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Author Topic: Minneapolis in flames. Would ham radio keep you apprised of such things?  (Read 1796 times)

N2KD

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#7   Physical fitness is an important consideration in covering situations that could suddenly turn violent.

That would preclude the majority of hams being anywhere near an incident.

Agree that using an HT in the middle of a riot is going to bring unwanted attention.

Ham radio, as far as keeping abreast of situations, really doesnt come into play unless the
normal channels of information are absent or unreliable. That could occur due to disaster, or actions by agencies
to shut down or co-opt media, turn off cell towers, etc.


Poynter Institute's 29 tips on reporting from unrest. so they're going into danger, bringing an antenna launcher to a gunfight.
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HFCRUSR

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As most of you probably are aware, Minneapolis is in flames from rioting. 

Here in Central Mass, market changes have destroyed local media.  The local newspapers were bought up by out of state companies, and the local reporting staff fired.  There is barely any local news coverage, and certainly nothing up to the minute.

Further, there is a tendency for the government / police to hush up things that might make the citizens uneasy.  A friend of mine was sexually assaulted in the aisles of a local grocery store, and the store and police hushed it up, worried that it would negatively affect business.

If the Minneapolis riots spread to my nearby city, I'm wondering how would I keep abreast of what's going on? 

Would ham radio be useful here?

It would be great to be able to tune into ham radio, and get up to the minute reports about the area.  Kind of like Skywarn for public safety.  You could figure out what was happening, what areas of the city were safe, and if anything was spreading to your area.

Would ARES activate to do this sort of thing, or are they limited to health and welfare things?  Would it be useful to organize something to provide this sort of thing when TSHTF?

Thanks
N1AUP
Get and custom-program a scanner. I've had scanners in my possession since I was a kid. I happen to feel having a scanner in the radio mix here is essential, much like how you wish to look to the ham bands for pertinent information to current situations. You will not get the real-time info from hams that you will right from the horse's mouth-the police.
99% of the time, IF I have the scanner on actually monitoring for just monitoring sake, I will gain exactly what's going down at the very time it's happening. Most of the time, I have that info before I will see it on the news.
Example, last couple days, because of this rioting/looting/protesting, I kept the scanner on starting at about noon and heard exactly when (3PM) where (Embarcadero, Mission, 280 freeway on-ramps, and South Van Ness) who (SFPD and CHP including choppers) probably at the same time any news outfits were receiving the same stuff I was, the protest leads and an accumulation of about 3500 protesters established organized and executed their movements. And I was able to follow every turn and split and even assault on cops/property that group made in real time.
I even discovered random looting right near me in western Frisco. I would never know any of this without that rig. I would just be ignorant along with my neighbors. And I'd also be aware if this stuff started getting too close to my QTH and would be able to warn others around me as well as otherwise take action-because of that radio.
I feel that you hams should have a scanner in the mix of radios if you want real-time, essential information.

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Not a ham, but an avid hobbyist in HF world. All things, short of transmit happen in this shack.

NC5P

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If there happens to be a mobile operator in an area with activity you might hear them talk about what they see but they probably don't really know what's going on.  Try listening to the fire department radio frequencies/talk groups.  The police everywhere are quickly encrypting but some fire departments are still in the clear or even on analog.  Dallas is going to digital/encrypted later this year (last I heard Q4).  Meanwhile I still listen sometimes. 
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WA9AFM

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If there happens to be a mobile operator in an area with activity you might hear them talk about what they see but they probably don't really know what's going on.  Try listening to the fire department radio frequencies/talk groups.  The police everywhere are quickly encrypting but some fire departments are still in the clear or even on analog.  Dallas is going to digital/encrypted later this year (last I heard Q4).  Meanwhile I still listen sometimes.

The Oklahoma City metro police/fire/EMSA switched to 800MHz digital/trunk system years ago to facilitate inter-service communication; OHP and other statewide agencies were added later. Ironically, the ring/trunk system was designed by an amateur radio operator.

 
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K6CPO

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As most of you probably are aware, Minneapolis is in flames from rioting. 

Here in Central Mass, market changes have destroyed local media.  The local newspapers were bought up by out of state companies, and the local reporting staff fired.  There is barely any local news coverage, and certainly nothing up to the minute.

Further, there is a tendency for the government / police to hush up things that might make the citizens uneasy.  A friend of mine was sexually assaulted in the aisles of a local grocery store, and the store and police hushed it up, worried that it would negatively affect business.

If the Minneapolis riots spread to my nearby city, I'm wondering how would I keep abreast of what's going on? 

Would ham radio be useful here?

It would be great to be able to tune into ham radio, and get up to the minute reports about the area.  Kind of like Skywarn for public safety.  You could figure out what was happening, what areas of the city were safe, and if anything was spreading to your area.

