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Author Topic: A different version of the IC7300 or FTDX3000 question - no contesting  (Read 1057 times)

W6SOX

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Hi - I know this question has been discussed many times, and i have read everything I could find.  However, my use case is a bit different than many other folks whose opinions I've read.
I currently have a Yaesu FT-857D.  Performance on HF has been less than stellar, especially with weak signals in a lot of noise. After surveying the options, I think I've got it narrowed down to these two radios, which are of course quite different.  Currently the 7300 can be had for under $900 and the 3000 is going for about $1500.

I don't do any contesting or any CW.  I'm interested in DX but not in any kind of competitive way - I'm just interested in being able to contact folks far away when I can.  My use is mostly voice but also digital. My focus is kind of in the preparedness direction - not necessarily portable (and I've already got the 857 for that).  This will be for desktop/base use and will be my primary radio.  (I'll keep the 857D for VHF/UHF and for the occasional portable use)

I suspect the FTDX3000 is more than I need - but I'm a bit hesitant with the 7300 due to the minimal connectors available, which feels like it could be limiting in the future.  I like that all the I/O options on the FTDX3000 provide a lot of expandability in the future.  I also have some Yaesu accessories - but probably not enough to be a deciding factor. I'm pretty familiar with the Yaesu approach to menus, so I'm not too put off by that, though the UI on the 7300 does seem a lot nicer.  (I use rig control software like HRD sometimes - but not all the time).

I'd appreciate any thoughts on whether one of these seems like the better choice for someone who is not doing any contesting, with a focus on voice and digital.

Thank you!
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G4AON

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Most of us suffer from local noise, expecting the DSP noise reduction in any radio to fix the problem is an uphill struggle.

There are options, such as a separate RX antenna, that can help. Examples are a rotatable active loop antenna. These auxiliary antennas require a radio with additional connections, some radios have easier to integrate connections to for a “system”.

I use an Elecraft K3 as my main radio, that has a lot of integration available. Not got experience of either radio mentioned, although a friend recently bought a 3000 and preferred it to the very popular 7300.

73 Dave
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K0UA

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Quote
but I'm a bit hesitant with the 7300 due to the minimal connectors available, which feels like it could be limiting in the future.

I am having trouble imagining what connections you would want.  Help me out here.  I have two 7300's and a 7610.

In my opinion the 7300 is the best value in amateur radio today.  By that I mean the value per dollar ratio is the highest.  I am NOT saying the 7300 is the best radio in amateur radio, I am saying it is the best value.
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73  James K0UA

W6SOX

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Thank you both for the replies.
What kind of connections -- multiple antennas for one, including one that can be configured as receive-only (per reply by G4AON).  Also IF Out and RX out - if I'm understanding this right, this would allow setting up an SDR capability in addition.  My understanding may be wrong here - but I thought from what I read, with the 7300, you have the in-built capabilities since it's an SDR, but you can't really take that to a computer (for example) to have a larger display or additional capabilities.  The way I read this, the 7300 has a lot of capability - but you can't really expand beyond what is there.   Am I correct?
No argument on the feature/dollar - clearly the 7300 is a great value.
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W6SOX

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Just to add on to my previous posts - I'm not someone who buys and sells equipment a lot. I've had my 857D for 13 years.  It's likely I'll keep the next purchase pretty long as well.  Due to that, I want to purchase something that I'm less likely to outgrow , to the extent one can predict. I guess the question is whether likely expansion or upgrades are dependent on my transceiver choice now.
On the one hand, I'm thinking the 3000 offers ways to interconnect other equipment in the future via IF out, Rx Out, etc.  On the other hand, the 7300 is so reasonable, that I'll have more money left for those kinds of options.

I guess I'm just interested in any and all opinions, with the caveat that neither CW nor contesting is ever gonna be a concern.  A lot of discussions seem to be related to pulling signals out of pileups and such - that isn't in my equation.
Thanks again,
Michael KB1PIE
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 11:00:34 AM by KB1PIE »
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N5CM

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If I may muddy the water a bit, take a look at the Kenwood TS-590SG for the connections you're after.

I'll admit to being a CW-mostly operator, but I use the RX-only antenna connector on my 590SG for 160 meters, and I use one of the two two transceive antenna connectors for 6 meters and the other for HF.

