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Author Topic: Do served organizations really want our help?  (Read 6705 times)

KB8VUL

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #60 on: November 08, 2019, 03:45:27 AM »

Stan:

Most hams ARE NOT QUALIFIED to service commercial radio installations.  You need a commercial license with the appropriate endorsement.  And test equipment with traceable calibrations -- no RatShack or MFJ gear.

     

As a commercial radio technician with over 10 years in the field, I can absolutely tell you this statement is false.
The FCC removed the requirement for a two way radio tech to carry a license.  And removed the liability for the repairs being correct on the shoulders of the tech and put in on the license holder.
The only radio services that still have a licensed tech do the repairs are maritime, avionics and radar. 

Some manufactures require it, or something similar (Motorola requires a CET certification, and a Motorola certification) due to the actual GROL having become no different than a ham license (all answers are available in study books)


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W9FIB

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2019, 03:03:27 AM »

But on the other hand, most hams do not have the experience to walk in to a 911 center and repair it. Nor would I expect the local authorities to accept help from such an undocumented source. At least repair techs have the company name to work under which should give more credibility to the claim they can fix things.

But that is all beside the point. If you only want to play radio in an emergency, you will probably never be asked to help. If you do what it takes to help your fellow neighbors, you will be appreciated and called. It is that simple.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

KB8VUL

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #62 on: November 09, 2019, 06:57:33 AM »

I agree that having a Technician class license for the amateur radio service doesn't actually make you a radio technician.  I found that out myself in the beginning when I left the IT world and started working on radios professionally. 

As far as being activated as ARES in a disaster to do grunt work.  No.  If you are turning a school gym into a barracks to house displaced members of a community your volunteers are right there,  the displaced individuals.  The folks that are going to be taking advantage of the hospitality of the Red Cross or what ever agency that is setting up the shelter should be assisting if physically able to. 

We aren't Red Cross volunteers.  And we aren't CERT or SAR or any of that. 
And honestly, if we can't provide a service that fits under the ARES umbrella then we need to fold our tents and call it a day.
Too many of us are thinking about what WE personally can do.  Yes, I can physically setup tables and cots and cook and make coffee.  But the guys that are hams ahead of me that aren't under 60 years old, they may not be able to do that stuff. ARES isn't a ME thing... It's a WE the hams thing.  And if WE collectively can't provide the service that we train and prepare for then why even exist as ARES.  IF you want to go setup cots and fill coffee cups you certainly don't need a ham license, radio, light bar or OFFICIAL AMATEUR RADIO BADGE to do any of that.  And I promise that regardless of being called up, deployed or what ever, if you show up to a shelter and tell them you want to help, you will be given the chance.

If you want to assist the public via technical knowledge, figure out what people in a disaster shelter would need in this situation and help with that. 
I spoke with a person that was in public safety in Boston during the marathon bombing.  They bought out 3 cell phone stores of all they phone chargers.  Do you think that as folks are displaced by fire or flooding that they will stop to get their charge cables.  They will have their phones, because most people carry a phone like it's an appendage.  Charge kiosks would be a God sent in a shelter.  Put WiFi in them with a mail and basic http traffic only access to the internet, with facebook bandwidth limited or blocked (if you do that put up signs that its blocked) so the displaced can get word out to family where they are and their physical condition (I'm alive).  To go a step further, build out some stable frames with flat screens on them and news feeds with software backup via a computer scrolling information to keep people informed.  One thing with this.  Never show specific information from boots on the ground from the area's the people have been displaced from.  You will upset them worse if you show their house burning down, or being looted.  And the minute they see it, they will demand someone go deal with it.  IT turns into a problem.  Work with the public safety agency to get whitewashed information.  And a side note... setup a big screen or projector to run cartoons for the kids.  Mundane, NON-POLITICAL stuff is best.

Consider that we are there to pass information. 
If you are passing information then you are under the ARES umbrella.
THAT is what we do.
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W9FIB

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2019, 01:12:37 AM »

Which is why you will be ignored.

Being in ARES should not be a limitation, just a good start. Simple. Easy to understand.

And actually what is wrong with being in multiple organizations? Doing multiple duties? Helping the people who need help?

We disagree on this and I base my knowledge on working with local governments here. I also base it on the fact that volunteerism is quite lacking these days cause no one wants to be involved anymore. 35 years ago there was a waiting list for people to join the local fire department here. Today the roster is only about half full with even less being "active". So being multidiscipline is almost becoming a necessity.

So if you don't want to do it, fine. Don't get in the way of those that do.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

KB8VUL

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2019, 08:27:45 AM »

Hold on.... Don't think that if you are a ham and want to pour coffee or whatever that you shouldn't do it because you are a ham.
If you want to pour coffee, setup cots, or whatever, DO IT.  If you want to be a registered volunteer for Red Cross, ARES, CERT, SAR and the dog catcher, by all means get after it.  Actually caring for displaced pets and animals is a fine thing to be doing.

What I am getting at is specifically about ARES and the number of hams that I hear complain about showing up with their radios only to be told to put them away because the communications and technology portions of the disaster are covered and their help is not required.  When you get into that situation, you need to have a different path to take, other than the one back home. 

So my point is that we are not doctors or nurses, except for those of us that actually ARE doctors and nurses every day.  So our skill set is not as valuable as it once was.  We need a new skill set to bring to the table as ARES.  And it's not that putting together charging kiosks with a WiFi access point and mesh backhaul to the web is difficult.  But if no one else is doing it, then we can be.  AND when you present that, not only to the EMA / Red Cross folks, but to the public at large, you will gain some interest in WHAT we do as hams, and maybe a few members as well. And THAT is a positive thing. 

