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Author Topic: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community  (Read 3412 times)

N4UM

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2019, 05:04:39 PM »

I have a 6-BTV with the 80M resonator removed that is  hidden inside a home made fiberglass flagpole.  I routinely run 500 watts in an HOA where the houses are about 20 feet apart with no problems and have been doing so for many years.  The "flagpole" is in the back yard not visible from the street and sits on top of 50 radials, each about 20 feet long. I've worked 280 countries in casual DXing during the past decade.  Here in Florida, flagpoles are permitted under state law provided they meet certain requirements.  I use the DXEngineering tilt mechanism and radial plate.  I'm able to take the antenna down in about 10 seconds - which can come in handy during hurricane season.
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HAMHOCK75

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2019, 05:21:44 PM »

Displaying the flag is protected by Federal law,

Quote
If the flag your HOA is prohibiting is the good old stars and stripes, the HOA is probably out of line. Your right to display the United States flag is protected by federal law. The “Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005” makes it illegal for an HOA to restrict owners from displaying a U.S. flag.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-109publ243/html/PLAW-109publ243.htm
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 05:24:49 PM by HAMHOCK75 »
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K1VSK

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2019, 05:40:24 PM »

Displaying the flag is protected by Federal law,

Quote
If the flag your HOA is prohibiting is the good old stars and stripes, the HOA is probably out of line. Your right to display the United States flag is protected by federal law. The “Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005” makes it illegal for an HOA to restrict owners from displaying a U.S. flag.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-109publ243/html/PLAW-109publ243.htm
That’s erroneous. And misleading which helps no one. The statute specifically states CAs et.al. may regulate these structures as described.
Displaying the flag is a protected right. However, neither Federal or state statute supersedes rules regarding HOW you do so.  There is sufficient case law with which you may be unfamiliar affirming HOA et.al. authorities regarding location, height, appearance, lighting, etc... all of which bear on superficial use of flag poles which may serve a collateral purpose as an antenna.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 05:44:44 PM by K1VSK »
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HAMHOCK75

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2019, 06:04:28 PM »

I think you might be reading a lot more into my post than I intended to say which is only that displaying the flag is protected by Federal law. Nothing was said about flagpoles or antennas.

If you go to the link provided to the law itself, it covers most of what you have said.

Quote
    Nothing in this Act shall be considered to permit any display or use
that is inconsistent with--
            (1) any provision of chapter 1 of title 4, United States
        Code, or any rule or custom pertaining to the proper display or
        use of the flag of the United States (as established pursuant to
        such chapter or any otherwise applicable provision of law); or
            (2) any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time,
        place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States
        necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium
        association, cooperative association, or residential real estate
        management association.
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W8LV

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2019, 08:09:16 PM »

Au Contraire,

Let me say right up front here that I am in no way qualified to interpret Case Law, as I am not an Attorney.

However, I have every right to share my thoughts with WU6R. And I am going to, whether you or PRC like it or not. He may find my "take" just as valuable as yours, or not!

VSK- He's in the home, but he has not committed to PURCHASING it YET, so there is a huge difference in his present situation, and what he might be getting into. And can't easily get out of.

And YOU, VSK, make a good case for why he maybe he might not want to purchase a home in an HOA, or for him to at least think TWICE about it.

VSK said' "There is sufficient case law with which you may be unfamiliar affirming HOA et.al. authorities regarding location, height, appearance, lighting, etc... all of which bear on superficial use of flag poles which may serve a collateral purpose as an antenna."

What's More, you made the above statement enhancing upon your earlier statement: VSK Said: "Most HOAs with which I am familiar make no such distinction regarding rules about permanence of antennas nor do they exempt nighttime from antenna limitations."

So my hat is off to YOU, VSK for pointing out the Tomfoolery of HOAs. Well Done, Sir!

And I am befuddled at your Unkind, Petty, and Juvenile Retorts:

VSK Said: "Such comments are neither helpful or relevant to his question. Why waste your time with nonsense which is unhelpful."

Who put you in charge of deciding what is helpful or relevant? That would be nobody, and Removing the problem: HOAs making decisions on antennas is QUITE Relevant to the Inquiry, indeed!

W6UR can make up his OWN mind as to if what I am saying is relevant to his particular situation, or not. I do want to make him aware of:

"ARRL Petitions FCC to Incorporate Parity Act Provisions into its Amateur Radio Rules" from just six months ago. (12/19/2018 to be exact.)
Link: http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-petitions-fcc-to-incorporate-parity-act-provisions-into-its-amateur-radio-rules

Which is STILL an active proposal with the FCC and listed as PROCEEDING.
FCC Link here:
https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filing/1217451513529

So he may wish to support that when public comments become open. And maybe stay away from HOAs until it becomes Law.

