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[NA7Q]

Maybe someone can answer this question about APRS-IS packet rejection.
I operate two igate/digis that are within range of each other. Roughly 15 miles apart. The main server I try to use is northwest.aprs2.net. When either stations beacon, neither station will igate the packets of the other. It appears it's always dropped. But both are clearly being received and digipeated.
Sometimes the beacons get digipeated through the other and manage to get igated elsewhere.
One device is a Microsat and the other is Direwolf on a Pi. So it's not device specific.

If I change the servers to very specific ones, for example, yyz.aprs2.net (T2CAEAST), both stations will igate without issue. So why would certain servers reject the packets? All packets are in fact valid, software settings are all correct.
Many other servers act this way. Few will allow the packets to be gated.

[KB3VWG]

Are you sure that the packets are being rejected?

You noted that the packets are being digipeated, so what make you think they are 'rejected'?

The APRS-IS system will only gate a packet once. The other issue is the few ms of time it take to get to the aprs2 server.

https://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=NA7Q

It appears most of your packets were gated directly into you IS. Only a few were digipeated first.

[NA7Q]

Yes, I'm 100% sure of them being rejected. The two stations specifically are NA7Q-2 and KNAPPA.
How do I know they are being rejected? Well for example, when NA7Q-2 sends out its beacons, KNAPPA hears it AND digipeats the beacons.
From there, it's not heard by any other igate directly or from KNAPPA.
After this, looking on APRS.fi or APRSDirect.com or others, it shows no packets gated, seconds, minutes or hours later. This problem is bidirectional when using northwest.aprs2.net for example, along with others.
Currently the stations are gating properly using specific servers I hand picked. But they aren't the most reliable.

[KB3VWG]

See, this is where you keep loosing me...RF and I-Gate functionality don't quite work like you're describing...because you're not accounting that you won't see duplicates in the APRS-IS logs.

First, KNAPPA's not a callsign, it's a weather station...Next, why do you keep referring to the IGate, then referring to the RF???

Your stations won't do both, as that would be a duplicate packet. You need to look at the APRS log for the server you're connected to in order to determine if your login is sending duplicate packets to APRS2's server. At this time, you're 2 calls listed above are not connected to northwest.aprs2.net. I can tell you, though, that your NA7Q- 9 node is sending to APRS-IS - out of 52741 packets received, 40709 duplicates, with 0 erroneous packets dropped. You're racing milliseconds of time between the packet queuing a digipeater, or reaching the APRS-IS server...only one will be recorded in the APRS-IS, the other IS A DUPLICATE!

I had the same issues when I first setup to and APRS-IS server...now I can now tell if there's a connection issue on the Internet between myself and the server I chose. REMEMBER, YOUR PREFERENCE SHOULD BE FOR THE PACKET TO BE HEARD ON AIR, NOT ON THE INTERNET.

But, I did find NA7Q-2 connected to T2CAWEST...guess what??? Of 2614 packets received, 2226 are duplicates and 18 were erroneous packets dropped. And I found KNAPPA connected to T2INDIANA...of 575 packets received, 435 were duplicates and 0 erroneous packets dropped.

So again, I ask, are you sure they're being rejected???

 

[KB3VWG]

I had the same issues when I first setup to and APRS-IS server...now I can now tell if there's a connection issue on the Internet between myself and the server I chose.

My original issue was...I could never get an APRS-IS entry of my contact with the International Space Station...but I hear the ISS repeat my packet...WHY!?!?

I think if you figure that out...you'll understand what I mean.

For my ISS issue, I need more stations in my footprint at the same time, listening to the ISS...running IGates...likely, with my IGate off...and they must use directional antennas (or vice versa) if we are near each other, so they don't hear my Earth emission. Or the ISS must have an IGate itself, and be the fastest IGate for my packet. Understanding why it's only novelty for QSL purposes for the ISS to install an IGate is key here.

And correction, I didn't setup an APRS-IS Server...I meant to say, when I setup my APRS-IS IGate, too. 

[NA7Q]

See, this is where you keep loosing me...RF and I-Gate functionality don't quite work like you're describing...because you're not accounting that you won't see duplicates in the APRS-IS logs.

First, KNAPPA's not a callsign, it's a weather station...Next, why do you keep referring to the IGate, then referring to the RF???

Your stations won't do both, as that would be a duplicate packet. You need to look at the APRS log for the server you're connected to in order to determine if your login is sending duplicate packets to APRS2's server. At this time, you're 2 calls listed above are not connected to northwest.aprs2.net. I can tell you, though, that your NA7Q- 9 node is sending to APRS-IS - out of 52741 packets received, 40709 duplicates, with 0 erroneous packets dropped. You're racing milliseconds of time between the packet queuing a digipeater, or reaching the APRS-IS server...only one will be recorded in the APRS-IS, the other IS A DUPLICATE!

I had the same issues when I first setup to and APRS-IS server...now I can now tell if there's a connection issue on the Internet between myself and the server I chose. REMEMBER, YOUR PREFERENCE SHOULD BE FOR THE PACKET TO BE HEARD ON AIR, NOT ON THE INTERNET.

