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Author Topic: Which radio...  (Read 1209 times)

RENTON481

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2019, 05:10:29 PM »

I wouldn't 'die' for any radio but I do wish I would have bought a Kenwood R-1000 when they were new... very cool radio. But really, I'm radio'd up. Anything out there that can be heard my radios will pick up, it's all dependent on your antenna anyway, for the most part.

RE: SDRs: Alpard makes a good point -- a lot of SDRs are online, you don't even have to have one attached to your computer (if you use a dongle or USB version) or have an SDR program and whatever hardware needed... Just an internet connection. I've only used one of the SDRs in Scandinavia via the internet. It was pretty cool.
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HFCRUSR

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2019, 08:05:36 PM »

There seem to be many WEB SDR sites on the Internet, to which you can link with your Internet Browser of PC, and listen to all the air waves on the full spectrum for FREE.

I browsed the SDR sites tonight with my Mac PC,  did some HF (80m and 160m band) listening, and indeed the reception signal and quality of the audio was very good.

But I still like tuning around my old ICOMs, Yaesus and Kenwoods. :)
Yeah that's why I asked him but it looks like he's not gonna answer my questions.
I'm with you-I prefer to "earn" each DX and enjoy each SW broadcast with my own REAL receivers and copied straight from the air with my own antennas. That never gets old.
Pulling stuff off the 'net is no challenge and it's boring.

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Not a ham, but an avid hobbyist in HF world. All things, short of transmit happen in this shack.

N8YX

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2019, 08:31:49 AM »

Real radios aren't susceptible to their host platforms contracting the virus of the day then going belly-up.

I'd keep my SDR hosts patched (if in current vendor support) or air-gapped (if not) and not use them for anything besides controlling the receivers. Alternatively, build the controller software into a live CD/DVD distro and boot from that.
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K7LZR

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2019, 07:15:16 PM »

Yeah, I like the real rigs on my finger tip, rather than some software device on PC.

My PCs are also doing some other business stuff usually. It will mean getting another PC for SDR, and it gets more expensive to actually get up and running too.

Plus, if want to rely on the software for SWL or Ham Radio, then why not just go for the Apps. on the smart phones or iPads? It is totally free and they do the same job.

SWL and Ham Radio is not about getting grips with the modern techs. or for the marvels of convenience and practicality or lots of buttons and the Menus.  But rather experiencing the classic technology of communication as they used to in the early Golden era of our history.

SWL and Ham Radio is obsolete classic hobby by nature anyway :), or keeping with the tradition, as our bygone and senior SWLs and Hams used to do during the golden times of our culture i.e. the 1960s and 1970s. :)

There got to be element of challenge, simplicity and foundation in this hobby, or the true pleasure is hollow and empty lost in the thin air.  Software is now too omnipresent and convenient for anyone to feel any degree of novelty or fun from it.


Well, I've been on both sides of this fence - A well tuned, Motorola built Collins R-390A was the goto here for many years, and I've owned and used many other high end and many not-so-good receivers too. And most of my ham transceivers from about 1982 on have had decent general coverage receivers too.

But when the time finally arrived when SDR technology achieved a good performance-to-price ratio, I decided to give it a go. First SDR here was a Flex 1500 QRP rig. I found it to be easy to set up and use, and I immediately saw the potential. I don't always jump on board with new technology, but here was an exception. What drew me in from my beloved R-390A et al were these things:

1) No switches, pots, tuning capacitors, dial cords, etc to wear out.

2) No RF/IF alignment to worry about. With the analog radios, almost every time when I couldn't hear a given signal, a bit of doubt would creep into my mind - i.e. is my radio meeting specifications? Did a coil slug slip? Did a capacitor become detuned or go south? and on and on. Sometimes I would grab my trusty HP signal generator and AC voltmeter and test just to make sure. With a good SDR radio, it becomes a non issue. My SDR rigs are all every bit as sensitive as any of the analog radios which I've owned.

