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Author Topic: Best radio for city dwelling DXers  (Read 548 times)

N5YPJ

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Best radio for city dwelling DXers
« on: August 31, 2020, 06:35:20 AM »

I have been reading a few threads here on picking the best radio, it is mentioned how noise floor ratings really are not that relevant for city & suburban dwellers these day because of the electrically noisy environments we live in - I agree. I would like opinions on what might be the better radio for city dwellers who like DXing and a bit of contesting. I live in an older neighborhood (1960's) that has always had some noise in the 10 yrs we have lived here. After a severe hail storm it got much worse, power company has been no help, the ARRL neither (yes I am a member). 3 months earlier I had just installed a Mosley Pro57B and was having a blast chasing some DX on FT8 so I'm invested in my station. I'm not getting any younger, health no better (already disabled) and I want to enjoy my hobby so I am investing in a antenna phasing unit (noise canceler) and a couple of magnetic loops. My current rig is a Kenwood TS-590S. I plan to upgrade to the 590SG if this noise problem can be remedied on my end. Is there a radio that would perform better?
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W9IQ

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Re: Best radio for city dwelling DXers
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2020, 06:48:13 AM »

It is interesting, Richard that a hail storm made your local noise worse. It could be utility related or it could be damage to your coax, etc. I would sure think it would be worth getting your Mosley back in operation compared to a couple of loops and a noise canceler.

Have you tried working with your ARRL Technical Coordinator, Peter, K5LB? The COVID situation makes things a bit more challenging these days but a telephone call to him may get things rolling. I am not sure if he has an ARRL Technical Specialist in your area. His details are located here: http://www.arrl.org/Users/view/peter-naumburg.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

W1VT

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Re: Best radio for city dwelling DXers
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2020, 06:49:24 AM »

I'd think that multiple magnetic loops would be too much hassle with a phasing units.  Too much stuff to tune.
I use an array of broadband flag antennas.  Small 10x22ft loops cover 160 to 30 meters. You may be able to go even smaller if your noise level is really high.  That will allow a good pattern higher in frequency.

Zak W1VT
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W4NBO

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Re: Best radio for city dwelling DXers
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2020, 08:04:46 AM »

I think your question is the best radio for city dwellers dealing with manmade rfi? I have a lot of older transceivers/receivers. So far the best at noise reduction is an old Ten Tec Triton IV followed by a Kenwood TS830s (far better than the most modern radio I have which is a KX2). That is in terms of their noise blankers dealing with my power line noise. But they can only do so much. If the arc is strong and/or nearby, then filtering (that I know of) is just a stop gap measure. I have a Timewave ANC-4 also. It sometimes helps a bit but requires a lot of fiddling with sense antennas. I also am in a 1960s built neighborhood.

The best solution ,longer term, though is having them fix all the 1960s (and probably not been maintained since then) arc's on the power lines. Some power co's will stall, delay, and worse to keep from having to deal with it. But it is their responsibility unless things have changed. You just have to stay after them in a professional persistent ,do not take no for an answer, manner but not quit. With the hail storm having that effect, sure sounds like power lines as they are outside.

First you have to cut the power to your dwelling to see if it makes any difference to make sure any of the noise is not in your dwelling (Would be really embarrassing if it was). Next, I would record some audio with your computer and then use a program to "stretch" out the audio to view say a 10 second or so segment. I use "Audacity". You are looking for 120 pulses per minute. That, and the effect the hail storm had, will just about prove its power line arc.

Then if your power co is small, press them for their supplier to bring a rfi location crew out. They will work with the local bucket truck to fix the crude. They have gizmos (I have built some of my own, but that is another story) to locate the power line noise. This may not happen quickly, it took me many months to get things to fruition (see the stalling above). Years ago all this happened to me and they fixed in excess of a dozen sources. Then over the years I have one pop up occasionally. The last one admittedly I just let it arc itself out and used NB's. It arced for almost a year. My xyl was newly disabled so I was quite busy and did not have the time to deal with it. It arc'ed itself out a couple months ago and I am again just about noise free.

Best of luck
Chuck
AF4O

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N5YPJ

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Re: Best radio for city dwelling DXers
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2020, 08:06:47 AM »

It is interesting, Richard that a hail storm made your local noise worse. It could be utility related or it could be damage to your coax, etc. I would sure think it would be worth getting your Mosley back in operation compared to a couple of loops and a noise canceler.

Have you tried working with your ARRL Technical Coordinator, Peter, K5LB? The COVID situation makes things a bit more challenging these days but a telephone call to him may get things rolling. I am not sure if he has an ARRL Technical Specialist in your area. His details are located here: http://www.arrl.org/Users/view/peter-naumburg.

- Glenn W9IQ

The Mosley seems to be as functional as before the storm. It is on a Hazer and was lowered and checked for damage nothing visible. The SWR readings are good as before.

It is the RFI that is so bad. Initially it was s-9/+20 db, now it is around s-9 24/7. Initially contacted the POCO, they did do some work though despite my requests no one ever would checked the noise being received on my rig. 5 yrs ago I had a noise complaint, AEP staff did a lot of checking in my station.

