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Author Topic: Bad CW  (Read 34845 times)

VK5EEE

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2017, 03:56:00 PM »

Here is my entry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjqT8PSqG_w but I can hear with my own ears where it isn't 100%.

I think that the code requirement for licensing should be reinstated in the U.S. with the proviso that the sender has to perform using three different kinds of keys like VK5EEE does. That should clear up much of the sloppy sending we hear now.  ;D

Not only is he not using any robotic gear, he obviously is sticking out his tongue at those who think that a key or paddle needs to cost at least $300 and look like jewelry to produce good code.

 ;D
;D Thanks that made me smile, indeed my keys are not jewelry, nor do I care about it, until the latest bug a gift which can be seen on my QRZ page, that one shines like jewelry  ;D

An advice to all those who think decoding "bug CW" is difficult: RELAX and realize one of VK5EEE's bug theorems: "Anything that is not a dit is a dah". 73
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K8AXW

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2017, 08:00:09 PM »

Quote
I think in some branches of the U.S. military, radiotelegraphers could use straight keys or keyers but there was a separate
qualifying test to use a bug.

EE:  I had some experience with this.  Our operators used J-38 keys.  As is ALWAYS the case, the speed invariably start to increase and then someone brings in his personal bug and connects it to the J-38.  Then the race is on....or I should say the race WAS on. 

This suddenly became a rude awakening because word came down the chain of command to cease using bugs "because they were getting too fast for our intercept operators to copy!"  This was when we first realized that all of our transmissions were being monitored by our own people!

During the years since then, even today, everything is monitored by our government and this no "aluminum hat" theory or conspiracy theory.  EVERYTHING is monitored; ham radio, cell phones, military transmission...you name it, it's monitored.

Read the book, "The Puzzle Palace."  I am familiar enough with portions of this book to confirm what is printed.

 
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9V1VV

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2017, 08:03:13 PM »

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W6MK

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2017, 08:20:29 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhyF8SDENNQ&t=125s

my efforts

Nice bug. I like double-lever bugs. Transitions between dits and dahs are enhanced. I have one made by GHD.
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VK5EEE

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2017, 03:32:16 AM »

Nice one John! I will try to get around to making a video of my Oz Bug, it also is a beauty, and also has dual levers, and you pointed out a good benefit of that.
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9V1VV

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2017, 04:01:17 AM »

Michael / KE6EE your GHD is a beauty. I nearly bought one last year when I was in Tokyo. I believe they have stopped making them now, so you are a very lucky man.

Lou VK5EEE I saw your new bug on the web. It seems to be made in Oz.  Does it say g'day mate? It looks pretty cool.
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K3STX

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2017, 04:32:40 AM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhyF8SDENNQ&t=125s

my efforts

I hate to be a killjoy, but it seems like your dits are 35 wpm while your dahs are more like 20 wpm. That makes pretty difficult copy. If that is as fast as you can send "dahs" between dits I would think you should slow down those dits to send 20 wpm CW. That is why I am limited to about 25 wpm even though I can copy 50.

Just my opinion, but I think that is what the "anti-bug" crowd is always complaining about; dits that are way too fast for the spacing of the characters/letters.

Try to send a message at 20 wpm, listen to it, then notice how all your letters sound different at 20 than the way it is set up now.

Paul
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W7ASA

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2017, 06:14:45 AM »

Well then , this answers the age old question : "Should I usena straight key, paddle or bug ???"

VK5EEE asnswers "Use use all three during the same words, often sharing DITS and DAHS MID-letter !

Thanks for your posting. As an old code hand, I got s good laugh and appreciate your skill set. BTW your straight key first is EXCELLENT! You sound very much like the finest kind of shore station.

73 de Ray. ...- .-

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9V1VV

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2017, 06:15:45 AM »

Paul, thanks for the comments. Since that recording was made I have slowed down quite a bit for normal ragchew. I have no complaints and rattle away with others using similar timings.

The dits in that recording are at 28 wpm and the dahs at 23 wpm by the way. That is quite normal for bug sending. It is always hard to get an exact correct ratio but we do the best we can.

73 de John

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VK5EEE

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2017, 07:38:39 AM »

Lou VK5EEE I saw your new bug on the web. It seems to be made in Oz.  Does it say g'day mate? It looks pretty cool.
In future, I think we'll hear more about the Oz Bug made by VK2DLF of MorseKeys.com -- it has several unique features and some secrets that have never before been used in bugs and solve some problems, e.g. preventing the slowing down (decay) of dits.

Just my opinion, but I think that is what the "anti-bug" crowd is always complaining about; dits that are way too fast for the spacing of the characters/letters.
You of course have a right to that opinion, but it is not fact. Fact is: for QRQ operators, you have the option to send dahs at the same speed, or much less, and that produces a nice relaxed throughput. It's *very easy* to copy such CW, it's just that people who are not used to it get confused by it, they get hung up on the ratio, aren't QRQ so can't hear the dits as easily as we can, and are confused by slower dahs. They thus generally exaggerate the ratio e.g. from 23:28 in this case, to 20:35 -- a big difference from reality. This is easily overcome by relaxing and remembering the Szondy bug theorem "anything that is not a dit, is a dah" :-)

Well then , this answers the age old question : "Should I usena straight key, paddle or bug ???"

