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Author Topic: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?  (Read 55059 times)

N0YXB

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2017, 01:29:10 PM »



Guess when you get old and bitter you have to have something to rail about.




Guess when you are younger and have less life skills/experience ignorance is bliss.

You obviously don't know me or anything about my life skills, but if you count bitterness and negativity as life skills you're way ahead of the game. You and ole JX can wallow in it while the rest of enjoy using radios that don't pass the bitter old man test.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 01:34:40 PM by N0YXB »
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GM1FLQ

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2017, 01:39:14 PM »



Guess when you get old and bitter you have to have something to rail about.




Guess when you are younger and have less life skills/experience ignorance is bliss.

You obviously don't know me or anything about my life skills.........

Nor you about me or others, but that doesn't stop you from making projections.

More than you can play that game.
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GM1FLQ

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2017, 01:56:50 PM »



Guess when you get old and bitter you have to have something to rail about.




Guess when you are younger and have less life skills/experience ignorance is bliss.

but if you count bitterness and negativity as life skills you're way ahead of the game. You and ole JX can wallow in it while the rest of enjoy using radios that don't pass the bitter old man test.


As for negativity, just saying it as it is junior.........ahhh dear, the kiddies these days, all upset when faced with a dose of reality, the jump to defense line - "you're bitter" - at least try to be a bit more original.   ;D

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GM1FLQ

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2017, 02:20:27 PM »


If you don't like it, fine.  Don't buy one.  Your choice in rigs is up to you.  It's not your place to complain about what others buy. 

But one is perfectly entitled to air a view/opinion on it, are they not.........even if it is (shock horror!) an uncomplimentary appraisal and doesn't suit some.



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GM1FLQ

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2017, 02:37:08 PM »


 You'd probably whine about a Prius because one should not take it off-road or race in the Daytona 500 with it.


You mean say it like it is.........one of the cars of choice for the "virtue signalers."  ;D
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W7XTV

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2017, 02:54:03 PM »


If you don't like it, fine.  Don't buy one.  Your choice in rigs is up to you.  It's not your place to complain about what others buy. 

But one is perfectly entitled to air a view/opinion on it, are they not....

Of course.  But your (and JX's) opinions were condescending and bordering on personal insults.  No need for that.

Quote
.....even if it is (shock horror!) an uncomplimentary appraisal and doesn't suit some.

OK, so you don't like the FT-450D, either.  Fine.  Don't buy one.  But given my own experiences using it, as well as reading the reviews on eHam and other sites, I'll stand by my purchase.  You use what you like, and I'll use what I like.  Let's both be happy. 

And I'm fully aware of its design limitations.  I've owned better rigs, and have owned worse ones.  It's designed for its price point -- a very basic ham rig that gets one on the air for a small amount of money.  It is a $700 rig, not a $2000 rig.  It does what I want it to do, and performs as well as I can expect for an inexpensive radio.

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He speaks fluent PSK31, in FT8...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!

N4UE

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2017, 02:56:16 PM »


 You'd probably whine about a Prius because one should not take it off-road or race in the Daytona 500 with it.


You mean say it like it is.........one of the cars of choice for the "virtue signalers."  ;D

Why don't you just take your beloved sheep and get the 'FLOCK' out of here!
 ;D ;D

ron
N4UE
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If you're not the lead sled dog, the view never changes......

N0YXB

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2017, 03:12:31 PM »

And I'm fully aware of its design limitations.  I've owned better rigs, and have owned worse ones.  It's designed for its price point -- a very basic ham rig that gets one on the air for a small amount of money.  It is a $700 rig, not a $2000 rig.  It does what I want it to do, and performs as well as I can expect for an inexpensive radio.


Same here. It seems the naysayers assume we've never used other rigs. I'm also well aware the FT-450 is not a $2000 radio, but that's the point, isn't it? For the money, it's a decent radio and certainly better than the radio I had when I got my Novice license in the '70s. Yes, I am not a newly minted ham, and contrary to JX's expert opinion I have owned and used other radios. I was thinking of trading mine in but now I think I'll keep it as a back up or perhaps to help out some new ham someday. And I really do like owning something that causes JX and the Scottish dude angst.  :D
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W8JX

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2017, 05:04:49 PM »

Whoever said it wasn't?  It is what it is, a basic radio, and it was designed to a particular (low) price point.  Performance won't be as good as rigs costing over $1K,

It will not be as good as a rig costing close to a 1K or even a used rig same price as a new 450. You get what you pay for with a 450 and it is not much.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..

