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Author Topic: Help narrowing HF antenna options  (Read 858 times)

K5IDL

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Help narrowing HF antenna options
« on: February 25, 2020, 02:37:24 PM »

I live in an HOA area. Flagpoles up to 20' are allowed but that is an expensive option since I am just starting out on HF and shopping for my first rig. It is something I would give some consideration to in the future, but even though allowed I don't have a good place for one (small front yard). I've also read that magnetic loops are an option but are a bit expensive. I've read posts and a lot of material on various other stealth approaches but I don't feel like I know enough to narrow down where to actually start. I don't even have a clear idea of which HF bands I would use the most. I'm located in North Texas and mostly want to work HF during the day. First I want to describe a bit of my situation and then below all that is my specific question.

I have an attic with a coax run to a J-pole for VHF/UHF. The cable run can accommodate one, maybe even two more, coax to the attic on my 2 story house. The attic contains 2 HVAC units, 2 hot water heaters and a lot of metallic wrapped ducting. It's fairly large but with the equipment and wood beams/rafters there isn't a lot of clear space.

My garage is about 84' linear with a 9' ceiling. The only thing above it is roofing.

I have an 8' fence with about 75' linear feet. There is one mature live oak in the back yard. Neighbor  has good visibility into my yard. But making something look decorative would help as long as it wasn't much above the fence line.

For someone starting out, which HF bands are best to focus on? And for those bands what is a good starter antenna that I could put up? I'm hoping I can put an antenna up that would work at least a couple of different bands, with an antenna tuner if needed. I think my initial goal should be to get an antenna setup I can have some early success with and then add/replace it as I gain experience.

Note: my vanity call sign was issued overnight by the FCC, it hasn't been picked up by QRZ yet in case you're curious. Formerly KI5HZV.
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K7AAT

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2020, 03:13:58 PM »


My opinion - since you intend daytime operations.....at minimum I would suggest a simple 20M wire dipole may serve you well.... For SSB, CW, and particularly for digital operations.  With an overall length of less than 33'  you should be able to put it in your attic.....or possibly outside too.   One more thing....you most likely should be using RG-8X,    Not RG-8   To your attic if coax run access is minimal.  Good luck!
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K5IDL

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2020, 03:34:20 PM »

Thank you! I did run RG8x to the attic for my J-pole. I should have said something about the attic dimensions. The roof on the house is complex which makes much of the attic space in the house inaccessible. The part with flooring measures around 13’ in one direction and 11’ in the other. Would looping the dipole around be workable, maybe in a U shape?
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W0CKI

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2020, 03:42:19 PM »

A 20 meter dipole would be a good start and looping it would be OK. Buy a transceiver that has a built in tuner. A good choice would be an Icom 7300 or other similar rigs.
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K5IDL

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2020, 04:18:50 PM »

Thank you. I narrowed down my transceiver to either a FT-991a or the IC-7300 and after digging into each of them further I have the 7300 at the top of my list. We have a ham fest coming up in a couple of weeks and I have a bit of hope one of the local shops might have them on sale there. Fingers crossed.
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W0CKI

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2020, 04:27:26 PM »

Also try HRO. They are very competitive.
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K5IDL

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2020, 04:47:46 PM »

Yes, HRO is one of our local stores. I’ve been a frequent customer since starting this hobby. :)
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K0UA

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2020, 05:27:52 PM »

A little more info for you on the "bands".   160 and 80 meters, useless in the daytime, so no need to worry about them at all. 30 meters, CW and Digital only, works in the daytime pretty well, and fairly well at night also. .  40 meters has regional coverage during the day with a "skip zone" or hole centered on your location of a few hundred miles but overall all coverage, not a lot of what you would call DX during the day. 40 is more DX at night and evenings.  20 meters works well during the daytime for DX, again with a "skip zone" usually a bigger skip zone than 40, but the DX is better by far during the day.  In these sunspot times  20 fades out at night.  During higher sunspots it can stay open all night.  17 is a bit spotty now, but open during the day, especially for digital, Same for 15 meters.  12 and 10 are not open much during our sunspot times.  They will be hotter with E skip during the summer, and of course when the sunspots come back they will be hot. Pretty cool right now though.

