ and IJ printers know when they're being used to print US currency.  The detection circuitry is in the ASIC.  And it's not "reported", just won't print those pixel patterns.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 06:33:40 PM by K0YQ »
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NK7Z

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There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your television set. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to… The Outer Limits
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Thanks,
Dave
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KD8MJR

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Recently A lot of really lame replies to something that is factual and not some conspiracy theory.

1) Some if not all Color Printers can identify when US Currency is put in them.  As to what is done or NOT done with that information is debatable.

2) Some Color Laser Printers imprint small dots on each page that identifies the date, time, printer model and serial number.

This is not Tin Foil Hat stuff, it is well documented with photos and analysis.  You can look it up for yourselves.

73s
Rob
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 12:54:02 PM by KD8MJR »
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)

NK7Z

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Recently A lot of really lame replies to something that is factual and not some conspiracy theory.

1) Some if not all Color Printers can identify when US Currency is put in them.  As to what is done or NOT done with that information is debatable.

2) Some Color Laser Printers imprint small dots on each page that identifies the date, time, printer model and serial number.

This is not Tin Foil Hat stuff, it is well documented with photos and analysis.  You can look it up for yourselves.

73s
Rob
I actually totally agree with your contentions here Rob.
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Dave
Amateur Radio: RFI help, Reviews, Setup information, and more...
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