Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... 13   Go Down

Author Topic: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!  (Read 3099 times)

KB8VUL

  • Member
  • Posts: 654
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2019, 06:45:19 PM »

Quite a diatribe. I think someone got up on the wrong side of the bed ;D.

73,

"Some Dude on the Internet"

I seriously sat here and laughed after reading this. 

And in all honesty, if you want to live in a subdivison somewhere that's under an HOA and you are comfortable with it, great.  Don't think that because " Some other dude on the internet" says it's bad that you should feel that way as well.  We all go a different way.
My point is this.  This part of this forum is for getting answers to how do I circumvent the agreements I signed when I moved into said subdivision.  You CHOSE to move there and live under those regulations.  Sitting on the Interweb complaining that you didn't know you were gonna take up Ham radio as a hobby when you moved in, or that they would actually enforce the agreement is silly.  And trying to figure out how to get past it, or have the ARRL get some magical laws past so that you can junk up your neighborhood with antennas and towers (sorry I have heard that it's just wire antennas and not towers... but if they give a finger you will want the arm to the shoulder and a 80 foot crank up with a 5 element tribander).  The whole premise of it is just wrong.  If you like where you are at, take up knitting, or golf, or something other than ham radio.  If you are dead set on being a ham, then go buy a house in the country that has no restriction and start watering the ground with money and watch the steel and aluminum begin to sprout.  But don't sit and try to figure some way getting past the "NO ANTENNAS" rule that HOA has set down.    Because be honest, we hear about twice a year that some HOA told a homeowner that they couldn't fly an American flag.  And after the media beating on the HOA for a week they relent.  Got news, your stealth antenna is NOT an American flag.  The media is NOT going to be on the doorstep of the HOA over your stealth antenna and you will get fined, or booted from the subdivision.  And read your agreement carefully, there are some that allow the HOA to evict you from your own home.
Logged

W8LV

  • Member
  • Posts: 421
    • homeURL
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2019, 08:10:43 PM »



It's unhelpful to tell people to avoid HOAs and the like.

If everyone had avoided HOAs and other restrictive situations, this forum wouldn't exist.  Please don't tell people how (smart you are because) you avoided these kinds of restrictions.
Logged

KB8VUL

  • Member
  • Posts: 654
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2019, 03:37:54 AM »



It's unhelpful to tell people to avoid HOAs and the like.

If everyone had avoided HOAs and other restrictive situations, this forum wouldn't exist.  Please don't tell people how (smart you are because) you avoided these kinds of restrictions.

I never once said I was smart for avoiding an HOA.  Nor did I exert some holier than thou attitude that I was somehow better because I personally chose to NOT buy a house that didn't have any restrictions.  As far as this forum existing, like I said before.  You all need to get another forum together titled "How much my fines were because I followed the advice of some fool on the inter-web."

How about a discussion of legal contracts with private parties where they are writing the contract and have total control of making changes to it without your consent? I am not arguing the idea of I want to put up an antenna here.. I am arguing that screwing with an HOA and their contract is a REALLY bad idea.  You bought the house, you signed the paper, it's ALL on you if you made that decision and sitting here hoping for the ARRL or some fool on the Internet to get YOU out of YOUR contractual obligation to NOT do X, be that put up an antenna or own the wrong type of car, paint your house the a color that is NOT on the approved list of colors or whatever else you are restricted from is plain dumb.

And I am not saying that you are somehow stupid for choosing to live under such restrictions.  I am saying that YOU chose to do it, and if you no longer like it then pack your trash and find somewhere else to be.  But having some expectation because you are a HAM (HOBBY RADIO) that you shouldn't be restricted, or need some manner in which to circumvent the rules that YOU chose to live by that are now a hindrance is silly. 
The whole idea has its roots in the "Hams are the last best hope for humanity and we will save the planet with our HT's, fake police badges and yellow vests. 

