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Author Topic: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!  (Read 3094 times)

KB8VUL

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #180 on: January 13, 2020, 07:40:09 PM »



 It is the CC&R's which must be overturned in law. Only then can a potential resident have a chance of negotiating for a variance.

 Neither you or I have any 'right' to interfere in how others perceive their view. Or perceive your antenna.

You seem insistent that you have some right to be free to do whatever you prefer and that what others prefer is irrelevant. Your world is a place I don't want to live in.

First, thank you for making my point a bit clearer.  Many people that move into restricted neighborhoods do so in part for the appearance of the community as a whole.  And while ham operators may well look in awe of your aluminum farm, others may find it repugnant.  And it's their 'right' to be repulsed.  Because, it the real world, your opinion isn't the only one that matters, and if more than one other person disagrees you ARE in the minority. 

Secondly, and I will approach this as non-politically as I possibly can. 
One side of the political coin, it would seem, is the here are the laws and regulations.  You have to follow all the laws and regulations.  You may disagree with them, and you live in a country that you have the power to change them.  But until they are changed, they are the laws of the land.  More over, they also believe that a contract, is a mans word.  You give that word, sign on the dotted line and agree to ALL parts of said contract.  Because an HOA agreement and a CC&R are legally binding contracts.  They are civil in nature, but are enforcable by the laws of the state and country pertaining to contracts.  These folks believe that if you sign, you agree and are not going to come back later and argue that your "rights" have somehow been violated by entering into said contract and look for remedy.
The other side see's things a bit different.  They are about them.  They feel that they should not necessarily stand behind their word they gave to abide by their previous agreements.  And they further will roll over others rights as long as it makes them feel better about themselves and their perception of what the world should be.

I have said before on here.... I am pro second amendment.  I am a gun owner... and I shoot for recreation and fun.  It's a hobby.  Just like ham radio.  Which I of course am also a participant in. 
I got into a interesting conversation with a fellow gun guy a while back and he couldn't understand the reasoning of the mass hysteria of the anti-gun folks, and how they could possibly hold such a strong belief.  I replyed it's simple... you know the few fruit loops that claim that "they will pry my guns from my cold dead hands"?  You know the type... well their are anti-gun folks that are the very same way.  And their are documented cases of a law abiding citizen gun owner saving a anti-gun person and that person turning around and suing the gun owner for putting them in danger by having a gun in their presents. And a few have won.  Those are the people that will smile every time they look at their Mom's Demand Action bumper sticker on their BMW and smile every day until the guns are gone and Bernie Sanders, or someone like him gains full control and the government kicks them out of their house and takes their BMW away and leaves them with a Government Motors spec vehicle to drive.  Only at that point will they understand why we HAD the RIGHT to keep and bear arms.  And not one minute before. 
The point is this.  There are people that will argue against ANYTHING they don't agree with and celebrate the change they had some part in making until it blows up in their face.
With the gun thing, it will be pretty much as I laid out, its happened many times before, and in recent history. 
With radio and antenna's to will go a bit different, the sign carrying protesters will finally strike a nerve and the entirety or the ham bands will be gone, making the whole antenna argument mute.  All the licenses will be canceled and the frequencies will be turned over to FEMA specifically for disaster relief use only, or sold off to the highest bidder at auction.  And if I am around to see it, I will get on here and thanks the whiners for destroying the hobby, cuss and swear a bit and then go take my towers down and find more renters for the big tower.  But at no time will I argue that I have the RIGHT to talk on 3898 or 14.250 and sit there keyed up in protest.  I may well however move to Texas, because by then the liberals wil be tossed out on their ear and they will have seceded from the union and started asking political affiliation at the border.
 
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K7JQ

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #181 on: January 13, 2020, 07:55:52 PM »

Don,
I never said "right". I was quoting some else, so I put it in quotations ;). It is not a "right" to have an antenna, especially when you're under CC&R's. As far as you think there is no problem, well, we agree to disagree on that one, despite no hard evidence. There's also is no hard evidence that there isn't a problem. I've lived in three such communities...that's my hard evidence. Many HOA ham friends here in the Phoenix area that will back me up on that one. They're all "antenna challenged", and if they're operating, it's strictly under the radar.

