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Author Topic: Cheap generator with power supply  (Read 570 times)

KC3EDP

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Cheap generator with power supply
« on: December 08, 2019, 02:59:02 PM »

    So I'm interested in back up power unless it's going to turn into rocket science. ;D

I have Yaesu 1030A power supply, a buddy thinks using a "cheap" generator is OK because the power supply will make all well. Not create "dirty" power.

I'm also interested in battery but will save that for another thread.
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KC3EDP

K1VSK

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2019, 03:25:48 PM »

Lots of “cheap” gen sets produce radiated noise. Note noise comes in two forms - radiated and conducted. Any power supply will not eliminate the former.

Your buddy might be well-intended but not well-informed.

Check out the ARRL’s review of generator noise as well as the reviews by CR et.al.
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W9IQ

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2019, 03:34:55 PM »

You didn't state what you are powering with your 1030A supply. It is capable of producing 25 amps at 13.8 volts. That is 345 watts (25 amps * 13.8 volts). It is probably about 80% efficient so your generator will need to supply at least 430 watts (345 watts / 0.80). Add to that any other accessories (e.g. table light, etc.) that you would like to power.

Your 1030A supply is not a perfect filter for a generator although it will correct for a reasonable amount of line sag and it will probably not be bothered with a minor amount of sine wave distortion.

So shop for a 750 or more watt generator that is in your price range. If you are using it for casual, occasional operation and you are budget conscious, you can probably go "off brand" via Harbor Freight or others. If you are counting on it for Emcom or other critical applications, then consider a name brand such as Honda for better parts and service availability. An inverter generator will be more energy efficient and quieter on the average but it tends to be more expensive than classic gas generators. If your operational profile is portable, then also consider the weight of the generator.

In any case, good maintenance is key to longer, trouble free operation.

Here is a somewhat dated comparison of RFI by inverter generators that the ARRL performed:

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/protected/Group/Members/ProductReview/PROD%20REV%20June%202012.pdf


- Glenn W9IQ
« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 03:53:39 PM by W9IQ »
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

W6UXB

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2019, 05:05:10 PM »

I use a Sportsman 1800/2200 inverter generator works great and mine is the dual fuel version, runs on propane as well as gasoline, never put gasoline in it only used propane so much cleaner and can be stored inside no smelly messy fuel! Got it on ebay for about $500
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KJ4RWH

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2019, 01:45:17 PM »

I know this will start a street fight but I have a Harbor Freight "Tailgater" 900w 2cycle genny that I've used for radio and various tasks for 10 years now. (It wasn't called the Tailgater when I bought mine but the same machine) I've scoped the output and it's a clean sine wave and it's dead on 60 cycles. Quieter than I expected, makes a low pitched Brrrrrrr as it runs. "Works well, cost little and lasts a long time". That was the mark of successful engineering according to Mr. Kōnosuke Matsushita. You can find these on sale under $100  :)
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KC3EDP

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2020, 05:19:28 AM »

I know this will start a street fight but I have a Harbor Freight "Tailgater" 900w 2cycle genny that I've used for radio and various tasks for 10 years now. (It wasn't called the Tailgater when I bought mine but the same machine) I've scoped the output and it's a clean sine wave and it's dead on 60 cycles. Quieter than I expected, makes a low pitched Brrrrrrr as it runs. "Works well, cost little and lasts a long time". That was the mark of successful engineering according to Mr. Kōnosuke Matsushita. You can find these on sale under $100  :)

   Thanks! Does anyone know if the newer ones just as good?
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KC3EDP

W3XH

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2020, 09:59:15 AM »

i keep two deep cycle 100 amp/hr batteries on charge for radio use,  if necessary i can separate them and charge one while using the other. i have several generators from 10 kw to 800 watt, the small harbor freight generators do a nice job as a battery charger , wont break the bank and leave you with several options as far as running small items in your house, you can add solar to your power system as time and money become available.  bought two solar panels to add to my system and reduce need to run generator.  and you dont need a power supply just run off the 12 volt batteries.
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N8AUC

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2020, 07:47:46 PM »

Lots of “cheap” gen sets produce radiated noise. Note noise comes in two forms - radiated and conducted. Any power supply will not eliminate the former.

