Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Yep, that would have been too easy...  (Read 3426 times)

KX4QP

  • Member
  • Posts: 407
Yep, that would have been too easy...
« on: May 02, 2019, 04:10:34 PM »

I've been having trouble getting into my club's weekly nets.  I have a 2m HT, and use repeaters routinely -- but none of the repeaters that connect to the club net are reachable from my home (at least with the 8W HT I have).  I was thinking recently that soon, I might be able to get in via the one 10m repeater that joins that system just for the net -- I've got a Heathkit SB-102 that does CW and SSB in 80/40/20/10.

Then I realized that, first, it would be difficult to make a repeater reliably retransmit voice in SSB because of the fine tuning ("clarifier" adjustment) that's often needed even with synthesized oscillators and tuners to get the offset just right, and second, most repeaters seem to run FM (and sometimes one or more digital modes).

I wonder if there's a way to connect an FM modulator to an SB-102?  Probably ought to ask that over on the Boat Anchor forum...
Logged

K5LXP

  • Member
  • Posts: 6823
    • homeURL
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2019, 08:22:13 PM »


Can you hit that 10M repeater?  If it's CSQ you could transmit CW and see if you can bring it up to see if it's even possible.  But making an old SSB boatanchor do FM, I'd pass on that project.  You can buy a quad  band FM mobile and check a lot of boxes with that.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
Logged

K0UA

  • Member
  • Posts: 9589
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2019, 06:03:00 AM »


Can you hit that 10M repeater?  If it's CSQ you could transmit CW and see if you can bring it up to see if it's even possible.  But making an old SSB boatanchor do FM, I'd pass on that project.  You can buy a quad  band FM mobile and check a lot of boxes with that.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM


When he says CSQ, he means carrier  squelch. which I will almost guarantee it is not. It will almost certainly require a CTCSS  (Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System) tone. Another less generic name for that is PL (Private Line). So the idea of using your old Heathkit to key up the repeater on CW modes is not likely to work. Since you have no way of generating that tone, much less FM'ing the old heathkit, you need to scrap this idea.  Why not put your focus on putting up an antenna that will allow your 2 meter ht to hit the nearest repeater.  Much more likely to have success with that endeavor in my opinion. Of course buying a new/used HF rig with 10 meter FM with CTCSS capability is an option, but you don't know if you could hit that 10 meter link any better, plus you would need a 10 meter vertical antenna of some kind, and might likely need a 10 meter vertical beam.  Put you money and time into something you know will work, and that is a good 2 meter vertical antenna to hit the nearest repeater.
Logged
73  James K0UA

SOFAR

  • Member
  • Posts: 1640
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2019, 11:54:38 AM »

I would put money into an antenna.

A dual-band NMO mount, 1/2 wave on 2 meters, collinear on 440. Can be used with an NMO mag mount, and also be mounted on a vehicle when you drill a hole.

Point being, it's something that can be used at home, and on the vehicle. And eventually dedicated to a vehicle, when you acquire a proper base antenna.

You haven't mentioned a mobile antenna, I don't see how an HT can work from inside a vehicle. Stick the antenna out the window?  ;)
Logged

KX4QP

  • Member
  • Posts: 407
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2019, 05:57:32 PM »

I am trying to put my time and money into something that will work -- and that doesn't include trying to punch a 2m signal through a couple hundred feet of hilltop ridge, twice, between me and the nearest repeater on the club's net.

However, since I know I can't transmit through terrain, I'm trying to find out what will work.

If you don't see how an HT can work from inside a vehicle, you've obviously never tried it.  Works fine; I can get full quiet (with 8W rated output on 2m on a Nagoya 771) on a repeater nearly 20 miles away (well up a 500 foot radio tower).  Yes, an external antenna would be better; I'm working toward that to go with the 65W car-mount 2m rig I plan to install.  Meanwhile, I don't claim to fully understand how a 2m signal can squeeze out of a Fiesta, but it does.

And no, the 10m repeater I was thinking about isn't CSQ; it's CTCSS aka PL tone.

Now, if someone wants to come down to my house (roundly 60 feet below average terrain around here) and try to hit the repeaters I'm after, I'm all ears.  Or if you can suggest how to build a mast high enough to bother for $50 or so (if I can do that, i can build a Yagi for similar money or less and have some chance of getting over those ridges).  The last mast I saw for sale, however, was far out of my budget.

Otherwise, my current priority for the home shack is getting my HF rig up and running, and its antenna up, because 2m isn't my primary interest. 
Logged

K0UA

  • Member
  • Posts: 9589
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2019, 07:46:31 PM »

Knife edge diffraction will often put a signal down in the valley when you might not that it would.

You might be very surprised what a 25 foot mast and a 10 element beam would do for you. Even a home brew 5 element might surprise you.
Logged
73  James K0UA

KX4QP

  • Member
  • Posts: 407
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2019, 07:11:54 AM »

Knife edge diffraction will often put a signal down in the valley when you might not that it would.