KB8VUL,
No need to come unglued...bad for your blood pressure ;D. But you're correct...as long as there are CC&R antenna restrictions with no Federal legislation to counteract them, then go somewhere else if you want visible antennas. Unfortunate for hams, but true. There's always choices and/or compromise. Per the Rolling Stones..."You can't always get what you want" ;). Gun laws and political commentary? No comment. We're talking about antenna restrictions and the law. You're straying off topic with your rants. May I suggest we keep it focused?

73,  Bob K7JQ 
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KB8VUL

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #182 on: January 13, 2020, 08:41:26 PM »

Bob,
I will try to keep it on point.  Just seeing a huge parallel in the current climate and as stated, that is actually a right and not something that legally as of today to be limited.  Although it's very much so limited in many places, just like antenna's.

I guess my point is how do you sit and argue that you should somehow have a 'right' when you agreed to not have that 'privilege',  yet you openly admit to wanting to limit someones ACTUAL rights under the Constitution.  It really makes me scratch my head.

I hope he finds what he's after.  Maybe he will break down and go find a house somewhere that is close to his friends and family that he can string antennas to his hearts content. 
And if not, he figures a way to hide something and get on the air with it and again, enjoy the hobby. 


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K1VSK

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #183 on: January 14, 2020, 01:24:52 PM »

Don,
I never said "right". I was quoting some else, so I put it in quotations ;). It is not a "right" to have an antenna, especially when you're under CC&R's. As far as you think there is no problem, well, we agree to disagree on that one, despite no hard evidence. There's also is no hard evidence that there isn't a problem. I've lived in three such communities...that's my hard evidence. Many HOA ham friends here in the Phoenix area that will back me up on that one. They're all "antenna challenged", and if they're operating, it's strictly under the radar.

73,  Bob K7JQ

I suspect no one can know how many hams in those 3 communities would erect an antenna if the rules were different. We are both speculating.

As I noted before, in our HOA which is pretty large (20,000 people), there are approx. 70 hams, only one of whom bothered to ask for permission and it was granted.

If my HOA is typical and there is no reason to assume otherwise, arguably, one could extrapolate it to indicate in your 3 communities, there are only a few who might be hindered in some way. Absent knowing if they are and further, if they requested but were denied permission, we can only continue speculating.

With all this speculation, I think you know ‘where I’m going’ with this line of reasoning.

Suffice it to say the legislators with whom I have spoken unanimously agree clarity of the problem is a prerequisite to crafting and supporting legislation. What you, i or anyone else believes is irrelevant.
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K7JQ

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #184 on: January 14, 2020, 02:43:38 PM »


As I noted before, in our HOA which is pretty large (20,000 people)....

Suffice it to say the legislators with whom I have spoken unanimously agree clarity of the problem is a prerequisite to crafting and supporting legislation. What you, i or anyone else believes is irrelevant.

20,000 people?? That's not an HOA...that's a small city  ;). My current master planned community, the largest of the three I've lived in, is about 1,000 homes. Mostly older folks, so I estimate about maximum 2,500 people.

True, what we believe is irrelevant, just guessing. As our voice, it's up to the ARRL to prove it is a problem. They're like a boxer...keeps getting knocked down, but gets right back up. Don't know if they'll eventually stay down for the count ;D.
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WS4E

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #185 on: January 14, 2020, 07:21:19 PM »

Maybe this time the ARRL will learn this time that the ONLY way to get anything passed in Congress these days is get it attached as an amendment to something big that both houses must pass like a Defense Dept budget bill or something like that, which they never actually read because the bills are so but, they just pass them.   

Getting an individual bill passed in congress is impossible these days unless you are a fortune 50 and pay enough of them off.
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K1VSK

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #186 on: January 14, 2020, 07:48:41 PM »

Maybe this time the ARRL will learn this time that the ONLY way to get anything passed in Congress these days is get it attached as an amendment to something big that both houses must pass like a Defense Dept budget bill or something like that, which they never actually read because the bills are so but, they just pass them.   

Getting an individual bill passed in congress is impossible these days unless you are a fortune 50 and pay enough of them off.
That was in fact their last ploy - ARPA was buried in an Appropriations Bill in the last Congress which was enacted with deletion of the antenna language.