I bought a "B-stock" 590SG, which is a factory refurbished model with a full-year warranty.  It was a few bucks less than a brand new one, and I've been very pleased with it.  And yes, it comes with a microphone, which I use once in a while. :)
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W1VT

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Given a choice, at the bottom of any sunspot cycle, I'd rather have a 4 el 20M Yagi at 100 feet with any radio in the $1000 price class than *any* radio with *any* antenna below 30 feet, assuming both are on flat terrain for a fair comparison.  A 10 watt radio can be a lot of fun with a big antenna.

Zak W1VT
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K1VSK

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Arguably, with any given antenna, the entry-level radios suffice for most people regardless of antenna. But having a high end radio can sometimes offset the limitations of a small/low antenna. The converse not always true.
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K0UA

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You can send IF out thru the USB port if you desire, you can also us N1MM+ contest software over the USB to display a waterfall and spectrum scope over the USB virtual serial port, You can buy a simple easy to install adaptor to bring the receiver connection out to the back panel for a way to have a receive only antenna connection port which you use a simple jumper when you want to use the same antenna for receive and transmit. $39

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/inr-rx7300

If you are interested in the n1mm+ spectrum and waterfall, I can take a picture and post it here from the 7300.
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73  James K0UA

W6SOX

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KOUA - thanks for all those suggestions.  Would love to see picture of spectrum and waterfall using N1MM+.
I looked at the rx7300 - but it seems like you give up the interface to an external tuner (I use an LDG tuner).  Unless I cut an opening in the radio chassis to bring either the native connector or the Rx7300 jacks out which of course I could do - but guessing that would invalidate warranty. 

N5CM - I did look at the Kenwood - don't remember why I ruled it out - but I'll look again.

w1VT - ummm, while I appreciate the thinking not sure where that idea came from as I'm not deciding between spending money on a radio or an antenna.  Also - there is zero chance of my having anything at 100 feet where I live.
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K0UA

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Re: A different version of the IC7300 or FTDX3000 question - no contesting
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2020, 04:32:08 PM »

the LDG tuners don't use the 4 pin molex bcd band data out of the ICOM.  Only some Icom tuners. It is pretty much legacy. I use and LDG tuner with my 7300 when needed and have no use for that molex.

Look at this link for discussion and picture of the spectrum and waterfall on the 2nd page

https://www.eham.net/community/smf/index.php/topic,128578.0.html
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73  James K0UA

K6BRN

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Re: A different version of the IC7300 or FTDX3000 question - no contesting
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2020, 09:55:49 PM »

Michael (KB1PIE):

If you're a"prepper", the two most important aspects of the radio are:  1.  Does it work well enough?, 2. Is it easy to simply jump in and use after not using it at all for a while?

The IC-7300 meets both criteria - the FTDX-3000 meets #1 very well but is much less intuitive to use.  I have two of the FTDX-3000s (in use at different QTHs) and sometimes use a friend's IC-7300.  Both are excellent radios - but quite different.

You sized them up very weil in your first post and are right on regarding FTDX-3000 versatility.  It is far more flexible and has better NR than the IC-7300.  It's also much harder to use well, until you become very familiar with some of it's more obtuse controls and menus.  And if you don't use it for a while - well you'll likely forget some of its quirks and hidden capabilities (like the inverted contour control setting - VERY useful, not at ALL obvious).

Yes, it has a plethora of I.O. that can be VERY useful.  I have two of these radios.  The RX only port is hooked up to an Icom IC-R75 HF/6M receiver to give dual receive capability which I use to chase SSB contacts while working FT8 digital.  This even works cross-band in some cases.  I use the 9 MHz IF output to feed an SDRplay digital receiver that can handle a 3rd HF signal if I like, but I usually use it as a super-versatile wideband waterfall display that easily covers all of most bands and can zoom in on a narroe segment in a separate window.  The FTDX-3000 microtuner I/O can be used to insert any RX small signal processing you like between the antenna/attenuator bank and receiver front end (TRANSVERTER, anyone?). But I use them for (you guessed it) preselection of frequencies for 20M to 160M using the optional Yaesu microtuner units, and they do their job well (useful in field day like conditions with lots of adjacent transmitters - OR working 160M - relatively- near a commercial AM radio transmitter).  The three antenna ports are GREAT!  I use one to drive my linear amp and main antenna (Mosley TA-33-MW), one to drive my 60M antenna directly (100W EIRP max, by regulation) and one to drive my 6M antenna.  Very, Very handy - minimizes external switching.  One of the three RF I/O (antenna) ports can be rigged to be RX only while another is set for TX, with automatic switching, if you'd like to use separate RX (say a Beverage) and TX antennas, which some operators love to do.

