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Author Topic: T7B06  (Read 1040 times)

TRUTHSEER

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T7B06
« on: June 24, 2019, 09:21:28 AM »

Having a green light to ask questions pertaining to exam questions, here's one.

The answer is: "Make sure that your station is functioning properly and that it does not cause interference to your own radio or television when it is tuned to the same channel" as your neighbor's.

On the answer's face is found logical.  Yet, would a newbie know what actions to take solely on this answer (and yes there are clubs for these issues).  Filtering is something that requires a much greater knowledge than to assume the transmitter equipment is the culprit.  Doesnt modern transceivers already have filters integrated into its circuitry to counter harmonics?

My point here is, hasnt interference issues been solved and propagated, excuse the pun, in modern equipment over the decades into modernity, and not an issue any longer?  Plus, HOA's are prevalent with restrictive, oppressive rules of "hideous" external radio tower antennas and mega power transmitters to eliminate potential Hammers.
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SOFAR

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2019, 10:03:43 AM »

Having a green light to ask questions pertaining to exam questions, here's one.

The answer is: "Make sure that your station is functioning properly and that it does not cause interference to your own radio or television when it is tuned to the same channel" as your neighbor's.

On the answer's face is found logical.  Yet, would a newbie know what actions to take solely on this answer (and yes there are clubs for these issues).  Filtering is something that requires a much greater knowledge than to assume the transmitter equipment is the culprit.  Doesnt modern transceivers already have filters integrated into its circuitry to counter harmonics?

My point here is, hasnt interference issues been solved and propagated, excuse the pun, in modern equipment over the decades into modernity, and not an issue any longer?  Plus, HOA's are prevalent with restrictive, oppressive rules of "hideous" external radio tower antennas and mega power transmitters to eliminate potential Hammers.



Do you have any interest in radio?

You will learn about radio, and the fact that Amateurs have license to build their own transceivers. If you study, and take the exams.

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W9IQ

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2019, 10:58:02 AM »

There is no doubt that amateur transmitters have become cleaner from a harmonics perspective - partly due to technology and partly due to regulations. Even the change to digital TV frequencies has helped a bit.

But consumer electronics equipment has not gotten much better. Consider that in the US, the FCC Part 15 regulations simply deal with RFI egress for certain classes of electronic equipment. There is absolutely no regulatory scope for RFI subseptibility requirements or testing.


So when you take a WiFi hotspot and run it through FCC compliance testing, it will pass the FCC tests for emissions. But now put it in the field and hook up several meters of wire and the device can become unstable in the near presence of a 100 watt ham transmitter. This can be due simply to common mode current overload and nothing to do with harmonics or spurs.

The FCC regulations state that the device must "accept" the interference from a licensed ham station, for example, as long as that station is operating per Part 97. That is not a comfortable answer to give your neighbor when they complain you are interfering with their device, but it is the law. Usually we try to help the neighbor with mitigation steps but that isn't always well received or even effective.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

TRUTHSEER

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2019, 11:38:32 AM »

There is no doubt that amateur transmitters have become cleaner from a harmonics perspective, but consumer electronics equipment has not gotten much better.

- Glenn W9IQ

Interesting input.

So, what's the difference between "amateur transmitters" and "consumer electronics"?  What are ICom, Yaesu, Alinco, for example?
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TRUTHSEER

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2019, 11:40:39 AM »

Do you have any interest in radio?

Gimme a break.
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W9IQ

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2019, 11:52:18 AM »

I use the term "consumer electronics" to refer to non-ham radio related electronics in this context.

Icom, Yaesu, Alinco, etc are manufacturers of ham radio (and in some cases consumer) related electronics.

- Glenn W9IQ
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 11:54:32 AM by W9IQ »
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

SOFAR

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2019, 01:58:28 PM »

Do you have any interest in radio?

Gimme a break.

It's a serious question. This is an Amateur radio forum.

I don't see the point in analyzing the exams. Exams are merely an entry point. In any field.

If the process is beneath you (as an almighty electronics expert), move on to another hobby.
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K7MEM

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2019, 02:10:49 PM »

Having a green light to ask questions pertaining to exam questions, here's one.

The answer is: "Make sure that your station is functioning properly and that it does not cause interference to your own radio or television when it is tuned to the same channel" as your neighbor's.

On the answer's face is found logical.  Yet, would a newbie know what actions to take solely on this answer (and yes there are clubs for these issues).  Filtering is something that requires a much greater knowledge than to assume the transmitter equipment is the culprit.  Doesnt modern transceivers already have filters integrated into its circuitry to counter harmonics?

My point here is, hasnt interference issues been solved and propagated, excuse the pun, in modern equipment over the decades into modernity, and not an issue any longer?  Plus, HOA's are prevalent with restrictive, oppressive rules of "hideous" external radio tower antennas and mega power transmitters to eliminate potential Hammers.

Sounds like you are going to be a lot of fun on the forums.

Yes, the fine details of filtering takes a bit of knowledge, but why do you assume that this is a filter issue? If the ham makes sure he is not interfering with his own electronic equipment, he/she may then have a better idea as to, why his neighbor is being interfered with. The ham could then contact other neighbors to see if the interference is wide spread. This could localize the issue. It is also quite common for neighbors to complain about interference, just because they know you are a ham. To them, Ham operators are, by default, the perpetrators. Who else could possibly cause problems?