As far as "This forum with not exist if it weren't for restrictions"   REALLY??? how does this have anything to do with Amplifiers, Homebrew radios, repeaters, digital communications or any other subpart of the eHam forum???? The forum is bigger than this ONE topic.  Why is it that you choose to have a sub part to this forum that condones trying to bypass a legally binding agreement between home owners and the HOA that THEY CHOSE TO LIVE UNDER???
Are we gonna start a sub-part to the forum discussing running power on CB radio?  We can all get schooled on how to generate 20KW from a mobile with a tube amp.  (Yes, it's a thing).  Only difference there is that's a federal regulation, and we are just discussing circumventing a SIGNED legal agreement.  So lets, take it to that same level, and start a sub-part of the forum for extra-marital affairs.  You signed an agreement with him, her, or whatever they choose to identify as, saying that you wouldn't do that.  Lets discuss how to get a little on the side for those of us that are married.

So how about going back and READING what I actually said, that if you want to live in a subdivision that has an HOA and there are restrictions, you need to learn to live with them, if not then don't live in a restricted neighborhood.  That's not how smart I am... that is LOGIC and REASON.  No different than don't blindly stick your hands in a powered on tube amp unless you want to get shocked.   
My argument is that since you made that choice, live with it or move.  Don't have expectation that the League, or anyone else is going to get you out of your agreement to NOT do the things you agreed to NOT do.  And if you DO get that somehow that you WILL be that guy when you stick your tower in the back yard of your restricted housing development no more or less so than if you rolled a junk car into the yard and put it on blocks redneck style in the front yard.  Because, if that restriction somehow gets lifted because you are a ham and you go stringing antenna all over the yard, the neighbors will be just as mad.  Only difference is you now have the legal right to piss them off.  Hey wait... a legal right to make people mad.  We need to get on this  right away,  it's people God given right to be mad, and there should be no restriction on making others mad... it's good for them. 
Logged

KB8VUL

  • Member
  • Posts: 654
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2019, 03:48:03 AM »

And one might actually LOOK at the topic of the THREAD here which EVERYTHING I have said is in direct response to. 
This isn't off the cuff.  This IS a response to the topic of the thread.
Logged

K7JQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 2602
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2019, 11:32:58 AM »

KB8VUL,

What you apparently fail to realize is that the ARRL's efforts to achieve some relief from CC&R ham radio antenna restrictions has been based on the precedence set when the Federal government (FCC) exercised its power to override private land use contract regulations, most specifically by invoking the OTARD rule. Previously CC&R boilerplate "antenna" prohibitions were now FCC circumvented by allowing satellite dishes and over-the-air TV receiving antennas. The keyword here is "antennas". Why TV "antennas" are allowed, and not ham radio "antennas"?

Agreed, small satellite dishes are not huge, ugly pieces of metal that would, IMO, be referred to as community eyesores. However, over-the-air broadcast TV antennas could be, depending on how far the community is from TV transmitting towers. They can have many elements on a long boom, and be rotated on a tall enough mast to effectively receive TV broadcast material. They are allowed by law. One of my neighbors has one of those in my "antenna restricted" community (far from TV transmitting towers), and the HOA has no legal recourse to make him remove it. My neighbor merely wants to watch TV for free, and not have to pay for satellite or cable delivery. This antenna is far more obtrusive and a perceived eyesore than a discretely placed  ham radio wire dipole or vertical. Remember, the ARRL is not talking about towers and beams on a postage-stamp sized lot, as you seem to always be referring to.

This could be construed as a case of discrimination, but the ARRL has two main roadblocks in their efforts:
1. The interpretation of "reasonable accommodation". True, IMO some unreasonable hams would say that a tower and beam is reasonable. Specific language must be put in place, but agreement on that is dubious.
2. The ARRL and ham radio community don't have the clout/recognition nor the financing at their disposal that the CAI, satellite, and broadcast TV industries have to, shall I say, "influence" lawmakers. Unfortunately, that's the way our government works. I don't think anyone can dispute this.

