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Author Topic: Extra Class Upgrade.  (Read 908 times)

KM1H

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2020, 09:42:03 AM »

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Gee Carl, you got your Extra when I was in the 3rd grade, and you were first licensed 5 years before I was born.
Congrats. That means you're older than I am. If I remember right, didn't you work for National Radio back in the day?

Yep, 1963-69 straight out of the USN for 4 years fully trained as an ET which was huge benefit back then. I walked in, answered some questions and got hired. Didnt need to spend weeks learning how to use test equipment either.
When I left National I was already in R&D doing design work; degrees werent needed back then just to get in the door.

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Dumbed down? Hardly. One in three freshmen couldn't handle the workload and dropped out completely. 2 of 3 people declaring an EE major didn't survive sophomore year. What drove most people out of the EE program was Calculus 3 and EM Fields 1. Getting people to thoroughly understand Maxwell's Equations, while learning the calculus needed to do so simultaneously was more than most people could handle.

That is a huge parallel to those unable to get from 5 wpm to 13....I earned the ARRL 30 wpm certificate a few months after passing the General.

The only reason I earned degrees decades later was to position myself for an excellent pension and a Sr Engr job at a major defense contractor leading a group on part of the F-35 avionics package....at 300 GHz and beyond. I took courses at UMass, MIT, BU, and elsewhere which benefited the job at the time over the years.

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And who said anything about mentioning an Amateur Radio license on a resume? I haven't seen anyone care about that on a resume in 30 years.

It comes up on various forums and OTA even these days. I mention it as a warning to others to be careful, youre not the only one reading this.

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Regarding well-educated immigrants? They are no better educated than American students. In fact, many of them studied here in the U.S. But companies hire them on H-1B visas because they work cheap, and are useful to suppress salary levels among engineers. You just can't hire them if you're a defense contractor, because most H-1B visa holders are unable to qualify for the security clearance requirements.

That may be your opinion including a wide range of employment in Industrial Ohio and elsewhere not requiring a top level education.
Yes, many earned their degrees in the US and the Greater Boston area was loaded with them which also has its share of top schools and very high tech companies, not just electronics.

I lived and worked in the defense industry for several decades (had a TS Crypto clearance since the USN/USNR) in this area and MANY were hired and well qualified as EE's ready to work from day one. Others less qualified bought 7-eleven's, motels, and found other jobs that eventually paid far more than an EE ;D  One I remember well was from Pakistan and retired as a multi-millionaire.

In NYC and LA they drive cabs. ;D ::)

Not all EE (and other disciplines) schools are equal. When my middle son was going for his MSEE at the USAF AFIT at Wright Patterson he as a brand new 2d Lt tutored others as high as Captain. AFIT is a top rated school and dimbulbs arent given free passes as in some of the schools around the country.

Carl


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K0UA

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2020, 12:38:34 PM »

I remember my exact though process back in 1975 when I got my Extra, that I had better get this one and done while I was still young. I hated CW then as I was a poor CW operator (still am) and I know from all accounts that learning new things becomes more difficult as you age, I decided to "get on the stick" and get that extra ticket while I still could.

I went from Novice to Tech, then Advanced and had to make one more trip to the Kansas City federal building and suffer the wrath of Etta Birdsong (FCC examiner) one more time. According to Etta, I just barely squeaked by with exactly 100 characters in a row. She actually told me that. Said it nearly killed her to find them out of the 500 sloppy formed characters I had scribbled down. She made it pretty clear and out loud that I was a rather large PITA.

I swore to myself then and there in 1975 to Never again touch a CW key or listen to that hateful stuff. I kept that promise for at least 10 years, but sadly I have broken it many times since. My CW skills have possibly improved a bit, and I don't hate it near as much, and I actually have had a few QSO's this month even. Some rechew and a couple DX "hello goodbye's". Heck I even had one a few days ago at 5 watts on 40, just to see how the QRP crowd sees things.

I view CW mostly as a necessary evil.  Something I have to do because it is required if you want to effectively works some DX.  I practice it because I must. I have to stay good enough at it to at least pick out my own call and report out of the pileup. I suppose that is how many look at FT8, a necessary evil, that is required if you want to work some of the DX stations but certainly not enjoyable.