3) Filters! I've spent thousands of dollars over the last 40+ years on filters!  - 300hz. 400hz. 500hz. 1.8khz. 2.1khz. 2.4khz. 2.9khz. 3.2khz. and more - all for various receivers, and of course none of them were perfect for every listening situation because of their fixed bandwidth and varying degrees of skirt selectivity. With a good SDR and software, I have near perfect brickwall filters, along with SO many other interference fighting tools, some of which simply cannot be done with analog radios. And I'll never spend another penny on filters.

4) Obviously, the panoramic and waterfall displays. I had an old Hallicrafters SP-44 that I used for a bit with my beautiful SX-28A, and then I upgraded to a Heathkit SB-620 which I used with various receivers. Was a treat indeed in those days. Was expensive then, and is still expensive to do with an analog receiver now. A good modern SDR radio generally has a fantastic pan display, with bandwidth and features only dreamed about before.

As a side note, I really don't understand why people assume that a super-duper high end computer is needed to run an SDR. In my experience, Fooey. I run (2) RSP1A receivers simultaneously at up to 10mhz bandwidth on an old Dell Optiplex 360. Works great, no dropouts.

Regarding using an SDR from a cellphone, android tablet, etc., no. Not the same at all as having the SDR hardware right in your shack and connected to your own antenna(s) and computers. I rarely use the online SDR receivers because thats where I draw the line - if the signal isn't available to MY SDR in MY shack then I don't want to "cheat" to hear it. Just doesn't feel right. I couldn't cheat that way with my old R-390A, so I guess that I'm stuck in the past, there. 

I could go on but the point, I think, is made. I don't want to turn this into an SDR vs. Analog debate though, so I will offer up my choice of a dream radio of the analog persuasion too :).

So if I could buy any receiver that I wish, I think that I'd go with an Icom IC-R9500.
     
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 07:22:53 PM by K7LZR »
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K7LZR

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2019, 07:51:32 PM »

Real radios aren't susceptible to their host platforms contracting the virus of the day then going belly-up.

I'd keep my SDR hosts patched (if in current vendor support) or air-gapped (if not) and not use them for anything besides controlling the receivers. Alternatively, build the controller software into a live CD/DVD distro and boot from that.

Not an issue if you do one simple thing - DO NOT connect your radio (SDR) computer to the internet or any other network. No outside connection, no problem. My radio computer is connected ONLY to the radios.
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ALPARD

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2019, 01:05:37 AM »

Yesterday, I connected to a Websdr about 100 miles away from me, and I could hear all the stations I normally can't hear on 80m nets due to the skip or path of the propagation.

So it was great. I thought using that websdr site, I could join the net now. Before,  I could hear only 50% of the stations in the net using my old hf rig, so I didn't join the net. Now I can hear 99% of all the stations in the net.

But that websdr site couldn't hear some of the stations local to me, so it was supplimentary situation to each other.

But I could see all the strength of the SDR, and take your points too.

My Yaesu FRG7 anf ICOM R71E are about 40-50 year old, and they are still working like clockwork with no sign of wearing out or mis alignment. And they keep going working like that for many more years out lasting all of us, I am sure.

With the event of Sdr developments, I think it is now more exciting time for SWL and Ham Radio activities.

I will be getting one sooner or later, but at present time, I am quite happy using freely avallable websdr sites to supplement my setup.

It is also due to a caution by a main brand SDR compnay, that any strong nearby RF injection to thr SDR will easily destroy its front end.

I m wondering if their Achilles heel is the over susceptibility of their front end by strong static noise and any nearby RF injection to them, due to their hardware strucure mainly being fragile SMD components.