Now, until such antenna relief legislation is passed, I agree that if one freely moves into a CC&R/HOA antenna restricted community, whether or not they read and understand the rules involved, they are bound to those CC&R's. They should not complain after the fact that they can't erect antennas, but if they do so, it's at their own risk, and should be willing to accept any reprisals if they are caught. Personally, I have stealth antennas (as do many hams), and have been successful using them. But I certainly don't advocate anyone doing this...it's their own choice.

Another question...just what is the purpose of this main eham topic "Antenna Restrictions"? Is it to discuss ways to somewhat successfully operate ham radio in CC&R/HOA antenna restricted/prohibited communities with alternative antenna ideas? Or is it to respectfully discuss the legality of such restrictions, and possible ways to legally abolish or revise them altogether? If it's the latter, and it's determined, cut-and-dried, that there's no way one should attempt to operate in such communities for fear of breaking the law, then maybe the "Antenna Restrictions" topic should be totally removed from eham forums. Then all these heretofore thousands of posts are moot, and a waste of time for everyone. I don't know the answer, but apparently the owners/ moderators of eham.net had a reason for making this a forum topic.

73,  Bob K7JQ       
Logged

WB2KSP

  • Member
  • Posts: 828
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2019, 12:26:29 PM »

...
...

WB2KSP,

Yes, I fully agree with the federal government stepping in when American citizens are being denied basic human rights based on race, creed, color, religion or sex.

But I don't see the ability to put up an obnoxious sky hook as a basic human right.  (Yes, "obnoxious" is a relative term--what may be reasonably accommodating to one may be obnoxious to another.)

What I see is since we are a land of laws which are based on years and years of incremental "precedence", maybe we've reached a point where there are precedents now which could be argued as reasons to start removing basic human rights from others.  Maybe we, as a nation, need to step back and evaluate the thousands and thousands of pages of laws which no one fully understands any more.  Maybe that's the reason so many people are angry these days--because we all don't know all the rules any more.  I've struggled to keep things as simple as possible my whole life.

Such as, since there's a federal law saying flag poles are ok, that could be interpreted as a precedence in which the next incremental step is to mean 100' towers are ok, which lowers the visual appeal to future buyers in that neighborhood, thus lowering housing prices in that neighborhood where the majority of folks currently living in that neighborhood have home ownership as part of their "investment portfolio," thus lowering their projected retirement plans, thus infringing on their basic human right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

...
...

K1VSK,

Yes, since the airwaves are an international issue, it makes sense that the federal government should regulate it.  And yes, just because they grant you a license to use those airwaves, that doesn't give you a right to infringe on others.

Thomas Jefferson said, "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’, because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."

(Our founders don't get enough credit these days--they were pretty smart.)

Or a more recent quote:  In the early 1900's U.S. Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr said, “Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins.”

Yes, I have to try to smile also when these issues come up.  Besides, we have countless other much bigger issues to deal with other than the ability for a handful of hams to play with radios.

Sorry, this is the only way I can clearly state my opposition to the ARRL's effort to lobby congress to write any kind of law that... well any kind of law.

Carry on.

