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Author Topic: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.  (Read 45134 times)

AC4BB

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2016, 05:15:17 AM »

I don't recall ever paying QRZ anything, I just went over there, picked a forum at random and posted "test". It seems to work ok...
I'm really glad that you did that because the entire premise of this thread is 100% false.

Every single ham radio related forum on QRZ is free and open to all ham users, no subscription required.  Absolutely nothing has changed for these forums.   One forum, having nothing to do with ham radio, was recently made Subscriber-only.

73,  -fred

   True but, you can bend the rules for the paying crowd and basically let them say what they will.   It's true  "For the love of money Is the root of all evil." 
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NN4RH

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2016, 06:07:18 AM »

It would make more sense if only subscribers could even see it. It apparently is publicly viewable by anyone.



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WX7P

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2016, 07:05:55 AM »

It would make more sense if only subscribers could even see it. It apparently is publicly viewable by anyone.

Indeed it is.

It gives a bunch of crazy people a closed forum to spout their nutty ideas and silly conspiracy theories. I'm sure the rest of the world thinks US hams are a bunch of paranoid ignorant yahoos. Not only does this denigrate the QRZ brand it makes the hobby look like it has been taken over by weirdos.

Why should anyone pay ransom to respond to that dreck?
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W0BKR

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2016, 08:02:08 AM »

To be clear, not that it matters to me:

Premium Subscriber
per year $39.95

Platinum Subscriber
per year $79.95

Lifetime Platinum
lifetime $995.00

Kinda reminds me of ARRL membership.....LOL

GL - I can't speak to the why other than operating costs, etc. but for something like a "forum", I can't understand charging folks to post on it....
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K9ASE

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #64 on: July 09, 2016, 08:16:51 AM »

I don't recall ever paying QRZ anything, I just went over there, picked a forum at random and posted "test". It seems to work ok...
I'm really glad that you did that because the entire premise of this thread is 100% false.

Every single ham radio related forum on QRZ is free and open to all ham users, no subscription required.  Absolutely nothing has changed for these forums.   One forum, having nothing to do with ham radio, was recently made Subscriber-only.

73,  -fred

So, what's the point of having a non ham radio forum in the first place?

According to you, it's nothing but a PITA. 

Really, all you're doing is creating bad buzz for your entire site. If your subscribers really have that much of a jones to talk about politics, Stormfront and Free Republic are always available for their use.



The thing that I will miss are the non political threads. The political threads were easy enough to stay out of or make a civil comment and leave. We all knew who would say what.
              However, the non political threads were the reason to come to RCC2. It was like meeting your friends every day for coffee.
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AA7BQ

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2016, 09:20:47 AM »


Maybe if you would actually get rid of the racists homophobic and flat out hateful people the RCC2 wouldn't of been a problem. oh I forgot they are the protected group cause they toss money at you and are unable to be banned.

These racist, homophobic, and hateful people are the same ones that you hear on the air every day, and the same ones that you meet at your local hamfest.  They are terribly easy to avoid.  On the air you turn the dial.  At a hamfest, you walk away.  On QRZ, you do the exact same thing.  Do you stop operating on the air once you learn that they're out there?  No, you simply avoid them.   QRZ represents a vast cross section of people, some good, and some not. We like to think that the good far outnumber the bad and that on balance, QRZ does far more good for ham radio than the bad apples take away.  It's a kind of ecological balance.  Just like in the real world, you have to accept that some people are less than desirable and deal with it.

We won't hesitate to ban a subscriber and have done so many times. 

I don't have the power to change the way people are.  What you're suggesting is that we segregate people based on their behavior and cast out those who are less than politically correct.  Nobody want's that job, and those who might, can't be trusted to do it.

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WX7P

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #66 on: July 09, 2016, 09:27:32 AM »

Ok, Tom.

I get what you're saying. I would much prefer to talk about old cars or travel or other interesting things. Unfortunately, some people use innocuous forums like the Rag Chew to push an agenda. That's the part that has always been an annoyance to me with the zed.

It never seems to fail. You'll have a thread about something completely banal and some nitwit will drop in some silly ass talking point. Then, all hell breaks loose.

I don't understand how controlling this is such rocket science. If you're going to have a rule, make it absolute, even for the 5-7 daily serial posters. If they aren't adult enough to handle it, then boot them, subscriber or not. Aren't they supposed to be there for ham radio activities, not spreading propaganda?

