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Author Topic: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned  (Read 2022 times)

KC9QBY

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HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« on: May 29, 2019, 08:59:26 PM »

Found an approach which I used as a model for approval at new QTH:

http://www.arrl.org/news/arizona-homeowners-association-and-hams-agree-on-outdoor-antenna-guidelines

Organized stakeholder meeting at which I presented. I made diagrams of various antenna options on QTH plans.  XYL and OM agreed approach, and we both attended meeting demonstrating approach abiding HOA/CCR. Shared pictures of various antenna options leading with what we would not do (HF beams on a tower).  Earned approval that largely aligns with options in link above.  No interest in getting HOA busted.  Forthright approach has merit, is HOA compliant, and I can move ahead.  Snatch victory from jaws of compliance. Give it a fair chance.

73,

Chuck
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73,  Chuck  KC9QBY

K1VSK

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 04:43:43 AM »

Good approach which works much better than being disrespectful of the neighbors or the rules to which everyone agreed. This serves as yet another example of why we don't need busybody judgmental people who do NOT live in HOAs telling us how to play radio while living by the rules.
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W8LV

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2019, 03:19:30 PM »

It's good, IF the HOA approves. Of Course.

But it's when they Don't approve, and then you have a problem.

Numerous problems are listed here on this forum with HOAs

The PROBLEMS with HOAs outnumber the approvals.

Remove the HOA power from the equation,
and you eliminate the HOA problem.
Completely.
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K1VSK

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2019, 05:31:12 PM »



The PROBLEMS with HOAs outnumber the approvals.


Here we have yet another wild and unfounded claim destined for the trash heap in which it belongs.

Never has there been any objective assessment quantifying this. A very cursory poll conducted on another ham forum clearly indicated the majority of HOA resident hams have no problems further evidence by the almost complete silence by affected and unhappy HOA residents.

It seems clear only one conclusion is valid - some people seem eager to show how little they know.

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W8LV

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2019, 09:34:25 PM »


Pull the other one.

This Forum wouldn't exist if there weren't problems with the HOAs that far outweigh the non problems.

Nor would there be the numerous proposals to draft and pass legislation to combat them.

Place your head in the sand, or focus on a few individuals who have had  success with the HOAs as mentioned here. Summing them versus the problem ones, and it is INHERENTLY OBVIOUS that by a considerable number, there is only ONE logical conclusion:

That HOAs for MOST Ops are a problem is a FACT.

And for a lot of other people, too. Not just Hams!
As already referenced on previous posts WITH LINKS to the Tales oF Woe.








 
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 09:53:46 PM by W8LV »
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K1VSK

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2019, 05:35:00 AM »




This Forum wouldn't exist if there weren't problems with the HOAs that far outweigh the non problems.





Nonsense. You and a few others who don't live in an HOA perpetuate this hoax.

It's obvious that very few, if any HOA resident hams are here complaining. Rather, It's just you and a few other folks who can't stop interfering in the lives of others. What enjoyment does that bring you?
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N9FB

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2019, 07:09:24 AM »

Found an approach which I used as a model for approval at new QTH:

http://www.arrl.org/news/arizona-homeowners-association-and-hams-agree-on-outdoor-antenna-guidelines

Organized stakeholder meeting at which I presented. I made diagrams of various antenna options on QTH plans.  XYL and OM agreed approach, and we both attended meeting demonstrating approach abiding HOA/CCR. Shared pictures of various antenna options leading with what we would not do (HF beams on a tower).  Earned approval that largely aligns with options in link above.  No interest in getting HOA busted.  Forthright approach has merit, is HOA compliant, and I can move ahead.  Snatch victory from jaws of compliance. Give it a fair chance.

73,

Chuck

congratulations & good work, let's see if HOA's across the nation move in this direction (or hopefully even further in this direction).  what kind of antenna do you plan to put up?

Quote from: http://www.arrl.org/news/arizona-homeowners-association-and-hams-agree-on-outdoor-antenna-guidelines
The types of antennas permitted are modest. The list includes flagpole antennas that do not exceed 16 feet, verticals that do not rise more than 5 feet above the peak of a home, and wire antennas no higher than 5 feet above the roof peak. No traps in wire antennas are allowed and towers of any type remain prohibited.
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"When you throw dirt, you lose ground."

N8AUC

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2019, 07:32:20 AM »

Good approach which works much better than being disrespectful of the neighbors or the rules to which everyone agreed. This serves as yet another example of why we don't need busybody judgmental people who do NOT live in HOAs telling us how to play radio while living by the rules.

I don't live in an HOA controlled area. Thanks to a former fire chief who was a ham, our suburb is pretty ham radio friendly.
And the only way I'd move to an HOA controlled area is if it was an absolute necessity.

With that being said, what the OP demonstrates is that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things, and deal with other people.
I've always found people are much more likely to give you what you want when you treat them with a little dignity and respect.
As my grandmother used to say, "you get a lot further with honey than you do with vinegar".

Congratulations to the OP on his antenna victory!

73 de N8AUC
Eric
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K7JQ

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2019, 08:50:49 AM »

No hard national statistics/evidence here, so please don't jump down my throat. Just relating my own experience having lived in three Phoenix, AZ area CC&R/HOA communities in the last 27 years.

My first home I had built in 1992 was purchased when the housing market was in the toilet, and builders were scrounging for customers. They let me erect a Rohn tower and 3 element tribander attached to the 2 story house, not to exceed 6 feet above the peak of the roof. If business was brisk, I doubt if they would have made that concession. Despite the approval, some of my neighbors weren't too choked up about its appearance.

