Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install  (Read 788 times)

K7JQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 2602
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2020, 08:01:23 PM »

HOA rules say, “ Antenna: To the extent not inconsistent with federal law, exterior tv and other antenna, are prohibited, unless approved in writing by the architectural review board. The ARB shall adopt rules for the installation of such antennas, which rules shall require that antennas be placed as inconspicuously as possible and screened from view; provided, however, that all such rules relating to antennas shall not unreasonably delay installation, interfere with reception or increase cost of installation. It is the intent of this provision that the ARB shall be able to strictly regulate exterior antennas to the fullest extent of the law and should any regulations be adopted herein or by the ARB conflict with federal law, such rules as do not conflict with federal law shall remain in full force and effect.”

Whew! I hope the attorney who drafted that mumbo-jumbo wasn't being paid by the word ;). I've never seen phrasing like that in my three CC&R's. At least it gives you some possibility for approval of *something*, by applying to the ARB. But that definitely leaves out the 43' vertical. Do you have any steel fencing on your property's perimeter? It would make a nice counterpoise for a relatively inconspicuous screwdriver antenna. One of my two screwdrivers is in such a configuration, and it works quite well from 80-10 meters.
Logged

K6OK

  • Member
  • Posts: 151
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2020, 08:37:50 PM »

Tonight I filled out and mailed the volunteer form for the architectural review board committee.

Smart move! Your HOA rules say all antennas are prohibited unless approved by the ARB... so, assuming you are selected to be on the ARB, you'll be able to schmooze, network and sell your proposal to the other board members.  In the mean time, you might want to connect with your local ham radio club to see what they do with regards to local public service and emergency preparedness, and use those as talking points with the ARB.
Logged

WU6R

  • Member
  • Posts: 87
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2020, 05:27:01 AM »

Tonight I filled out and mailed the volunteer form for the architectural review board committee.

... you might want to connect with your local ham radio club to see what they do with regards to local public service and emergency preparedness, and use those as talking points with the ARB.

Great idea-- I'll do so today. 

73, Mark WU6R
Logged
Mark

Mark Wheeler
WU6R
mark3575@icloud.com

K1VSK

  • Member
  • Posts: 1949
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2020, 05:58:16 AM »


The salient part here is:


HOA rules say, “ Antenna: .......

The ARB shall adopt rules for the installation of such antennas, which rules shall require that antennas be placed as inconspicuously as possible and screened from view; provided, .......”

The above directs your ARB to create language related to what may be acceptable. The first step is obvious for you - participate in the development of those rules. The rest is easy. Help write a performance -based rule easy to both understand and enforce based on visibility as described below, not some onerous language containing minutia about antenna design, height or size. The fundamental issue to HOAs is aesthetics - if people can’t see it, it’s inherently acceptable. That concept forms the basis for a reasonable rule.
Logged

WU6R

  • Member
  • Posts: 87
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2020, 06:01:46 AM »


The salient part here is:


HOA rules say, “ Antenna: .......

The ARB shall adopt rules for the installation of such antennas, which rules shall require that antennas be placed as inconspicuously as possible and screened from view; provided, .......”

The above directs your ARB to create language related to what may be acceptable. The first step is obvious for you - participate in the development of those rules. The rest is easy. Help write a performance -based rule easy to both understand and enforce based on visibility as described below, not some onerous language containing minutia about antenna design, height or size. The fundamental issue to HOAs is aesthetics - if people can’t see it, it’s inherently acceptable. That concept forms the basis for a reasonable rule.