One statement that he may find worrysome as far as getting HOA approval according to the ARRL survey is:

"ARRL noted in its Petition that an increasing number of homes available for purchase today are already subject to restrictive covenants prohibiting outdoor antennas, and that the Community Associations Institute data show that 90% of new housing starts in the US are subject to deed restrictions and other limitation that make installation of outdoor Amateur Radio antennas ineffective or impossible."

VSK said: "You offer no solution; just an alternate reality based on how you think the world should be which helps no one. Kind of like background noise."

No. That's not an alternate reality.
The reality is that 90% "against" figure. Quoted. From an actual source. Based on a Survey.
That makes your retort kind of like Satanic Noise, because he needs ALL of the facts before he makes such a purchase choice. ALL of them. He may want to steer clear for now, until this is all straightened out. Why not let him decide with ALL of the facts what is in his best interest?

As far as PRC's comments go:

What is unclear here is why PRC the thinks a tilt base accessory MATTERS when he has just been TOLD by VSK that " I’m not sure I understand why you think the speed with which it can be removed has any bearing on compliance with your CA’s rules."

So much for Dogs Rumps:
This is MUCH more akin to giving a dog on a leash to a monkey: It doesn't mean that the monkey actually has a pet... Instead, it just means that some Idiot tied a dog to a monkey.



73 DE W8LV BILL


« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 08:25:39 PM by W8LV »
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WA7PRC

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2019, 08:20:04 PM »

Suddenly, the noise level has spiked, with no value.  ::)
Fortunately, some of us have given useful advice to the OP. :)
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K1VSK

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2019, 07:39:25 AM »




VSK- He's in the home, but he has not committed to PURCHASING it YET, so there is a huge difference in his present situation, and what he might be getting into. And can't easily get out of.
Among the delusions and uninformed judgments you routinely post, this one might be a winner. Not that it affects the factual basis of my comments but we haven’t rented since college decades ago. From where you dream up these delusions you consistently display might be something to get checked out. I think there is something wrong. We have a number of physicians and a psychiatrist in the neighborhood who could help.

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N0YXB

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2019, 07:56:37 AM »

I have a 6-BTV with the 80M resonator removed that is  hidden inside a home made fiberglass flagpole.  I routinely run 500 watts in an HOA where the houses are about 20 feet apart with no problems and have been doing so for many years.  The "flagpole" is in the back yard not visible from the street and sits on top of 50 radials, each about 20 feet long. I've worked 280 countries in casual DXing during the past decade.  Here in Florida, flagpoles are permitted under state law provided they meet certain requirements.  I use the DXEngineering tilt mechanism and radial plate.  I'm able to take the antenna down in about 10 seconds - which can come in handy during hurricane season.

Nice solution. You're happy and apparently so are your HOA neighbors. What more could anyone want?
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K7JQ

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2019, 08:00:13 AM »

The OP is in an HOA community, and is aware of CC&R restrictions. Renting or owning doesn't matter. He's asking advice from those in the same situation, and others, as to what antenna he can possibly use despite antenna restrictions (there are alternatives). A discussion of HOA/CC&R pros or cons is not relevant to this thread, and is off topic. Other threads out there are available for such comments.

73, Bob K7JQ
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HAMHOCK75

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2019, 03:31:01 PM »

Quote from: K1VSK
Among the delusions and uninformed judgments you routinely post, this one might be a winner. Not that it affects the factual basis of my comments but we haven’t rented since college decades ago. From where you dream up these delusions you consistently display might be something to get checked out. I think there is something wrong. We have a number of physicians and a psychiatrist in the neighborhood who could help.

That is pretty harsh considering that you misunderstood what W8LV is saying. He is addressing you but explaining the OP's situation not yours.

Quote from: W8LV
VSK- He's in the home, but he has not committed to PURCHASING it YET, so there is a huge difference in his present situation, and what he might be getting into. And can't easily get out of.

which is the OP's stated situation,

Quote from: WU6R
We are considering buying this home, but we would not be doing so until next summer.  Has anyone come across the issue of a temp install of a vertical that can be easily installed and partially removed fairly fast to comply with HOA? 
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K1VSK

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2019, 03:54:25 PM »



That is pretty harsh considering that you misunderstood what W8LV is saying. He is addressing you but explaining the OP's situation not yours.