Next new home built in 1997, the CC&R's stated that no antennas were allowed unless approved by the Architectural Committee. Without asking for approval, I put up a 24 foot multi band vertical with built-in radial spokes. The neighbors didn't care, but I received a letter from the HOA attorney demanding I remove it. Responding to their letter, I referenced another resident that had a pole on his house, similar to the height of my vertical, with one of those diamond-shaped wireless internet receiving antennas on top. I wrote that I would remove my antenna when that antenna was also removed, citing discrimination. I then received a letter allowing me to keep my antenna. Perhaps the other resident had approval, and they had to honor my installation as well.

The next new home built in 2002, the CC&R's had the same "unless approved by the Architectural Committee" language. This time I asked for approval, showing all the plans, for another 24 foot vertical. I received a terse "Cease and Desist" letter letter from the HOA. Still in the same house 17 years later, and enjoying the hobby with attic dipoles and a stealth ground- mounted screwdriver antenna that no one can see.

Let me point out that I went into these communities fully knowing about the antenna restrictions. Why do I keep moving into HOA communities? If you want a new(er) home out here, and don't have the budget for a custom one on your own parcel of land (and even they can have CC&R's), there's basically no other choice. Also, having a tower and beam is not my number one priority for living conditions. And besides antenna restrictions, I've had no other problems with the HOA's or their CC&R's. I enjoy the community I now live in. The HOA boards are only bound to enforce the CC&R's for the benefit of the entire community in regards to the safety, health and welfare, and overall aesthetics. Can't blame them for their decisions.

These are just three different scenarios that I've experienced. Your experiences might vary, and I don't advocate breaking the rules. I took the path of "it's sometimes better to ask for forgiveness than for permission" route. You can choose whatever you want, and see what happens. We're not talking life and death situations here. If you're told no, go to plan B...whatever you choose.

73, Bob K7JQ
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N0YXB

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2019, 11:59:10 AM »

This Forum wouldn't exist if there weren't problems with the HOAs that far outweigh the non problems.

Nor would there be the numerous proposals to draft and pass legislation to combat them.

Indeed. Just Google "HOA stories" and you'll get pages and pages of HOA haters, most of which have nothing to do with amateur radio.  For instance, https://www.familyhandyman.com/diy-advice/homeowner-association-horror-stories/

Anecdotal for certain, but no empirical evidence has been offered up to defend HOAs, so why not?.
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W8LV

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2019, 02:38:56 PM »

K1VSK said: "Nonsense. You and a few others who don't live in an HOA perpetuate this hoax."

Oh My!

Folks EVERYWHERE are having problems with HOA's:

See what happens when just ONE "Gladys Cravitz" gets a little "Authority":

https://youtu.be/t8YveThMHEM

Watch HOAs spy on homeowners with their Super-Spy Selfie Sticks:
https://youtu.be/QzExUc-2vfU

Shouting down the HOA:
https://youtu.be/2YX57GpvUE0

HOA Idiots go to war with Pastor's wife over installing a wheelchair ramp:

https://youtu.be/TBWGYA-Gjrk

Fined by the HOA for parking in front of their own homes:

https://youtu.be/D5uA3DEQM_Y

So much for me and a few others who don't live in an HOA as the perpetrators  of a "Hoax" !

While my offer to go "halfsies" with someone to gift Former Senator Nelson with Gordo's Technician Class Manual still stands, now after being accused of "perpetrating a hoax" and after thinking on it a bit:  I've decided to up the ante to include a copy of the ARRL Antenna Book…

73 and All the Best!
DE W8LV BILL




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K1VSK

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2019, 04:09:10 PM »

This Forum wouldn't exist if there weren't problems with the HOAs that far outweigh the non problems.

Nor would there be the numerous proposals to draft and pass legislation to combat them.

Indeed. Just Google "HOA stories" and you'll get pages and pages of HOA haters, most of which have nothing to do with amateur radio.  For instance, https://www.familyhandyman.com/diy-advice/homeowner-association-horror-stories/

Anecdotal for certain, but no empirical evidence has been offered up to defend HOAs, so why not?.


It’s a few hams (who don’t live in an HOA) pushing this myth that HOAs are a constraint for hams. It’s up to you/us to show it, how big it is and what the value-added is by changing HOA rules. Not list anecdotal and uncorroborated internet stories.

If no one can do that and no one has, you are singing to the choir. Singing louder changes nothing.
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W8LV

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2019, 04:54:44 PM »

No... It's up to you Pal, and you've NOT made a convincing argument in your favour, or done your homework.

I've given PLENTY of examples here, WITH LINKS.

At this Point without a convincing argument, not even premesis and a conclusion:

You're a Poor Judge.

Who is not wearing his (bath) robe.

That's the main "hoax" here:
You are a Judge without clothes.

Certainly, there MUST be an HOA regulation that at least covers that!

And from now on, whenever you address me, I expect as a minimum for you to wear your bath robe.

And there you have it!

I'm still open to going halfsies with you on gifting those two books to Former Senator Nelson...

Hey, Are you in or out?


73 DE W8LV BILL
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 05:18:29 PM by W8LV »
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K1VSK

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2019, 05:14:32 PM »

No... It's up to you Pal, and you've NOT made a convincing argument in your favour, or done your homework.

I've given PLENTY of examples here, WITH LINKS.

At this Point without a convincing argument, not even premesis and a conclusion:

You're a Poor Judge.

Who is not wearing his (bath) robe.

That's the main "hoax" here: You are a Judge without clothes.

Certainly, there MUST be an HOA regulation that at least covers that!

And from now on, whenever you address me,
 I expect as a minimum for you to wear your bath robe.
So there you have it.


73 DE W8LV BILL

Classic!
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W8LV

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RE: HOA Antennas: An approach I used - Approval Earned
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2019, 05:33:23 PM »

....And what about the Halfsies offer on the books for Former Senator Nelson?

73 DE W8LV BILL
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