I believe we are talking past each other here. If one lives on a postage stamp property where a tower could fall on a neighbors property, and which would stick out like a sore thumb, I can completely understand limitations on land use. However, that isn't what I was talking about. As an example, on my old home I had a TH5 on the roof. It was about 3 feet above the roof line and guyed to the roof. It was professionally installed. I received no complaints from any neighbor. I kept up my property and my house structure. I had an 80 meter V in the back yard which replaced a Butternut 80/40 meter vertical. When I moved to my current home, which didn't have a room for my radio equipment I had no antennas installed (That was my decision). In 2011 after my children had gone off to college I decided to get back on the air. Using a sling shot, I put up a 20 meter V about 75 foot above ground. I fed it with LMR 400 and a current balun. A few months later in installed a 80/40 V about 60 foot above ground fed by RG8X & a W2AU balun. I purchased the wire from Home Depot. It's braided copper wire  with a black plastic coating. Both antennas have been up since the time they were installed and at present I am at 299 confirmed with 8 band DXCC. All with 100 watts and simple wires. My antennas can not be seen from the street unless someone has set out to find them and catches them at the right angle (and knows where to look) and yet, if I lived in an HOA my antennas would be against the rules. It's ridiculous! I cause no RFI inside my home and no neighbors have indicated that they even know that I am on the air. Yet, if I were to move into a HOA controlled neighborhood, I would be sighted, fined and maybe even evicted. My home was built in 1985 and is on 1/3 of an acre of land. My neighbors all have pools (an item which I have no interest in, having had one in my old home) and we all get along. They enjoy their pools and I enjoy my antennas. That is what owning a home and living in a neighborhood and being a good neighbor should be about. I chose not to install my TH5 (much as I enjoyed it) here because I didn't feel it fit the neighborhood. I have respect for my neighbors and they obviously respect me, simple as that. Finally, it's obvious that I didn't make myself clear when I used the denial of home ownership based on race. I didn't mean to  imply that both race based rejection and antenna based rejection are the same thing. However, in both cases the arbitrary rejection is wrong and as I stated in my previous post they both require rules to be set in place by the federal government. All use of radio transmissions whether you chose to call it a right or a privilege should be and is controlled by the federal government. Past law put into place (PRB1) basically states just that. The difference is that one piece of land is controlled by a local government and the other (and here's the loophole) is controlled by a local organization. By putting ruled such as race based selection into effect the federal government has already proven that there are limits to these local groups are not immune from nor above the law.
Logged

K1VSK

  • Member
  • Posts: 1949
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2019, 03:12:25 PM »

KB8VUL,

What you apparently fail to realize is that the ARRL's efforts to achieve some relief from CC&R ham radio antenna restrictions has been based on the precedence set when the Federal government (FCC) exercised its power to override private land use contract regulations, most specifically by invoking the OTARD rule. Previously CC&R boilerplate "antenna" prohibitions were now FCC circumvented by allowing satellite dishes and over-the-air TV receiving antennas. The keyword here is "antennas". Why TV "antennas" are allowed, and not ham radio "antennas"?

Agreed, small satellite dishes are not huge, ugly pieces of metal that would, IMO, be referred to as community eyesores. However, over-the-air broadcast TV antennas could be, depending on how far the community is from TV transmitting towers. They can have many elements on a long boom, and be rotated on a tall enough mast to effectively receive TV broadcast material. They are allowed by law. One of my neighbors has one of those in my "antenna restricted" community (far from TV transmitting towers), and the HOA has no legal recourse to make him remove it. My neighbor merely wants to watch TV for free, and not have to pay for satellite or cable delivery. This antenna is far more obtrusive and a perceived eyesore than a discretely placed  ham radio wire dipole or vertical. Remember, the ARRL is not talking about towers and beams on a postage-stamp sized lot, as you seem to always be referring to.

This could be construed as a case of discrimination, but the ARRL has two main roadblocks in their efforts:
1. The interpretation of "reasonable accommodation". True, IMO some unreasonable hams would say that a tower and beam is reasonable. Specific language must be put in place, but agreement on that is dubious.
2. The ARRL and ham radio community don't have the clout/recognition nor the financing at their disposal that the CAI, satellite, and broadcast TV industries have to, shall I say, "influence" lawmakers. Unfortunately, that's the way our government works. I don't think anyone can dispute this.

Now, until such antenna relief legislation is passed, I agree that if one freely moves into a CC&R/HOA antenna restricted community, whether or not they read and understand the rules involved, they are bound to those CC&R's. They should not complain after the fact that they can't erect antennas, but if they do so, it's at their own risk, and should be willing to accept any reprisals if they are caught. Personally, I have stealth antennas (as do many hams), and have been successful using them. But I certainly don't advocate anyone doing this...it's their own choice.

