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Author Topic: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community  (Read 3415 times)

HAMHOCK75

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2019, 04:54:02 PM »

Quote from: WA7PRC
The OP asked for help with an antenna. Some of use supplied that help. You repeatedly took the conversation in a different direction that is of no immediate help.

No one can know what is in the mind of the OP. I have participated in enough threads to realize that sometimes the OP will come back and say the different direction answer was just what they wanted. As an OP I tend to welcome help regardless of direction as long it is obviously well intended.
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WA7PRC

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2019, 06:26:37 PM »

Quote from: WA7PRC
The OP asked for help with an antenna. Some of us supplied that help. You repeatedly took the conversation in a different direction that is of no immediate help.

No one can know what is in the mind of the OP. I have participated in enough threads to realize that sometimes the OP will come back and say the different direction answer was just what they wanted. As an OP I tend to welcome help regardless of direction as long it is obviously well intended.
The meaning & intent of the OP is obvious to anyone with grade-school reading comprehension. To other(s), it's oblivious. Some, such as one person here, troll the antenna restriction threads with the same post... no matter the OP.
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HAMHOCK75

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2019, 06:45:31 PM »

Quote from: WA7PRC
The meaning & intent of the OP is obvious to anyone with grade-school reading comprehension.

May I make a simple request of you then? You have responded to my threads in the past. Please refrain from doing that if you wish to discourage others from expressing themselves.
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WA7PRC

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2019, 06:50:23 PM »

Please refrain from doing that if you wish to discourage others from expressing themselves.
Are you SURE of what you stated?  ::)
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HAMHOCK75

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2019, 07:09:45 PM »

Quote from: WA7PRC
Are you SURE of what you stated?

Quote from: WA7PRC
The meaning & intent ... is obvious to anyone with grade-school reading comprehension.
;)
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WA7PRC

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2019, 07:20:41 PM »

Please refrain from doing that if you wish to discourage others from expressing themselves.
Apparently, you don't understand what you wrote. You want me to cease doing [item] in order to DISCOURAGE others from expressing themselves. That's bassackwards.
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HAMHOCK75

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2019, 07:25:08 PM »

As I heard a lawyer say in a courtroom. Let the jury decide that.
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W8LV

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2019, 07:29:33 PM »

PRC said: "Some, such as one person here, troll the antenna restriction threads with the same post... no matter the OP."

Yes....That IS True.... But this time VSK is actually CORRECT and has made a valid point, indeed:
 
HOAs have lots of arbitrary, Petty rules that don't allow for any kind of antenna whatsoever, Stealth, temporary, at night, etc., making it VERY difficult for the majority of Unfortunate Ops who are snared in that kind of evil  web to operate from their Residences! And he's just quoting those kind of HOA Ordinances..
No harm in that!

And with the ARRL backing him up with the 90% figure on level of HOA current housing infiltration who outright ban antennas, HOAs really ARE a Cancerous Locust spreading upon The Land.... No Doubt, that's probably why former Senator Nelson hasn't got his ticket yet. And that is just a shame! Surely, you agree with me.

You've got to AT LEAST give him that., PRC.  SURE, he's insulted me on plenty of times, but you know what they say.... Sometimes, you've got to whack a guy right between the eyes with a two by four just to get his attention... And he has indeed opened MY eyes, if not yours or others. Yet, anyway.

Just saying!

73 DE W8LV BILL
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 07:52:05 PM by W8LV »
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WU6R

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2019, 05:23:49 AM »


I am a long time owner of the BTV series antennas. Very simple. Paint the antenna with non-metallic grey paint. use plastic fasteners to hold a modest size flag and that's all you need. The BTV now resembles a flagpole. Keep in mind that you will need a light on it at night, which is also no big deal.

Do it in good taste and if you can get the approval in writing for a flagpole from the HOA ahead of time then even better.

That makes a lot of sense.  Thank you for you recommendation.

73,

Mark / WU6R
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Mark

Mark Wheeler
WU6R
mark3575@icloud.com

K7JQ

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2019, 11:58:38 AM »

Don't the Hustler verticals have traps and capacity hat spokes sticking out? I'd think they would look like a weird flagpole, plus hanging a flag at the top would make it top heavy, especially in a strong wind. I like N4UM's idea of enclosing it in a PVC pipe for stealth and strength, if you can get rid of the capacity hat.
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HAMHOCK75

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2019, 04:00:26 PM »

When I lived in an HOA I found that there is one way to operate with Hustler's legally. I bought a full set of the Hustler mobile resonators and had a mobile mount on my car. I would occasionally operate mobile. Most residents just assumed I was a CB'er. The enclosed garage opened into a laundry room. My rig was actually in the laundry room with a coax that ran out to the car in the driveway or garage. The antenna was never attached to any HOA property. Swapping resonators was a bit cumbersome.

