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Author Topic: Why are digital communications becoming so popular?  (Read 1615 times)

W5RBB

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Why are digital communications becoming so popular?
« on: May 10, 2019, 07:43:26 AM »

I am seeing all these different ways to communicate via computer or digitally. What is the big deal? You can do that already with FaceTime or VOIP or even text messaging. I’ve got a dstar radio myself but to me the fun of of doing this is being able to communicate with someone over the air. And of course when the SHTF more than likely all these digital ways will be down. So is the reason to use these digital forms just to have a cleaner signal? Just the other night I talked to a guy in Canada from Texas on 20m. Had a nice conversation and thought it was much cooler communicating over the air than logging into a computer. In some ways the old ways are better. What is your opinion?
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K4JJL

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RE: Why are digital communications becoming so popular?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2019, 12:36:02 PM »

Because the band conditions are such garbage right now, people invented other ways to punch through the noise.
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KD0REQ

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RE: Why are digital communications becoming so popular?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2019, 02:46:44 PM »

further, the DSP algorithms are set to reject the random junk and pass what is NOT random for some number of microseconds. high DSP will chop up voice traffic. since digital radio is basically tones at fixed clock rates, sampling them out of the slop is reasonably easy. the signal rate of digital radio data is fairly slow, on par with 110 baud at best, so you can take a pretty good number of samples and spit out the data with little impairment. as in getting pictures from deep space probes, signal you can't hear in noise you can't stand comes through cleanly.
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W9IQ

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RE: Why are digital communications becoming so popular?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2019, 03:07:11 PM »

further, the DSP algorithms are set to reject the random junk and pass what is NOT random for some number of microseconds. high DSP will chop up voice traffic. since digital radio is basically tones at fixed clock rates, sampling them out of the slop is reasonably easy. the signal rate of digital radio data is fairly slow, on par with 110 baud at best, so you can take a pretty good number of samples and spit out the data with little impairment. as in getting pictures from deep space probes, signal you can't hear in noise you can't stand comes through cleanly.

Not at all. I recommend that you spend some time understanding DSP techniques and the concept of noise power bandwidth before authoring anymore guidance or advice on this topic.

When you can comfortably and accurately explain, in simple terms, where the majority of the minus dB sensitivity of FT8 is actually attributable to, you will know you understand the basics of the technology.

- Glenn W9IQ
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 03:22:51 PM by W9IQ »
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

W4JCK

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RE: Why are digital communications becoming so popular?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2019, 10:48:54 AM »

I am seeing all these different ways to communicate via computer or digitally. What is the big deal? You can do that already with FaceTime or VOIP or even text messaging. I’ve got a dstar radio myself but to me the fun of of doing this is being able to communicate with someone over the air. And of course when the SHTF more than likely all these digital ways will be down. So is the reason to use these digital forms just to have a cleaner signal? Just the other night I talked to a guy in Canada from Texas on 20m. Had a nice conversation and thought it was much cooler communicating over the air than logging into a computer. In some ways the old ways are better. What is your opinion?

Two elements at work here - digital voice communications and digital data communications.  Formats like D-Star, DMR and whatever the Yaesu flavor is called seem to be nothing more than another way to do the same thing you could do with analog FM.  Of course, you can hook up dongles and communicate over the internet and connect through distant repeaters.  I guess that is popular amongst some folks.  I've got a D-Star radio and after going through the rigors, I used it a few times.  I may be dense but I'm just not getting the attraction of it.  That's just me though.

Now digital data is a bigger deal.  The groundswell on HF I think reflects more than just crappy propagation.  The popularity of keyboard-to-keyboard comms versus a voice contact signals what I think (yes, my opinion) is a fundamental shift.  Two different market studies - one in 2016 and one in 2017 - brought to light that the group known as Millennials prefer texting over voice contact.  The ratio of text to voice usage (with cellphones) was 5 to 1.  So it follows ( may be shaky logic here) that the younger hams entering the hobby don't really want to talk to strange people on the radio. 

Looking at repeater usage in my area seems to bear this out.  Some 15 - 20 years ago, 4 or 5 of the wider coverage repeaters generally hosted what I would call a "drive-time party" twice a day.  There would be 5 to 10 folks on each repeater in a round robin talking about anything and everything on a daily basis. Now, for the most part, they sit silent.  Unfortunately, many of those participants have passed or become infirmed.  No younger people have filled in those vacancies.  It seems to be a generational thing.

Oh, and Glenn, don't hold back - tell us what you really think :).

