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Author Topic: No mention in the CCRs at all  (Read 1364 times)

K4EZD

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No mention in the CCRs at all
« on: June 10, 2019, 12:54:56 PM »

This might have been answered before but how should I handle it if my HOA CCRs do not directly mention radio antennas?  This is all that is said in my CCRs:
3.A. Antennas. Satellite TV receiving dishes and over the air TV receiving antennas are permitted under the guidance of Federal legislation (Telecommunications Act of 1996); however certain restrictions apply:
•    The rule applies to video antennas including direct-to-home satellite dishes that are less than one meter (39.37") in diameter, TV antennas, and wireless cable antennas and these items do not require AC approval. Dishes larger than one meter require AC approval.
•    Antennas must be placed in an as visually unobstructive location as possible, while still allowing reception of signals. All exterior wires for antennas or cable TV service must be kept neatly secured in place and hidden from view as much as possible. Wires must not be laid across roof surfaces.

I put a dipole antenna up at first a few years ago and my only response from a neighbor was that he thought it was a “dog run” and he warned me about the possible harm that it might cause my dog.  I then put up a homebrew vertical composed of MFJ tubing and is 24 feet high, and with a tuner and an unun I able to tune to 10-40 meters.  No comments from neighbors at all.  I wonder how far I can go with more elaborate antennas before it raises negative responses from the HOA or neighbors. And can they retroactively say no ham radio antennas at some point? Your thoughts?
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K1VSK

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RE: No mention in the CCRs at all
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2019, 01:17:59 PM »

None of us know definitively how “far you can go”. Asking for opinions here won’t provide you with any clarity. Why not ask them?

Since your rules don’t specifically address ham radio antennas, two scenarios can play out if you erect something  to which someone or the CA objects.  Pick which you would prefer:

1. The CA recognizes there are no relevant rules applicable and decides to write a rule. You are far better off being part of that effort than simply being subject to whatever they write, or

2. The CA simply prohibits all ham antennas not otherwise approved and as yours wasn’t approved, you are out of luck. If the CA decides as such, certainly they won’t ‘grandfather’ pre-existing unapproved antennas.

No doubt someone will suggest you do whatever you want as nothing you described currently exists to prohibit it. I think any reasonably perceptive person can anticipate that scenario (hint - see #2 above)

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K4EZD

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RE: No mention in the CCRs at all
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2019, 01:31:27 PM »

Thanks for your opinion VSK.  No one can respond with certainty about my situation but sometimes the opinions of the many can hint at the certainty of the one.  (Spock might have responded in that manner if he were a ham). 
 ???
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K1VSK

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RE: No mention in the CCRs at all
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2019, 02:00:10 PM »

Many HOAs are like yours in the case of not having rules specific to ham antennas. As to the Star Trek metaphor, you can solicit all the opinions you want but it's only one, the opinion of the CA,  which matters
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K7JQ

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RE: No mention in the CCRs at all
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2019, 02:18:46 PM »

My two cents (having lived in three HOA/CC&R antenna restricted communities in the last 27 years):

VSK is right, can't estimate how far you can go. But IMO, don't poke the bear.

Your rule 3A is just adhering to the federally issued OTARD (Over The Air Receiving Devices) ruling, strictly applying to TV reception. I think that it can be "implied" that all other antennas are prohibited, even though they're not specifically mentioned. Other CC&R rules might state prohibitions of things that could impact the aesthetics, safety, health, and welfare of the community. The HOA might apply one of those to your larger, more visible antennas not related to TV reception.

Not asking approval of the Architectural Committee for your 24 foot vertical makes you subject at any time to them telling you to remove it, despite your neighbor's not caring. You can take your chances, but if the HOA sees it, you're basically at their mercy with how they want to handle it. My advice of not poking the bear means that a 24 foot vertical is plenty visible as is, and any attempt to erect anything larger or taller (tower, mast with yagi or anything on the roof) would certainly not be advisable.

I presently operate totally stealth with a ground-mounted screwdriver and dipoles in the attic...nothing visible to neighbors and the HOA. Been that way for the past 17 years in this house. When buying into an HOA/CC&R community, you have to realize that any attempt to circumvent the rules is at your own risk. OTOH, I've never had any other problems with the CC&R's, and enjoy where I live, despite antenna restrictions. Good luck.

73,  Bob K7JQ
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K4EZD

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RE: No mention in the CCRs at all
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2019, 04:23:28 PM »

Thanks Bob for your response.
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KW4CQ

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RE: No mention in the CCRs at all
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2019, 05:34:57 AM »

If I were you I would let the ACC and your neighbors become accustomed to the presence of your antenna on your property over time.  Give it a year or so.  Don’t rush things and certainly don’t go for a tower and yagi just yet.  Try getting on a friendly basis with one or more of your ACC members.  Invite a couple of them over to your backyard BBQ or to watch the Super Bowl on tv.   It’s always good to have a “friend” in the ACC.  It worked for me.  Good luck.
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W1BR

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RE: No mention in the CCRs at all
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2019, 08:58:30 AM »

I'd check your state laws regarding flag poles, clotheslines, etc.  There are certain things you are allowed to have. While a beam and tower might not fly in a HOA,  simple antennas that are disguised as legitimate, permitted objects might.  You other choice is to get involved and run for a position on the HOA board.
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AC7CW

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RE: No mention in the CCRs at all
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2019, 09:15:19 AM »

I'd check your state laws regarding flag poles, clotheslines, etc.  There are certain things you are allowed to have. While a beam and tower might not fly in a HOA,  simple antennas that are disguised as legitimate, permitted objects might.  You other choice is to get involved and run for a position on the HOA board.

A fellow ham was helping a ham move into a condo. They saw a flagpole so they started working out how to run the coax and lo and behold; the previous owner had been a ham and the coax was already there!
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Novice 1958, 20WPM Extra now... (and get off my lawn)

K7JQ

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RE: No mention in the CCRs at all
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2019, 11:54:08 AM »

All the posts here have valid ideas and points. But be careful...not all HOA's are forgiving or easy-going, even if you make friends with, or get on the HOA board. Without WRITTEN permission from the Architectural Committee, any legitimate complaint from a neighbor means  the HOA must legally enforce the CC&R's. Tread lightly, and be as stealth as possible.

73, Bob K7JQ
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