Would ARES activate to do this sort of thing, or are they limited to health and welfare things?  Would it be useful to organize something to provide this sort of thing when TSHTF?

Thanks
N1AUP
Get and custom-program a scanner. I've had scanners in my possession since I was a kid. I happen to feel having a scanner in the radio mix here is essential, much like how you wish to look to the ham bands for pertinent information to current situations. You will not get the real-time info from hams that you will right from the horse's mouth-the police.
99% of the time, IF I have the scanner on actually monitoring for just monitoring sake, I will gain exactly what's going down at the very time it's happening. Most of the time, I have that info before I will see it on the news.
Example, last couple days, because of this rioting/looting/protesting, I kept the scanner on starting at about noon and heard exactly when (3PM) where (Embarcadero, Mission, 280 freeway on-ramps, and South Van Ness) who (SFPD and CHP including choppers) probably at the same time any news outfits were receiving the same stuff I was, the protest leads and an accumulation of about 3500 protesters established organized and executed their movements. And I was able to follow every turn and split and even assault on cops/property that group made in real time.
I even discovered random looting right near me in western Frisco. I would never know any of this without that rig. I would just be ignorant along with my neighbors. And I'd also be aware if this stuff started getting too close to my QTH and would be able to warn others around me as well as otherwise take action-because of that radio.
I feel that you hams should have a scanner in the mix of radios if you want real-time, essential information.

These days, scanners are of limited value.  I reprogrammed my trunking scanner for all of the San Diego police frequencies, but it wasn't much use because the officers at the protests were using tactical frequencies and all of those are encrypted.  All I was able to hear was normal police traffic elsewhere in the city.  I was able to get better information from the TV.
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N9AOP

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If Minneapolis is anything like Chicago, tune in to your local TV channel.  All the gas bags will be there going repeatedly over every detail until you are ready to puke.  It's like when the President gives the state of the union address and then the reporters have to take two hours to tell you what he said, as if you are to stupid to understand.
Art
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N8AUC

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If Minneapolis is anything like Chicago, tune in to your local TV channel.  All the gas bags will be there going repeatedly over every detail until you are ready to puke.  It's like when the President gives the state of the union address and then the reporters have to take two hours to tell you what he said, as if you are to stupid to understand.
Art

They also think you're too stupid to think for yourself, because they will proceed to tell you how to think about what was said.

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KG7LEA

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On several occasions in recent years large crowds have crashed the cellular telephone services, all of them. No one could call 9-1-1. I got a report of a medical emergency from a ham in the middle of the crowd. I was able to give it to the fire department which dispatched a team on a quad to the scene via their 800 MHz system.
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WB8VLC

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In 45 years of being licensed from Detroit, to Phoenix then after cooking in the desert for 5 years up to the cool Mtns of Prescott Arizona then the pacifist Northwest for a bit then back to Northern Arizona for a little break from the PNW and operating continuously the entire journey, well the last thing that I would count on in any emergency situation is ham radio.

Only because there are so few people listening at the times when emergencies occur, if you have a dedicated local system that is operational 24/7 then by all means use it.

The only time I have ever had ham radio help out was in 1989 while driving in rural Arizona and coming across a drunk running other vehicles off the road on a remote stretch of I-10, and the band that saved the day was 29.6 FM with a station 2000 miles away who got AZ DPS/HP on scene very fast.

But of course 1989 was the year of the big solar peak and no cell phones and such so this is in line with my earlier statement that finding someone on the air when you need help is slim pickings unless you can make your emergencies occur during solar peaks.

For me if Prescott Arizona was burning like your start line says about Minneapolis, well I would go to the local Safeway and buy some items to make smores and hot dogs and simply go downtown and not worry about ham adio and enjoy a nice city provided barbeque.
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VA3FLN

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  • Posts: 6

As most of you probably are aware, Minneapolis is in flames from rioting. 

Here in Central Mass, market changes have destroyed local media.  The local newspapers were bought up by out of state companies, and the local reporting staff fired.  There is barely any local news coverage, and certainly nothing up to the minute.

Further, there is a tendency for the government / police to hush up things that might make the citizens uneasy.  A friend of mine was sexually assaulted in the aisles of a local grocery store, and the store and police hushed it up, worried that it would negatively affect business.

If the Minneapolis riots spread to my nearby city, I'm wondering how would I keep abreast of what's going on? 

Would ham radio be useful here?

It would be great to be able to tune into ham radio, and get up to the minute reports about the area.  Kind of like Skywarn for public safety.  You could figure out what was happening, what areas of the city were safe, and if anything was spreading to your area.

Would ARES activate to do this sort of thing, or are they limited to health and welfare things?  Would it be useful to organize something to provide this sort of thing when TSHTF?