W8JX

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2017, 06:59:45 PM »

Whoever said it wasn't?  It is what it is, a basic radio, and it was designed to a particular (low) price point.  Performance won't be as good as rigs costing over $1K,

It will not be as good as a rig costing close to a 1K or even a used rig same price as a new 450. You get what you pay for with a 450 and it is not much.

For a little more than a 450 a IC-7200 is a much better radio. 
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..

GM1FLQ

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2017, 10:43:58 PM »


Of course.  But your (and JX's) opinions were condescending and bordering on personal insults.  No need for that.




You mean by responding to your condescending, cheek (reply 13 just to remind you).

And now you're trying to play the innocent hard done by party.........came across that old ploy many a time.  ::)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 11:00:41 PM by GM1FLQ »
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GM1FLQ

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2017, 10:54:41 PM »


 You'd probably whine about a Prius because one should not take it off-road or race in the Daytona 500 with it.


You mean say it like it is.........one of the cars of choice for the "virtue signalers."  ;D

Why don't you just take your beloved sheep and get the 'FLOCK' out of here!
 ;D ;D

ron
N4UE

But then the sheeples on here would be lost, running aimlessly from side to side with no flock to follow.  ;D ;D
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 10:58:09 PM by GM1FLQ »
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GM1FLQ

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2017, 11:09:20 PM »


 I was thinking of trading mine in but now I think I'll keep it as a back up or perhaps to help out some new ham someday. And I really do like owning something that causes JX and the Scottish dude angst.  :D


On the contrary, delighted to be having such a positive influence in keeping you matched with the level of rig that is seemingly just right for you.  :D

« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 11:26:44 PM by GM1FLQ »
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AF5CC

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2017, 12:26:36 PM »

I have owned over 50 different model HF rigs, sometimes I wonder if the XYL and local hams think I am nuts, but I just like trying out different radios.

I have had some high end radios: Yaesu FT1000D, Yaesu FT1000MP, Yaesu FT990, Kenwood TS950SDX, Kenwood TS950S, Kenwood TS850, Icom 756PRO2, Icom 756PRO

I have had some middle class radios: Yaesu FT950, Yaesu FT920, Kenwood TS480HX, Kenwood TS570S, Icom 756, Icom 746, Ten Tec Jupiter, Icom 9100, Kenwood TS2000

I have had every HF/VHF/UHF radio made except for the Icom 7100.

My point is, I have a basis for comparison, and have used very good rigs.

I have been licensed for 37 years, have 8 band DXCC, 5 band Worked All States twice, 6 meter VUCC 3 times, 2 meter VUCC, Satellite VUCC, 5 band Worked All Zones.  I don't mean to look like I am bragging, but I am establishing I do a lot of operating, and have high standards for operating and for equipment.  You don't earn those awards running junk for a station.

That being said, I have owned both the Yaesu FT450AT and the Yaesu FT450D and have enjoyed using both radios.  I actually like the way they look, and don't think they look like cheap CB junk.  Now there are a couple of radios currently on the market that really do look and feel cheaply built, but I won't name them here because lots of people probably like them and I don't want to insult them.

We often hear that the FT450 uses old or low level DSP.  What we don't hear is how that manifests itself in everyday operating.  What does low level DSP do or not do that the other radios with higher level DSP do?  The noise reduction seems fine on the FT450.  I can't say I have really used radios that have much better noise reduction than it does.  I have had a TS480, I wasn't blown away by its noise reduction.  In general, I have found Kenwood's noise reduction 1 (for SSB) very less than stellar.  Their noise reduction 2 (for CW) makes an interesting background sound-like there is water running or bubbling, but it does actually help to pull CW signals out of the noise.

Does this low level DSP make for bad narrow filters?  I haven't experienced that with the FT450.  The CW filter on the FT450 was a little wide (around 600hz), but I didn't experience it having a bad shape filter.  Yaesu fixed that in the FT450D, where the narrowest CW filter is 300hz wide and QST measured it at about 300hz wide.  I have used a FT450 and FT450D in quite a few contests, and I never experienced anything like filter blowby, or dynamic range problems due to poorly shaped filters.  It did perfectly well for a mid level radio under contest conditions.  It isn't going to outperform the FT1000 I have right now, but that was a $4000 radio when it was made and the best radio on the market in the early 90s.  The FT450 isn't that far behind it under contest conditions, though.   