You might be very surprised what a 25 foot mast and a 10 element beam would do for you. Even a home brew 5 element might surprise you.

So, it's your advice that I spend time and resources on something like that, with the likelihood I'll wind up with a mast and Yagi that don't actually do me any good at all?  Now, I could at least build a mast that size from lumber, but with the price of studs these days, I'd still have $50 into it before I even assemble the antenna.

I suppose most hams will just drop $50 without thinking -- but I can't do that.  I can spend that where I think it will do some good (I just received a straight key kit and Morseduino 2 that cost about that each), but this month, I'd be choosing between coax/connectors/assembly tools and the mast, and still not be able to build or raise the Yagi until July at the earliest.
Logged

SOFAR

  • Member
  • Posts: 1640
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2019, 01:25:58 PM »

Yes, I would put the money into something that will work. Focus on an aspect of radio that you're currently (interests can change over time) interested in, and stick with it until completion.

If you're going to ask for advice on 3 different projects, you can expect the solutions to require time and expenditures.

A hobby is supposed to be enjoyable. If it's causing stress, it's time for a break.
Regroup. Choose a direction.


Which 65 watt mobile are you looking at, Icom?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 01:31:18 PM by SOFAR »
Logged

KX4QP

  • Member
  • Posts: 407
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2019, 03:49:14 PM »

Which 65 watt mobile are you looking at, Icom?

I'm considering a Yaesu FTM-3100R -- compact, CHIRP compatible, 5/30/65W power settings.  The biggest thing I'm after is something that's less distracting on the road than my HT (grab the mike and squeeze, vs. hunt down the earpiece cord, get the microphone oriented right, push that button -- and hopefully less distraction to change channels than having to push keys on a pad I can't reliably orient by feel), with enough power and antenna gain improvement to cover the current dead spot between the repeater I can reach from home and the one I can reach from work.

That won't do anything to solve my problem with the club nets, though, and apparently neither will getting my HF rig running.
Logged

SOFAR

  • Member
  • Posts: 1640
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2019, 04:20:35 PM »

I'm considering the Icom ic-2300h. Has a physical squelch knob, 5, 10, 25, 65 watts.
https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-011532

Or may go with a dual-band from Icom, or Kenwood.

Logged

N2AYM

  • Member
  • Posts: 375
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2019, 08:17:48 AM »

I've been having trouble getting into my club's weekly nets.  I have a 2m HT, and use repeaters routinely -- but none of the repeaters that connect to the club net are reachable from my home (at least with the 8W HT I have).  I was thinking recently that soon, I might be able to get in via the one 10m repeater that joins that system just for the net -- I've got a Heathkit SB-102 that does CW and SSB in 80/40/20/10.

Then I realized that, first, it would be difficult to make a repeater reliably retransmit voice in SSB because of the fine tuning ("clarifier" adjustment) that's often needed even with synthesized oscillators and tuners to get the offset just right, and second, most repeaters seem to run FM (and sometimes one or more digital modes).

I wonder if there's a way to connect an FM modulator to an SB-102?  Probably ought to ask that over on the Boat Anchor forum...

So what HT do you have that does 8W TX?
Logged

K4JJL

  • Member
  • Posts: 1194
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2019, 10:55:35 AM »

So what HT do you have that does 8W TX?

I think Icom made one for 2m years ago.  It got hotter than a firecracker and battery life was terrible at high power.
Logged

KX4QP

  • Member
  • Posts: 407
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2019, 03:39:16 PM »

Well, the manufacturer claims I'm radiating 8W on high power TX -- it's a BaoFeng BF-F8HP.  Three settings; 1W, 4W, and 8W (says the manual).  With a Nagoya 771 mounted, I can key a repeater from a hilltop at 40 miles, and be heard well enough to conduct a QSO.  First thing I did when I got it was order an extended battery (which turned out to be a set of two such).  I haven't done anything with it yet that involved a lot of transmitting, but it'll listen for days on one extended battery.  With 3800 mAh at 7.4V, I should be able to count on two-plus hours of solid transmit time on a single battery (assuming the radio isn't just dissipating so much heat I could use it to make toast).  Since I have the original battery (2500 mAh) plus a pair of extended ones, I ought to have enough battery life for a lot of QSOs.
Logged

KC0UKR

  • Member
  • Posts: 46
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2019, 12:46:06 PM »

I would borrow a full power mobile from someone local and build a simple Copper J-Pole and try that from the house just to see if you can get any real sense of what may or may not work.
Or even better borrow an antenna too,I have no idea where you are but around here that would be a pretty simple thing to get done.
Logged

K5LXP

  • Member
  • Posts: 6823
    • homeURL
RE: Yep, that would have been too easy...
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2019, 04:13:55 PM »

 
Another option is to use terrain analysis to see if coverage is possible.  Not 100% definitive but more conclusive than an internet forum.

https://www.ve2dbe.com/rmonline_s.asp

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
 
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up