Print

[WB9WIA]

I have been in and out of Ham Radio since the mid 70's. Just getting set up again after selling my truck with a 706gMKIIG three years ago. Finding that the screen for the 706 is fading after sitting around, I decided to buy a IC7000, nice...

I installed the 7000 with separation kit and the AH4 antenna tuner with antenna mounts on a modified headache rack, and found my Transel Technologies (Ham Stick) HF ants. Thought I had more antennas and when going through them found one broken and another that needs some minor repair.

So now I find that the antennas that I have are no longer made and possibly there are others that might be better.

It was not an inconvenience to switch antennas and I thought the single antenna for the band tuned properly was the most efficient. Learning maybe not... I had used a "Bug Catcher" style antenna back in the mid to late 80's and wasn't that impressed. No hard core data to share, sorry.

I have done some research reading reviews and am intrigued by the 392M by TRX Communications. I read the reviews here and everyone gave it rave reviews.

I have also used the Hustler system with all the loading coils MANY years ago and thought about maybe going back to that system. I'm thinking the 392M might be more efficient and possibly less expensive after buying all the coils???

SO what have you found works well for you/what would you buy today for a multi band HF mobile antenna???
Height is not a problem as all my antennas must be removed before entering my garage anyway.
Mount strength is not an issue as I have a headache rack to mount.
Also can run the AH4 tuner if/when needed.

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond.

Steve
WB9WIA/5

[K0UA]

So far the best I have used is my current Little Tarheel2 on my truck. It far outpaces the hamstick I had on the truck previously. It is a small antenna as screwdriver antennas go.  I did replace the 32 inch whip with a Larson 48 inch kulrod whip for more efficiency and also to make the antenna more flexible. I would not want a longer antenna than this, but it works so much better and is all band 3.5 to 54 Mhz. I use the Tune Matic Lite controller and like it also.

[WB9WIA]

Thanks for the quick reply James.

Do you need to buy the tunematic to run the ant, or is it an ant tuner like the AH4?

I saw the Tarheels and it looks like I would be gaining the ease of changing bands from the inside of the truck vs moving a connection on the coil. Since they are both basically loading coils with a whip ant on top I don't think I would be gaining any efficiency. Are these assumptions correct?

Where did you mount the ant on your truck? How tall is the ant from the ground?

I'm not real concerned with the ant height, but two trucks ago I was dinging the bottoms of over passes....

Thanks James

Steve

[ZENKI]

Dont use magnet mounts  and make the antenna as long as possible. Just forget about  160 and 80 meter mobile. Stick to the money bands like 40,30 and 20 meters which will  deliver the most contacts both local and DX.

This is my strategy using a monoband 20 meter coil loaded antenna  and another dual band coil for 40 and 30 meters which I can change quickly. I can even change the tap on the 40/30 to any of the other bands.  Basically a Bug Catcher style design.

Hams roughly know when they are in the mobile  and  this pattern rarely changes. Hams also generally know when the bands are open so there is no need for changing  bands every 10 seconds. Thats one of the reasons I have abandoned big heavy screwdrivers. I go to work early in the morning and 40/30 meters is  all that I need most of the time.  When the propagation season swings towards early morning 20 meter DX paths I will select that antenna. 20 Meters is also good when leaving work so thats the coil I use when leaving work. Its a pretty consistent routine. I also have a  small Active antenna on my car  that is a modified version of the MiniWhip that allows me to tune the whole HF spectrum and then I can decide what antenna choice I make.

Dont over  complicate your  ham life with expensive antennas whose advantages look sensible but are rarely needed(Big Fat heavy Screwdrivers) There is no denying the excellent performance and flexibility but  I dont mind  the inconveniences of changing Coils or pulling into a service stations to buy a coffee and change coils. How much performance you will require is  what  should really drive your decisions. On bands like 20 meters  a ham stick style of antenna is good  and successful enough  and its an antenna that wont make you feel like you using  5 watts QRP and a miracle whip! The performance is good enough.  40 meters is different kettle of fish and requires  a large wide bandwidth to cover  how you operate and for this reason I prefer a monoband coil or antenna.

