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Author Topic: AMSAT BB Censorship  (Read 1243 times)

N6MST

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2020, 09:13:50 AM »

hams with tons of time and the skills needed to build space qualified hardware
Where are these mythical beasts found? What sort of training gives them the skills needed to build space-certified hardware? I am always looking for ideas to inspire and motivate my 7 year-old  :)
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W1VT

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2020, 10:26:58 AM »

https://www.nar.org/
A good starting point for a 7 year old is to build and fly model rockets at an organized model rocket launch.
A Range Safety Officer normally checks the rocket out to make sure it is safe to fly.  At many launches kids fly free.

https://www.nar.org/find-a-local-club/nar-club-locator
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N6MST

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2020, 10:37:25 AM »

https://www.nar.org/
A good starting point for a 7 year old is to build and fly model rockets at an organized model rocket launch.
A Range Safety Officer normally checks the rocket out to make sure it is safe to fly.  At many launches kids fly free.

https://www.nar.org/find-a-local-club/nar-club-locator

Interestingly enough I just found out about NAR yesterday afternoon. My son and I started building a couple model rockets and the Estes rocket had an NAR flyer enclosed. There is a club about an hour from us that I have spoken with in the past but didn't realize it was a NAR club. Thanks for the heads up!

For everyone else, sorry for hijacking the thread. Back to normal operations!
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W4HIJ

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2020, 02:50:40 PM »

There's an HEO satellite already built or mostly built anyway by AMSAT DL but they can't find an affordable ride for it. It would seem that it would behoove the entire international satellite community to help find and fund that ride but as it is right now AMSAT NA doesn't even apply for grants. For some strange reason they have an aversion to doing so. There is money out there and a"non profit" refuses to apply for it! How crazy is that? They had no problem applying for a "Paycheck Protection Loan" funded by taxpayers though. Last I checked, they have a total of one salaried employee.
73,
Michael W4HIJ
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W1VT

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2020, 03:53:35 PM »

As I understand it, that HEO was a backup to Oscar 13, an 85 kg or 187 lb satellite that was designed to integrate closely with Arianne Rockets of that era.

AMSAT-OSCAR 13 was launched into its highly elliptical orbit on 15 June 1988 with the first test launch of the European ARIANE 4 launch vehicle. It was available to the approximately two million radio amateurs of the earth for intercontinental direct connections.
https://amsat-dl.org/en/amsat-phase-3-c-oscar-13/

Arianne 5 is being phased out and Arianne 6 is scheduled to test launch next year.

The last launch of the Arianne 4 was in 2003.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 03:56:16 PM by W1VT »
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W4HIJ

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2020, 09:03:16 PM »

As I understand it, that HEO was a backup to Oscar 13, an 85 kg or 187 lb satellite that was designed to integrate closely with Arianne Rockets of that era.

AMSAT-OSCAR 13 was launched into its highly elliptical orbit on 15 June 1988 with the first test launch of the European ARIANE 4 launch vehicle. It was available to the approximately two million radio amateurs of the earth for intercontinental direct connections.
https://amsat-dl.org/en/amsat-phase-3-c-oscar-13/

Arianne 5 is being phased out and Arianne 6 is scheduled to test launch next year.

The last launch of the Arianne 4 was in 2003.
Information on P3-E and it's overall status has become increasingly hard to find in the last few years but if I recall correctly it was still considered viable during the 2010 to 2016 timeline when I was still active on the birds so those timelines don't exactly jibe. It was talked about A LOT. I'm no expert and I don't know for sure though. One thing is for sure though, there has been nothing but stagnation since it became clear that it was going to be hard to find that bird a ride. That's been my main complaint about AMSAT NA and why I stopped supporting it. They seem to be content to rest on their past laurels and haven't done anything of substance for years.
Michael, W4HIJ
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 09:11:18 PM by W4HIJ »
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W1VT

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2020, 05:52:53 AM »

They may have been thinking of the first test flight of Arianne 6 to get to HEO.  It is too late for that now.  It may be a long time before Arianne 7 is launched.
First flights have a higher risk factor which makes them less attractive to customers who can afford to pay for a reliable launcher.
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WE4B

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2020, 12:53:48 PM »

Does the ARRL ban members for expressing their opinions of the organization? What about the RSGB? Nope. They don't. Only AMSAT-NA does this in an attempt to protect the clubhouse of the 'good old boys'. This is why AMSAT-NA continues on its #DownwardSpiral.

No amateur radio organization that is comprised of members who have to pay to be a member should ban and discriminate against its members but AMSAT-NA does do this and does not deny doing so. There is no way for members to appeal being banned and discriminated against.

AMSAT-NA is a very poor excuse for an amateur radio organization.

http://we4bravo.com
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AC2EU

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2020, 02:07:06 PM »

Does the ARRL ban members for expressing their opinions of the organization? What about the RSGB? Nope. They don't. Only AMSAT-NA does this in an attempt to protect the clubhouse of the 'good old boys'. This is why AMSAT-NA continues on its #DownwardSpiral.

No amateur radio organization that is comprised of members who have to pay to be a member should ban and discriminate against its members but AMSAT-NA does do this and does not deny doing so. There is no way for members to appeal being banned and discriminated against.

AMSAT-NA is a very poor excuse for an amateur radio organization.

http://we4bravo.com

Looks like it's time to stop complaining about AMSAT because they don't want to hear about it.
If you were a member, don't renew your membership.

Why not get a bunch of like -minded individual together and start a better version of AMSAT.
Someone said that AMSAT was loathe to apply for grants. Perhaps the new organization can do what they can't/won't do.