Your buddy might be well-intended but not well-informed.

Check out the ARRL’s review of generator noise as well as the reviews by CR et.al.

Based on experience, I'd avoid the inverter generators from Harbor Freight.
Tried to use one to power a rig at Field Day one year, and the RF noise was fierce.
S9 noise everywhere we looked. Shut the generator down, and the noise level dropped to S2.

Don't know if their non-inverter units are any better. But I do use a Generac 3500w non-inverter generator and that is RF quiet. The Honda EU series inverter models are also very RF quiet.

Like anything else, "ya pays ya money and takes ya chances". Just relaying my personal experiences, in the hope of helping someone else avoid expensive pitfalls.

73 de N8AUC
Eric
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W1MOW

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2020, 11:22:42 AM »

I have a Champion 3500 watt generator. On the "scope" it has a perfect sine wave, dead nuts on 60Hz, and we have not had any problems with RF noise. Had another Ham tell me how much quieter his Honda 2000 watt inverter was than mine. Using a sound meter app, tested them both, and found the Honda was only 1dB quieter.

Gary W1MOW
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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertram Russell (1935)

So not much has changed in almost 90 years!

K5LXP

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2020, 07:42:00 PM »

On the "scope" it has a perfect sine wave, dead nuts on 60Hz, and we have not had any problems with RF noise.

Unless it was something other than a sine wave (modified sine, square or significant distortion) you won't see the subtle distortions that comprise harmonic energy or spurs looking at the fundamental with a scope.  The right way to measure for RFI energy would be a low frequency spectrum analyzer, or a scope that can do Fourier analysis on that waveform. 

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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W1MOW

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2020, 08:12:41 AM »

On the "scope" it has a perfect sine wave, dead nuts on 60Hz, and we have not had any problems with RF noise.

Unless it was something other than a sine wave (modified sine, square or significant distortion) you won't see the subtle distortions that comprise harmonic energy or spurs looking at the fundamental with a scope.  The right way to measure for RFI energy would be a low frequency spectrum analyzer, or a scope that can do Fourier analysis on that waveform. 

Mark K5LXP


Albuquerque, NM

At the time we were looking for the quality of the sine wave produced compared to the much higher priced Honda, ($250 Vs $1000) and the audio sound levels.

We listened on each band from 160 to 6 meters for noise, and could not find a difference between them. At the time we did not have a spectrum  analyzer or a service monitor. When the weather gets a little warmer here we will check it out.
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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertram Russell (1935)

So not much has changed in almost 90 years!

K5LXP

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2020, 07:44:28 PM »

We listened on each band from 160 to 6 meters for noise, and could not find a difference between them.

If the end use is running HF radios, and the HF radios don't pick anything up as deployed then check the box.  Even if the generator had spurs or RFI outside of the amateur bands it doesn't matter, it's working for what you need. 

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM

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KB1GMX

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2020, 10:37:39 AM »

Last year I went out on a limb for FD backup power and got a
Champion 1250W unit.  Paid 159$ (new) for it.  Very little
plastic and very solid.

I found it quiet (at 50Ft away I had to check if it was running)
and electrically silent.   It ran lights, fans, and computer only
but was available if there was no sun via 10A battery charger.

Ran it at home for several hours with load to make sure it
was both good and get past any break in.  Ran well for that.
I pull it out for running small power tools in the yard as its
easier to move than 150Ft of heavy extensions.

Downside, no DC out, single 120V outlet.

Allison
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W3XH

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Re: Cheap generator with power supply
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2020, 08:43:22 PM »

i have no trouble wiht my harbor freight generator, to run radio, charge deep cycle batteries,  i would suggest you try them out, inexpensive to say the least, the trick is to buy the long term warranty, if ti does not work take it back and get another.  they honor the warranty no question asked.  some guys just automatically trad in their equipment before the expiration date every year and get new stuff.  mine works ok , charges batteries and runs about 6 hours on a  gallon of gas. and running the charger or charger off no difference in interference.

alex
w3xh
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