I would stay away from "miracle" base loaded antennas, "mil antennas" and other mobile antennas with UNUN's and other expensive voodoo. Use the ham stick as a your baseline, then something like a Outbacker then finally the high performance screwdriver type antennas. If ultimate DX performance is not your thing and just working local short skip then anything would do especially on 40 meters. If this was my choice then  I would use a decent Commercial Design like the professional Codan 9350 Antenna which is widely used by the UN, red Cross and other professional HF radio users. Its automatically tuned based loaded antenna that  works from 1 to 30 mhz and has a active Pre-amp for tuning around the bands.  But its a base loaded antenna  thats frequency agile and its base loaded which delivers a  3 to 6db penalty even against a Hamstick! Great antenna but very rare  in the USA.

My work has an expensive EMC test range  with a massive ground plane and professional EMC measuring equipment. I have spent a lot of time measuring various antennas to know that proper installation, vehicle size is more important than worrying about ultimate antenna performance differences. The only bands that require the best engineering practice and antenna designs is  for frequencies below  5 mhz and above  18 mhz. The average ham mobile antenna between the frequencies of 5 and 18 mhz has enough performance to make  using these sub optimal antennas and OK experience. But if  you want a potent signal from the mobile I am not saying pursuing these goals are a waste of time, it is warranted but not needed most of the time for the limited time spent in the vehicle. If I was a truck driver spending that much time in my vehicle I would go through this engineering  effort.

Experiment and dont be afraid to try  various antennas thats the  fun part learning about what works. Just  reading about what works for others is not a good way  of learning about  whats best for you. "if you dont measure and test you will never know"!

[WB9WIA]

Thanks for the great information Zenki,

I have been doing the same as you, mono banders, good fixed ant mounting, ect. The mono band ants I do have seem to work well, but without something to try to compare, I have no reference of what "well" is.

My experimentation in the 80's with a bug catcher ant didn't work well for me, but I wasn't working all the HF bands then and something new may have come out since I last looked. I don't care to use a big commercial base loaded ant that has penalties of poor gain. Like you I don't mind stopping to change ants and I have a tuner that works very well. So I tune the ant for the middle of the band and then use the tuner for that point.

I was thinking a center loaded coil might be better since I really don't think I have a ground plane on the lower freqs. Might try to find a local ham that has one to compare.

Really didn't want to replace the missing ants and then find I should have bought something else, the reason for the question about what others have found to be their best mobile HF antenna.

Thank you again for the thoughtful through response.

Steve

[K0UA]

Thanks for the quick reply James.

Do you need to buy the tunematic to run the ant, or is it an ant tuner like the AH4?

I saw the Tarheels and it looks like I would be gaining the ease of changing bands from the inside of the truck vs moving a connection on the coil. Since they are both basically loading coils with a whip ant on top I don't think I would be gaining any efficiency. Are these assumptions correct?

Where did you mount the ant on your truck? How tall is the ant from the ground?

I'm not real concerned with the ant height, but two trucks ago I was dinging the bottoms of over passes....

Thanks James

Steve

The little tarheel II  comes with an up down rocker switch, that while I used it for a time and it works well enough it got old for me pretty quick as you have to hold down the switch and listen on the frequency for a "peak" of noise and then bump it up or down from there for best SWR. Also of importance you need a method of slowing down the motor as the bump bump bump method is annoying. (overshoot is the problem) The tunematic lite solves both of these problems. It has 20 memories to get you in the ballpark for each band, and on the higher bands in the ballpark is good enough and will often not require any up/down further adjustment. but on the lower bands 40 and 80 you will still have toadjust even after choosing a memory as the bandwidth is very low especially on 80 meters.  The tunematic light has a circuit in the up/down adjustment that for 4 seconds of push time the motor runs at about 1/4 speed then it takes off at full speed after the 4 seconds of push.This allows a more granular adjustment within that 4 second window. on 30 and 20 meters, you still may need to adjust a bit depending on which end of the band you are on,  ALSO, and this is often overlooked is the area you are operating in.  The soil and road conditions change as you move and sometime and SWR "tweak" is warranted. On the bands above 20 meters, usually just the memory setting will get you where you want to be without any "tweaking".