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G4LNA

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #67 on: July 09, 2016, 09:40:50 AM »

Pity, I used to enjoy QRZ, but I've deleted to link to the forums, because if I see something on Just Talking and can't reply then it will just frustrate me, so bye QRZ, I wish you well.
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AA7BQ

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #68 on: July 09, 2016, 09:53:28 AM »

This was an internal email that was sent to the QRZ staff:

Folks,

QRZ was built by hams, for hams.  We've hosted discussion groups for over 20 years and presently there are more than 40+ forums containing more than 2 million postings.  Of those 40+ groups, just one of them is NOT about ham radio.  The single off-topic area has been known as Rag Chew Central.  The subject line, "qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore" isn't worthy of criticism, because doing so misses the point.  It is false and misleading.  Nevertheless, the author was successful in starting and propagating a false narrative about QRZ, and now, 5 pages later, it's clear that many people simply took his word for it and chimed in.

So, if you don't read anything else in this email, please know this:

EVERY FORUM ON QRZ THAT IS ABOUT HAM RADIO IS COMPLETELY FREE TO ALL USERS.

The new Just Talking forum, which replaced the RCC series, isn't about ham radio.  It's about nothing, nothing at all.  It is by definition a complete waste of time that some people frequently enjoy (see Facebook for example).  Even though that by being hams the participants have a common interest, this comradeship is disregarded in order to bring you such gripping headlines as "Joke of the Day",  "Turkey barn burns killing 7000 young birds", and  "The Original Lois Lane has Passed".

Some posters have correctly pointed out that the RCC series has been overhauled a few times.  Each overhaul was done for the same reason: to try and find a way to quell the epidemic of trashy, argumentative and disrespectful speech.  So far we've been batting a score of 0.00%, largely because those who play there have been having fun.  We've tried to aggressively moderate it on numerous occasions however the exercise often seems useless given the nature of its content.  Sadly, we've had to ban users to satisfy the complaints of other users who complain about content that is commonly seen on other sites (like FB).   Few people want this moderating job, and those who do, can't be trusted with it.

From an organizational standpoint, we really don't see the need for hosting non-amateur related topics.  The obvious solution to this is to not host the material at all.  This would be our most desirable solution, however, we've found from past experience that if you don't provide the children with a playground that their antics will inevitably spill over into the legitimate discussion forums, which leads to a metastasis of ill will throughout the site.

So, after having tried the removal of RCC, then tried flushing and restarting it (RCCII), then tried splitting it into multiple groups (Political Junkies/RCC), we were left with just one option  - to "go nuclear" and kill the whole thing.   Why?  There are several reasons.  Here are a few:

- The expense and difficulty of monitoring what is said, removing objectionable comments and pictures, and arguing with users who have been censored

- Handling complaints that we receive on a daily basis from people who report that they didn't like what they saw / read.

- Handling complaints from tattle-tales who make it their mission to bring everybody into compliance with the rules.

- Being asked to explain why some things are removed while others are not.  It takes long enough to read and make an editing decision, only to have that effort expanded and multiplied by having to defend it.

- Maintaining vigilance for compliance with Google's Advertiser Content Guidelines because bad behavior by a single user can get us suspended, resulting in substantial financial losses.  All in the name of good fun.

Rather than going nuclear and ripping out the entire forum (and thereby causing the cancer to spread), we thought that we'd give the Subscriber option a try.  The issue here wasn't to profit from the members but rather to recover some the costs that we've incurred in managing the area.  Then, at least when we have to divert our attention to the latest upset in Just Talking, we can do so while having the costs of such attention offset by the users themselves.  You may have also noticed that all advertising has been removed from the Just Talking section, which protects us from Google policy violations.  This means that the entire Just Talking area is supported by those who use it and as such, they are entitled to a bit more self-determination than in the other forums.  This is why the discussion of previously off-limits topics (i.e. politics, religion, and mild profanity) is now permitted in this area.  It's their playground, and they are responsible for getting along with each other.  Passer's by are encouraged to keep moving, "nothing to see here", unless you're interested, of course.  It's not a no-holes-barred situation as we will always prohibit and/or censor hate speech, violence, and pornography.  Also note that QRZ's population consists of the same people you meet at hamfests and on the air every day.  The average age of a QRZ user is 50+, with 90% of our user base being over the age of 40.  QRZ may not be strictly kid friendly, but then neither is the hobby as whole.  If it was, the average age would be a couple of decades lower.

Some have pointed out that a lot of the bad actors in the RCC area have themselves been subscribers and thus moving to a subscriber supported forum will have no effect.  Well, as I just explained above, it does have an effect.  The effect is that we can concentrate on providing better services to the rest of the site and spend less time presiding over ridiculous matters over in the "RCC" area which, incidentally, account for no more than 10% of QRZ forums traffic, and just 2% of our overall traffic.  So, if you're disheartened by the new Subscriber-Only forum, then you're simply not trying hard enough to find pleasure in this hobby.

Also, we'd like to mention that QRZ has sponsored eHam's callsign lookup data for more than 10 years.  eHam is in fact, the #1 QRZ XML data user.  We wish to congratulate them for their hard work and the excellence that they've provided to the ham community.

