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Author Topic: Permission Granted  (Read 752 times)

W4MSL

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Permission Granted
« on: May 05, 2020, 02:25:54 PM »

Knowing how discouraging it can be for hams living in the HOA/Covenant Restricted neighborhoods, I thought I'd share a very recent ray of hope which came my way. Basically, I asked my HOA for permission to hang a vertical wire loop antenna. After a site visit, the committeeman was clearly inclined to grant my request, but expressed concern about "setting precedent." No one in the twenty prior years of this neighborhood had asked for such a thing. I agreed that approval would create a precedent, but not a demand, given the long-standing previous absence of such requests, and, AFAIK, other hams in the subdivision. He concurred, realizing my request was unlikely to generate an "I've got to have one of THOSE" response amongst my neighbors.

I did read up on my covenant, and found that external antenna permits are, in my case, effectively "may issue." Thus, they are not strictly forbidden by MY HOA, and the language implied that permission might be obtained. So, after considering just hanging one and seeing what happened, I decided instead to ask.

Some context is relevant. The proposed location is in my side and rear yards, which are wooded. My adjacent neighbor had already given his OK (the HOA checked). The wire will not be visible from the street, and only from directly beneath it if you know to look. Timing appears to have been quite important. Had I made the same request during the brief tenure of an officious prior HOA chairman, I feel sure my request would have been dismissed out-of-hand. Our present HOA board composition represents a reaction against the hubris of that prior chairman. Folks really didn't cotton to being bullied, so he and his cohort got voted out and replaced by rather nice people. In addition, the individual doing the site review is a veteran, old enough to know about and appreciate the role of wireless communications, a fact I only learned when he came by. I showed him the actual wire I planned to hang, and he was relieved to see how small it was and that it had a low-gloss sheathing. He was imagining a fat coax or some such high-profile something, so seeing helped allay concerns.

In case you are wondering, our HOA has a bit of a well-earned rep for being rather persnickety, so I didn't assume my request would fly without a real review. But, in my case, the confluence of Location, Low Visual Impact, Personality of the HOA board, and Timing fell together. I don't wish to imply that many will enjoy such a response from their HOA. Some of you have unbelievably intrusive HOAs, which apparently know if you even think about antennas! Saying "please" doesn't help with those. But, unless you already know the end without doubt, looking (and probably waiting) for a less unfavorable if not actually favorable combination of factors may at least decrease the odds of an unconsidered denial, at least for some. Thin hope? Maybe, but I thought mine might be.

Anyway, the sun is shining for me, and now I get to figure out how to hang that full-wave 80M loop! My excuses for not operating have narrowed to things which at least are up to my initiative.

73, and here's hoping to catch some of you OTA before much longer.
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K1VSK

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2020, 03:33:55 PM »

That happens far more often than some might want to believe. Unresponsive and/or unreasonable HOA committee/Board members don’t last long. And all the HOAs with which I am familiar have great flexibility in granting modifications to any rule or prohibition. Mine granted over 200 in just one month for various reasons including antennas.

Rather than being a problem, HOAs are an effective tool to ensure neighborhood aesthetics including limiting  eyesores no one wants.
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W8LV

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2020, 11:27:08 AM »

K1VSK Said: "Mine granted over 200 in just one month for various reasons including antennas."

Oh? How many were specifically granted for Amateur Radio antennas?

73 DE W8LV BILL
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K7JQ

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2020, 01:49:29 PM »

W4MSL,

That's great! It's not true that *EVERY* HOA/CC&R community won't listen to and approve antenna requests.

Unfortunately in my case, when I applied for erecting a 23 foot multi-band vertical, I received a nasty "CEASE AND DESIST" letter from the HOA...even before I put anything up! Then taking a "it's sometimes  better to ask for forgiveness than permission" approach, I devised other stealth alternatives, and have been on the air for many years. No one can see it, and everybody's happy ;).

Enjoy your new antenna(s)!

73,  Bob K7JQ

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K1VSK

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2020, 05:46:38 AM »

K1VSK Said: "Mine granted over 200 in just one month for various reasons including antennas."

Oh? How many were specifically granted for Amateur Radio antennas?

73 DE W8LV BILL

That’s not the point - lots of people like gardening and want a greenhouse in their yard. Others have meteorology or astronomy  as a hobby and want a telescope or weather instruments. They all asked for and received permission to my knowledge as have a few hams. How many is irrelevant as neither of us know how many asked for 100 foot towers or other ludicrous exemptions.