Who knows, perhaps some day if I keep at it long enough I may come to enjoy it. Perhaps it is insidious.  But at least I had enough brains to know that a 20 something would be a lot more likely to pass those tests than a 60 something and with a lot less effort. Of course If I had waited long enough, I could have went to a Volunteer exam, with NO CW test. That would have been nice. :) 

But then all of this time, I would have missed out on the "juicy" DX in the Extra segments. Oh well. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.  :)
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73  James K0UA

KM1H

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2020, 05:02:14 PM »

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I view CW mostly as a necessary evil.  Something I have to do because it is required if you want to effectively works some DX.  I practice it because I must. I have to stay good enough at it to at least pick out my own call and report out of the pileup. I suppose that is how many look at FT8, a necessary evil, that is required if you want to work some of the DX stations but certainly not enjoyable.

I consider CW as a necessary method to work QRP and have accumulated 9BDXCC QSL's with 5W or less; it took 30 years on 160. Far from evil, the challenge is fun AND enjoyable.

I consider FT8 as a dumbing down mode better suited to the ham who lets his PC do all the work.  To each their own.
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SOFAR

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2020, 10:09:44 AM »

What an excrement show this thread has devolved into.

Should have been locked early on.

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AC2EU

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2020, 10:26:07 AM »

What an excrement show this thread has devolved into.

Should have been locked early on.

Nah, too much "cancel culture" on social media for opposing viewpoints already.
People need to respect others who don't think the same as they do.
They might even learn something!

N8AUC

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2020, 06:32:47 PM »

Not all EE (and other disciplines) schools are equal. When my middle son was going for his MSEE at the USAF AFIT at Wright Patterson he as a brand new 2d Lt tutored others as high as Captain. AFIT is a top rated school and dimbulbs arent given free passes as in some of the schools around the country.

Carl
Yep, AFIT is top shelf.
I attended Case.

I spent several years in defense contract work myself, right out of school. The other best offer was to go into the USAF as an engineer, which would have been really cool. And I'd have been in the Dayton area, which means Hamvention would have been a local hamfest. But the pay difference was quite large, so I chose the defense contractor. In hindsight I often wonder if the USAF would have been a better choice. One of the perks the recruiter offered was being able to attend AFIT for an MSEE.

I worked for McDonnell Douglas, and Emerson Electric in St Louis. Those were probably the most fun jobs I ever had. Got to work on some really neat stuff that goes on or in various military aircraft, among other things. It would be inappropriate to go into specific details.

After coming back to Ohio I worked for another contractor where we built smart torpedoes for the Navy. (Think Hunt for Red October and you're pretty close.) I was recruited for that job because of my education and experience. And as it turned out, the people making the final hiring decision knew me because of my involvement in amateur radio.

10 years in, and those jobs dried up around here. In order to stay in that line of work, I'd have had to move to Texas, California or Maryland. The XYL refused to relocate again, since we were close to her family. And since I chose family over career, I had to find something else to do to put bread on the table. Worked for two different banks writing software for 6 years. At one of those I wrote software that does automatic stock trading, and another that does trust fund conversions while avoiding tax liabilities.

Twenty years ago I got a job offer I couldn't refuse from a management consulting firm to write software that audits medical insurance claims for fraud, waste, and payment system abuse, and I'm still doing that today. I was recruited for that job because of my education and experience. But it turned out that the people who made the actual hiring decision knew me because of connections I made with people via amateur radio.

If you are involved in a career path that requires technical skills, you probably won't get hired these days just because you're a ham regardless of license class. But it can certainly help seal the deal when it comes to the final hiring decision. It has for me a few times over the years.



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N8AUC

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2020, 06:40:36 PM »

I consider CW as a necessary method to work QRP and have accumulated 9BDXCC QSL's with 5W or less; it took 30 years on 160. Far from evil, the challenge is fun AND enjoyable.

I learned the code because I had to for my Novice license.
Used it because I had to in order to use my shiny new Novice ticket back then (1978).
Grew to love it over time, and today it is my preferred mode when operating casually or in the occasional contest.

I use computer based digital modes when doing ARES work.

The microphone gets used for checking into voice nets on HF, or VHF/UHF.

QRP CW is loads of fun! Send by hand, receive by ear.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 06:49:54 PM by N8AUC »
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AC2EU

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2020, 07:19:49 PM »

I consider CW as a necessary method to work QRP and have accumulated 9BDXCC QSL's with 5W or less; it took 30 years on 160. Far from evil, the challenge is fun AND enjoyable.

I learned the code because I had to for my Novice license.
Used it because I had to in order to use my shiny new Novice ticket back then (1978).
Grew to love it over time, and today it is my preferred mode when operating casually or in the occasional contest.

I use computer based digital modes when doing ARES work.

