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Author Topic: Permission Granted  (Read 753 times)

W6QW

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2020, 08:03:46 AM »

One can only wonder why discussions on this forum always seem to digress into social-media trolling exchanges.
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K7JQ

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2020, 09:29:49 AM »

One can only wonder why discussions on this forum always seem to digress into social-media trolling exchanges.

I never could understand it. This is only a hobby, but I guess if someone has a different view on things, it rattles some cages to the point of back-and-forth abusive behavior. This topic always generates its' share of heated "discussions". It's always the  HOA residents wanting some antenna permission vs the anti-HOA crowd that call them stupid for moving into such a community, and don't deserve antennas. There's no changing anyone's opinion...fruitless vindictive banter, usually resulting in a locked thread ;). Ho-hum, carry on.....

73,  Bob K7JQ
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K1VSK

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2020, 01:08:33 PM »

This topic always generates its' share of heated "discussions". It's always the  HOA residents wanting some antenna permission vs the anti-HOA crowd ...

73,  Bob K7JQ
When you look closer, you see it’s not the HOA residents doing the whining but rather the people who are displaying a self-esteem issue and don’t even live in one expressing their uninformed judgmental attitude of those who do. See examples above. They do not live in an HOA but seem to think they have some unique knowledge to share.
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K7JQ

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2020, 02:47:34 PM »

This topic always generates its' share of heated "discussions". It's always the  HOA residents wanting some antenna permission vs the anti-HOA crowd ...

73,  Bob K7JQ
When you look closer, you see it’s not the HOA residents doing the whining but rather the people who are displaying a self-esteem issue and don’t even live in one expressing their uninformed judgmental attitude of those who do. See examples above. They do not live in an HOA but seem to think they have some unique knowledge to share.

Yes, and  thus the difference of opinion. No middle ground reached, and then the shouting begins escalating when no one can sway the other. Always a stalemate in the antenna restriction topics. Actually, IMO, there's "whining" on both sides, but from different perspectives.

The HOA folks "whine" about the fact that they can't have antennas. Don, I know that your development and others in your Florida vicinity approve antennas (as frustratingly pointed out to WB2KSP in past threads). But frankly, without hard evidence, I *think* the great majority of HOA/CC&R communities throughout the Country are much harsher on the antenna approvals. The hams that piss and moan are those whose antenna requests were denied or haven't even applied for approval, even though they knew about the restrictions when they bought. Or maybe they didn't know...their fault for not reading the CC&R's. I live in such a community, knew the restrictions, but large visible antennas were not my main priority in life. If they are, I say buy elsewhere and avoid the hassle and discontent.

On the other hand, the other "whiners" are the anti-HOA folks that profess "you can't take away my rights and liberties". And that's OK. They've probably never lived under an HOA, never will, and won't be convinced that there might be some advantages, notwithstanding antenna restrictions. They have their towers and beams...cool. I don't know what they're whining about, other than for some reason criticizing the HOA dwellers for being stupid. Why do they even care? BTW, the proposed ham antenna legislation is a whole other topic. Not gonna go there.

There's the stalemate...pointless to discuss. I don't know why I even posted this ;D! I say live and let live. Enjoy life in general and ham radio, no matter how you're able to get on the air. Too much other crap going on these days.

73 and stay safe,   Bob K7JQ
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K1VSK

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2020, 06:26:52 PM »

This topic always generates its' share of heated "discussions". It's always the  HOA residents wanting some antenna permission vs the anti-HOA crowd ...

73,  Bob K7JQ
When you look closer, you see it’s not the HOA residents doing the whining but rather the people who are displaying a self-esteem issue and don’t even live in one expressing their uninformed judgmental attitude of those who do. See examples above. They do not live in an HOA but seem to think they have some unique knowledge to share.

Yes, and  thus the difference of opinion. No middle ground reached, and then the shouting begins escalating when no one can sway the other. Always a stalemate in the antenna restriction topics. Actually, IMO, there's "whining" on both sides, but from different perspectives.

The HOA folks "whine" about the fact that they can't have antennas. Don, I know that your development and others in your Florida vicinity approve antennas (as frustratingly pointed out to WB2KSP in past threads). But frankly, without hard evidence, I *think* the great majority of HOA/CC&R communities throughout the Country are much harsher on the antenna approvals. The hams that piss and moan are those whose antenna requests were denied or haven't even applied for approval, even though they knew about the restrictions when they bought. Or maybe they didn't know...their fault for not reading the CC&R's. I live in such a community, knew the restrictions, but large visible antennas were not my main priority in life. If they are, I say buy elsewhere and avoid the hassle and discontent.

On the other hand, the other "whiners" are the anti-HOA folks that profess "you can't take away my rights and liberties". And that's OK. They've probably never lived under an HOA, never will, and won't be convinced that there might be some advantages, notwithstanding antenna restrictions. They have their towers and beams...cool. I don't know what they're whining about, other than for some reason criticizing the HOA dwellers for being stupid. Why do they even care? BTW, the proposed ham antenna legislation is a whole other topic. Not gonna go there.

There's the stalemate...pointless to discuss. I don't know why I even posted this ;D! I say live and let live. Enjoy life in general and ham radio, no matter how you're able to get on the air. Too much other crap going on these days.

73 and stay safe,   Bob K7JQ

All valid points except for the fact no one has ever tried to quantify if or how many hams are actually negatively affected by HOA rules. Or how many HOAs don’t accommodate antenna requests. Anecdotal stories don’t generally serve as a sound basis for legislative action. Absent that info about how many hams and how many inflexible HOAs exist,  the whole argument is academic and serves no purpose.