Another question...just what is the purpose of this main eham topic "Antenna Restrictions"? Is it to discuss ways to somewhat successfully operate ham radio in CC&R/HOA antenna restricted/prohibited communities with alternative antenna ideas? Or is it to respectfully discuss the legality of such restrictions, and possible ways to legally abolish or revise them altogether? If it's the latter, and it's determined, cut-and-dried, that there's no way one should attempt to operate in such communities for fear of breaking the law, then maybe the "Antenna Restrictions" topic should be totally removed from eham forums. Then all these heretofore thousands of posts are moot, and a waste of time for everyone. I don't know the answer, but apparently the owners/ moderators of eham.net had a reason for making this a forum topic.

73,  Bob K7JQ       

I believe virtually all HOAs are quite specific in allowing satellite dishes, however, only of a prescribed size, height and location in conformance with OTARD. In most if not all cases, the dish is limited in location to an unobtrusive area hidden from view. OTARD does not usurp aesthetic determinations by an HOA.

The example you described about long boom elevated TV antennas is beyond the scope of interpretation of OTARD and likely prohibited from most if not all HOAs.

We need to be careful what metaphors are used when discussing ham radio antennas as well as the unambiguous authority HOAs have notwithstanding OTARD to regulate placement of satellite dish antennas.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 03:19:40 PM by K1VSK »
Logged

KB8VUL

  • Member
  • Posts: 654
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2019, 03:16:45 PM »

KB8VUL,

What you apparently fail to realize is that the ARRL's efforts to achieve some relief from CC&R ham radio antenna restrictions has been based on the precedence set when the Federal government (FCC) exercised its power to override private land use contract regulations, most specifically by invoking the OTARD rule. Previously CC&R boilerplate "antenna" prohibitions were now FCC circumvented by allowing satellite dishes and over-the-air TV receiving antennas. The keyword here is "antennas". Why TV "antennas" are allowed, and not ham radio "antennas"?

Agreed, small satellite dishes are not huge, ugly pieces of metal that would, IMO, be referred to as community eyesores. However, over-the-air broadcast TV antennas could be, depending on how far the community is from TV transmitting towers. They can have many elements on a long boom, and be rotated on a tall enough mast to effectively receive TV broadcast material. They are allowed by law. One of my neighbors has one of those in my "antenna restricted" community (far from TV transmitting towers), and the HOA has no legal recourse to make him remove it. My neighbor merely wants to watch TV for free, and not have to pay for satellite or cable delivery. This antenna is far more obtrusive and a perceived eyesore than a discretely placed  ham radio wire dipole or vertical. Remember, the ARRL is not talking about towers and beams on a postage-stamp sized lot, as you seem to always be referring to.

This could be construed as a case of discrimination, but the ARRL has two main roadblocks in their efforts:
1. The interpretation of "reasonable accommodation". True, IMO some unreasonable hams would say that a tower and beam is reasonable. Specific language must be put in place, but agreement on that is dubious.
2. The ARRL and ham radio community don't have the clout/recognition nor the financing at their disposal that the CAI, satellite, and broadcast TV industries have to, shall I say, "influence" lawmakers. Unfortunately, that's the way our government works. I don't think anyone can dispute this.

Now, until such antenna relief legislation is passed, I agree that if one freely moves into a CC&R/HOA antenna restricted community, whether or not they read and understand the rules involved, they are bound to those CC&R's. They should not complain after the fact that they can't erect antennas, but if they do so, it's at their own risk, and should be willing to accept any reprisals if they are caught. Personally, I have stealth antennas (as do many hams), and have been successful using them. But I certainly don't advocate anyone doing this...it's their own choice.