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AC4BB

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #69 on: July 09, 2016, 09:58:55 AM »

  Make the ALL free Fred.     It became a subscription only on the former RCC II.   You didn't allow some free speech on RCCII and no politics it seems ALL of that is different now?  You banned people for a few piddly reasons mostly ham members.

  Basically, what you're saying is I'll change it to different format then I won't chastise Subscribers for doing something RCC II prohibited. Is that not what you're saying?

  My subscription to e-ham is already in the mail.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 10:21:19 AM by AC4BB »
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WX7P

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #70 on: July 09, 2016, 10:15:26 AM »

AA7BQ:

Well, at least you've addressed two things that make sense.

1. Some people can't be trusted moderating a forum. That's a fact.

2. The financial and logical aspect of managing the site can be a nightmare. That makes sense.

On the other hand:

I don't think you're going to  have any success in the 'spill over' department. You're going to have the same issues with people and their agendas and the same bitching about content. So you'll have the same issues AND uncontrolled airspace full of all kinds of weirdness that makes us all look bad.

I agree that there are all kinds of weirdos in the world. Ham radio is the only hobby I've been involved with that many people think they are their own broadcast station with a group of 'listeners', so the agendas come out in full force. It's like having a cabal of little Father Coughlins.

I don't think your approach is going to work, but good luck with that.

I'm done talking about it.
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K0WVM

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #71 on: July 09, 2016, 10:55:22 AM »


Maybe if you would actually get rid of the racists homophobic and flat out hateful people the RCC2 wouldn't of been a problem. oh I forgot they are the protected group cause they toss money at you and are unable to be banned.

These racist, homophobic, and hateful people are the same ones that you hear on the air every day, and the same ones that you meet at your local hamfest.  They are terribly easy to avoid.  On the air you turn the dial.  At a hamfest, you walk away.  On QRZ, you do the exact same thing.  Do you stop operating on the air once you learn that they're out there?  No, you simply avoid them.   QRZ represents a vast cross section of people, some good, and some not. We like to think that the good far outnumber the bad and that on balance, QRZ does far more good for ham radio than the bad apples take away.  It's a kind of ecological balance.  Just like in the real world, you have to accept that some people are less than desirable and deal with it.

We won't hesitate to ban a subscriber and have done so many times. 

I don't have the power to change the way people are.  What you're suggesting is that we segregate people based on their behavior and cast out those who are less than politically correct.  Nobody want's that job, and those who might, can't be trusted to do it.



Then do what they do on the Rivals.com and Scout.com sports forums.  Board moderators turn certain and exclusive forums into private ones that only paying subscribers can chat in.  The non-paying outsiders can only see the discussion titles, but cannot see any of the posts.  They must pay to participate in the discussion if they want to do that.

But not hesitating to ban a subscriber or anyone else?  Yeah, about that...  there is an environment and a perception of favoritism with certain members.  You would do well in improving the perception by being fair and impartial about this.  You say that it is, but frankly the trends in some of the discussions over the years have proven otherwise.  I have seen it, others here have seen it and there is a problem.  Yes, it is your site, your forums and how you place the 'rules of the road', but there is something amiss.

I don't know if it's your other moderators that do this and you are not completely aware, or if it comes from the top.  But it's something you might want to look into if the prior is the case.
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WN2C

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #72 on: July 09, 2016, 11:05:52 AM »


Maybe if you would actually get rid of the racists homophobic and flat out hateful people the RCC2 wouldn't of been a problem. oh I forgot they are the protected group cause they toss money at you and are unable to be banned.

These racist, homophobic, and hateful people are the same ones that you hear on the air every day, and the same ones that you meet at your local hamfest.  They are terribly easy to avoid.  On the air you turn the dial.  At a hamfest, you walk away.  On QRZ, you do the exact same thing.  Do you stop operating on the air once you learn that they're out there?  No, you simply avoid them.   QRZ represents a vast cross section of people, some good, and some not. We like to think that the good far outnumber the bad and that on balance, QRZ does far more good for ham radio than the bad apples take away.  It's a kind of ecological balance.  Just like in the real world, you have to accept that some people are less than desirable and deal with it.

We won't hesitate to ban a subscriber and have done so many times. 

I don't have the power to change the way people are.  What you're suggesting is that we segregate people based on their behavior and cast out those who are less than politically correct.  Nobody want's that job, and those who might, can't be trusted to do it.



Fred, why not make this new forum pay to see and post.? Then others won't have a need to b*tch about it.  And put a warning that those who are about to enter may not like what they read. Kinda like a PG-13 warning.
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W0BKR

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #73 on: July 09, 2016, 11:18:47 AM »

His forum, his website.  I respect that.
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AC4BB

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RE: qrz.com must be a member to comment anymore.
« Reply #74 on: July 09, 2016, 12:20:43 PM »

His forum, his website.  I respect that.


  Posted first page.
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