Why the ARRL has consistently continued to ignore defining the issue they seek to address is telling. Meanwhile, we have here yet another ‘success’ story.
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KN6SD

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2020, 10:34:33 PM »

If an HOA Board is flexible, it's because the CC&R's allow for that... Most flexible HOA Boards are made of community members, not lawyers and property managers.

The standard CC&R's ban all outdoor antennas, leave no room for flexibility, and the only way the Board can override the CC&R's is by getting most, if not all, of the property owners to agree... GOOD LUCK!!!

Some of the newer CC&R's Ban Amateur Radio (A.K.A. Ham radio) transmitters and Citizens Band (A.K.A. CB radio) transmitters. And of course, any antenna affiliated with either radio service is banned. So, no flexibility with those types of CC&R's...
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 10:44:00 PM by KN6SD »
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ND6M

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2020, 06:30:10 AM »

...edit...
Some of the newer CC&R's Ban Amateur Radio (A.K.A. Ham radio) transmitters .....

I know of ONE CC&R banning TRANSMITTERS that was rewritten to allow them.


post some examples of current CC&R that actually ban Amateur TRANSMITTERS.
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K1VSK

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2020, 06:32:49 AM »

If an HOA Board is flexible, it's because the CC&R's allow for that... Most flexible HOA Boards are made of community members, not lawyers and property managers.

The standard CC&R's ban all outdoor antennas, leave no room for flexibility, and the only way the Board can override the CC&R's is by getting most, if not all, of the property owners to agree... GOOD LUCK!!!

Some of the newer CC&R's Ban Amateur Radio (A.K.A. Ham radio) transmitters and Citizens Band (A.K.A. CB radio) transmitters. And of course, any antenna affiliated with either radio service is banned. So, no flexibility with those types of CC&R's...

Not correct. Mine and many others include specific bans on antennas but the HOA Board which has the sole enforcement authority can and has issued modifications allowing antennas regardless of the original CC&R language. This isn’t a unique example as many do the same thing.

Such flexibility does indeed exist regardless of what some here might otherwise (want to) think.
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W4MSL

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2020, 06:42:29 AM »

If an HOA Board is flexible, it's because the CC&R's allow for that...

Precisely, which is why one should read the actual text. Mine states: "9.12 Without the prior written approval [my emphasis] of the Architectural Ontrol Committee, no television antenna, radio receiver, or other similar device shall be attached to or installed on any portion of the Property, unless contained entirely within the interior of a a residential dwelling constructed on the Lot. No radio or television signals, or any other form of electromagnetic radiation, shall be permitted to originate from any Lot  which may unreasonably interfere [my emphasis] with the reception of television or radio signals within the subdivision..."

The above contains language both ambiguous and (thus) flexible. As it implies approval may be granted, I was encouraged to request such. But, as I stated in my OP, the granting of such permission requires the presence reasonable and flexible persons on the HOA board, which is not always the case. I consider myself fortunate that both the language and persons were flexible. This appears to be an uncommon confluence for most.
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W9IQ

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2020, 07:05:27 AM »

or any other form of electromagnetic radiation, shall be permitted to originate from any Lot  which may unreasonably interfere[/i] [my emphasis] with the reception of television or radio signals within the subdivision..."


The FCC has already preempted this type of non-Federal oversight. This would not stand if challenged. It is, in fact, in conflict with the Federal regulations.

- Glenn W9IQ
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 07:20:08 AM by W9IQ »
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

K1VSK

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2020, 08:14:17 AM »




The FCC has already preempted this type of non-Federal oversight. This would not stand if challenged. It is, in fact, in conflict with the Federal regulations.

- Glenn W9IQ

Nonsense
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W8LV

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2020, 08:20:16 AM »

K1VSK said: "When youlook closer, you see it’s not the HOA residents doing the whining but rather the people who are displaying a self-esteem issue and don’t even live in one expressing their uninformed judgmental attitude of those who do. See examples above. They do not live in an HOA but seem to think they have some unique knowledge to share."

Oh? We're still waiting for your unique knowledge to share: Actual numbers from your  respective HOA. Because informed minds want to know!

Even here on eham.net when recently it was the survey question: 100% of the hams who had a problem with their HOA all lived in an HOA. And the ARRL study found that MOST HOAs would not allow antennas. MOST.  MOST is MORE than half, at the very least.

To say that those who don't live an an HOA don't have any information and that those who do live in one have unique    information is absurd. As is the Cheap Shot of attacking someone's esteem for having an opinion that opposes yours.

We all have the right to comment on policy and change. That's How It Is.

73 DE W8LV BILL

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W9IQ

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2020, 08:26:24 AM »




The FCC has already preempted this type of non-Federal oversight. This would not stand if challenged. It is, in fact, in conflict with the Federal regulations.

- Glenn W9IQ

Nonsense

I suppose to some people it is.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

W8LV

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2020, 08:27:40 AM »

So you're not going to answer Glenn W9IQ with an actual reply to defend your position?

73 DE W8LV BILL
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W9IQ

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Re: Permission Granted
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2020, 08:58:44 AM »

Let me give you one snippet of the typical FCC response on these types of attempts to preempt:

The Commission's jurisdiction of interference matters is set forth in Section 302(a) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, 47 U.S.C. § 302(a). It is clear from the report of the Joint Committee of Conference, HR report No, 765, 97 Congr., 2nd Sess., that congress intended that the Commission have exclusive jurisdiction over interference to home electronics equipment.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.
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