Yes, agreed.  Thanks.
Logged
Mark

Mark Wheeler
WU6R
mark3575@icloud.com

W6QW

  • Member
  • Posts: 462
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2020, 08:52:49 AM »

Here's my advice (two cents) based on 30 years of HOA hamming experience:
1. Get to know your immediate neighbors.  Talk to them about the benefits of ham radio. Friendly relationships bolster your ability to persuade an Architectural committee and the endorsement of your surrounding neighbors will help your position.
2. I would start with a lower height - say 20 ft - to get them used to an antenna on your property.  Slowly grow it over time as everyone gets used to its presence.  I think your committee will oppose the 43ft height if you bluntly present it to them.
3. Emphasize that the vertical will be mostly out of sight (tilted down) so it will be "rarely" seen.  Build a automated tilt-up base using a linear actuator motor for long term convenience.  Easy to design/build.
Logged

K7JQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 2602
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2020, 04:16:59 PM »

Here's my advice (two cents) based on 30 years of HOA hamming experience:
1. Get to know your immediate neighbors.  Talk to them about the benefits of ham radio. Friendly relationships bolster your ability to persuade an Architectural committee and the endorsement of your surrounding neighbors will help your position.
2. I would start with a lower height - say 20 ft - to get them used to an antenna on your property.  Slowly grow it over time as everyone gets used to its presence.  I think your committee will oppose the 43ft height if you bluntly present it to them.
3. Emphasize that the vertical will be mostly out of sight (tilted down) so it will be "rarely" seen.  Build a automated tilt-up base using a linear actuator motor for long term convenience.  Easy to design/build.

Obviously good and logical advice...*IF* your neighbors AND the HOA are on board with your proposal. If not, you've just alerted both of them that you're a ham, and any antenna vaguely conspicuous will be dealt with accordingly. Something 20 feet high against a one-story house would be quite visible. I've also seen where a liberal HOA will say it's OK, only if your immediate neighbors don't object. Then you erect it, and the neighbor says..."Oh, I didn't know it would look like THAT"! Or you're RFIing into their TV surround sound system. Time to remove it and go to plan B...total stealth. Attic, roofline, or below a privacy fence.

As I said before, every scenario/situation is different. Our advice/experience is a start, and gives you something to consider. But you'll have to go with your gut feeling as to what's the best way to move forward, and improvise if necessary. Any antenna is better than no antenna.

73, Bob K7JQ
Logged

WW5F

  • Posts: 451
    • HomeURL
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2020, 07:06:18 AM »

Well, as already stated by others, the number one thing you can do in favor of hams in your neighborhood is get on the board.

My HOA is still controlled by the developer.  It will be handed over to the residents in the future.  And I plan to be the first president.

My CC&R's say, "no antenna higher than 15 feet over the apex of your roof."  I'm fine with that.

My developer has done a good job keeping the "busy bodies" in check.  I look forward to continuing this.

The only thing I'm not looking forward to is collecting dues every year and what I'll have to do if they don't pay.
Logged

W6QW

  • Member
  • Posts: 462
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2020, 11:08:31 AM »

I agree with W5UAA & K7JQ's pragmatic assessments.  WU6R's original post, however, is looking for advice from those who may have been successful in a preemptive presentation to a HOA Architectural Committee. 

This, of course, presents the conundrum of preemptive versus reactive approaches.  Based on my 30 years of HOA experience, I can only underline that the most successful approach will be determined on how parochial the HOA is.  I have lived in HOA environments where there is no CC&R flexibility and I gravitated to stealth antennas, as well as HOA's that were more flexible where I successfully used my previously posted suggestions.

As such, I would agree with the cautionary strategy unless there is compelling evidence to the contrary.   
Logged

WU6R

  • Member
  • Posts: 87
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2020, 05:19:02 PM »

Here's my advice (two cents) based on 30 years of HOA hamming experience:
1. Get to know your immediate neighbors.  Talk to them about the benefits of ham radio. Friendly relationships bolster your ability to persuade an Architectural committee and the endorsement of your surrounding neighbors will help your position.
2. I would start with a lower height - say 20 ft - to get them used to an antenna on your property.  Slowly grow it over time as everyone gets used to its presence.  I think your committee will oppose the 43ft height if you bluntly present it to them.
3. Emphasize that the vertical will be mostly out of sight (tilted down) so it will be "rarely" seen.  Build a automated tilt-up base using a linear actuator motor for long term convenience.  Easy to design/build.