But, I did find NA7Q-2 connected to T2CAWEST...guess what??? Of 2614 packets received, 2226 are duplicates and 18 were erroneous packets dropped. And I found KNAPPA connected to T2INDIANA...of 575 packets received, 435 were duplicates and 0 erroneous packets dropped.

So again, I ask, are you sure they're being rejected???

 

I know duplicates from different stations won't be shown, aka, if a station is heard by two igates, it won't show up as being received by both, because it's a duplicate, only by one. I know this and this isn't my issue.

RF and IGate do work exactly as I described. Maybe you misunderstood what I meant.
First off, KNAPPA is a call sign, it's a tactical type call. It is a weather station, digipeater, and an igate.

Why do I refer to igate and then RF? Because the stations send RF beacons, and are picked up and igated by other stations. Or should be, if they are not duplicates, errors, or whatever.

My two stations are not connected to northwest.aprs2.net because the server won't gate my other stations when they beacon. It rejects them.

Despite your operation, the packet is to be heard ON THE AIR AND THEN gated to the internet. That's the whole purpose of an igate. Receive and then send to the internet, and vise versa in cases.

[NA7Q]

So let's try this again. I'll do my best to help you understand.

Don't jump to conclusions, don't base your stats on what you see from my current raw packets or stats. Currently my two stations NA7Q-2 and KNAPPA are working with each other perfectly with the hand selected servers I'm using.

How do I know the stations are rejecting each other for igating when using for example northwest.aprs2.net? Well, often neither station can be picked up by another igate station. AK9E-1 is the only one that off and on picks them up.

Now let's start with examples. KNAPPA and NA7Q-2 are igates, with digi functionality. And are within perfect range of each other.

Here's the packet NA7Q-2 will send every 30 minutes.
NA7Q-2>APRS,WIDE2-1:!4621.44N/12342.59W#PHG7180Fill-in Digi/IGate
This beacon should be gated and not treated as a duplicate correct? Correct.
Let's say KNAPPA hears it every 30 minutes. But for some reason it gets rejected by the server every time. No other station has heard this beacon for days and didn't hear it this time, except KNAPPA. Should it be rejected? NO. Is it? YES.
But why? No idea, they aren't bad packets, they aren't duplicates, otherwise my TNCs, Direwolf and Microsat, would also reject them.
The same result also happens from KNAPPA to NA7Q-2.

What reason would there be that neither could gate each others RF packets using the northwest server, and others? But would using the T2CAEAST or T2INDIANA servers, and others?

So let's hope this clears up things. If it doesn't. How bout a live chat some time? You do Facebook, irc or any other live chats?

[KB3VWG]

My two stations are not connected to northwest.aprs2.net because the server won't gate my other stations when they beacon. It rejects them.

Despite your operation, the packet is to be heard ON THE AIR AND THEN gated to the internet. That's the whole purpose of an igate. Receive and then send to the internet, and vise versa in cases.

OK...let me pump my brakes...maybe I don't understand what you mean.

- You showed a copy of the packet...you're using a client 'APRS'...and you use WIDE2-1...why are you not using WIDE2-2 (just curious)?

- But you bring up something...are you applying filters, connected to the correct port for that server, etc?

- What APRS client are you using?

- You say: "the server won't gate my other stations when they beacon. It rejects them" AND "Despite your operation, the packet is to be heard ON THE AIR AND THEN gated to the Internet. That's the whole purpose of an igate". I understand this...are you saying though that nobody digipeated it?

- Are you also saying you're the only IGated Digipeater and/or silent APRS station with an RF-toAPRS-IS in your footprint? How are you ensuring it's YOUR stations that receive the packet (first)?

- Just to confirm, it is on the National APRS frequency, correct?

- You mention the server, I noted the statistics from the logs...please explain your terminology "rejected." Perhaps this is not on the APRS level...but IP...?

- Yes, it's a tactical call indeed


- KB3BWG

[NA7Q]

That APRS client is a Microsat. It doesn't need WIDE2-2 or anything more than one hop. Despite typical operation, clogging up the airwaves with redundant packets is unnecessary in many cases. This one for sure. The network is already beyond over crowded and congested so much so, that packet loss is high.

My only filters are for IS to RF. So it filters to only allow messages within x miles.


I'm saying my packets are always digipeated by the other, but never igated when using specific servers.

It is on the national frequency.

How do I know my stations are the first to receive? They aren't always. As mentioned, sometimes another station will igate. But not always. When they aren't, they don't get gated elsewhere.
My stations hear the packets, digipeat, but don't igate, again, on specific servers.

By rejected, I mean, the packet is sent to the server and rejected. But again, only on specific servers.

It's clearly a server problem. Because switching servers makes it so the packets ARE gated and seen online. They otherwise aren't.

[KB3VWG]

OK, all I can suggest is - to ensure that the servers you select aren't marked red on this list:

http://status.aprs2.net/


73,

KB3VWG

[NA7Q]

Indeed. I've been careful with selecting servers. Only downside of having to use some of the ones I do is the slow ping times between me and some of the servers.
Thanks for the effort in helping.
73