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Author Topic: Another idea to pick apart for a hidden antenna.  (Read 792 times)

KB8VUL

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Another idea to pick apart for a hidden antenna.
« on: February 03, 2020, 08:16:37 PM »

I was talking to a buddy the other day that is a bit of an antenna nut.  He's the guy that sits for fun modeling stuff and thinking up antenna designs that he builds, plays with and then gets bored with and goes on to another design to be worked on.

So he had an idea that seemed genius as a hidden antenna.
Taking a small satellite dish, and tying the center conductor of the LNA to the metal of the dish body, then driving the feed cable of the dish mounted on the eave of a house at the ground with a matching network and laying radials in the ground.  Effectively making the cable to the dish a radiator, and the dish becoming a capacitance hat. 

We didn't go into alot of detail, but the basic premise is there and would seems to be a workable solution to a hidden antenna in plain site. 
Of course, the dishes are covered under the whatever TV receiver law that allows them basically anywhere and it just looks like a standard satellite dish with a cable running down the side of a house connected to it.

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ONAIR

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Re: Another idea to pick apart for a hidden antenna.
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2020, 09:53:41 PM »

I was talking to a buddy the other day that is a bit of an antenna nut.  He's the guy that sits for fun modeling stuff and thinking up antenna designs that he builds, plays with and then gets bored with and goes on to another design to be worked on.

So he had an idea that seemed genius as a hidden antenna.
Taking a small satellite dish, and tying the center conductor of the LNA to the metal of the dish body, then driving the feed cable of the dish mounted on the eave of a house at the ground with a matching network and laying radials in the ground.  Effectively making the cable to the dish a radiator, and the dish becoming a capacitance hat. 

We didn't go into alot of detail, but the basic premise is there and would seems to be a workable solution to a hidden antenna in plain site. 
Of course, the dishes are covered under the whatever TV receiver law that allows them basically anywhere and it just looks like a standard satellite dish with a cable running down the side of a house connected to it.
Heard of many HOA hams who mount a dish on their roof, with the "cable" that feeds it actually being an end fed!
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K1VSK

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Re: Another idea to pick apart for a hidden antenna.
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2020, 06:13:44 AM »

You might want to check as it’s my understanding HOAs generally limit locating dish antennas to ground mounting and preclude mounting on/ adjacent to a roof
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W1VT

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Re: Another idea to pick apart for a hidden antenna.
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2020, 07:47:19 AM »

You may be able to argue for an exemption if the ground mounting locations are blocked by trees. 

My next door neighbor has her dish mounted on her roof to get over the trees on the other side of the road.
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W6QW

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Re: Another idea to pick apart for a hidden antenna.
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2020, 08:27:06 AM »

If you are within an over-the-air TV coverage area, you can mount a OTA TV antenna as high as 12 feet above your roof line, pursuant to FCC 47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000 (https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule).  You may want to go to the FCC site to understand your rights under that rule.  That said, you could erect a 10 to 12 ft mast, plant a dummy TV antenna at the top, and use conductive guy wires to 'stabilize' the mast.  Add some counterpoise wires, possibly laying on the roof, add an automatic antenna tuner at the base and you have yourself a pretty good radiator for HF.

Per the FCC rule, HOAs can not restrict the antenna placement except for some specific reasons.  This is a far superior solution to trying to use the coaxial shield to a satellite dish as a radiator.  Of course, this would not work if you are in a condo situation.
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K4FMH

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Re: Another idea to pick apart for a hidden antenna.
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2020, 09:05:07 AM »

Don,

You are oh-so correct. Yet, many HOA Board members (including all of my own) are totally unaware of OTARD. It came up with my next door neighbot, a Board member, told me casually that another neighbor had chastised him for being able to "see" his DirecTV dish over a brick wall as she exited the neighborhood. He has it mounted on a very short steel mast in cement on the ground, as I do just 1- feet or so away on the other side of the brick wall. He had never heard of OTARD but had already paid someone to come out and lower his dish. He was flabbergasted when I sent him the link to OTARD as you have in your post.

73,

Frank
K4FMH


If you are within an over-the-air TV coverage area, you can mount a OTA TV antenna as high as 12 feet above your roof line, pursuant to FCC 47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000 (https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule).  You may want to go to the FCC site to understand your rights under that rule.  That said, you could erect a 10 to 12 ft mast, plant a dummy TV antenna at the top, and use conductive guy wires to 'stabilize' the mast.  Add some counterpoise wires, possibly laying on the roof, add an automatic antenna tuner at the base and you have yourself a pretty good radiator for HF.

Per the FCC rule, HOAs can not restrict the antenna placement except for some specific reasons.  This is a far superior solution to trying to use the coaxial shield to a satellite dish as a radiator.  Of course, this would not work if you are in a condo situation.
If you are within an over-the-air TV coverage area, you can mount a OTA TV antenna as high as 12 feet above your roof line, pursuant to FCC 47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000 (https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule).  You may want to go to the FCC site to understand your rights under that rule.  That said, you could erect a 10 to 12 ft mast, plant a dummy TV antenna at the top, and use conductive guy wires to 'stabilize' the mast.  Add some counterpoise wires, possibly laying on the roof, add an automatic antenna tuner at the base and you have yourself a pretty good radiator for HF.

Per the FCC rule, HOAs can not restrict the antenna placement except for some specific reasons.  This is a far superior solution to trying to use the coaxial shield to a satellite dish as a radiator.  Of course, this would not work if you are in a condo situation.
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K3LI

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Re: Another idea to pick apart for a hidden antenna.
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2020, 08:00:36 AM »

As far as HOAs go.  Federal law allows for the type of dish in question to be mounted for best reception, period. Key word here is "best reception".   If that happens to be on your roof or chimney, that is where you can mount it.  Just back it up with a letter from a "expert" installer. Most CCRs if seen are wrong anyway.  Everyone I have seen limiting antennas refers to a dish no larger than 3 feet.   FCC says 1.3 meters.
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