The microphone gets used for checking into voice nets on HF, or VHF/UHF.

QRP CW is loads of fun! Send by hand, receive by ear.
I stayed out of Ham radio BECAUSE of the CW requirement. Ironically,Now that I have the license , I developed an appreciation for the mode and it's mostly what I use on the air!

KM1H

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2020, 10:26:25 AM »

When I joined the Navy in 59 I was already well beyond 30 wpm between the ears but only pertinent items made it to paper. Only girls knew how to type ::) ;D

After 7 months of ET School I got sea duty on an old WW2 Fleet Oiler, AO-109; tanker to you land lubbers. The ET shack was in Emergency Radio which had a full set of LF and HF gear but no Radiomen assigned in normal times. 

I was also a regular in Radio Central doing Service and PM's so got to know that crew. One day Im listening to some CW traffic that gave us a change of our next port of call and I said WOW rather loud. Heads turned and the Chief RM glared at me with a "you can copy that" comment. All RM's had at least a Secret Clearance which I soon got and later a TS Crypto when the all new digital gear arrived that was a service nightmare requiring several reliability improvements. PLUS the ancient Model 15 and 19 RTTY's fell apart at the now required 100 wpm and it took weeks to get 28KSR/ASR's delivered which never failed. Special frequencies were set aside for the 15/19's that were restored to 60 wpm.

Bottom line was I volunteered to sit radio watches to relieve at sea boredom between refueling and sporadic service/PM work. First I had to learn how to use the "mill" and then demonstrate CW with a USN straight key which I wasnt that good at for 15 wpm. I told the RM Chief I only used a bug, aka Speed Key, and demonstrated with the Chiefs own. We soon had a contest going which was called a tie at 30 wpm; the Chief knew I had him at anything faster ;D   I also tuned the RM's to the ARRL code practice times and frequencies.

Soon I had my own Vibroplex Presentation delivered from home (a 16th birthday gift) which the Chief fell in love with all the chrome and gold plate. I still have it but unused for about 25 years since my KC Keyer crapped out and had to order parts. That was not pretty CW for a few days!

The big bonus was that I didnt have to stand any more fueling station duties or later Shore Patrol when I made ETR3. The R stood for Radar which was only a fraction of the electronics on that ship while N stood for Communications.

The next step was high speed nets, any approved speed key only, and 5 character crypto groups. And I also helped train lower rated RM's during daytime watches to get up to speed and do some of the PM's they were required to do.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 10:31:55 AM by KM1H »
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N8AUC

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2020, 06:13:41 PM »

When I joined the Navy in 59 I was already well beyond 30 wpm between the ears but only pertinent items made it to paper. Only girls knew how to type ::) ;D

After 7 months of ET School I got sea duty on an old WW2 Fleet Oiler, AO-109; tanker to you land lubbers. The ET shack was in Emergency Radio which had a full set of LF and HF gear but no Radiomen assigned in normal times. 

I was also a regular in Radio Central doing Service and PM's so got to know that crew. One day Im listening to some CW traffic that gave us a change of our next port of call and I said WOW rather loud. Heads turned and the Chief RM glared at me with a "you can copy that" comment. All RM's had at least a Secret Clearance which I soon got and later a TS Crypto when the all new digital gear arrived that was a service nightmare requiring several reliability improvements. PLUS the ancient Model 15 and 19 RTTY's fell apart at the now required 100 wpm and it took weeks to get 28KSR/ASR's delivered which never failed. Special frequencies were set aside for the 15/19's that were restored to 60 wpm.

Bottom line was I volunteered to sit radio watches to relieve at sea boredom between refueling and sporadic service/PM work. First I had to learn how to use the "mill" and then demonstrate CW with a USN straight key which I wasnt that good at for 15 wpm. I told the RM Chief I only used a bug, aka Speed Key, and demonstrated with the Chiefs own. We soon had a contest going which was called a tie at 30 wpm; the Chief knew I had him at anything faster ;D   I also tuned the RM's to the ARRL code practice times and frequencies.

Soon I had my own Vibroplex Presentation delivered from home (a 16th birthday gift) which the Chief fell in love with all the chrome and gold plate. I still have it but unused for about 25 years since my KC Keyer crapped out and had to order parts. That was not pretty CW for a few days!

The big bonus was that I didnt have to stand any more fueling station duties or later Shore Patrol when I made ETR3. The R stood for Radar which was only a fraction of the electronics on that ship while N stood for Communications.