One other cool thing about the little TarheelII is the ability to add additional wire for much greater efficiency on the lower bands 20 thru 80.  I use a 20 foot fiberglass telescoping pole I keep under the back seat to support a 24 foot wire strung across the bed and up.  This give a tremendous difference in signal both way when parked and placing this pole in a stake bed pocket diagonal across the bed and extended up into the air. I measure it about 18dB on 80 meters.  Remember 80 meter efficiency is very low with any mobile antenna. It will even allow operation on 160 meters, but still the efficiency would be very low unless you threw a much longer wire in a tree.  As long as the wire is still capacitive, the inductance in the Tarheel will tune it. On 20 meters I use a 15.5 foot wire and the Tarheel will tune that as a near full 1/4 wave vertical on 20 for several dB of gain over the stock whip.

The antenna is mounted in the drivers side bed corner so the base of the antenna is nearly 4 foot off of the ground, making the height near 9 feet tall or over depending on which band you are tuned to.  Of course 6 meters is the shortest and 80 meters the tallest . I use a fold over on the top whip when going into the garage. You MUST remember to stop an fold it down (takes about 2 seconds) and unfold it when exiting the garage.

The tunematic lite is a simple controller, it just has memories that you set for each band and for the lower bands for portions of bands.  These get you close and will run the antenna coils motor to those presets while you drive. Going from 6 meters to 80 meters can take some time. The controller does this automatically while you keep your eyes on the road instead of you pushing a button and listening for a "peak" of band noise with the manual rocker switch.  I did replace the stock whip of 32 inches with a Larson Kulrod whip from an NMO-150 of 48 inches.  This give a few dB of gain on 80 and 40 , but the main reason is the Larson is a tapered whip and very flexible, so when you hit the drive thru canopy at Wendy's (they are lower than other fast food joints) it will bend and is less strain on the antenna.  As for efficiency I can tell you this, the Little TarheelII is much more efficient than the mini hamstick I was using. the hamstick would get hot on 20 meters (the only one I tried) on SSB after a QSO, and the Tarheel does not.  Also reports are much better on the Tarheel. That and the ability to be frequency agile on the move from 3.5 to 54Mhz sold me on the Little Tarheel II. And added plus the ability to operate "portable" with my $20 Shakespeare crappie pole and tune wires with the Tarheel itself without any other antenna tuner to increase efficiency was a bonus for me.

[WB9WIA]

James,

Thank you very much for replying.

I read your thesis on mobile antennas, bonding, mounting, ect. I thought I knew about antennas until I read your paper.... I noticed that many people refer to it in discussions. Wish you lived closer, would like to talk to you in person. I do fly in to the college in your town once in awhile. Maybe we can meet then.

Thanks for the explanation on the Tarheel. I saw the pick of yours mounted on the back corner of your truck and noted your comment about the base and later on the fact that the sheetmetal adjacent to the point of loading the antenna is not a ground plane, only the sheetmetal under it. This was new to me. I have mounted my antennas on a headache rack on my truck since '86 and always thought that the center was the best place because the top of the cab would act as a ground plane as well as the bed and hood.

SO as you may have read, I am using "ham sticks" mounted on the headache rack of the truck with an AH4 antenna tuner. I found I am missing a few from the time I removed the radios and ants from my last truck. I am wanting to replace the missing ones, I found that I have the 6, 15, 40, 75 mtr ants, and don't want the expense of replacing them and finding that I needed to go another direction.

I think I remember from WAY back that the center loading coils give a lower angle of radiation and are not as reliant on a ground plane, HOWEVER, I also think I remember that the coil just makes up for the missing physical length making it resonant but isn't efficient. Most of the center loaded ants I remember have very little above the coil, so possibly poor efficiency. So with that in mind do you think I would be better off with the center loaded ant, a base loaded long whip type antenna, or the long ham stick type antennas? Possibly band dependent? I don't mind switching antennas for efficiency and cost savings. I think the Tarheel is a great ant from what I have been reading but if I am going with that type of antenna I think I would like the 392M since it is less expensive and requires less maintenance. I am also assuming that the two are the same electrically, just a manual vs auto adjusting?

Thanks,
Steve

[K0UA]

Steve, from what all the "real experts" say (I am not one). the center loaded is the way to go for maximum efficiency.  I have no experience with the manually tuned antennas like the 392M, but I will say, I would not care for one.

 I like checking out multiple bands on a journey, and on the go, and a screwdriver and controller lets you do just that. Do they cost some dough?  yep, antenna and controller adds up to about 3/4 the cost of my inexpensive hf radio the Ft891.

 Like I said earlier I lost patience with the manual control switch for the screwdriver, and soon after installation and use, I was looking for a controller.