And you know and I know, that if you are a transmitting ham operator, having several radios running in the shack, and by mistake or in hurry forgets swtiching off the other radios, and fire off 100+ watts cw or ssb transmission, when heard that dx stations on the band. If your SDR was running at the time, and is very sensitive to these situation, then maybe you need a dozen of spare SDRs ready for the replacement? :D

It happened a few times here with me, and my FRG7 just shrugged it off and keeps working no bother. Not sure if SDRs can do that.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 01:17:53 AM by ALPARD »
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UTESWL

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2019, 07:21:12 AM »


Also I like being independent from Software updates and bug fixes for the SDRs.  i had enough pain and trouble doing the updates when I was using the dreaded WINDOWS 3, 4,7, and 10 in the past.  They slows your PC down, and always something didn't work after the updates.  I used to feel my PCs were under the ransom of the updates.

And I like the idea, if something goes wrong with my radio, I would open it up, and having a good look at it trying to fix or repair it myself.  I am currently working on repairing and restoring 3-4 old radios.


I prefer listening not tinkering or thinking I can fix something whose parts are often no longer available.

[quote[That is not possible with SDRs.  It is a black box with tiny PCB with tiny SMDs driven by the software, which is also blackbox.  There is no option for mods, or repairs if needed. [/quote]

It's modifiable through software. That's part of their allure you can have an entirely different radio or radios through software. You don't NEED to open it up. It just works. Also being that its a black box, with a tiny PCB and SMDs it likely will not need to be repaired any time soon. I still have an original iPhone which works to this day which is exactly what you described.


Quote
You are dictated by  the SDR company's control.

Not at all. You realize that most SDRs are both software and platform agnostic right? I can run my SDR on Windows, Linux or a Mac with a wide variety of radio and decoder apps not just the one from the company that makes it. That's another reason they're popular.

Quote
All you are allowed to do is to set it up, watch the waterfall display of the spectrum, and listen to it, and no more.  But you could do it on the Apps. I don't think you even need to attach the antenna, but just use your broad band internet connection, and hear all the Utils and everything on the AIR, if wanted to, all for FREE of charge.
So why did you even pay 50$ for a SDR and attach HF or VHF/UHF antenna to it, and hook it up on your PC?

I could not hear what is available to hear from MY location. Part of the fun for me is seeing just what I can hear from where I live with the antennas I have. I also would be stuck with just ONE receiver channel. I couldn't simultaneously decode data on multiple frequencies and listen to USB audio on several others.

Most of all I would have any control over modifying the remote SDR through software.

Quote
I think it is still useful for the people who don't want fuss with mods, and repairs, and just get on with listening the band.  And I am planning to get one eventually when I see a good deal on it.

One important thing which I think gets lost is that SDR = Software DEFINED Radio. What that essentially means is your software builds or modifies your radio. If you are hardware tinkerer no, they aren't for you as they just work. If you are a software hacker then you'll love them as you can build a radio app or modify an existing one to be the perfect radio of your dreams.

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UTESWL

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2019, 07:36:39 AM »

Another factor is that now these old classic radios cost less than a piece of new 2m collinear antennas in the 2nd hand used market, so that if one can shop around wisely for good used old radios, then it is good time to get the full station set up for less than cost of a used laptop.

I run my SDRPlay RSP1a SDR on an HP Envy 15 nr 4030 laptop I picked up on eBay for $60. For less than $250  I got a setup (laptop + SDR) that rivals "real(old)radios". I'm having a lot of fun picking out utility signals to listen to and decode.

Best thing is I can simultaneously have 8 different receivers outputting to various decoding apps while I listen to USB voice.

This morning I simultaneously decoded High Frequency Data Link (HFDL) signals from airlines communicating with ground stations in Hat Yai Thailand, South Korea, Guam, Alaska, San Francisco, Panama and New York and automatically plotted their planes positions on a world map while also listening to USB voice communications from planes and ground stations around the Pacific (Tokyo Radio, Manilla Radio, Auckland Radio, San Francisco Radio).

Try that on your R71a. I think you'd need like 9 of them to do what I did. How much would that cost again?