The next step was high speed nets, any approved speed key only, and 5 character crypto groups. And I also helped train lower rated RM's during daytime watches to get up to speed and do some of the PM's they were required to do.

That is seriously cool, Carl!
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K0UA

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2020, 04:24:43 PM »

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To each their own.

Carl, you and I are in 100 percent agreement here.

Now about that "only girls knew how to type thing"... I beg your pardon.... :)

When I was in school, I didn't care much for the typing teacher and I did not make good grades in the class, BUT I learned how to type.  Later in life I started working RTTY, and that's where I learned how to type fast.  I can still do better than 100.
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73  James K0UA

N8AUC

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2020, 07:46:42 PM »

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To each their own.

Carl, you and I are in 100 percent agreement here.

Now about that "only girls knew how to type thing"... I beg your pardon.... :)

When I was in school, I didn't care much for the typing teacher and I did not make good grades in the class, BUT I learned how to type.  Later in life I started working RTTY, and that's where I learned how to type fast.  I can still do better than 100.

I never learned how to type either. I have "hunt and peck" down to a science.
In hindsight, I wish I had taken typing class. But it was held at the same time as
honors chemistry, and that seemed more important at the time. And in 1973,
we had no idea computers were going to be what they are today.

But yes, once upon a time, only girls knew how to type. Not anymore though.

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K0UA

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2020, 12:09:11 PM »

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To each their own.

Carl, you and I are in 100 percent agreement here.

Now about that "only girls knew how to type thing"... I beg your pardon.... :)

When I was in school, I didn't care much for the typing teacher and I did not make good grades in the class, BUT I learned how to type.  Later in life I started working RTTY, and that's where I learned how to type fast.  I can still do better than 100.

I never learned how to type either. I have "hunt and peck" down to a science.
In hindsight, I wish I had taken typing class. But it was held at the same time as
honors chemistry, and that seemed more important at the time. And in 1973,
we had no idea computers were going to be what they are today.

But yes, once upon a time, only girls knew how to type. Not anymore though.

I have no idea why I took typing at the time. I had no interest in the other business courses offered, I was strictly math and science. And of course there were no computers for the general populace in the late 1960's. I didn't really like the class and did not excel at it. I think i was confirmed at about 30 to 35 wpm. I passed and I think it was the lowest grade I ever made in any class in High school. So I was pretty much a typing failure.

Then can the ham license and RTTY in the early 70's. Wow, I could type.  Not very well mind you but a lot better than a lot of guys. My speed and accuracy rose exponentially. I could compose online and in real time. There weren't any memory buffers in those day with simple PLL decoders (home brew) and a model 15 setup.. Yep, I LOVED it.

  I spent hours copying La Prensa Latina or some such thing out of Cuba.  Cuban propaganda by the ream. Plenty of others too back in those days.  Sent and received a lot of RTTY pictures and had plenty of RTTY rag-chews. I was 100wpm in no time. I guess it was because it was fun and interesting to me instead of rote typing copying out of the funny looking (vertical) bound typing book. I hated that, but composing in your head lets your thoughts flow into your fingers without thinking about it. And that is where the speed comes.

So yep, RTTY was the gateway to my typing speed and skill, but it all started in learning the basics back in the day.

At a class re-union, I did get the courage to thank my old typing teacher for helping me down that road. It was a valuable skill, and one that made my work as a telephone technician so much easier as i could type. And by 1980 PBX's were being programmed via a terminal. Only a few of us could touch type, and my ability to program led to my becoming "team leader" and got me out of a lot of "drudge work" and led to advancement.

Many many times I have thanked that teacher in my mind for making my life easier, even if I had to be dragged kicking and screaming thru that class. It was one of the more valuable classes I took in High school, but we sure didn't know it at the time.
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73  James K0UA

KM1H

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2020, 05:09:36 PM »

I took automotive repair as a side course in HS and NEVER regretted it; I still do most of my own service.
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W1VT

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Re: Extra Class Upgrade.
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2020, 06:01:44 PM »

I took typing at Kauai High school in the mid 1970s.  It may have been the most useful course I took there. 
Out of a class of 200 a couple graduates went to the U of H and one went out of state to California.
If that school sounds familiar it may be  because Katashi KH6IJ taught science there.

Most of top students did what I did--left early to attend a private school on Oahu. 
I learned enough to design my own radio equipment on bands from 160 through 24 GHz.
And a simple CW laser transceiver for the fun of it.  ;D

Zak W1VT
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 06:06:50 PM by W1VT »
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