VK5EEE asnswers "Use use all three during the same words, often sharing DITS and DAHS MID-letter !

Thanks for your posting. As an old code hand, I got s good laugh and appreciate your skill set. BTW your straight key first is EXCELLENT! You sound very much like the finest kind of shore station.

73 de Ray. ...- .-


Thanks Ray, very much appreciated, that's about the highest complement one could receive "you sound very much like the finest kind of shore station" -- that's actually how I learned CW as a young boy, listening to the finest kind of shore stations!
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W6MK

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2017, 09:01:53 AM »

Michael / KE6EE your GHD is a beauty. I nearly bought one last year when I was in Tokyo. I believe they have stopped making them now.

Hey folks, it's fancy bug show-off time!  ;D

When I got my GHD double-lever several years ago there were no new GHD bugs available in the U.S. I was lucky to find mine on ebay, in perfect condition, at a discount from the new price.

The dits in that recording are at 28 wpm and the dahs at 23 wpm by the way. That is quite normal for bug sending. It is always hard to get an exact correct ratio but we do the best we can.

I noticed that the dit speed was higher than the overall sending speed but I could not easily identify the spread. The spread was
noticeable but not, I think, offensive as it is when the speed spread is much greater, more like 10 wpm than 5.

Recently I have been using a sideswiper and I notice that I can easily get the balance between dit and dah speeds wrong. On the
other hand when they correspond properly, the sound is very much sweeter.
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N9FB

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2017, 12:52:30 PM »

Recently I have been using a sideswiper and I notice that I can easily get the balance between dit and dah speeds wrong. On the
other hand when they correspond properly, the sound is very much sweeter.

I am finding the sideswiper a hard instrument to master.  i was hoping it would be easy to just translate my straight key fist to a side-swiper fist, but alas that was a naive hope on my part :D
and then there is the issue that crops up with trying to master any musical instrument (or sport) -- it takes repetition and practice for muscle memory to become tuned.
love is the secret ingredient that enables one to transcend what might otherwise be drudgery.  

^that said^ i am wondering if my sideswiper challenges would be aided by a cootie that was better at returning to center than the one i use and if obtaining a bug would entail the same challenge or if more of my straight key capabilities would translate in?

have to add, i love VK5EEE's dit vs dah theorem.  as long as dah to dit ratios are longer than the normal 3 to 1, i find them easy to copy.  it is when dahs are *shorter* than a 3 to 1 ratio that my ears begin to hurt   ;)

as someone once quipped: if you dont know CW, you dont know dit!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 12:55:49 PM by N9KX »
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W6MK

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2017, 02:31:37 PM »

I am finding the sideswiper a hard instrument to master.  i was hoping it would be easy to just translate my straight key fist to a side-swiper fist, but alas that was a naive hope on my part :D

The sideswiper is really quite different in feel and operation from a straight key. Developing a rhythm with side to side movement is really more like using a bug. I mostly use a bug.

I enjoy using a good straight key, like a Swedish Pump design. I'm comfortable with such a key at speeds up to where a bug works well, 18 wpm or so. I think the cootie is easier to use than a straight key at speeds of about 16 wpm to 20 or 22 wpm.

I found that using the cootie a few minutes at a time once a day over two weeks taught me to send acceptably with it. I did find that I was sending dits too fast for my overall speed so I concentrated on keeping to a good-sounding rhythm.

It may be helpful to look at some youtube videos of people sending with cooties. I don't think it particularly matters what kind
of key or paddle you use, any side-movement key can produce good code as a sideswiper. It may be critical to really open up the contact gaps when sideswiping. I don't think the usual microscopic paddle settings which most people use are appropriate for sideswipery.

I have a few single lever paddles which I use as sideswipers. I also have a hacksaw blade cootie. I have a double-lever paddle which I can also use for sideswiping. The key matters a lot less than having a sense of rhythm and setting up the key appropriately.

The nice thing about a hacksaw blade cootie, or some more complicated designs that work similarly, is that the contact "landings" are soft, so that the feel is like that of a Swedish Pump key. The soft landing contact setup also makes the key work much more quietly. Using a hard landing paddle as a sideswiper can be very noisy.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 02:34:51 PM by KE6EE »
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GW3OQK

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2017, 03:24:28 AM »

Sorry guys, I can't do anything fancy.
https://youtu.be/tq0efkO26HA

I admire all of your videos. 9V1VV, your Morse is easily read by a human being but I suppose that VU's software just produced garbage. We haven't put anything but Good CW on here. Can any of you send bad morse, unless its after too much red, which I rarely have in the shack
73, Andrew
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K3STX

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RE: Bad CW
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2017, 08:03:17 AM »

Sorry guys, I can't do anything fancy.
https://youtu.be/tq0efkO26HA

I admire all of your videos. 9V1VV, your Morse is easily read by a human being but I suppose that VU's software just produced garbage. We haven't put anything but Good CW on here. Can any of you send bad morse, unless its after too much red, which I rarely have in the shack
73, Andrew

What a great fist. I have never been able to send well with a straight key. I'm not so good on a bug either.

But with a keyer I can get my spacing right!  ;)

paul
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