Another question...just what is the purpose of this main eham topic "Antenna Restrictions"? Is it to discuss ways to somewhat successfully operate ham radio in CC&R/HOA antenna restricted/prohibited communities with alternative antenna ideas? Or is it to respectfully discuss the legality of such restrictions, and possible ways to legally abolish or revise them altogether? If it's the latter, and it's determined, cut-and-dried, that there's no way one should attempt to operate in such communities for fear of breaking the law, then maybe the "Antenna Restrictions" topic should be totally removed from eham forums. Then all these heretofore thousands of posts are moot, and a waste of time for everyone. I don't know the answer, but apparently the owners/ moderators of eham.net had a reason for making this a forum topic.

73,  Bob K7JQ       

Actually I do see what you are saying.  And I am aware of PRB1 and the other efforts to get some relief for ham operators that are under HOA and CC&R's some level of relief. 
And I am all for the discussion of how to mask the visual aspects of antennas for ANY reason.  HOA, CC&R, wining neighbors, or the personal feeling that someone may have to mask their install. 
Running green wire antenna's in tree lines, using the drain vent as a loading coil for a small whip, putting brown and green paint (camo) on a vertical antenna and putting it in a tree for it to blend in.  And of course any other idea that may come up is a good topic to discuss on here.  And calling the main topic "hidden and stealth antennas"  I would find to be perfectly acceptable,  but that's not the case... and it's not the topic of this discussion.  The OP's topic of this thread is the league and what they DIDN'T provide for those under HOA and CC&R restriction.  And sitting here debating what the league SHOULD be doing, and how unfair it is that you personally bought a house, signed a paper that said NO ANTENNAS... now you have a ham and you want relief from that.  NO, you don't get to cry about choosing to take up residence in a restricted community, and then complain because your hobby and interests changed and now you should have the right to junk up your neighborhood with a tower and antenna's all over the place.   Now mind you,,, you can see my tower for MILES.  Old microwave site, 240 foot tall, 40 foot square at the top deck.  Big flashing light on top,,, all the time.  The two towers at the house are MUCH smaller, but they are there.  Point is you have options.  Now I ain't gonna lie,  they are developing the land around the tower, putting in houses, which are under CC&R from the developer.  But my site was built in 1959.  And it was a farmers field then, so we have no restriction.  I find it funny that the houses surrounding a huge antenna tower have antenna restrictions on them but what ever.  Not my problem. 

Back to the point I am trying to make.  IF you are trying to hide your antenna's for ANY reason.  Great... And if you need help figuring out how.  I will assist as I can on here.  If you are going to hope and dream that the league is going to get you special permission to stand up a 80 foot tower with a 5 element tri-bander in a otherwise restricted community, then no,, I am not going to lend my support to that at all.  As I have commented before, I like irritating people.  I believe it's good for everyone to be mad once in a while.  But agreeing to something, and putting your name on paper indicating as such.  Then going out and passing a test consisting of 30 multiple choice questions should just give you the right to thumb your nose at the entire neighborhood that you live in, because you passed a ham test?  No,  that's not right.  But then again, we could add a topic on this forum for all us married folks to get a side piece going on.  After all it was JUST a marriage license that we signed,,, and she's not kept herself up real good either.  So we should have he right to thumb our noses at that rule too.  And in truth, there are a LOT of parallels here.  Because ultimately, if you do EITHER, the ending is the same.... Either the HOA will have you removed from your house,,, or SHE will throw you out and change the locks.  OR, you make the choice to move and go somewhere you can do that.  For the tower thing, it's anywhere that's not restricted,  for the other,   I hear Utah will allow some of that sort of thing to occur. but only in certain areas and you have to get a new Bible.
Logged

WW5F

  • Posts: 451
    • HomeURL
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2019, 05:26:30 AM »

...
...
...
...
...
...
...I have respect for my neighbors and they obviously respect me, simple as that. ...
Yes, respect between neighbors.  I have that also.  Laws that allow you to disrespect your neighbors are the definition of tyranny.