Thanks
N1AUP

My first ever use of ham radio was to call into the repeater atop the CN Tower in Toronto several years ago when the power went out amidst what turned out to be a record rainfall that came down within less than an hour.

There was a flurry of people calling into the repeater to report the flash flooding and power outages in their respective areas, but it was another fifteen or twenty minutes before the main newstalk radio station even began to take notice, despite it being in the middle of rush hour, so ham radio clearly provided a heads up.

There used to be a group of people who chatted on the same repeater everyday around rush hour as they called in via mobile rigs during their commute home. I suppose that listening to the repeater at those times could give advance notice of unexpected traffic or people blockading the highways.

I wouldn't put too much more stock in the value of ham radio during riots than to listen and share info on the main repeaters, and might suggest a scanner for further intel while monitoring the news and social media, but it can't hurt to keep a radio tuned in during abnormal times like these.

It's only conjecture at this point, but I could imagine circumstances in the future where selective reporting or censorship within the MSM or social media might occur in another episode of civil unrest, whether to understate its scale or exaggerate aspects of it for political purposes, in which case HF might be useful to circumvent the media to share information at a regional or national level. That said, it could be awfully difficult to verify information shared under those circumstances or the possible bias of those delivering it, so I would be skeptical of information coming from anyone that I am not already familiar with.
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WO7R

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Quote
And the reason for such varied coverage is the bias of the editor over what ever publication. So again 1 editor over all news is a major mistake.

Well, in Minneapolis, that isn't going to be a problem anyway.

On the newspaper side, there is the Star Tribune and the Post Dispatch.  I don't live there nowadays, but without a doubt, both were covering the story and they do not have the same editorial line.

That's before we consider TV, which has WCCO (a station that has long sent reporters on to national news) along with KARE, KMSP, and KSTP, all different.

So, the local news in that market doesn't have anything close to "one editor" that you so much fear.

Sample them all -- I usually did when I lived in the area.  You will do a lot better than sampling random folks on the internet -- or on a 2 meter repeater.
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KB8VUL

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Re: Minneapolis in flames. Would ham radio keep you apprised of such things?
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2020, 02:27:20 PM »

Well, here's the bigger issue with it.  It's basically a war zone in the heart of these situations and NO ONE is neutral in that situation.  They may themselves believe they are but one side or the other will NOT.   And since hammies seem to want to don their bright yellow or orange vests and strap up with 6 HT's carrying a badge, and the people are rioting about the cops... That may NOT be the best place to be.  Problem is that unless you are RIGHT THERE you bring NOTHING to the table for information.  Watching it on TV and reporting it, well it's old news.  SO I am gonna say no you probably should NOT be bothering with reporting situational awareness information from a city that is being burnt down by rioters unless you have your life insurance paid up and you want to give a bunch of money to who ever in named on the policy
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ONAIR

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Re: Minneapolis in flames. Would ham radio keep you apprised of such things?
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2020, 07:38:12 PM »

Well, here's the bigger issue with it.  It's basically a war zone in the heart of these situations and NO ONE is neutral in that situation.  They may themselves believe they are but one side or the other will NOT.   And since hammies seem to want to don their bright yellow or orange vests and strap up with 6 HT's carrying a badge, and the people are rioting about the cops... That may NOT be the best place to be.  Problem is that unless you are RIGHT THERE you bring NOTHING to the table for information.  Watching it on TV and reporting it, well it's old news.  SO I am gonna say no you probably should NOT be bothering with reporting situational awareness information from a city that is being burnt down by rioters unless you have your life insurance paid up and you want to give a bunch of money to who ever in named on the policy
   Good points. If you really want to get into the thick of things, it may be wiser to just use EchoLink via your smartphone there.  It is my understanding that some of the protesters are staying in touch with others by using the Virtual Airwaves app on their smartphones.   www.VirtualAirwaves.com
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K1FBI

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Re: Minneapolis in flames. Would ham radio keep you apprised of such things?
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2020, 06:05:10 AM »

If Minneapolis is anything like Chicago, tune in to your local TV channel.  All the gas bags will be there going repeatedly over every detail until you are ready to puke.  It's like when the President gives the state of the union address and then the reporters have to take two hours to tell you what he said, as if you are to stupid to understand.
Art

They also think you're too stupid to think for yourself, because they will proceed to tell you how to think about what was said.

CNN: Melania Transcript; how to listen.

They must think we are children in 1st grade.
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W1CDN

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Re: Minneapolis in flames. Would ham radio keep you apprised of such things?
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2020, 11:11:33 AM »

A lot of the reports I was reading on Twitter/Mastodon were based on what folks were hearing on police (or other government entity) scanners. So maybe they are not all encrypted in Minneapolis.
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