 Some have solved what I have called the bump bump overshoot problem by having a second switch that will throw in a string of diodes to drop the voltage going to the motor to slow it down for fine tuning for minimum SWR.  I thought about do this, but you still have to hold the main rocker up/down switch in manually until you hear the peak when changing bands. So I sprung for the $139 for the controller.  Worth every penny.

 But any screwdriver under manual control or automatic control  in my opinion beats the heck out of manually changing out antennas or wander leads and stinger length and going back and forth to the interior of the car to read SWR and back to make adjustments. I have more money than patience. YMMV

[WB9WIA]

Thank you James.

Steve

[K0UA]

Thank you James.

Steve

Steve if you ever do want to speak with me, just shoot me an email with your phone number and I would be happy to chat with you. With our mobile plans nowadays it doesn't cost anything to talk (or we are all paying for it anyway whether we use it or not) 

Hope to hear you mobile soon.

[WB9WIA]

Thanks James,

Just sent you my number...

Steve

[KF4ZGZ]

Nope you don't need the tune-o-matic stuff. It's nice, but not needed.
When I ran a screwdriver I had the antenna mounted where I could see it in the passenger side mirror.
Just used a switch to move the coil up and down manually.
Colored marks put me in the band ..... then touched up for swr.

[KU3X]

From what I saw, picture only, no way would I get the 392M by TRX Communications.
I’ve done a lot of field strength testing of numerous mobile antennas and you can’t go wrong with the Hustler setup.
They are very efficient and reasonably priced. Want multi band mobile, just add more coils.
For high performance, for 10 through 40 meters, get the high power Hustler coils. On 80 meters, get the low power version, it’s more efficient than their high power one. I won’t go into details here.
There’s a big fascination with the screw driver type mobile antennas. There is a lot to be said to being able to work 10 to 80 meters and keeping the SWR low at any frequency without leaving the seat of you car. The problem is, if you want high performance, you’re going to put out big bucks. You want high performance, this is the site to go to.

https://www.hiqantennas.com/

Better save your lunch money, but you get what you pay for. The Yaesu screwdriver antenna is probably one of the worst performing antennas. Before all of the Yaesu mobile antenna owners jump in and tell us how much DX you gave  worked with their antenna, I did not say you won’t work stations. It’s just that it’s a very inefficient design.

If you do go with a Hustler, the following web page will describe how to modify a Hustler 80 meter resonant to be used on 20 meters to really increase the efficiency. Scroll down to the bottom of the web page.

http://www.ku3x.net/hf-mobile

Remember, just because your mobile antenna shows a perfect 1 to 1 SWR, which is misleading to some people, a 50 ohm dummy load also shows 1 to 1 SWR……..”How well does it radiate?”

Barry, KU3X

[WB9WIA]

Thanks Matt,

Don't think I will be purchasing a motorized base loaded ant. Don't want the cost or maintain. I am not driving a big vehicle where it would be inconvenient to pull over and change antennas or make an adjustment.

If for some reason the coil or other aspect of the Tarheel vs the 392m or like is better, then I will decide how I tune it. But for now, I'm not interested in the Tarheel due to the cost and maintenance.

Thanks,
Steve

[WB9WIA]

Barry,

Thank you very much for addressing the Hustler ants.

I had some LONG ago and really didn't compare them to anything else, so no data to help me make a decision.

SO one of the things I was thinking from long ago was the amount of antenna after the loading coil was very important to efficiency of the ant. As I remember the Hustler antenna can be purchased with several "poles" that break over at different points for you mounting situation, the coil screws into the top of that, and then a pretty sort "stinger" at the top. The other factor, if I remember correctly, was that the center loaded ants needed less of a ground plane and had a lower angle of radiation. So I'm sure there is a balance in there and compromise for many different factors.

So for 6-80 mtrs, would you think the Hustler system would be best for mounting on top of a headache rack pretty much in the center of the truck?

If you have time, please educate me on the pros and cons of the base loaded long whip type ant vs. the center loaded ant.

ALSO I have been using a Ham Stick design antenna and looking a the antenna they appear to be mostly helically wound with a coupe coils wound at different points. I would almost say that they are center loaded on the lower frequencies as most of the coil is in the center of the fiberglass whip part then more open wound to the metal "stinger." What do you think about the ham sticks and how do the compare to center loaded ants such as the Hustler system?

Thank you very much,
Steve