Wasn’t sure of his intent given his propensity for lack of clarity so  I may have mistaken his oddly valid statement as the usual absurd claims. Regardless, as PRC points out, his response was inappropriate and irrelevant to the subject matter.
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HAMHOCK75

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2019, 06:47:56 PM »

I don't know either of you but there is a difference between your responses. One attacks issues as they see them, one engages in personal attack. You might want to PM PRC about that because he suggested in another thread that another person who did got himself banned.
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W8LV

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2019, 11:39:17 PM »

All of these ignore that if he chooses to buy property in an HOT,
no matter how well intentioned the antenna design, the HOA can SHUT HIM DOWN. And that's the problem.
And he will have little recourse then. Even if he has agreeable neighbours now, people to come and go all of the time, (and change their minds) buying and selling houses. There is even a good chance that a RENTER in same HOA could ask for enforcement "relief". This makes my post ENTIRELY RELEVANT to the discussion, and I don't care who agrees with that or not.

VSKs posts quote contracts that point to this reality SPECIFICALLY: HOAs are NOT friendly to hams on a general basis. I point to the ARRL Survey: 90% AGAINST. That's not some number that I fished out of the air.
Therefore, in this RARE instance, I am AGREEING with VSK. And yet even then,
He attacks me! Shall I lose sleep over this? I think not. Same for the Rear Guard action of PRC.
Truth and Intellect always carry the Day.

Personal attacks are ignored by me, and It's in the BEST INTEREST of the renter to have ALL THE FACTS before he signs that dotted line. I can't do much about a personal attack that is made.upon me by someone who hasn't even taken time to read the post, and thinks that I am talking about HIS living situation.
Logic Trumps going to The Teacher when a Bully lurks, now that we are all wearing our Big Boy Clothes. Well, most of as are, anyway. Indeed, when someone mentions as a retort that you need psychological care instead of making an effective counterpoint, that very persons stability comes into question.

Meanwhile, back at Radio Ranch, the ARRL Proposal to Part 97 is ACTIVE.
When the time comes for Public Comments, hopefully people will participate in the process.
After it is enacted, hams EXACTLY in the dilemma that THIS Ham faces will have relief and can persue Ham radio on their HOT properties, and the Gladys Carvitz's of the World can worry about more "important" things, like if someone has left their garage door up. I wish him All the Best.


73 DE W8LV BILL


« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 11:51:53 PM by W8LV »
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NK5G

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2019, 03:34:05 PM »

Amazing how these threads can deteriorate.
 
I am a long time owner of the BTV series antennas. Very simple. Paint the antenna with non-metallic grey paint. use plastic fasteners to hold a modest size flag and that's all you need. The BTV now resembles a flagpole. Keep in mind that you will need a light on it at night, which is also no big deal.

Do it in good taste and if you can get the approval in writing for a flagpole from the HOA ahead of time then even better.
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WA7PRC

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2019, 04:01:12 PM »

I don't know either of you but there is a difference between your responses. One attacks issues as they see them, one engages in personal attack. You might want to PM PRC about that because he suggested in another thread that another person who did got himself banned.
You're entitled to your unsupported opinion.

"PRC" aka Bryan WA7PRC
All of these ignore that if he chooses to buy property in an HOT,
no matter how well intentioned the antenna design, the HOA can SHUT HIM DOWN.
The OP asked for help with an antenna. Some of use supplied that help. You repeatedly took the conversation in a different direction that is of no immediate help.

Meanwhile, back at Radio Ranch, the ARRL Proposal to Part 97 is ACTIVE.
When the time comes for Public Comments, hopefully people will participate in the process.
After it is enacted, hams EXACTLY in the dilemma that THIS Ham faces will have relief and can persue Ham radio on their HOT properties, and the Gladys Carvitz's of the World can worry about more "important" things, like if someone has left their garage door up. I wish him All the Best.
Gladys "Carvitz" (Kravitz) was a fictional character from five decades ago. Life has changed a LOT.

Amazing how these threads can deteriorate.
 
I am a long time owner of the BTV series antennas. Very simple. Paint the antenna with non-metallic grey paint. use plastic fasteners to hold a modest size flag and that's all you need. The BTV now resembles a flagpole. Keep in mind that you will need a light on it at night, which is also no big deal.

Do it in good taste and if you can get the approval in writing for a flagpole from the HOA ahead of time then even better.
Good advice. :)
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