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Author Topic: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.  (Read 12325 times)

K1VSK

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2019, 05:15:32 PM »

"How many HOAs DO allow “reasonable accommodations”?

Absent some quantitative answer, no one knows if or how much of a problem exists despite the unfounded claims of a few. 

Yep, that's more like it!

73 DE W8LV BILL

All of the many with which I am familiar. You lose, again.



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W8LV

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2019, 05:30:51 PM »

K1VSK said "All of the many with which I am familiar. You lose, again."

Oh? Not familiar enough, and just who made you the expert?

It's pretty hard to miss those NUMEROUS YouTube links that show the HOAs for the dinosaurs that they are.

So keep pretending a "Victory" Good Sir Knight, but I HAVE Crossed The Bridge.

Better Luck Next Time!

73 DE W8LV BILL
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W8LV

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2019, 05:49:51 PM »

PRC said: "Also, the definition of "reasonable" varies with the person defining it."

Yep! True!

So we need legislation to "define it a little better" for the HOAs. And let's NOT forget CC&R's!
An outright Preemption just like the OTARD one would be also quite useful here.

You know, when the PRB reasonable accomodation was placed for the Municipalities, not a lot of wording was necessary. Just "boilerplate" that for the HOAs and such, and PROBLEM SOLVED WITH THE STROKE OF A PEN! Thus, NEW BOILERPLATE replaces the old OPPRESSIVE BOILERPLATE, through petition and the Rule of Law.

And History Turns a Page...

73 DE W8LV BILL
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WA7PRC

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #63 on: June 02, 2019, 06:32:43 PM »

Also, the definition of "reasonable" varies with the person defining it.

Yep! True!

So we need legislation to "define it a little better" for the HOAs. And let's NOT forget CC&R's!
An outright Preemption just like the OTARD one would be also quite useful here.

You know, when the PRB reasonable accomodation was placed for the Municipalities, not a lot of wording was necessary. Just "boilerplate" that for the HOAs and such, and PROBLEM SOLVED WITH THE STROKE OF A PEN! Thus, NEW BOILERPLATE replaces the old OPPRESSIVE BOILERPLATE, through petition and the Rule of Law.
The FIRST thing to do is identify a "public need or convenience" (government terminology) that justifies abrogating tens of millions of freely-entered private contracts/agreements/promises/whatever, so less than 0.25% can erect an outdoor antenna. If so, ya'd think there would be some (any) public outcry. Even ARRL ARES is silent. So far, this is just about what a few only WANT.

HOAs aren't the same as municipalities (references to PRB-1 are irrelevant).
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W8LV

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2019, 06:55:48 PM »

PRC said "The FIRST thing to do is identify a "public need...."
But he's got the Horse before the cart:
Whose "need" is larger here:

Gladys?
Or the Hams?

The Aesthetics of the HOA Gladys Kravitz types have so far been put first.
But does her "need" outweigh the Ham having an antenna?
No. That's what she simply "wants" and does not need.
Where is HER "public need" not to see an antenna?

It doesn't exist!

And government statutes on that one? No, they don't exist, either. Not one iota.
However, we DO have a need for a trained pool of people in the radio art.
And it's ALL spelled out in Part 97!
Thus, Gladys does NOT have a right to impose ANYTHING that curtails that trained pool,
Ever. GLADYS needs curtailment here, and NOT the Ham!


The same can be said of Cell Towers, where Gladys wants 5G service, but not a tower in HER backyard!
Why, in here West Palm Beach (where Gladys lives) THAT kind of stuff needs to be on the "other side of town!"
Irrational "wants" and "needs" on the part of Gladys? I Think So!


So her "wants" and "needs" don't correlate. This is because they are not rational, because SHE is not rational.
When you begin to see a Spoiled Impetant Child in Big Girls Clothes, you begin to see more clearly.
Thus is the case...  And it's time to stop cowtowing to Gladys. Been High Time, for Years. This is True for Gladys Kravitz types of BOTH genders.