I can do with one SDR and one old obsolete (2012) laptop what you guys would need a shack full of radios to do, if they could do it all.
That's pretty cool especially since you've got your ute hobby pretty damn covered. But I need some education on something-when you say you can run 8 receivers at the same time, are those all your receivers or are you tapping receivers from other people? Also, what antenna(s) do you run for your SDR?
I admit I know zero about the SDR world.

They are receivers as defined by the software with the SDR I own. With my SDR you can run many "virtual receivers' or VRX's as they are called within the spectrum bandwidth (which is adjustable up to a total of 10 Mhz). I can have up to 10 mhz of bandwidth available (and visible) to listen to or decode in any given frequency range from 1hz-2000Mhz.

As I mostly focus on HF listening I usually have my 10 Mhz of spectrum within the HF range. Within that range i can create as many radios as my PC will allow (8 virtual receivers seems to be the max on this old 2012 era laptop but I can get more with it on a more powerful newer desktop). Each one of those receivers can have its own receive mode, bandwidth, noise reduction, filters etc and each one's audio can be routed to wherever I like including different decoder apps.

Another cool thing about SDRs or mine in particular, the SDR Play RSP1a, is you can record that entire spectrum bandwidth of signals, all 10 Mhz and go back later to play it back and look for any signals you may have missed. People often set this function up to record during hours they are sleeping. Just need a big hard drive or SSD but its fairly cheap to get a 4 Terabyte hard drive to store all your bandwidth recordings on today.

 As for my antenna I use the W6LVP broadband magnetic loop up about 10 feet in my back yard. I wrote a review of it here (currently it's the latest one posted): https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=13215
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 07:44:28 AM by UTESWL »
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UTESWL

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2019, 07:51:49 AM »

There seem to be many WEB SDR sites on the Internet, to which you can link with your Internet Browser of PC, and listen to all the air waves on the full spectrum for FREE.

I browsed the SDR sites tonight with my Mac PC,  did some HF (80m and 160m band) listening, and indeed the reception signal and quality of the audio was very good.

But I still like tuning around my old ICOMs, Yaesus and Kenwoods. :)
Yeah that's why I asked him but it looks like he's not gonna answer my questions.
I'm with you-I prefer to "earn" each DX and enjoy each SW broadcast with my own REAL receivers and copied straight from the air with my own antennas. That never gets old.
Pulling stuff off the 'net is no challenge and it's boring.

I just answered. I bought an SDR because like you, I prefer to hear DX available at my home not someone elses and the other reason is because you only get to control one receiver on most internet connected SDRs. The other receivers are for other users. I wouldn't want to hog all 8 channels on someone else's online SDR either just out of courtesy to the people who need to use those. I also like that I can route my audio from my 8 simultaneous virtual receivers to any decoder or recorder app I want. Can't do that with an internet connected SDR audio stream.

Don't get me wrong, online SDR's are great to check out to do casual listening and get an understanding of operating an SDR without buying one but if you want to go deeper you'll eventually want to buy your own to truly unleash the full power of these little wonders on your own antennas.
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UTESWL

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2019, 07:57:08 AM »

Real radios aren't susceptible to their host platforms contracting the virus of the day then going belly-up.

I'd keep my SDR hosts patched (if in current vendor support) or air-gapped (if not) and not use them for anything besides controlling the receivers. Alternatively, build the controller software into a live CD/DVD distro and boot from that.

I don't know when the last time I had an issue with a computer virus. Maybe 2004? In fact I don't know anyone whose had an issue with computer viruses the last decade. Most practice safe browsing best practices and don't click on suspicious stuff. Most also have a decent antivirus. And that's just talking about Windows PCs.

If you're using Linux or Mac the virus thing is almost nonexistent.
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UTESWL

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2019, 08:16:51 AM »

Just taking a more philosophical, holistic approach to the original question of "which radio?"