One more note:  Flag poles and TV receiving antennae are things that potentially affect everyone.  Allows freedom of speech, allows choice.  Hams are few and far between and transmitting antennae are not only a potential "eye sore" but also a potential source of RFI and a potential continuous thorn in your neighbors' ability to watch/listen to commercial broadcasts uninterrupted.

Simple as that also.

Peace out.
Logged

W9IQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 8866
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2019, 05:32:47 AM »

Since flag poles must be accommodated and since most external antennas are not permitted, would this crowd support a federal law that allowed all otherwise accommodated flag poles to be used as amateur radio antennas?

- Glenn W9IQ
Logged
- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

K1VSK

  • Member
  • Posts: 1949
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2019, 06:22:24 AM »

Since flag poles must be accommodated and since most external antennas are not permitted, would this crowd support a federal law that allowed all otherwise accommodated flag poles to be used as amateur radio antennas?

- Glenn W9IQ

Your construct is based on vague wording and incorrect premise.

Not all flag poles are allowable; only those which an HOA can unequivocally regulate in terms of size, location, etc...

Your term “otherwise accommodated” is meaningless in this context.

Also, the Federal government isn’t prone to legislating practical use considerations. It’s therefore moot whether or not anyone actually flies a flag (also of a size prescribed by an HOA if it so chooses) or has a wire internal to or attracted to it.

The unintended consequence of your premise also serves to motivate an HOA to prohibit antennas rather than make accommodations so as to ensure people don’t ‘game’ the rules.

Essentially, you exemplify,  by your question, the reason some HOAs write “no antenna” prohibitions.
Logged

W9IQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 8866
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2019, 06:38:21 AM »

You are reading WAY to much into my question.

An HOA cannot outright ban all flagpoles. They must allow flagpoles within certain criterion that they set.

So the resident in this HOA goes through whatever the process is to get his flagpole approved by the HOA. He now has HOA permission to install his/her flagpole.

Would you support a federal law that mandates he/she is also allowed to use the above approved flagpole as an antenna? (No additional visible appendages, etc. would be permitted so the approved appearance would be preserved.)

- Glenn W9IQ
Logged
- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

K1VSK

  • Member
  • Posts: 1949
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2019, 06:58:06 AM »

You are reading WAY to much into my question.

An HOA cannot outright ban all flagpoles. They must allow flagpoles within certain criterion that they set.

So the resident in this HOA goes through whatever the process is to get his flagpole approved by the HOA. He now has HOA permission to install his/her flagpole.

Would you support a federal law that mandates he/she is also allowed to use the above approved flagpole as an antenna? (No additional visible appendages, etc. would be permitted so the approved appearance would be preserved.)

- Glenn W9IQ

Why regurgitate the same stuff -wasn’t it you who played thread police complaining about regurgitating the same stuff?

As I said, it’s all about use.  If a rule precludes use, you have your answer. If the rules dictates orprecludes function, again, you have your answer. If it’s form, your question is irrelevant.

This isn’t that complicated.
Logged

W9IQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 8866
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2019, 07:20:48 AM »

I can see you don't want to answer the question. Does anyone else ?

- Glenn W9IQ
Logged
- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

K7JQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 2602
Re: HOA Lapdogs Beware:The ARRL is BACK!
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2019, 08:17:20 AM »

Since flag poles must be accommodated and since most external antennas are not permitted, would this crowd support a federal law that allowed all otherwise accommodated flag poles to be used as amateur radio antennas?

- Glenn W9IQ

Flag POLES DO NOT have to be accommodated. Displaying the American flag must be accommodated. An HOA does have the right to dictate how and where the flag can be displayed. For instance, they can limit the display to a certain size flag affixed to a small pole at a 45 degree angle attached to a bracket on the side of the house. They can limit the size of a flag if it obstructs the view of a neighbor. If they do allow flagpoles, they can also prohibit the thump-thump noise of the rope flapping/clanging against the pole in the wind. Check with your HOA for their requirements.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... 13   Go Up