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Author Topic: Found my dream home...  (Read 2662 times)

W8LV

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2019, 12:09:48 AM »

K1VSK Said:

"As a practical matter, this makes any CC&R the HOA as the regulatory and enforcement arm modifies as moot."


 All the more reason why we need legislative change to take the HOA Man OUT of the decision making process, as has already been done with satellite dishes, flag poles, solar panels, and clotheslines.

K1VSK said: "The moral of this story is HOAs have flexibility if they chose to exercise it."

Moral to this story? No. That's NOT the Moral to this story. And so here's a SECOND HELPING of Humble Pie:


Source: Amateur Radio Parity Act: Setting the Record Straight

"... 90 percent of new housing starts in the United States are subject to private land-use restrictions. Virtually all of these have provisions that either prohibit outdoor Amateur Radio antennas outright, or else subject amateurs to the unlimited discretion of Homeowners’ Associations (HOAs) which can, and almost always do, reject requests for outdoor antennas….."

This shows just how "flexible" HOA's are all right! Pretty much NOT AT ALL, MOST OF THE TIME.

The ARRL is working on the problem of HOAs:
"Ad Hoc Legislative Advocacy Committee to Meet with Lawmakers"
Here's the Link!

http://www.arrl.org/news/ad-hoc-legislative-advocacy-committee-to-meet-with-lawmakers

SUPPORT THE ARRL.
JOIN OR RENEW TODAY!

73 DE W8LV BILL

« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 12:14:28 AM by W8LV »
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W9FIB

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2019, 02:55:12 AM »

How about telling something new in this thread. Otherwise just start at the beginning. I think everything has been covered multiple times by the same few people.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

N8AUC

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Re: RE: Found my dream home...
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2019, 12:44:56 PM »

If Mom's happy  :D, then everyone is happy!

And conversely, "if momma ain't happy, nobody's gonna be happy!"
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KR6NU

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2019, 06:31:25 AM »

Too many responders here are equating CC&Rs with HOA rules - they are NOT the same thing.  Your original posting doesn't make clear whether you're talking about a non-HOA property with CC&Rs in the deed (very common) or an HOA property.  There's a huge difference.

PRB-1 merely requires local GOVERNMENTS to make "reasonable accomodation" for antenna structures in it's zoning/permitting procedures.  It does not have any applicability to HOAs, which are private contractual entities.
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K7JQ

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2019, 07:02:55 AM »

Too many responders here are equating CC&Rs with HOA rules - they are NOT the same thing.  Your original posting doesn't make clear whether you're talking about a non-HOA property with CC&Rs in the deed (very common) or an HOA property.  There's a huge difference.

PRB-1 merely requires local GOVERNMENTS to make "reasonable accomodation" for antenna structures in it's zoning/permitting procedures.  It does not have any applicability to HOAs, which are private contractual entities.

Your comments are true, but have been covered and revealed many times in these threads and topics. If anyone hasn't realized this, they haven't been reading the "Antenna Restrictions" forum very long.
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K7JQ

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2019, 08:28:58 AM »

Too many responders here are equating CC&Rs with HOA rules - they are NOT the same thing.  Your original posting doesn't make clear whether you're talking about a non-HOA property with CC&Rs in the deed (very common) or an HOA property.  There's a huge difference.

PRB-1 merely requires local GOVERNMENTS to make "reasonable accomodation" for antenna structures in it's zoning/permitting procedures.  It does not have any applicability to HOAs, which are private contractual entities.

Your comments are true, but have been covered and revealed many times in these threads and topics. If anyone hasn't realized this, they haven't been reading the "Antenna Restrictions" forum very long.

Actually, in re-reading KR6NU's first sentence, there are no "rules" made by the HOA. The CC&R's ARE the rules, and the HOA is there to monitor and enforce the CC&R's. Depending on the CC&R agreement/contract, rules can be changed, modified, added, or deleted only by a % majority vote by the community resident members. Or if there is provision for an Architectural Committee, they may permit an individual's request for approval of a project, somewhat overriding a CC&R. However, the Committee's decision may include a provision that if enough residents complain of a violation of the CC&R (such as an eyesore antenna), the decision can be rescinded.
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K1VSK

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2019, 02:31:04 PM »

Too many responders here are equating CC&Rs with HOA rules - they are NOT the same thing.  Your original posting doesn't make clear whether you're talking about a non-HOA property with CC&Rs in the deed (very common) or an HOA property.  There's a huge difference.