I did contact W1VLF who now handles RFI complaints for ARRL. I gave him information he requested and also informed him when the POCO said that there was no RFI radiating from their lines in the areas checked. W1VLF said he would try to call the POCO, going on two months now I have not heard a word from anyone. My complaint of 5 years earlier was handled very differently. I am aware of COVID but no one involved up to this point besides myself and K5WW seem interested in resolving the problem. I will try what you suggested though.
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AF5CC

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Re: Best radio for city dwelling DXers
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2020, 11:58:30 AM »

I understand your question and a lot of the noise we deal with is not due to powerline issues, although they can certainly cause high noise levels on HF.  I have had those problems and been lucky to have the power company fix it as well.  Much of the noise we get today is the result that every house is loaded with consumer electronics that have cheap, noise emitting switching power supplies in them that are kicking out hash on the RF spectrum.  The power company can do nothing about this, and our luck at solving these issues may or may not be solvable. 

Over the past couple of weeks I discovered that I had a S5 to S6 noise on 144.200mhz in certain directions that was still affecting reception up into the satellite portion of 2 meters.  Flipped a few circuit breakers in the house this morning while everyone else was away and tracked it down to a Keurig machine we bought over Christmas last year but rarely use now.  Unplugged it, and problem solved!  That is one success story, but what if it had been in the neighbor's house instead?  That may or may not have been something I would have discovered, or if I had discovered it, something that could have been sold.  Even in less dramatic cases, the noise from all of these power supplies adds up to a higher noise floor than what we had before.  I am always amazed what I can hear when I go mobile and get out on rural interstates-CW signals that don't even move the S meter come through crystal clear because there is no noise floor to deal with on the higher bands.

I have a Kenwood TS590SG and the noise blankers on it aren't anything to write home about.  It probably does well on ignition noise, and turning both of them on does lower the noise floor a little at times, but not near as well as the noise blankers in some other radios.  The noise reduction sounds nice in the TS590 but I have never been overly impressed with noise reduction circuits, be they AF or IF, in reducing the effects of RF based noise.  Amongst other things, I have never owned a radio with IF-DSP where turning on the noise reduction reduced the S meter reading for the noise, where it should if it was really taking out the noise.  Maybe I just haven't owned the right radios.  I didn't find the noise blanker in the Icom 7300 to do much on the RF crud I get in my area, but others think it is fantastic.  I live in a 1940s neighborhood where the houses are really close together, like maybe 10 feet between the houses on each side of me. 

As was stated earlier, I have also heard very good things about the noise blanker in the Ten Triton IV.  The Drake TR-7 is also supposed to have a super noise blanker.  The downside is that both of those radios came out before I was licensed (in 1980) so they are really showing their age and are very limited in features compared to today's radios.  I have never used a Kenwood TS830 like was mentioned before, but the QST review for the TS530 mentions that its NB took out any powerline noise that the author had at his QTH so that sounds promising. 

If you read W9KNI's eham review of the Elecraft K3 (it is the first review of that rig) he heaps praise on the noise blanker and noise reduction for that radio.  Reading other reviews of the K3 might confirm his findings.  Prices for the K3 on the used market have really been dropping recently.  The Yaesu FT891 and FT991 have pretty good noise blankers in them that get pretty aggressive on distorting signals if you turn them up a little too high.  I haven't used a FTDX3000 so I can't comment on its NB but I don't think it has as many settings as the 891 and 991 do.  The noise reduction circuit in the FTDX5000 gets praised in many eham reviews of that rig. 

Noise is such an individualistic thing you almost have to try out different rigs at your QTH to see what works on it and what doesn't.  It really helps if you can borrow different radios from a few local hams to get an idea as to what will take out the noise you have. 

73 John AF5CC
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W1VT

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Re: Best radio for city dwelling DXers
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2020, 04:59:23 AM »

Power companies use very specialized equipment that is only useful for detecting power line noise.

You may think of it as birder with a pair of binoculars.  In 15 minutes he can identify every bird on your block,
but doesn't have a clue as to what plants are causing your seasonal allergies!   
Even if he is standing in the middle of the ragweed!

You should only contact a power company if you know you have power line noise.  Otherwise you are just wasting your time.  And theirs.
You can send recordings to the ARRL to help ID power line noise.

https://www.nk7z.net/category/info/rfi-mitigation/i-have-rfi-series/

Zak W1VT
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 05:01:56 AM by W1VT »
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N5YPJ

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Re: Best radio for city dwelling DXers
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2020, 01:32:18 PM »

Power companies use very specialized equipment that is only useful for detecting power line noise.

You may think of it as birder with a pair of binoculars.  In 15 minutes he can identify every bird on your block,
but doesn't have a clue as to what plants are causing your seasonal allergies!   
Even if he is standing in the middle of the ragweed!

You should only contact a power company if you know you have power line noise.  Otherwise you are just wasting your time.  And theirs.
You can send recordings to the ARRL to help ID power line noise.

https://www.nk7z.net/category/info/rfi-mitigation/i-have-rfi-series/

Zak W1VT

We did go around the neighborhood several blocks with a MFJ-856 Directional Noise Finder W/ 3 El. Beam, MFJ-5008 Ultra-Sonic Receiver W/Parabolic Reflector and the F-150's AM radio located a few poles that were very noisy on that simple equipment, made note of the locations then gave to the power company. I waited about a month before contacting PoCo hoping it was something that would go away or be found otherwise. It has gotten better since, instead 0f S-9/+20DB it is S-9 now. A DXE NCC-3 noise canceler and W6LVP magnetic loop have given me my hobby back taming the S-9 to a S-2 or 3 which is livable. :)
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