You can also use this 300hz filter on the digital modes, which is a huge step up from the FT450 where you had to use the 1.8khz filter for the narrowest bandwidth on the digital modes.  It is funny that Yaesu never mentioned that change for the D model, which it was their biggest improvement.  Instead they mention it has new knobs???  Whoever was in charge of that marketing campaign should have been fired immediately.

Also, the FT450 is set up very well ergonomically.  Almost everything you need to do is on the front panel, and you rarely have to go into the menus.  The menus are for set and forget items.  You can program the mic buttons (UP/DOWN/FAST) to control various functions of the radio. I would use them to control the CW memories and the voice keyer memories.  I wish Yaesu set up the FT891/991/1200 like that since they use the same microphone. Instead Yaesu wants you to drop another $100 to buy their stupid FH-2 keypad to control those things.  Yes, the FT450 comes with a built in CW memory keyer, a built in voice recorder/keyer (both of which aren't even options for the Icom 7200, which is why I never owned one) and a voice synthesizer.  Those things are extra on the TS480, as well as the TXCO which is standard on the FT450. 

If you want to equip a TS480 with the things needed to make it have the same features as the FT450 (narrow SSB filter, narrow CW filter, TCXO, voice unit) it will set you back over $1400. You can get a FT450D now for just under $700.  The extra $700 would get you a nice beam to put up, which is really going to increase your performance much more than a more expensive radio hooked up to a dipole or random wire.

I have owned a TS480.  It was an ok rig.  There was nothing so special about it that it just jumped out and grabbed me.  The HX model is nice to get 200 watts out.  The 2 power cords needed for that would be kind of a pain to use mobile if you switch it between the base and mobile shack. 

Actually one of the radios I have used recently that I was impressed with was the Yaesu FT950.  You can find them used for $650 or less, and it is a good radio for that price.  The noise reduction is decent, the roofing filters really make a difference.  Switching in the 3khz roofing filter would drop my noise level by 1 or 2 S units much of the time. It was also a pretty easy to operate radio, and like the FT450 had a really good IF manual notch, which beats the heck out of a automatic notch filter, which is done at the AF level.  You can turn on the autonotch and not hear a carrier, but the receiver still does and will go into desense due to the carrier's effect on the radios AGC system.

Another radio that is a real bargain right now if the Yaesu FT891.  It is less than $650 new with free shipping right now.  The user interface is different and takes some getting used to, but it comes with a 3khz roofing filter as standard, many different bandwidths for SSB and CW, a CW memory keyer that does serial numbers as well, a voice keyer, and all of the other stuff that is nice to have in a radio.  I am seriously thinking about getting one again given its price.

The Ten Tec Eagle is also showing up used for less than $1000 and that has a world class receiver in it.  Wish I knew more about what the future of Ten Tec would be.

So, don't be scared off by some (actually only a couple) about the FT450D and its limitations.  It is a great buy, very easy to operate mobile or in the base, and comes loaded with features, and is a good performing radio.

73 John AF5CC
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N4DJT

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RE: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2017, 01:37:11 PM »

Kenwood TS-590S ... selling for $800 or less these days on the second-hand market.
Was best bang-for-the-buck when new.
Still best value on the used market.

anyhow..
7410 is a really nice rig you can get them new at a reasonable prices and used they are dirt cheap now..(everyone wants a 7300 lol)
that being said.. spec wise is it the best? nope..not the worst either..solid higher middle of the road for what ya paying for.
where this rig shines is digital modes! its mostly plug and play and it just works and works well
SSB isn't too shabby either.
of all the radios on the list its the best bang for the buck.. IMHO.
I just researched a bunch before I got my 7410 it just fit my needs and budget better.
the Kenwoods are nice rigs.. I wont get into a fanboy dispute.
In the end its all about what is going to suit YOUR needs in the long run. right?
there are two questions that will get you a million different  opinions on ham radio forums..
#1 which rig should I get
#2 which antenna should I use?
LOL
Good luck hope ya find a rig the fits.


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