PRB-1 merely requires local GOVERNMENTS to make "reasonable accomodation" for antenna structures in it's zoning/permitting procedures.  It does not have any applicability to HOAs, which are private contractual entities.

Your comments are true, but have been covered and revealed many times in these threads and topics. If anyone hasn't realized this, they haven't been reading the "Antenna Restrictions" forum very long.

Actually, in re-reading KR6NU's first sentence, there are no "rules" made by the HOA. The CC&R's ARE the rules, and the HOA is there to monitor and enforce the CC&R's. Depending on the CC&R agreement/contract, rules can be changed, modified, added, or deleted only by a % majority vote by the community resident members. Or if there is provision for an Architectural Committee, they may permit an individual's request for approval of a project, somewhat overriding a CC&R. However, the Committee's decision may include a provision that if enough residents complain of a violation of the CC&R (such as an eyesore antenna), the decision can be rescinded.

Actually,  HOAs can and do add, change or modify rules irrespective of any CC&Rs, the most recent example in my HOA being a modification which allows CERT member hams to have antennas of a prescribed type, size and location where the CC&R states no antennas.

HOAs definitely can and do write rules as well as grant modification and waivers from those rules. Such misunderstandings seem to be prevalent on this forum.

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N4UE

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2019, 03:47:39 PM »

As I've relayed in this topic SEVERAL times...….
I built my dream home, dream shop/shack in a neighborhood with NO restrictions, NO HOA, Nothing. It was in the country (5 acres) underground electric, septic system and well, which is common here.

Although I had permission from the County Building Inspector for my 2 towers. my neighbors got together and sued me. They were 'offended' by the 'look'.
I won the lawsuit, but due to the emotional stress induced onto my ex-wife, we split up and we sold the house, (at a huge loss, 2007) forcing me (and her) to lose our lives savings.

"Anyone can sue ANYONE for ANYTHING".

Just be aware. And be careful!

ron
N4UE
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If you're not the lead sled dog, the view never changes......

AC7CW

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2019, 05:14:13 PM »

As I've relayed in this topic SEVERAL times...….
I built my dream home, dream shop/shack in a neighborhood with NO restrictions, NO HOA, Nothing. It was in the country (5 acres) underground electric, septic system and well, which is common here.

Although I had permission from the County Building Inspector for my 2 towers. my neighbors got together and sued me. They were 'offended' by the 'look'.
I won the lawsuit, but due to the emotional stress induced onto my ex-wife, we split up and we sold the house, (at a huge loss, 2007) forcing me (and her) to lose our lives savings.

"Anyone can sue ANYONE for ANYTHING".

Just be aware. And be careful!

ron
N4UE

There are two states where loser pays all costs in a lawsuit: Texas and Alaska. I lived in Texas, there just weren't any frivolous lawsuits.
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Novice 1958, 20WPM Extra now... (and get off my lawn)

K7JQ

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2019, 07:39:18 AM »


Actually,  HOAs can and do add, change or modify rules irrespective of any CC&Rs, the most recent example in my HOA being a modification which allows CERT member hams to have antennas of a prescribed type, size and location where the CC&R states no antennas.

HOAs definitely can and do write rules as well as grant modification and waivers from those rules. Such misunderstandings seem to be prevalent on this forum.

Apparently, this is not a blanket statement that applies to all HOA's/CC&R's. In my community's Declaration of CC&R's, its provisions can only be amended (I assume "amended" means changed, modified, added, or deleted) by a 90% approval vote of its resident members in the first 20 years from the date of Declaration, and a 75% approval vote after 20 years. In all practically, in a community of 1,000+ homes, this is virtually an impossibility. In my 17+ years of living here, I've never received a notice of a proposed CC&R amendment for a vote. To me, this means that the HOA board by itself cannot "amend" the CC&R's per se. Dissolution of the HOA, and thereby enforcement of the CC&R's, also needs a 90% approval vote by the resident members. But *I believe* the CC&R's would still be in effect, and a neighbor can sue you for a violation.

Now, if the HOA Board has a Design Review/Architectural Committee, they can grant a project request approval/denial to a resident on an individual basis within the general guidelines of the CC&R's. In a previous community I lived in with antenna restrictions, I was given approval for a multi-band vertical, with the stipulation that if a neighbor complained, I would then have to remove it. So the CC&R was still in effect, pending neighbors' approval (which I obtained beforehand). Seems counter-intuitive, but I rode with it.

