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Author Topic: Antenna vs building department  (Read 742 times)

K7MPZ

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Antenna vs building department
« on: January 02, 2020, 10:11:09 PM »

OMG. To help get my antenna past the architectural review board I asked the mayor for a letter of support, as I knew he was a supporter of disaster communications. I got the letter, but I also got a notice that I needed a building permit.  I spent 6 months struggling with the inspector, then he asked me in for a meeting. He explained his concern was that he had to enforce a requirement that my antenna be able to survive a 135mph wind. (think about that)  If my antenna were to break it would become a missile, potentially causing harm.  We agreed that I would build a mock-up of a quick-release mount for his approval. Since my antenna was a vertical, it was very easy to put a hinge pin at the bottom, and a push pin a foot above. Pull pin and tip over, he approved. End of story....nope, when I got the antenna I discovered there was no way to drill it, so I used the standard clamps, but I put big knobs on them. Now, we unscrew coax, turn each knob a half turn, and pull the antenna straight up and out. He was not concerned about the ham now standing 30' up on a roof in 135mph winds, I would become the missile!! So far it has been only a little whippy (!) in 40mph winds.
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Dale Fiorillo
Sequim, Wa
K7MPZ

KA3NXN

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2020, 04:07:06 AM »

do you need a permit to put up a TV antenna or satellite dish?
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K1VSK

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2020, 05:04:33 AM »

. He was not concerned about the ham now standing 30' up on a roof in 135mph winds, I would become the missile!!
Maybe he assumed you would take it down before the wind reached 135. Or that at 135, the antenna would be long gone before that. Or that no one would try to climb on his roof in  hurricane force winds.
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K7MPZ

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2020, 07:28:23 AM »

do you need a permit to put up a TV antenna or satellite dish?
Everyone is on cable, or, if they want satellite the homes are prewired for a dish. I quit the satellite company, but ugly dish remains.

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Dale Fiorillo
Sequim, Wa
K7MPZ

K7MPZ

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2020, 07:38:25 AM »

. He was not concerned about the ham now standing 30' up on a roof in 135mph winds, I would become the missile!!
Maybe he assumed you would take it down before the wind reached 135. Or that at 135, the antenna would be long gone before that. Or that no one would try to climb on his roof in  hurricane force winds.
:) all of the above. Actually, I think I would let it break and just replace the broken segment. It isn't going to leave the roof, if the massively braced brackets break the coax will retain it, and the interior of the antenna is a heavy copper tube that will bend and retain the rest.
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Dale Fiorillo
Sequim, Wa
K7MPZ

K7KB

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2020, 01:06:16 PM »

What model and type of antenna are you trying to put up? You did mention a vertical, but I’m curious exactly what model.

One of the biggest problems with most municipal Building & Planning departments is that many times they have no clue as to the regulations regarding Amateur Radio towers and antennas. The first thing they think of when you say you are putting up a tower and/or antenna is the standards in regards to Wireless Communications Facilities, i.e. Cell towers. TIA-222-H is the current structural standard when it comes to towers and antennas. I know there are some exemptions for Amateur towers in the standard, and I doubt very seriously your vertical would constitute much of a threat during a wind storm. You might check with a PE (Professional Engineer) familiar with Amateur Radio towers to see if they can check into it for you.
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K7MPZ

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2020, 01:48:29 PM »

It is a Comet GP9, and it was performing magnificently, until a month ago when random max swr readings started occurring. The co wants me to take it down and inspect the internals for bad solder joints. Well not with three inches of snow and gale force winds!
Dale
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Dale Fiorillo
Sequim, Wa
K7MPZ

K6JH

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2020, 03:42:10 PM »

The GP9 is an 18.5ft tall vertical. My recollection is it ships in three pieces, and the assembler has to plug those sections together. Years ago a friend of mine has had difficulties with an older Comet with these connections becomming intermittent. You might not have a choice but to take it down for repair or replacement.
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73
Jim K6JH

W9IQ

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2020, 03:49:20 PM »

The sections are joined with couplers that use set screws. Due to the constant flexing of the fiberglass radome, these are prone to failure. When you dismantle the antenna after the great thaw, either silver braze or weld these joints together.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

K7KB

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2020, 11:02:52 PM »

Dale: Well the wind rating for your GP9 is 100 mph. I guess I would ask your inspector to show you in the Building Code where it says your antenna must withstand a 135 mph wind gust. And for your information, here is an excerpt from your own building code for Sequim, WA. in regards to Wireless Communications Facilities:

18.61.140 Exempt facilities.
The following are exempt from this chapter:

A. FCC licensed amateur (ham) radio facilities;

B. Satellite earth stations, dishes and/or antennas used for private television reception not exceeding one meter in diameter;


So you can see that both Ham Radio and Satellite dishes are exempt from the strict regulations of a WCF. If they won't allow you to have your vertical, then they probably should also have any of your neighbors remove any SAT dishes around the area :)

BTW, I found this on YouTube that you might find interesting. Seems like the GP9 can take quite the beating:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHfckCYxJDM

John K7KB
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K7MPZ

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2020, 08:08:17 AM »

The inspector said 'facilities' did not say antenna.
I have been through all the building codes, and learned most cities just adopt the county codes, the counties adopt the states, and they the federal. So much easier, for them. They cant waste time reading every line.
Sequim is in a hurricane zone because of our proximity to the Pacific Ocean. However, after I got my permit their were two big changes. The zone boundary changed, but not enough, and Comet did raise their wind rating, but not enough!
I have watched that video many times, it made me really engineer a super strong antenna mount.
Oh, and I tried the 'there are no records of any windspeeds over 60mph' around here. Doesn't matter he says, the code is the code. I felt our compromise on having a quick-release mount was my fastest way out of his office, and the design was the one I would have used anyway!
My next house will be done waaay differently, but I'm still in his jurisdiction, and the same hoa.  Fore-warned is fore-armed 😀
Dale
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Dale Fiorillo
Sequim, Wa
K7MPZ

W8LV

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2020, 03:05:49 PM »

Have you had him show you any (and every) antenna installation that he has approved that meets this requirement?

If he can't,.or won't: Tell him that he'd better approve yours, right now, and Smile while he's doing it.

73 DE W8LV BILL


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K7MPZ

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2020, 03:11:37 PM »

Bill, I did not even think of that. Does he have to? I would think these permits are a matter of public record. I have seen quite a few antennas that in no way would survive 135mph winds.
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Dale Fiorillo
Sequim, Wa
K7MPZ

K7KB

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2020, 09:16:17 AM »

Dale: If he is not classifying your structure as a antenna, I would ask him exactly what kind of structure he is defining? Make him give you the details of what kind of facility he has placed your vertical.

John K7KB
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K7MPZ

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Re: Antenna vs building department
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2020, 10:37:13 AM »

John, I got an approved permit some time ago, based on my quick-release
design.  I had your last questions on my list for the face to face, along with many more. The real problem is that my circumstances were governed by the city building codes, which were out of date. The National codes get adopted enmass by states, then each county, finally each city. Very few have the personnel to read every single rule. The sections he was applying to me had actually been deleted, I had even printed the new rules, and exemptions, but until the state and county and city adopted them there was nothing he could do. I think by allowing me to use a quick release he was being as flexible as he could. Any more arguments from me might have caused more problems.
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Dale Fiorillo
Sequim, Wa
K7MPZ
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