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Author Topic: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!  (Read 659 times)

K7JQ

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Re: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2020, 07:30:11 AM »

Well if it's all about numbers at any cost, there is a rule that is better than Rule No. 1.

That Rule is that FT-8 Rules compared to CW.

Whether FT8 is "better" than CW is a matter of personal preference. I have no experience with FT8 contesting, so can't compare the two. I've tried FT8 in normal operation, and can only do it for about 15 minutes before I'm bored. Then again, probably being "old school" (61 years as a ham), it just seems to be a computer-talking-to-a-computer mode. Once you double click on a station, the rest is automatic. But I guess there's some expertise in knowing where to place your signal, etc. At least with CW, you have to use your noggin to decode the exchange, and with SSB you have to pick out voices through the crowd, using your ears. To me, more of a challenge. To others, maybe FT8 is more of a challenge.

Again, to each his/her own. Whatever makes you happy, do it. My point was to respond to N4OI's original post that when using low power and compromised HOA antennas, CW will get you more contest QSO's than SSB. FT8 wasn't considered in his post.

73 and stay safe,

Bob K7JQ
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K0UA

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Re: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2020, 05:00:25 PM »

Well if it's all about numbers at any cost, there is a rule that is better than Rule No. 1.

That Rule is that FT-8 Rules compared to CW.

Whether FT8 is "better" than CW is a matter of personal preference. I have no experience with FT8 contesting, so can't compare the two. I've tried FT8 in normal operation, and can only do it for about 15 minutes before I'm bored. Then again, probably being "old school" (61 years as a ham), it just seems to be a computer-talking-to-a-computer mode. Once you double click on a station, the rest is automatic. But I guess there's some expertise in knowing where to place your signal, etc. At least with CW, you have to use your noggin to decode the exchange, and with SSB you have to pick out voices through the crowd, using your ears. To me, more of a challenge. To others, maybe FT8 is more of a challenge.

Again, to each his/her own. Whatever makes you happy, do it. My point was to respond to N4OI's original post that when using low power and compromised HOA antennas, CW will get you more contest QSO's than SSB. FT8 wasn't considered in his post.

73 and stay safe,

Bob K7JQ

CW will beat straight FT8 in a contest for Q's per hour if the CW guy is any good. Fox and Hound is a different story. FT4 and CW are pretty close in run rate, but FT4 wont go as deep in the noise as FT8 though.  Still pretty good and probably slightly better than CW for most people.  But CW ability varies so much person to person. Some guys are really really good. I am not. ;)
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73  James K0UA

K9IUQ

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Re: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2020, 05:58:47 AM »

But CW ability varies so much person to person. Some guys are really really good. I am not. ;)

CW requires skill that many hams lack. FT8 Requires a computer with a operator than can click a mouse button. Believe it or Not when I was doing FT8, I had Boomer make a few FT8 Q's for me. Admittedly Boomer is a smart dog but it was trivial to put the mouse on the floor and have him swat it with his paw. Like me he quickly tired of FT8....  ;) :)  Like I said he IS a Smart Dog.

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 06:02:52 AM by K9IUQ »
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K0UA

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Re: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2020, 09:16:02 AM »

But CW ability varies so much person to person. Some guys are really really good. I am not. ;)

CW requires skill that many hams lack. FT8 Requires a computer with a operator than can click a mouse button. Believe it or Not when I was doing FT8, I had Boomer make a few FT8 Q's for me. Admittedly Boomer is a smart dog but it was trivial to put the mouse on the floor and have him swat it with his paw. Like me he quickly tired of FT8....  ;) :)  Like I said he IS a Smart Dog.

Stan K9IUQ

But can he operate Fox and Hound?  You would think by judging by his species he would have an advantage, but I say F&H operation, since it is more complicated by putting callers in a que might be beyond his abilities. Of course I don't really know boomer and can't be sure of his capabilities. :)
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73  James K0UA

K7JQ

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Re: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2020, 12:04:48 PM »

You can't blame many hams for lacking CW skills, as the FCC totally eliminated the Morse code  requirement thirteen years ago. Whereas I was weaned on CW at age 13 in 1959, I can run contest stations at 35+ WPM, limited only by the lag time between instantly decoding in my head and typing it into the contest program...I hunt-and-peck :). However, I have no idea about how to handle this newfangled Fox and Hound stuff. Tough to teach this old dog new tricks. Each mode has its' own, per Liam Neeson, "very special set of skills" ;D.

73 and stay safe,
Bob K7JQ
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K0UA

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Re: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2020, 12:30:54 PM »

You can't blame many hams for lacking CW skills, as the FCC totally eliminated the Morse code  requirement thirteen years ago. Whereas I was weaned on CW at age 13 in 1959, I can run contest stations at 35+ WPM, limited only by the lag time between instantly decoding in my head and typing it into the contest program...I hunt-and-peck :). However, I have no idea about how to handle this newfangled Fox and Hound stuff. Tough to teach this old dog new tricks. Each mode has its' own, per Liam Neeson, "very special set of skills" ;D.