Let me also say that I'm not an attorney...there's tons of mumbo-jumbo "legalize" in the Declaration...so my interpretations above might be off base ;D. If anyone can correct me, I'm all ears. I'm just saying that not all Declarations of CC&R's across the Country have the same stipulations written in them. Read yours carefully, and seek legal advice upon any confusion.

73,   Bob K7JQ
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K1VSK

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2019, 09:12:25 AM »




Now, if the HOA Board has a Design Review/Architectural Committee, they can grant a project request approval/denial to a resident on an individual basis within the general guidelines of the CC&R's. In a previous community I lived in with antenna restrictions, I was given approval for a multi-band vertical, with the stipulation that if a neighbor complained, I would then have to remove it. So the CC&R was still in effect, pending neighbors' approval (which I obtained beforehand). Seems counter-intuitive, but I rode with it.
.

73,   Bob K7JQ

HOAs generally have an Architectural Committee or similar entity as it is essential to the exercise of their authority without which the rules could be moot. Regardless, generalities are always wrong sometimes.
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N9AOP

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2019, 08:12:47 PM »

No one has suggested as of yet the idea of getting 50% or so of the HOA residents licensed.  This ought to work just as well as the ARRL attempt.  There are lots of dream weavers out there.
Art
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K1VSK

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2019, 07:39:30 AM »

No one has suggested as of yet the idea of getting 50% or so of the HOA residents licensed.  This ought to work just as well as the ARRL attempt.  There are lots of dream weavers out there.
Art
What makes you think so? This has never been anything more than a thinly veiled HOA bashing discussion. Absurd ideas abound.
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K7JQ

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2019, 07:59:15 AM »




Now, if the HOA Board has a Design Review/Architectural Committee, they can grant a project request approval/denial to a resident on an individual basis within the general guidelines of the CC&R's. In a previous community I lived in with antenna restrictions, I was given approval for a multi-band vertical, with the stipulation that if a neighbor complained, I would then have to remove it. So the CC&R was still in effect, pending neighbors' approval (which I obtained beforehand). Seems counter-intuitive, but I rode with it.
.

73,   Bob K7JQ

HOAs generally have an Architectural Committee or similar entity as it is essential to the exercise of their authority without which the rules could be moot. Regardless, generalities are always wrong sometimes.

Yes..."generally", but not all. My first AZ house didn't have an Architectural Committee on the HOA board. If a CC&R states..."No antennas allowed, unless approved by the Architectural Committee", at least you have a shot at getting some approval. But if a community's Declaration of CC&R's has no provision for such a committee, the rules are set in stone with no flexibility. The HOA would then be obligated to follow a "No antennas" regulation to the letter...no authority to consider a variance. In other words, don't even ask.
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K1VSK

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Re: Found my dream home...
« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2019, 09:15:36 AM »




Now, if the HOA Board has a Design Review/Architectural Committee, they can grant a project request approval/denial to a resident on an individual basis within the general guidelines of the CC&R's. In a previous community I lived in with antenna restrictions, I was given approval for a multi-band vertical, with the stipulation that if a neighbor complained, I would then have to remove it. So the CC&R was still in effect, pending neighbors' approval (which I obtained beforehand). Seems counter-intuitive, but I rode with it.
.

73,   Bob K7JQ

HOAs generally have an Architectural Committee or similar entity as it is essential to the exercise of their authority without which the rules could be moot. Regardless, generalities are always wrong sometimes.

Yes..."generally", but not all. My first AZ house didn't have an Architectural Committee on the HOA board. If a CC&R states..."No antennas allowed, unless approved by the Architectural Committee", at least you have a shot at getting some approval. But if a community's Declaration of CC&R's has no provision for such a committee, the rules are set in stone with no flexibility. The HOA would then be obligated to follow a "No antennas" regulation to the letter...no authority to consider a variance. In other words, don't even ask.
That’s interesting.
It seems the fundamental problem here is your covenants expressly recognize ( “ approved by the Architectural Committee”) and place authority to grant waivers in an AC which doesn’t exist.

That’s a ‘process’ problem which no legislation can fix unless your Board acts to rectify the contradiction. And if or when your Board does establish an AC, it appears the discretion exists within the covenant that antennas could be approved.

If it was me, I’d point out that flaw to your Board with an expectation a Committee could be formed ad-hoc to implement that covenant provision. Although, as I re-read your post, it appears you no longer reside there (“ my first AZ house didn’t have”...) as in past tense.

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