Don't worry...She will get over it, before moving on to some more "important" issues, like if plastic bags and soda straws should be made illegal. Or a whole host of other "important issues" to deal with in her "busy" life.

73 DE W8LV
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 07:11:22 PM by W8LV »
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W9FIB

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #65 on: June 03, 2019, 02:12:20 AM »

I think for the most part, HOA's get the bad rap because they are the face of the enforcement of the CC&Rs. How many of the complaints against HOA's are made by people who didn't follow the rules and got some form of punishment for their actions. I can't answer that, but all too often it is a matter of "I did something, I got warned, I didn't heed the warning, so they punished me, so it is HOA's fault I am punished". That is the way most complaints read to me. That does not mean there is no "over reach", but far too often sour grapes are trying to be argued as "over reach" when there are clearly stated rules to be followed and enforced.

Some form of legislation is fine, as long as you don't need a lawyer to use the legislation to your favor. That was the major problem with the last bill. There was so little definition that was written in that it still was anyone's guess as to what you actually could or could not do. So interpretation then falls back on the HOA to make a determination based on the law and the CC&Rs.

And therein is the problem. Specificity vs. broad application that fits the most properties and desires of the owners. PRB-1 still all too often has to be litigated due to lack of specificity. And that already has a truckload of precedence behind it. Can you imagine the amount of litigation that would be needed for a piece of legislation with very little specificity built in? Ask 50 people what reasonable would be and I bet you get 50 different answers.

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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

N4UE

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #66 on: June 03, 2019, 01:14:53 PM »

Hi. I don't have a dog in this fight, but been there, lost my A$$ and moved to my present QTH, which let's me, be 'me'.

One thing.... Yesterday, there was a news thread on the www about HOAs and 'neighbors from hell'. Hilarious reading!!!

The one that cracked me up, was the HOA "INSPECTOR" who used a photo stick on her smartphone to look OVER a resident's fence, LOOKING for 'bad' stuff!

You can't make this stuff up!

I never lived in a HOA, but I had the 'neighbors from hell' who sued me (and lost)….

keep up the fight!!!

ron
N4UE
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If you're not the lead sled dog, the view never changes......

ONAIR

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #67 on: June 03, 2019, 05:46:24 PM »

Hi. I don't have a dog in this fight, but been there, lost my A$$ and moved to my present QTH, which let's me, be 'me'.

One thing.... Yesterday, there was a news thread on the www about HOAs and 'neighbors from hell'. Hilarious reading!!!

The one that cracked me up, was the HOA "INSPECTOR" who used a photo stick on her smartphone to look OVER a resident's fence, LOOKING for 'bad' stuff!

You can't make this stuff up!

I never lived in a HOA, but I had the 'neighbors from hell' who sued me (and lost)….

keep up the fight!!!

ron
N4UE
  Heard that some HOA Gestapo types are even using drones now!! :o
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K1VSK

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #68 on: June 03, 2019, 06:23:17 PM »


Heard that some HOA Gestapo types are even using drones now!! :o

Now there is a reliable source of information.
Did you also “hear” they have mounted Mauser machine guns and use cattle cars to haul offenders away for “resettlement”?

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W8LV

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #69 on: June 03, 2019, 08:09:45 PM »

VSK... What about the offer to go Halfsies on those books for Former Senator Nelson?

73 DE W8LV BILL
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WA7PRC

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2019, 08:46:13 PM »

The FIRST thing to do is identify a "public need or convenience" (government terminology) that justifies abrogating tens of millions of freely-entered private contracts/agreements/promises/whatever, so less than 0.25% can erect an outdoor antenna. If so, ya'd think there would be some (any) public outcry. Even ARRL ARES is silent. So far, this is just about what a few only WANT.
Whose "need" is larger here:

Gladys?
Or the Hams?

[intentionally insulting verbose sarcasm deleted]
Hams have no directive to be on the air at home. Public agencies aren't crying for hams to be on the air at home. Therefore, hams have no need to be on the air at home.

