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Author Topic: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!  (Read 3093 times)

W8LV

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HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« on: November 24, 2019, 05:22:04 PM »

ARRL Legislative Advocacy Committee Drafting New Bill Addressing Antenna Restrictions

The ARRL Board of Directors Legislative Advocacy Committee is in the process of drafting a new bill to address the issue of private land-use restrictions on amateur radio antennas. The proposed legislation would be the successor to the Amateur Radio Parity Act. The Legislative Advocacy Committee, chaired by Pacific Division Director Jim Tiemstra, K6JAT, will report to the Board soon, once plans are fleshed out. Tiemstra told the ARRL Executive Committee (EC) on October 12 in Aurora, Colorado, that Advocacy Committee members have traveled to Washington to meet on multiple occasions with members of Congress and their staffs to inform them of the committee's plans.

Source: http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter?issue=2019-11-21


73 DE W8LV BILL
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 05:28:53 PM by W8LV »
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K1VSK

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2019, 06:31:39 PM »

Making the same mistake over and over....

The only crazier thing is ranting about it.
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N2RRA

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2019, 07:27:56 PM »

Making the same mistake over and over....

The only crazier thing is ranting about it.

Have too do some research on past and current legislations along with those those in the ARRL that’s been working on this as I’m a little out of the loop, but if those in the ARRL are making the same mistakes over and over again then the swamp needs to be drained and more competent people put in place.
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KB8VUL

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2019, 11:11:57 PM »

Got to love the HOA argument. 
I know there are the one's that will argue that you should avoid them... I did that...
And ham radio had little or nothing to do with avoiding them.. I wrench on cars, weld, and play my music too loud (at least some think so)
But, if you are dealing with an HOA and hoping that the ARRL has a fix for it. I wouldn't hold my breath.

More and more agencies are steering away from the support of ham radio for disaster communications.
Less and less folks are becoming hams.

And here's the REAL truth.
Do YOU want to be THAT GUY.
What's that mean, well you live in a well groomed, beautiful housing development, and some guy down the road starts parking old junk cars in his yard.  Sure they are old American muscle, but they sit there for years, while he saves up to 'restore it'.  And maybe he gets the cash together, and he's now got the motor running, with no exhaust.  He's driving it up and down the street tuning it, missing the hood and a fender.  But it's got tags, it's legal and the cops can say NOTHING.  That's THAT GUY.

Here's the thing,,, your 80 foot crank up tower is just as God awful ugly as that car is to probably more people.  But the ARRL saved the day and that's how you got it stood up in your otherwise beautiful housing development. 

Please understand that I enjoy making people mad.
I believe that it's good to be mad once in a while, so I am just making sure that the folks around me get to experience it once in a while.
I even get told that I am an A-hole once in a while.  To which I thank them for the recognition of my efforts.
But Even I wouldn't go move into a housing development surrounding a country club and golf course, and park my beater cars in the yard and stand on the front porch to take a pee. 

The league is WRONG on trying to strong arm the HOA's into being forced to allow you to stick a big ugly tower in your yard, period.
Our situations change.  Our interests change.  When I bought the house I live in, I was active in radio, so I made sure there were no restrictions on towers.  I was not however into shooting firearms.  So the fact that I had a neighbor directly behind me wasn't a concern.  My interests changed and I can't shoot off my back porch.... so I am looking for a place that I can, that I can also have a tower and antenna's.
A man's home is his castle.  And HOA's suck and I wouldn't live under the rule of one for any amount of money.  But, they do have their positives, and getting the ARRL to circumvent their authority so YOU can put up a tower.  Sorry but that's not right. 
So do the flag pole hidden antenna and deal with it.  Or move somewhere else.  But don't hold out hope for the league to get some legislation pushed through so you have the legal right to piss off everyone on your street.

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W9FIB

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2019, 02:53:19 AM »

Please understand that I enjoy making people mad.

That is the problem. You offer nothing new other than added anger. Makes anyone up on Capitol Hill cringe to support anything. Makes a lot on EHam also uncomfortable. And drives away support, not add to it.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

NN4RH

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2019, 05:27:34 AM »

Whatever they come up with this time, is bound to be better than that abomination they tried to get through the last Congress, that would have done more harm than good.

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K6PH

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2019, 05:42:24 AM »

While I certainly understand that the tries at the Parity Act were a failure, what exactly did the ARRL do that was wrong and/or unhelpful?  This is not meant to be argumentative, I'm just unclear.
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ND6M

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2019, 05:50:54 AM »

...edit...

That is the problem. You offer nothing new other than added anger. Makes anyone up on Capitol Hill cringe to support anything. Makes a lot on EHam also uncomfortable. And drives away support, not add to it.
Perhaps YOU are the actual problem. You assume that the majority of all Amateurs support this issue.

Even the arrl's own survey of members (20% of all Amateurs) disclosed that only 10% responded that HOA's/CC & R's were a priority to them.

Lets see,.... what is 10% of 20%.......... in other words, only 2% of all Amateurs ....................talk about a political minority.
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K1VSK

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2019, 06:07:54 AM »

While I certainly understand that the tries at the Parity Act were a failure, what exactly did the ARRL do that was wrong and/or unhelpful?  This is not meant to be argumentative, I'm just unclear.