I had a neighbor that complained that I was interfering with her garage door opener. It didn't matter that I was never on the air when the garage door would open and close. But, every time it happened, there was an airplane traveling overhead. So I changed the code on her garage door opener, and the problem was solved.

So, to me, the question is really to get the new ham on the path of searching out the answer. A little logic and common sense should help him/her figure out the rest.

Modern transceivers do have a lot of internal filtering. But that doesn't mean that they can never break. If you transmit into a antenna that has a big mismatch, damage to the output filter cores could happen. This can then reduce the amount of filtering and allow internal mixing products to propagate to the antenna. They have made transceivers better, over the years, but they haven't made them user proof.

I have been a ham for over 50 years, and interference issues have not gone away. But it has changed direction. Instead of the ham operators equipment interfering with a neighbors equipment, it has switched to the neighbors equipment interfering with the ham operators equipment. Reading some of the posts in the RFI/EMI forum, may help.

Finally, please don't try to drag HOAs into a discussion in any forum, other than the Antenna Restrictions forum. And, no, I do not live in a community governed by a HOA. Therefore, I have no opinion about HOAs other than, HOAs do not cause or abate interference issues.

Amateur Radio Operators, hams, are not expected to know everything about electronics. This is a hobby that has many avenues of interest. If you don't care for one aspect of the hobby, say Morse Code Communication (CW), then you are more than welcome to look into other areas, like say Digital Modes. With Digital Modes, like FT8, you can connect your computer to your transceiver and have the computer make all your contacts. You barely have to lift a finger.
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TRUTHSEER

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2019, 08:08:51 AM »

It's a serious question. This is an Amateur radio forum.

If its a serious question then why harp on something you think I said.

I don't see the point in analyzing the exams. Exams are merely an entry point. In any field.

Because you fail to see my point, then asking a question, and my answer, would clarify your confusion.  My pursuit of understanding ham radio culture doesnt fall under your scrutiny.

If the process is beneath you (as an almighty electronics expert), move on to another hobby.

You seem to have an issue with confidence in people that over shadows your lack of understanding.
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SOFAR

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2019, 08:18:32 AM »

It's a serious question. This is an Amateur radio forum.

If its a serious question then why harp on something you think I said.

I don't see the point in analyzing the exams. Exams are merely an entry point. In any field.

Because you fail to see my point, then asking a question, and my answer, would clarify your confusion.  My pursuit of understanding ham radio culture doesnt fall under your scrutiny.

If the process is beneath you (as an almighty electronics expert), move on to another hobby.

You seem to have an issue with confidence in people that over shadows your lack of understanding.

No, you seem to be missing the point.

There is no culture, it's a hobby that attracts individuals with an interest in radio.

Maybe you should look into professional broadcast radio.
Seems you have no interest in Amateur radio.
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TRUTHSEER

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2019, 08:36:28 AM »

Sounds like you are going to be a lot of fun on the forums.

I hope so.  I want the opportunity to learn the culture of the ham community, and importantly, I understand my history of cannon ball jumping into the fray, and I understand why some will have objections of how I do that.  That's me.

The bottom line here is that there will be those who see themselves as guardians and want to police interactions based upon their sanctimonious notions of what's kosher.

I question the licensing process because of this, but I desire the understanding of regular folk who ride the wave instead of trying to stop it.  For me to get there I understand there are going to be issues of my intent and ignore the character.

When I read some of the questions in the exam pool, coupled with watching YouTube to see some just memorize 35 answers and dont care of the process, I find that as degrading the intent of the license.  That is NOT me.

I hope this helps.
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TRUTHSEER

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2019, 08:39:09 AM »


No, you seem to be missing the point.

There is no culture, it's a hobby that attracts individuals with an interest in radio.

Maybe you should look into professional broadcast radio.
Seems you have no interest in Amateur radio.

You really need to address your lack of confidence.
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W1VT

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2019, 08:57:37 AM »

There are cheap import transceivers that have less than a 50% pass rate according to testing done at major amateur conventions.  Unlike other services, such as CB and Land Mobile, the FCC does not require that amateur radio equipment pass an approved certification test.  Instead, the requirement is that the radio you use meets the Part 97 spectral purity standards.  This could be done with a kilobuck spectrum analyzer and readily available resistive power attenuators.  Or, you could buy a reputable brand whose test results are published in QST.  The testing that shows the cheap imports fail also shows, as the same time, that reputable brands hardly ever fail.  Using the same test equipment and procedures.
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W9IQ

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2019, 09:26:59 AM »

I think Zack's point is that amateur radio transmitters do not require an FCC certification. Most commercially made amateur radio linear amplifiers and receivers require certification.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

TRUTHSEER

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RE: T7B06
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2019, 09:58:04 AM »

I think Zack's point is that amateur radio transmitters do not require an FCC certification. Most commercially made amateur radio linear amplifiers and receivers require certification.

- Glenn W9IQ

Given the list of 3 manufacturers I posted earlier, is there a source dedicated to highlighting these "certified" units?
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