I eventually acquired a Yaesu ATAS100 screwdriver mobile antenna which is controlled from the Yaesu FT100D with signals going out the center conductor of the coax. That solved the band change problem.

Next was acquired an old 5BTV from another ham. I did just suggested above. I removed both the capacity hats and placed it inside a dark gray PVC pipe. I think the diameter was 2". Put a pulley at the top to raise a flag. The base was hidden by two large Agapanthus shrubs.

If I were buying a new xBTV for a purpose like this, I might suggest the 6BTV instead of the 5. The 6BTV design is the only one in the BTV series that does not require any capacity hats.

P.S. I was a board director and mentioned at a board meeting that I was planning a pole but no one objected. I now live in a single family home so no more issues like that. I would like to add that small complexes are not a good idea. They have a chronic shortage of people who are willing to serve on the Board. I ended up occupying every office on the board for my entire stay. It is not a very pleasant job. People feel free to call at all hours to complain. Instead of having an association free you of much of the work, I ended up on the board, responsible for everyone's problems. The Treasurer's job is the most pleasant. Just keep the books balanced and write checks. One time the Bank of America made a bank mistake giving Association money. When I showed them no such deposit was ever made, they said keep the money.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 04:15:46 PM by HAMHOCK75 »
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WA7PRC

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2019, 04:08:17 PM »

Don't the Hustler verticals have traps and capacity hat spokes sticking out? I'd think they would look like a weird flagpole, plus hanging a flag at the top would make it top heavy, especially in a strong wind. I like N4UM's idea of enclosing it in a PVC pipe for stealth and strength, if you can get rid of the capacity hat.
Good catch, Bob. I had to look it up. The Hustler New-Tronics 4BTV & 5BTV have capacity hat "spikes"but, the manual for the 6BTV (link) shows none. That makes it easier to conceal. That leaves ground plane radials. Elevated feed is preferred. From the manual:
Quote
Elevated mounts provide height which, in turn, will generally provide better
reception and transmission.
Radials are necessary on elevated installations. The ideal droop angle is 45
degrees. A droop angle of 10 degrees to 60 degrees is acceptable. Plan the height
of the mount to allow the best droop angle.
Perhaps adding foliage around the base would effect that. Ivy grows FAST and tends to "crawl" on wires/ropes. :)

I see some people are STILL off-message...
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HAMHOCK75

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2019, 04:31:24 PM »

My current 5BTV installation did not originally have plants nearby. Currently some are deciduous and drop their leaves in the fall. With a vector impedance analyzer scanning the antenna all the way to 180 MHz, I noticed two interesting effects. The frequencies above 6M are affected by the foliage when leaves return in the spring. It adds capacitance much like a capacitance hat but it does not affect the antenna within its normal operating range. It causes a shift in the harmonic resonances.

The other effect is in the winter when the ground is wet, the real part of the resistance drops with 16 radials. Because 1/4 wavelength antennas have a nominal 37 ohm radiation resistance at resonance as summer approaches and the ground begins to dry, the ground resistance increases adding to the 37 ohm radiation resistance resulting in a better match to 50 ohms but actually less radiated power.

One other neat effect easily visible in a full 10-80M scan is that you can see the radiation resistance going down as you go lower in frequency. On 40M the BTV is 17' tall which is only 1/8 wavelength resulting in the lowest radiation resistance. One the other hand, 80M which should have the lowest radiation resistance has greather resistance then all other bands ( more than 50 ohms ) because of the losses in the loading coil.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 04:45:09 PM by HAMHOCK75 »
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K7JQ

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2019, 04:44:43 PM »


I see some people are STILL off-message...

Bryan: I just ignore all that side stuff gobbly-gook (should be in other threads), and try to help with the OP's original question/situation.

In a "tiny back yard", sufficient radial placement and closeness of the vertical to his and other houses are an issue. But, you never know how effective it will be until you try ;). My ground-mounted screwdriver works out well, but it is in an unusually optimum location/placement that's not common in most HOA communities. Just lucked out when I chose the lot.

73,  Bob K7JQ
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HAMHOCK75

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RE: Considering Hustler 5-BTV Vertical for HOA Community
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2019, 05:01:30 PM »

One other test I did with the 5BTV in its current location was to test without radials and with different number of radials. No radials gave the best SWR and the least radiated power.

Pretty obvious why with a vector measurement. The more radials the more the antenna approaches its theoretical radiation resistance of 37 ohms which is about a 1.4 VSWR. The radiation resistance keeps going down with frequency however so 37 ohms is the maximum radiation resistance. The fewer radials, the more ground loss adding to the radiation resistance which gets the total resistance up closer to 50 ohms and a perfect match. Unfortunately, that perfect match just warms the Earth.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 05:10:17 PM by HAMHOCK75 »
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