So. 20 meters is your "money band" right now.  Best bet for all modes during the day. Good news is the smaller antenna size. 33 feet for a dipole total length, and 16.5 feet for a vertical (need radials of course). 

7300 is an excellent radio.  I have two of them as well as a 7610 and a Yaesu 891 in the truck.
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73  James K0UA

K5IDL

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2020, 06:05:29 PM »

Thanks James for the band break down. Extremely helpful to this new guy.
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K7AAT

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2020, 06:15:45 PM »

I will second the suggestion you get the Icom.  I have had both.....and for HF work the Icom 7300 is vastly superior in all respects.   I hated the convoluted menu system in the FT991.  Pretty good radio otherwise, but not as good as the Icom.   Bought a dual band FTM-100 to cover the VHF/UHF I lost when selling the Yaesu.
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K0UA

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2020, 07:49:56 PM »

Thanks James for the band break down. Extremely helpful to this new guy.

Happy to help.  If you have any specific questions either PM me here or send me an email and I would be happy to talk to you on the phone if you like.  Been licensed for 49 years. Still pretty active.  My main interest right now is chasing DX, but I have "done it all" through the years.  Well, no moon bounce but I am not opposed to it. :)  Good luck on your journey in the hobby.
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73  James K0UA

K2PMC

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2020, 09:50:34 PM »

Depending on the height of your oak tree, you may be able to put it to good use.  A 40M vertical would be about 33' long.  If the tree is that tall you could use #20 or smaller wire which would be almost invisible.  If you can keep your radials off the ground, all you would need is 2 radials.  This would give you a full sized antenna for 40M which would be much better than an attic antenna or mag loop.  Of course, you could scale that to 20M if height is a problem.  40M is a better option as the band is open all day. 
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W8LV

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2020, 01:55:39 AM »

Dipole in the attic.

Loop in the attic to autotuner. The area above garage is in what dimensions?

Caulked in Vertical, if you "control" that area.


73 DE W8LV Bill

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NN2X

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2020, 02:39:47 AM »

If you have the room on the Oak tree, or any place, I used a 1/2 dipole but configured Vertically. I purchased paint pole at Lowes, which support the 33ft vertically (This worked better for my end than Horizontal Dipole. (I could not get the dipole high enough for the horizontal to work effectively 

I used the Paint pole supported 33ft...(UP). I found having the dipole vertical had great results..(20 Meters)

If you have the funds, and the attic can support it, than K4KIO Hex beam...That is 11ft in radius. That will really work...You can use a TV rotor from Radio shack...(Or something similar (It costs 70$ new). Hex Beam mono band, can cost as low as $300

But Dipole, loop, in the Attic will work, You will have success with FT8, FT4, and Olivia...SSB domestically should work well, especially domestic during the day time.

Have fun! And the ICOM 7300, you can't go wrong...

C U on the bands, NN2X, Tom

 
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K5IDL

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Re: Help narrowing HF antenna options
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2020, 03:53:56 AM »

Thanks for the additional input, it is really helpful. I have a follow up question about the attic approach.

Can the dipole wire have some contact with the wood rafters without killing performance? There might be a few places where crossing it on top of a 2x4 would be easiest. If not how would I insulate it? E.g. would a few turns of electrical tape over the area be sufficient? I’ve seen some dipoles that have bare wire (copper hard wire I think) and others that seem to use an insulated wire.

In other places I would suspend the wire from the rafter/wood and I imagine items like a cable tie or nylon string would be used for that without hurting performance.

I think I am going to stick with an attic solution initially because I have an easy way to add another coax to the attic. My shack is at the opposite end of the house from the back yard and a long run of coax outside the home would probably be the most practical way to reach it. Of course it is an option down the road and I might end up with more than 2 antennas. ;) I’m sure I will feel the pull of improving my antennas.
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