Some of the issues were:
1. The previous iterations all required HOAs to effectively write prescriptive rules - if an HOA was against antennas, this wouldn’t change that but rather, would codify their onerous rules and eliminate any flexibility many of us currently enjoy.
2. Hams with hidden antennas would have been required to notify their HOA thereby admitting a violation subjecting themselves to the whim of the HOA.
3. HOAs which previously granted accommodations would lose that flexibility because of the reason in #1 above.

And more fundamentally, the ARRL has not once, ever established quantitatively the magnitude of the issue - how many hams are affected negatively. Their own polls suggest most hams living in HOAs are content with their situation. Consequently, until shown otherwise, this is a solution in search of a problem where the cure may be far worse than the disease.

The Congressional reps with whom I contacted all agreed the bill was fundamentally flawed given the absence of any evidence this is either needed or wanted.

It seems the only people pushing this don’t live in HOAs but like to interfere in the lives of others who do.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 06:25:47 AM by K1VSK »
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K7JQ

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2019, 06:31:03 AM »



The league is WRONG on trying to strong arm the HOA's into being forced to allow you to stick a big ugly tower in your yard, period.


You've got it wrong. None of the League's proposed legislations suggested that HOA's allow a "big ugly tower" in a postage-stamped size lot. They've always proposed "reasonable accommodation" for ham antennas, such as inconspicuous wires or slender verticals. Unfortunately, that term has been disputed as too vague and up to individual interpretation. No harm in trying, but all attempts have failed so far.
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KR6NU

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2019, 07:54:46 AM »

I have difficulty understanding the view that it's somehow the ARRL's fault that federal legislation to preempt or limit HOA authority has not been enacted. 

It's a steep hill to climb.  There's an argument (with some merit) to be made that the federal government has no business interfering in private (emphasize "private") land use contracts.  It's not really the province of the federal government.

On a practical level, let's be honest:  the Amateur Radio Service enjoys a pretty low priority both at the FCC and in Congress.  It's viewed there as just another special interest group.  The EMCOMM card has been played to death and really doesn't carry much weight.  ARRL (and amateurs in general) have very limited influence.
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K7JQ

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2019, 08:24:08 AM »


And more fundamentally, the ARRL has not once, ever established quantitatively the magnitude of the issue - how many hams are affected negatively. Their own polls suggest most hams living in HOAs are content with their situation. Consequently, until shown otherwise, this is a solution in search of a problem where the cure may be far worse than the disease.


Respectfully, your opinion. In my opinion, the "magnitude" doesn't matter. The fact is, there IS an "issue" for the (I'm sure) many thousands of hams living in HOA/CC&R communities that won't budge on restrictions, regardless of the "polls". I think rather than the word "content", you can substitute the word "resigned". If we can get legislation (for whatever reason) to allow some sort of compromise on outdoor antennas that won't affect the living conditions of the neighbors or the community as a whole, what's the harm? If not, we're just back to the original rules, and continue to be "resigned" (or "content", as you say) to the situation. At present, I'm resigned to my CC&R restrictions, and operate with stealth antennas. But I wouldn't say I'm exactly "content". I knew and accepted the restrictions when I moved in, so I'm not angry or bittter about it.

I agree that if you want substantial antennas, and can't get approval BEFORE you buy, then go somewhere else. But if you don't do your due diligence and read/understand the CC&R's, and then bitch and moan after the fact, it's your own fault. Don't bet or rely on proposed legislation to bail you out. Based on past failures, it probably ain't gonna happen ::).

73, and Happy Holidays to all,

Bob, K7JQ
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K1VSK

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2019, 09:39:09 AM »

Quote from: K7JQ link=topic=127574.msg1155927#msg1155927



Respectfully, your opinion. In my opinion, the "magnitude" doesn't matter.
[/quote

Granted, it's my opinion as it is yours but that IS the problem - no one knows if or how big this 'problem' may be.

It seems logical that before anyone invests lots of effort, time and money into fixing a problem, they might first try to get some clarity as to it's magnitude. It was abundantly clkear to me after speaking with numerous Congressional reps that they don't introduce or support legislation with NO CLEAR REASON.

The only evidence is limited to one unscientific poll done by the League in QST summarized in the October 2019 edition in which only 10% of respondents indicated they have community restrictions against ANY antenna.

Interestingly, 83% indicated they don't need, want or can't afford a tower.


So where is the evidence anyone is "resigned" to antenna limitations? Why aren't all these HOA resident hams clamoring for relief? Why is it we hear only from the same few characters who don't even live in an HOA?
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NN4RH

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2019, 10:15:33 AM »

OK. We've been having the identical circular arguments about this since 2014. I proposed that we either just copy and paste the previous threads; or just wait until the ARRL actually publishes their new approach and argue about that instead.
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K1VSK

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2019, 11:05:45 AM »

OK. We've been having the identical circular arguments about this since 2014. I proposed that we either just copy and paste the previous threads; or just wait until the ARRL actually publishes their new approach and argue about that instead.
We are treated to lots of uncontrollable issues debated for decades now such as no-code, license structure, what is the best microphone, crimping vs. not crimping, etc...

Why should something like this be any different? Arguably, we are told this one supposedly affects “thousands” of hams.
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