The point is .... let’s see if you can figure it out all by yourself.
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W9FIB

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2020, 05:56:25 AM »

A telescope, green house, and weather station are not a HR antennas. Only HR antennas are HR antennas.

And yes, number of exceptions and rejections is relevant data when considering the performance of an HOA board and the people ruled by them. And that is true for any hobby. But the data needs to be exclusive to each hobby to be of any value.

Otherwise your statement has as much value as a fart in a whirlwind.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K1VSK

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2020, 10:26:20 AM »

A telescope, green house, and weather station are not a HR antennas. Only HR antennas are HR antennas.

And yes, number of exceptions and rejections is relevant data when considering the performance of an HOA board and the people ruled by them. And that is true for any hobby. But the data needs to be exclusive to each hobby to be of any value.

Otherwise your statement has as much value as a fart in a whirlwind.

It's fun watching some of your responses. For example, stating a weather station is not an antenna is not something anyone here would easily confuse but thanks for the clarification.

The fundamental issue regarding HOAs is flexibility in allowing whatever the homeowner wants including antennas, not what some clown who doesn't live in an HOA think others should do or have. To state the obvious, flexibility is essential if an HOA resident wants to erect an antenna not generally allowed. Following yet?

As HOAs such as ours clearly are flexible, and have in fact permitted outdoor antennas ( not one request has been rejected to my knowledge) as well as many other structures, the HOA rants we often seen here are misleading at best or simply disingenuous - you pick.

Given that it's easier to attack the messenger rather than admit you have an uninformed bias, continue with the useless comments.


Bottom line - anyone in our HOA who has sought permission for a reasonably sized antenna has succeeded. Whether that number is 2 or 200 is irrelevant - got it yet?
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W9FIB

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2020, 02:38:49 AM »

So in your world no ham was ever rejected in an antenna request?

Sorry, I don't believe that. That's the reality of it.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K1VSK

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2020, 07:05:43 AM »

So in your world no ham was ever rejected in an antenna request?

Sorry, I don't believe that. That's the reality of it.
I said “to my knowledge”. Since you like stating the obvious, that means I am unaware of any ham’s antenna request being denied. And that knowledge derives from talking directly with the HOA.

That you “don’t believe” something doesn’t make it untrue; just that you refuse to believe it. (A textbook example of a closed mind).

What you think is irrelevant to the facts.
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W9FIB

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2020, 09:10:58 AM »

So basically you are not going to answer W8LV's question with fact...just hearsay. "to my knowledge" is a self serving scapegoat when you really don't know.

Just an observation.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K1VSK

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2020, 01:13:42 PM »

So basically you are not going to answer W8LV's question with fact...just hearsay. "to my knowledge" is a self serving scapegoat when you really don't know.

Just an observation.
I can only attest to what I know. And I clearly did answer. But I can’t fix stupid.
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W8LV

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2020, 07:47:17 PM »

K1VSK Said: "HOAs such as ours clearly are flexible, and have in fact permitted outdoor antennas ( not one request has been rejected to my knowledge)"

Don, could you email your HOA and let us know the total of how many Amateur Radio Antennas they actually have approved?

73 DE W8LV BILL
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W9FIB

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2020, 02:31:06 AM »

So basically you are not going to answer W8LV's question with fact...just hearsay. "to my knowledge" is a self serving scapegoat when you really don't know.

Just an observation.
I can only attest to what I know. And I clearly did answer. But I can’t fix stupid.
Or in this case, what you don't know.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K1VSK

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2020, 07:13:46 AM »

So basically you are not going to answer W8LV's question with fact...just hearsay. "to my knowledge" is a self serving scapegoat when you really don't know.

Just an observation.
I can only attest to what I know. And I clearly did answer. But I can’t fix stupid.
Or in this case, what you don't know.

My suggestion is to stop trying to be clever - you don’t have the right tools.
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K1VSK

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2020, 07:15:56 AM »

K1VSK Said: "HOAs such as ours clearly are flexible, and have in fact permitted outdoor antennas ( not one request has been rejected to my knowledge)"

Don, could you email your HOA and let us know the total of how many Amateur Radio Antennas they actually have approved?

73 DE W8LV BILL

Sure.
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