But for all those reading this, again,  if you are capable and comfortable with putting down the radio, and just doing whatever, by all means do it.
People anymore as a rule seem to want to take advantage as much as possible.  And when the Red Cross asks for volunteers from the displaced, very few hands go up.  So fill that void.   For those that want to pound your fist against the table and publicly make yourself look silly while ranting about how no one listened to the hams during Katrina (I personally witnessed this) then you need to have something to make yourself feel needed.  Or if your not that die hard, but still want to do something of a technical nature, then this sort of stuff fills that void.


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K6CPO

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2019, 02:19:30 PM »


What I am getting at is specifically about ARES and the number of hams that I hear complain about showing up with their radios only to be told to put them away because the communications and technology portions of the disaster are covered and their help is not required.  When you get into that situation, you need to have a different path to take, other than the one back home. 

If you're a member of an established ARES group, the group will have a pre-established mission going in to an emergency.  And that group won't deploy until told to do so. The people you're talking about are the ones that aren't part of an established group with all the vetting and memorandums of understanding already in place. They are the ones that self-deploy with an over-inflated sense of their own importance.  They are the ones that will be turned away the door.

More and more, served agencies are requiring amateur radio operators to be familiar with the Incident Command System (ICS) and the National Incident Management System (NIMS) before they can even begin to participate. This usually takes the form of the FEMA online courses, ICS100, 200, 700 and 800. This is the direction the league is going with the new ARES Standardized Training Plan.   Taking the idea one step further is the Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) of The Department of Homeland Security.  They now have a 20 hour Auxiliary Communications (AUXCOMM) course specifically to ham radio operators selected by their agency's EC.

So, in a nutshell, there are places for amateur radio operators to exercise their skills in the event of an emergency.  IF they are willing to put in the necessary preparation...
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N8AUC

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2019, 05:30:05 PM »

K6CPO is spot on!
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W9FIB

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2019, 03:22:06 AM »

So, in a nutshell, there are places for amateur radio operators to exercise their skills in the event of an emergency.  IF they are willing to put in the necessary preparation...

Exactly. My point is our preparation and skills should not be a limiting factor. It may be our main mission, but should never be our sole mission.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

KB8VUL

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2019, 03:56:34 AM »

As far as the table pounder.  This guy, who claimed to be the EC for his area, also claimed that his house was a designated backup EOC for the county.  And they had started up ham nets to pass traffic before the storm had made landfall.  I would venture a guess that they discussed everything from fuel prices to what stores had toilet paper.  I sat and listened to some of the HF nets, and it was like they were watching Fox News and reporting off what was on TV.  Which led me back to the bigger question, what are we providing?  Because the most important thing in a disaster is situational awareness in real time.  If you can get that from the news media, then we aren't needed for that any more.   If we can provide other services, then great.  If we can't then we put away the electronic toys and wash dishes.  I am just saying that with our technology and aptitude we should be able to come up with some other 'techie' method for assisting.  And when we aren't seen as old farts with tube radios communicating with each other using CW and doing cutting edge stuff.  Then we are 'needed' in the eye of the public.  And that may even interest others to joining our ranks.
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K6CPO

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2019, 10:57:49 AM »

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WB6TIX

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2019, 08:21:00 PM »

The "it's beneath me to make coffee" thought amuses me a bit.

I get paid to "do" disaster communications stuff and as soon as things start running smoothly, I or one of the others in the comm unit get "the coffee system" up and running.  That "skill and attention to detail" ensures we are treated *VERY* well. :-)

Please, don't think that "it's beneath me to make coffee".
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KA4GFY

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2019, 08:11:58 AM »

I will second N8AUC’s comment that K6CPO is spot on.

I will add that for good or bad, gone are the days where a ham can show up at an incident and expect to be put to work without any connection to the organization(s) handing the incident.  In the world we live in today, a random volunteer is not known to the agency may likely be turned away.  They don’t know who you are.  Hence, the importance of becoming involved with your local ARES, RACES or AUXCOM group.

The other reality is the requirement for training.  As K6CPO pointed out, served agencies are requiring the FEMA courses to participate.  The FEMA courses are not that difficult.  Each one can be completed over a few lunch hours.  From the ham radio side, the ARRL EC-001 class is not that difficult either.  They just take a little time.   

The bottom line is, here are the requirements.  You can take the training or not play.   

73,
Rich, KA4GFY
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KI4SDY

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2019, 05:27:09 PM »

In the Orlando, FL area, they have similar 800 MHz systems for most of the public safety agencies. But they always seem to need Ham help manning the disaster shelters every hurricane season along with annual community events. The key is having your local ham club supply and install a VHF transceiver for the local County EMS Office, so they have a way to communicate with your organization.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 05:30:43 PM by KI4SDY »
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KI4SDY

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2019, 06:29:01 PM »

Also, we have a "Report in Place" system set up with the local county EMS during hurricanes. Many Hams stay at home with their family and report on conditions in our neighborhood along with requests for emergency services from neighbors when the cell phones are out (happens every hurricane). Your equipment is already set up at home and if the local EMS has VHF set up at their office, it works out perfectly for everyone. They have a map with our locations and call signs so if they need information for a particular area, they know who to call.
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W3XH

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Re: Do served organizations really want our help?
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2020, 08:51:32 PM »

our emergency managers want us involved, in my opinion i am there to help, if it making coffee that needs to be done ok if it is setting up a net or supplying first responders with more communication options ok, .  need something delivered ok, need food brought to the troops ok, need a communications net that can talk to the whole county ok.  is my truck a mobile communications center yep.  need a relay set up ok.

  it is about public service not just radios  taking care of our neighbors is the goal, facilitating that care in any way possible is the role we play.
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