OTOH, I have read a few accounts of some need for hams to be on the air at/near disaster locations. That presumes mobile/portable operation (IOW, not at home).

Again, this is only about the WANT (no need) of some hams.
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K7JQ

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #71 on: June 04, 2019, 05:39:31 AM »

Quote from: ONAIR link=topic=120378.msg1128955#msg1128955 date=1559609184
[/quote
  Heard that some HOA Gestapo types are even using drones now!! :o

Gotta shake my head at the numbnuts that compare living in an HOA community to Nazi Gestapo encampments...especially those that never lived in one ???.
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W8LV

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #72 on: June 04, 2019, 05:40:57 AM »

PRC said: "Hams have no directive to be on the air at home."

NO.... It's GLADYS who has no directive to interfere with what people do in their homes.
And certainly, no one is crying that we need more Gladys types to do so, either.

We want to optimize the number of ops both monitoring for any potential emergency,
and to be at the READY, and it's obvious that is best done FROM OUR RESIDENCES as a practicality.
Where we can shelter in place ourselves, again as a practicality.

Just like YOU do from YOUR RESIDENCE.
Unless you want to hang out monitoring the Weather Net from your car all night.
Not safe. Not PRACTICAL.

It sounds like you must have missed Revision 1.2 of The Parity Test altogether!

73 DE W8LV BILL

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K1VSK

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #73 on: June 04, 2019, 06:28:09 AM »

PRC said: "Hams have no directive to be on the air at home."

NO.... It's GLADYS who has no directive to interfere with what people do in their homes.
And certainly, no one is crying that we need more Gladys types to do so, either.

We want to optimize the number of ops both monitoring for any potential emergency,
and to be at the READY, and it's obvious that is best done FROM OUR RESIDENCES as a practicality.
Where we can shelter in place ourselves, again as a practicality.

Just like YOU do from YOUR RESIDENCE.
Unless you want to hang out monitoring the Weather Net from your car all night.
Not safe. Not PRACTICAL.

It sounds like you must have missed Revision 1.2 of The Parity Test altogether!

73 DE W8LV BILL



While debating opposing perspectives can be interesting, your posts offer nothing but nonsense. No one sits in front of a radio all day "monitoring for emergencies". That's ludicrous!

Unless your intent is simply to waste space, please come up with something to at least create the appearance of being meaningful.
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K7JQ

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RE: D.H.S. and F.E.M.A.
« Reply #74 on: June 04, 2019, 07:02:34 AM »

Hams have no directive to be on the air at home. Public agencies aren't crying for hams to be on the air at home. Therefore, hams have no need to be on the air at home.

OTOH, I have read a few accounts of some need for hams to be on the air at/near disaster locations. That presumes mobile/portable operation (IOW, not at home).

Again, this is only about the WANT (no need) of some hams.


For once I agree with PRC on one point :D. With today's communications technology, municipalities don't have to rely on amateur radio emergency operations as much as in the past. There is no public service NEED to be on the air from home, but arguments for hams to have residential antennas shouldn't be based on that premise alone. The fact is, we're Federally licensed operators, and should have some rights to pursue our hobby within reason, no matter where we live. Ragchew, DX, contesting...no matter.

When I say "within reason", if you move into a community with CC&R antenna restrictions (not "prohibitions"), I see nothing wrong with having low visual impact antennas that don't infringe upon the rights or safety of others. My definition of "reasonable accommodation" would be HF verticals and wire antennas, and small VHF/UHF yagis, period. I admit  that the only flaw with this would be arguments about height and number of antennas permissible...always something to debate. I don't have a magic answer for that. But anyone that wants to have a HF triband beam on a tower or roof mounted, on a postage-stamp sized lot with a neighbor ten feet away should buy elsewhere.

W8LV...who the hell is Gladys Kravitz ;D? You sure have a grudge against her!

73,  Bob K7JQ
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