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AA4PB

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RE: Why are digital communications becoming so popular?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2019, 12:17:50 PM »

I am seeing all these different ways to communicate via computer or digitally. What is the big deal? You can do that already with FaceTime or VOIP or even text messaging. I’ve got a dstar radio myself but to me the fun of of doing this is being able to communicate with someone over the air. And of course when the SHTF more than likely all these digital ways will be down. So is the reason to use these digital forms just to have a cleaner signal? Just the other night I talked to a guy in Canada from Texas on 20m. Had a nice conversation and thought it was much cooler communicating over the air than logging into a computer. In some ways the old ways are better. What is your opinion?
It depends on what you mean by communicate digitally. If you are using computer "sound card modes" like PSK31 or FT8 then you are still communicating via radio without any infrastructure. You are still generating RF and receiving it directly on the other end just the same as if you were using SSB. The difference is that you can communicate with much less power with digital modes because of the narrow signal bandwidth and the computer processing techniques. These modes don't require any infrastructure so they will not go down any more than analog voice modes. Every mode (voice, CW, digital) has it's own advantages and disadvantages so everyone can choose what appeals to them at the time.

As for non-ham communications I (at 75) often prefer e-mail or texting over talking on the phone. That way, I am not interrupted in what I am doing at the time - I can check the message when it is more convenient for me. No need to stop the project I am working on in order to answer the phone.
 
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Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA

KC0UKR

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RE: Why are digital communications becoming so popular?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2019, 03:15:39 PM »

Umm........ a lot of younger folks actually seem to feel that there is no difference at all between Texting and using "Mouth Words"!?

Not something that I can comprehend but I have had that argument more than once.
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K4JJL

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RE: Why are digital communications becoming so popular?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2019, 05:37:50 AM »

Umm........ a lot of younger folks actually seem to feel that there is no difference at all between Texting and using "Mouth Words"!?

Not something that I can comprehend but I have had that argument more than once.

I've had younger folks think the same way when they saw digital modes on the computer, but then they saw the Teletype Model 28ASR in the corner of the room.  Fire up that mechanical masterpiece, and their eyes will light up every time (especially with the hood up).
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K0UA

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RE: Why are digital communications becoming so popular?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2019, 06:37:17 PM »

Umm........ a lot of younger folks actually seem to feel that there is no difference at all between Texting and using "Mouth Words"!?

Not something that I can comprehend but I have had that argument more than once.

I've had younger folks think the same way when they saw digital modes on the computer, but then they saw the Teletype Model 28ASR in the corner of the room.  Fire up that mechanical masterpiece, and their eyes will light up every time (especially with the hood up).

I still remember my first model 15 teletype, and really looking at that thing work with the cover off.  My goodness, "grandfather's" generation sure were not lacking for mechanical abilities to design such a complicated "marvel" as this. Yeah it was all oily and noisy, but it was sure fun to watch it work. When you think back to the times when these things were first designed and used, it boggled my mind.
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73  James K0UA

K4JJL

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RE: Why are digital communications becoming so popular?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2019, 06:53:52 AM »

Umm........ a lot of younger folks actually seem to feel that there is no difference at all between Texting and using "Mouth Words"!?

Not something that I can comprehend but I have had that argument more than once.

I've had younger folks think the same way when they saw digital modes on the computer, but then they saw the Teletype Model 28ASR in the corner of the room.  Fire up that mechanical masterpiece, and their eyes will light up every time (especially with the hood up).

I still remember my first model 15 teletype, and really looking at that thing work with the cover off.  My goodness, "grandfather's" generation sure were not lacking for mechanical abilities to design such a complicated "marvel" as this. Yeah it was all oily and noisy, but it was sure fun to watch it work. When you think back to the times when these things were first designed and used, it boggled my mind.

Just the other day when my girlfriend came over to the house, I asked her, "You want to watch TV?"  She immediately said, "Nahh.  I wanna play with your typewriter desk thingy."  She's totally non-technical, but still mesmerized by it.  Her undergrad degree is in creative writing, so she loves to type.
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K0UA

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RE: Why are digital communications becoming so popular?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2019, 12:42:29 PM »

You never know what some non technical person will be fascinated with.  I was at a medical facility not long ago when the girl at the "window" you pay the money to asked about my email address with the amateur radio callsign in it.  I explained it was an amateur radio callsign embedded into the address and her eyes lit up. When I also explained I had HF mobile in the truck parked outside and I worked some European on the way over, she just had one question after another. I think she would have talked about it all day. I have never been bombarded with so many questions about amateur radio. She assumed that was all dead a long time ago and forgotten about. You never know.
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73  James K0UA
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