That all makes a lot of sense.   
73, Mark
Logged
Mark

Mark Wheeler
WU6R
mark3575@icloud.com

K1VSK

  • Member
  • Posts: 1949
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2020, 05:32:55 PM »

Here's my advice (two cents) based on 30 years of HOA hamming experience:
1. Get to know your immediate neighbors.  Talk to them about the benefits of ham radio. Friendly relationships bolster your ability to persuade an Architectural committee and the endorsement of your surrounding neighbors will help your position.
Good advice. Our HOA required written consent for abutters.
Quote
2. I would start with a lower height - say 20 ft - to get them used to an antenna on your property.  Slowly grow it over time as everyone gets used to its presence.  I think your committee will oppose the 43ft height if you bluntly present it to them.
3. Emphasize that the vertical will be mostly out of sight (tilted down) so it will be "rarely" seen.  Build a automated tilt-up base using a linear actuator motor for long term convenience.  Easy to design/build.
Be careful what you wish for.... if you propose an easily retractable antenna, your AC is likely to require it be retracted during all daylight hours or some other onerous schedule. Or simply refuse anything visible to anyone. The objective here should be to emphasize a low impact to the aesthetics of the neighborhood.
Logged

WW5F

  • Posts: 451
    • HomeURL
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2020, 09:03:40 AM »

As I've previously stated, getting on the board, especially at its beginning, is the absolute best thing you can do to prevent the "busy bodies" from disallowing any installation of antennas at all.

But I'd also like to suggest reviewing the words in PRB-1.  As you make your initial assessment of the climate and personalities of your new architectural review board, there are probably words in the PRB-1 that can be selectively and carefully used to support your case for antenna installations in a non-threatening, positive manner.

http://www.arrl.org/prb-1
Logged

AC2EU

  • Member
  • Posts: 2793
    • McVey Electronics
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2020, 09:25:56 AM »



I appreciate everyone’s comments. This is all new to me... it fills a bit like navigating shoal water in a navy ship in the fog at night during a storm... keep calm, think through the problem, and seek sound advice from the experts...

73,
Mark

To continue the metaphor, you should first find out what ocean you’re in. Read the HOA rules - some have no antenna limitations.

Or he might run aground and have to abandon ship!  ;D

K7JQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 2602
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2020, 10:14:24 AM »


But I'd also like to suggest reviewing the words in PRB-1.  As you make your initial assessment of the climate and personalities of your new architectural review board, there are probably words in the PRB-1 that can be selectively and carefully used to support your case for antenna installations in a non-threatening, positive manner.

http://www.arrl.org/prb-1

Whereas some of the wording might be to your advantage, hopefully the ARB doesn't actually look up PRB-1, and find out that it has nothing to do with CC&R's.
Logged

KC9QBY

  • Member
  • Posts: 55
Re: Needed: HOA Presentation for Vertical 43' Antenna Install
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2020, 12:28:27 PM »

Hello,

Many good thoughts here already.  I have protective covenants with language akin to yours.  No presentation per se for you but my approach for approval was good faith, stealthy design while seeking reasonable accommodation for a modest plan, pointing out my plan was consistent with local ordinances.

I started with what I was NOT going to do, e.g. pictures of big farms with yagis on towers.  I presented one plan with multiple antenna options.  I did earn approval for a modest mast on which a 6M ringo and an EF dipole is mounted.  They did not go for inverted V dipoles. No trees to use.  I have a couple of screwdriver types deck rail mounted as well, radial field out of scope for approval because they are ground staked, not viewable.  These are all in back of the house and located so they cannot be seen from house front. The house apex is about 27’.  It was important to approval that they they not be visible from house front, and I was able to meet that criteria.

Antennas in attic are or will include discone for V/UHF.  Very happy with its performance.  A 40/20M double bazooka is going up in attic in next weeks.  Plans for amp are modest on presumption of RFIing neighbors and then sending myself out of approval.

I discussed flagpole options directly and approval point of view was that they could not restrict a flagpole even if it also had antenna purpose. YMMV on this.  Turns out the screwdrivers were waaay less pricey, but that would have been “Plan B”.

Happy to discuss directly if desired, QRZ email good.

73 and good luck,

Chuck  KC9QBY

Logged
73,  Chuck  KC9QBY
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up