I'd answer that regardless of the technology, the best radio for you is the one you will actually USE. To me there is nothing sadder than a great radio which goes mostly unused. So whether your preferred radio is an 1950s-60s boat anchor, a 1980s Icom/Yaesu, a 1990s hybrid desktop/portable or a current day SDR, as long as you use it and have fun with it, that's what matters most
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VK3ZT

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2020, 08:01:41 PM »

I truly enjoy my Palstar R30A and listening to the superb AM audio through the Palstar SP30A Communications audiophile speaker.  It does it all for me.  I can listen to the local AM broadcast bands and then spin the dial to listen to some shortwave AM.

There was a lot of mulling over whether or not to spend so much money.  Though I am very happy I did.  It is my goto radio for AM listening and I use the Ten-Tec Orion II for amateur reception.

If somebody could recommend a excellent pair of communications headphones that can be switched between mono and stereo I would be most interested in a pair as well.
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WC4R

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2020, 07:36:46 AM »

Just another opinion I guess...
First, everyone has different needs, features or level of operating convenience. So, the choice become personal.
Sadly, the SWL radio market is slim. Too many good ones are discontinued. The answer will probably lie in the used market.
After 40+ years of SWLing and owning at least a dozen SWL radios, I ended up with TWO radios. The Icom IC-R75 and the SDRplay RSPdx.
Very different types and serve different needs depending on what I need at the time.
In any case, buy-try-sell, repeat.
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HFCRUSR

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2020, 10:35:56 AM »

I truly enjoy my Palstar R30A and listening to the superb AM audio through the Palstar SP30A Communications audiophile speaker.  It does it all for me.  I can listen to the local AM broadcast bands and then spin the dial to listen to some shortwave AM.

There was a lot of mulling over whether or not to spend so much money.  Though I am very happy I did.  It is my goto radio for AM listening and I use the Ten-Tec Orion II for amateur reception.

If somebody could recommend a excellent pair of communications headphones that can be switched between mono and stereo I would be most interested in a pair as well.
I have a very nice headphone set made by Calrad (model#15-135b) that came with a metal detector. It has the mono/stereo switch and separate volume controls on each ear.
I use these for the HF rigs and they have perfect pitch for that.
I guess you could try a search for this model.
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Not a ham, but an avid hobbyist in HF world. All things, short of transmit happen in this shack.

KQ4O

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Re: Which radio...
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2020, 07:43:47 PM »

To answer the original poster's question, it was always the Drake R7 when I first started SWL. I eventually got an R7A and loaded it with all filters including replacing the 6 kHz filter that was in it with the wider SL8000 (much more useful when the 4 kHz filter is already installed) and the AUX-7 board filled with the HF broadcast bands.
Later on, it was the R&S EK070 (which I see you have on your YouTube channel, nice!!). Those professional receivers just have an aura about them, despite not having interference fighting features like a notch filter or PBT (well, very few do anyway). Again, I eventually got a Cubic CDR-3250 and then a Dansk M-3000 (which has a very useful notch filter) to make me happy. Buying an EK070 is much more expensive and I got my Professional Receiver fix with those two.
So... I'm good.
As far as the debate that ensued regarding black box SDRs, remote controlled Internet receivers and traditional radios, just enjoy what you enjoy!  I personally have no interest in using a computer as a receiver, regardless of how well they may perform. Yes, I'm nostalgic. I grew up in a world where radios were cabinets full of electronic components and were worked with pushbuttons, switches and knobs, not a computer mouse.  Radio signals travelled on their frequency from the transmitter bouncing off the ionosphere to reach my antenna, not an Internet line.  I like the challenge of receiving these signals with actual radio receivers and well designed antenna systems. However, I do understand those who use SDRs and remote receivers, it's a better experience for them. It's all a personal choice of what someone enjoys using. What I don't undertstand is trying to argue over why something is "better."  Better is getting enjoyment out of what you use.   
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