The pseudo-IF output of the IC-7300, which about the only accessory signal I/O it offers, is narrowband and of very limited use in IMHO.  And of course the IC-7300 lacks all of the other signal I/O I mention for the FTDX-3000.  But it DOES have a nice memory card slot that can store a variety of things - including RX audio of extended length. 

When travelling, I'd rather bring an IC-7300 - compact and easy to use, though in reality, I travel with an FT-991 - because its also compact and adds all-mode VHF and UHF.  But that's a personal preference.  My buddy travels with an IC-7300 and EFHW-8010-2K and is a very happy camper.

So - pure capability and versatility - get the FTDX-3000 - very much a "base station" radio.

Easy to use, works well and compact - go for the IC-7300, hands down.

Both are excellent radios.  But for the occasional or casual user, I'd recommend the simpler IC-7300, every time.

Have fun and stay safe!

Brian - K6BRN
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 10:16:31 PM by K6BRN »
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K0UA

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Re: A different version of the IC7300 or FTDX3000 question - no contesting
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2020, 07:21:31 AM »

Note to OP.  While I have two 7300's I also have a 7610.  Why?  Well when it comes to working in a pile up either SSB or CW the 7610 with its two receivers and for CW its Audio Peaking Filter is just better. Not that the 7300's are not good, or even great, but teh 7610 offers a level of performance above. Of course the receive antenna port, and all the other little things add up too.  BUT you said none of those things mattered to you. Your not a DXer or a Contester. At least not now.  But there is the little matter of cost. A 7300 and the money saved to buy a nice antenna system will beat the pants right off of a 7610 or Ftdx 3000 with a crappy antenna system.  Again, the 7300 is the best value in modern radios today, but it is not the best modern radio available today.  But it ain't far behind.  :)
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73  James K0UA

K7JQ

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Re: A different version of the IC7300 or FTDX3000 question - no contesting
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2020, 02:23:42 PM »

If you're REALLY gonna use those I/O features, then it's the FTDX-3000. Otherwise, especially for the $600 difference, the 7300 seems a no-brainer for the type of operating you describe. As K0UA says, put the difference into an better antenna.

I believe many hams totally over-buy a radio for their very casual operating needs. Why? Maybe bragging rights, they like to have a big box with lots of knobs and buttons, or just think that spending more money will get them proportionately better performance. Not necessarily true. I saw a forum post where a guy bought a TS-890, with the intention of only doing FT8! Emphatically no other interest. To each his/her own ;).

Personally, in 61 years as a ham, I've had many upper tier radios. But now, as a 90% contester, I use two 7300's for SO2R operating. IMO, their overall performance is right up there, or better, with the best I've had in the past. The ergonomics and features were well thought out by the Icom engineers.

Whatever you decide on, good luck and enjoy the hobby!

73 and stay safe,  Bob K7JQ
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W6SOX

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Re: A different version of the IC7300 or FTDX3000 question - no contesting
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2020, 12:11:16 PM »

First of all - Bob, Brian, James - those were all incredibly helpful replies - thank you so much.  This has really helped me crystallize what I need to decide.

Here's how I'm seeing it now - if I want to use a receive-only antenna and an external SDR, I'll need more equipment for the 7300. 
The "better" (safer?  more efficient?) way would be something like the DXE- RTR-2 for receive only and a PTRX-7300 for SDR.  If I went that way, I might as well go for the DX3000 as I'll have eaten up most of the cost difference.

Or - I could just use an RX7300 and a splitter - much cheaper - then the issues would be:
1) Is it safe to use the RX7300 with no front end protection?  (Which I think comes down to whether the IC7300 grounds or protects the input during transmit) and
2) is the 3db signal loss using a splitter (such as minicircuits ZSC-2-2) a significant issue that justifies the expense of a PTRX-7300? (I think there are other advantages of the PTRX as well)

And the question before those two questions is - for my use, is a receive-only antenna for lower noise valuable for someone not doing contesting?  Having not had one, I don't have a sense of whether we're talking an incremental improvement that is mostly relevant in competition environments or a significant difference that would be worthwhile for general communication. 

I think the external SDR is more of a convenience and fun thing for my purposes, given that the functionality is there internally.

So to summarize my long-winded thinking process:
1) Is  a receive-only antenna a worthwhile addition for non-competitive use?
2) If yes, is using an RX7300 for that purpose safe  without any other front-end protection? Or maybe a DXE receiver guard , which is still under $100?

If yes to 1 and no or not so much to 2 - I probably should just go with the DX3000.  Otherwise I'm leaning heavily to the 7300.

Thanks again,
Michael KB1PIE
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