K7JQ

Lakewood Ranch is for all intents and purposes a small city, a unique zip code, town hall, etc... and tried a few years ago to incorporate as a legit city entity which ironically would have resulted in PRB-1 being applicable. Residents voted the measure down preferring to stay as an HOA because it vests greater control of the community in us rather than a political bureaucracy inherent in any city.

Ironically (and apparently too subtle for some to grasp) the very often voiced criticism here about HOAs being authoritative is exactly the reason we chose small government over big government to ensure we determine how we are governed.

One of the benefits of an HOA often overlooked or not understood and possibly a reason HOA growth is perpetuating.
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W8LV

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #187 on: January 16, 2020, 07:34:29 PM »

Eliminating HOAs from the Antenna equation will SOLVE the problem.

73 DE W8LV BILL
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K7JQ

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #188 on: January 17, 2020, 04:18:01 AM »

Eliminating HOAs from the Antenna equation will SOLVE the problem.

73 DE W8LV BILL

Bill,

You never answered my question: Do you now or ever have lived in an HOA/CC&R community? Just curious as to why you're so vehemently against them.

73,  Bob K7JQ
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K1VSK

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #189 on: January 17, 2020, 09:41:09 AM »

Eliminating HOAs from the Antenna equation will SOLVE the problem.

73 DE W8LV BILL

Bill,

You never answered my question: Do you now or ever have lived in an HOA/CC&R community? Just curious as to why you're so vehemently against them.

73,  Bob K7JQ
Silence is always telling.
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K7JQ

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #190 on: January 17, 2020, 02:48:12 PM »

Eliminating HOAs from the Antenna equation will SOLVE the problem.

73 DE W8LV BILL

Bill,

You never answered my question: Do you now or ever have lived in an HOA/CC&R community? Just curious as to why you're so vehemently against them.

73,  Bob K7JQ
Silence is always telling.

I don't know...he's so down on the "jackboot HOA man", that maybe he had a bad experience living in one. My only *disappointment* living in three of them is the antenna restrictions, which I knew about going in. Never a problem on any other issue, and never heard the many neighbors I knew over the years complain about the HOA's. I've heard a few of them getting notices about ridding their landscaping of weeds, and painting their shabby looking 12 year old sun-faded stucco homes. That's normal stuff anyone who takes pride in the appearance of their property should adhere to. But nobody complained about it. Where people get the notion that HOA communities are like Gestapo-run prisons, stripped of all their *rights*, is beyond me.
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K1VSK

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #191 on: January 17, 2020, 04:51:35 PM »

Eliminating HOAs from the Antenna equation will SOLVE the problem.

73 DE W8LV BILL

Bill,

You never answered my question: Do you now or ever have lived in an HOA/CC&R community? Just curious as to why you're so vehemently against them.

73,  Bob K7JQ
Silence is always telling.

I don't know...he's so down on the "jackboot HOA man", that maybe he had a bad experience living in one. My only *disappointment* living in three of them is the antenna restrictions, which I knew about going in. Never a problem on any other issue, and never heard the many neighbors I knew over the years complain about the HOA's. I've heard a few of them getting notices about ridding their landscaping of weeds, and painting their shabby looking 12 year old sun-faded stucco homes. That's normal stuff anyone who takes pride in the appearance of their property should adhere to. But nobody complained about it. Where people get the notion that HOA communities are like Gestapo-run prisons, stripped of all their *rights*, is beyond me.
People people prefer taking instead of listening and (maybe)learning.

And some of those act feel compelled to act morally superior by telling us everything they don’t like.

Bottom line - Annoying people unfortunately annoy everyone except themselves. And none of us can change that!
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N0YXB

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #192 on: January 17, 2020, 05:59:20 PM »

In my opinion, I believe the original intention of the "Antenna Restrictions" forum topic was to discuss various ideas and suggestions for those who live in restricted areas to operate with stealth antennas, or possible ways to get permission from the HOA. Not to debate and insult each other about the legalities of such restrictions, bash those that live under restrictions, or boast about your antennas because you don't live in one.


You've summed it up well, I agree.
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N5KO

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Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #193 on: January 18, 2020, 08:32:16 AM »

This topic has run its course and has been locked.
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