73 and stay safe,
Bob K7JQ

Well, you have to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run.  To operate and understand Fox and Hound, you have to operate and understand FT8 operation first. Fox and Hound would be very difficult for Stan's pooch. The key presses alone for getting your transmitter on the right audio frequency would likely throw him...But a human can figure it all out fairly easy. But Stan is right, it doesn't take the skillbuilding work that operating a contest at 35 wpm on CW does. All operating Fox and Hound and working DX stations require is a desire to do it and maybe a little help and guidance for those that don't learn by reading a dry text manual. It is amazing though during a "juicy" DX pileup on Fox and Hound, that seem to have never made any attempt to read the manual, but are still in there trying their best to "get him".  They never succeed of course, but I guess they have fun or frustration or something. :)
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73  James K0UA

K7JQ

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Re: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2020, 12:47:42 PM »

You can't blame many hams for lacking CW skills, as the FCC totally eliminated the Morse code  requirement thirteen years ago. Whereas I was weaned on CW at age 13 in 1959, I can run contest stations at 35+ WPM, limited only by the lag time between instantly decoding in my head and typing it into the contest program...I hunt-and-peck :). However, I have no idea about how to handle this newfangled Fox and Hound stuff. Tough to teach this old dog new tricks. Each mode has its' own, per Liam Neeson, "very special set of skills" ;D.

73 and stay safe,
Bob K7JQ

Well, you have to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run.  To operate and understand Fox and Hound, you have to operate and understand FT8 operation first. Fox and Hound would be very difficult for Stan's pooch. The key presses alone for getting your transmitter on the right audio frequency would likely throw him...But a human can figure it all out fairly easy. But Stan is right, it doesn't take the skillbuilding work that operating a contest at 35 wpm on CW does. All operating Fox and Hound and working DX stations require is a desire to do it and maybe a little help and guidance for those that don't learn by reading a dry text manual. It is amazing though during a "juicy" DX pileup on Fox and Hound, that seem to have never made any attempt to read the manual, but are still in there trying their best to "get him".  They never succeed of course, but I guess they have fun or frustration or something. :)

What? There's a manual? What's a manual? ;D ;D ;D. Getting a little wack-o from being sequestered in my house for the last three weeks :o.
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K0UA

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Re: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2020, 03:51:40 PM »

You can't blame many hams for lacking CW skills, as the FCC totally eliminated the Morse code  requirement thirteen years ago. Whereas I was weaned on CW at age 13 in 1959, I can run contest stations at 35+ WPM, limited only by the lag time between instantly decoding in my head and typing it into the contest program...I hunt-and-peck :). However, I have no idea about how to handle this newfangled Fox and Hound stuff. Tough to teach this old dog new tricks. Each mode has its' own, per Liam Neeson, "very special set of skills" ;D.

73 and stay safe,
Bob K7JQ

Well, you have to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run.  To operate and understand Fox and Hound, you have to operate and understand FT8 operation first. Fox and Hound would be very difficult for Stan's pooch. The key presses alone for getting your transmitter on the right audio frequency would likely throw him...But a human can figure it all out fairly easy. But Stan is right, it doesn't take the skillbuilding work that operating a contest at 35 wpm on CW does. All operating Fox and Hound and working DX stations require is a desire to do it and maybe a little help and guidance for those that don't learn by reading a dry text manual. It is amazing though during a "juicy" DX pileup on Fox and Hound, that seem to have never made any attempt to read the manual, but are still in there trying their best to "get him".  They never succeed of course, but I guess they have fun or frustration or something. :)

What? There's a manual? What's a manual? ;D ;D ;D. Getting a little wack-o from being sequestered in my house for the last three weeks :o.

Oh, yeah...

https://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/FT8_DXpedition_Mode.pdf

Now during the lockdown, and the fact I don't think there are any DXpeditions working would be a good time to brush up on your "hounding"
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73  James K0UA

K9IUQ

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Re: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2020, 04:13:17 PM »



But can he operate Fox and Hound?  You would think by judging by his species he would have an advantage,

Of course I don't really know boomer and can't be sure of his capabilities. :)

I asked Boomer and got a WOOF WOOF and a tail wagging. I guess that means Yes. Unfortunately his Master no longer has FT8 running on his computer.

I know Boomers Capabilities and having had many many dogs in my life he is the smartest. I have had 4 German Shepherds, two Labs, one Chinese Shar-Pei (very smart) 1 English Bulldog (dumb but extremely lovable and affectionate) also several dogs of unknown breeding. I have enjoyed them all but Boomer (Australian Shepherd) is easily the smartest.

If I was a more patient owner Boomer would already have a Techie License talking on his own Baofeng on 2 mtrs...  ;)

Stan K9IUQ

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K1FBI

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Re: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2020, 04:51:28 PM »

I guess some of the old dinosaurs were right after all. This hobby really is going to the dogs. :o
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K7JQ

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Re: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2020, 07:54:27 PM »

James,

Tnx! Gonna take a look and see if I  can understand it. Have to brush up on FT8...haven't worked it in a couple months. Don't know if it's gonna stick with me and keep my interest. This weekend is the JIDX (Japan) CW contest. Great for us guys on the west coast.

73, Bob K7JQ
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K0UA

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Re: No. 1 Rule for Success With Compromised Antenna: CW!
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2020, 08:47:57 PM »

James,

Tnx! Gonna take a look and see if I  can understand it. Have to brush up on FT8...haven't worked it in a couple months. Don't know if it's gonna stick with me and keep my interest. This weekend is the JIDX (Japan) CW contest. Great for us guys on the west coast.

73, Bob K7JQ

There is quite a bit more to the "strategy" and winning than just the instructions.  Like anything else. But the instructions will get you going and you won't look silly like so many of the guys do.
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73  James K0UA
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