W5PFG

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2020, 04:14:45 AM »

W4HIJ, are you a paid member of AMSAT? If not, when were you last current?
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WE4B

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2020, 05:25:41 PM »

I'm curious why an ex-President of AMSAT-NA who gave-up the presidency amid questions of ethical issues that occurred under his watch is now asking others if they are members and when they were last current.

This ex-President of AMSAT-NA was not willing to help any members that weren't his special friends while he was President.

The fact remains that unless one walks in 'lock step' with the legacy, incumbent AMSAT-NA Board members they will be subject to being censored. In my case, in violation of AMSAT-NA bylaws. Of course these legacy incumbents have no problem violating bylaws and Washington, DC corporate code and don't deny doing so. Not once have they ever denied being involved in conspiracies against members or even other Board members. This, of course, has all been documented here:

http://amsat.wd9ewk.net

This is just more of the typical bad press that AMSAT-NA generates for themselves and par-for-the-course when it comes to members having alternate viewpoints than those of AMSAT-NA legacy, incumbent Board members. What an amazing legacy these people have created for their tenure as AMSAT-NA 'leaders'. This legacy includes failed satellites with no answers to members who have asked what happened and a legacy of malfeasance.

The past two AMSAT-NA Presidents have resigned why under scrutiny of questions involving ethics. I predict the newly anointed President, who also is under scrutiny of ethic violations, won't last very long either.

A once great organization has devolved into a second rate clubhouse for a select few. Like I said, all of the current issues have been documented by a current AMSAT-NA Board member here:

http://amsat.wd9ewk.net

I am simply pointing out what has been documented and my experiences in dealing with the unethical actions of the legacy incumbents that continue to use AMSAT-NA as their personal clubhouse rather than representing members of the organization in an ethical manner.
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W4HIJ

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2020, 01:37:57 PM »

W4HIJ, are you a paid member of AMSAT? If not, when were you last current?

No I'm not and I haven't been for quite sometime. I stopped financially supporting AMSAT because I felt it no longer represented my interest in satellites. I have watched a decade long period of stagnation and finally just threw up my hands and decided that was dues money I no longer wished to piss away every year. However, I remained a member of the BB and followed along holding out hope for change. I literally kept a written out dues check here on my desk just waiting for an amount and a date. I was ready to mail it at anytime I saw some sort of forward progress or positive change. Alas it never happened and only continues to get worse. My banishment from the BB for simply being the least bit critical of the organization was the last straw and I tore up the check.
 
I guess my paltry little dues check is of little consequence to the "good ole boy club" in charge but I know at least six other people in my circle of ham friends who feel the same as I do and have also stopped paying dues or have declined to join altogether. Maybe they are inconsequential too but I suspect our sentiments are more widely held in the general amateur community than the current management of AMSAT would like to believe.

Honestly, it would not even take that much for me to rejoin. Reinstatement to the BB and the end to the censorship there allowing open and healthy discussion about the organizations short comings and failures as well as it's successes would go a long way towards restoring my faith and I'm sure the faith of many others but we all know that's not going to happen under the current leadership.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 01:40:41 PM by W4HIJ »
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VE3WGO

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2020, 03:51:27 PM »

I stopped being an AMSAT-NA member something like 15 years ago, when it became clear that the organization was really only interested in FM LEO sats.  I understand some of the reasons for this direction, but I was not enthused by the single-mindedness of it.

Meanwhile many other countries have had very diverse and successful programs getting multiple-mode and multiple-band satellites built and launched.  So many interesting ones, by so many countries.  Of course the standout is China, where they have recently built and launched a large number of multi-mode and multi-band LEO sats, and seem to have taken the lead when it comes to space program enthusiasm and success.

Then over time, we heard more frequently from AMSAT-NA about increasing financial troubles, along with rather large amounts of money being spent to design and build satellite hardware, by some contracted company.  This made me wonder what a skilled, industry-connected, volunteer non-profit like AMSAT-NA was thinking when it decided to pay a contractor thousands of dollars to do what was essentially AMSAT's job.  Maybe my view and information were inaccurate, but that's what I thought.  I really was annoyed by the seemingly endless spending of money that the organization seemed to be caught up in.  And now we hear that even recently AMSAT-NA was using funds paid by membership dues to retain lawyers!  What on earth does AMSAT leadership have any business spending valuable and increasingly scarce membership dues money for legal protection?  And for protection from its own from Board members no less!   Ridiculous.  That money is supposed to be for building and launching satellites, and for education purposes.  AMSAT-NA's own Mission statement starts with this: "AMSAT’s goal is to foster Amateur Radio’s participation in space research and communication."  I don't see any mention of the goal being to support legal squabbling between members of the Board or Leadership team.

I searched extensively to uncover membership records of AMSAT-NA over the years and through various means I found out how it successfully grew over 30 times in size in the 1970s and 1980s, but also how drastically its membership had crashed from somewhere around 8000 members in the mid-1990s to something like 3100 by 2012.  It seems to have recovered a a few percent since then, but is still struggling to grow, in spite of the large number of satellites in orbit and users these days.  Am I surprised?  Because of the above disturbing topics, I am not at all surprised.

I wanted to rejoin AMSAT-NA.  But with all the shenanigans I've heard about going on there, it is increasingly unlikely that it will happen. 

I think I will just join AMSAT-UK instead.

73, Ed
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W4HIJ

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2020, 01:49:09 PM »

I stopped being an AMSAT-NA member something like 15 years ago, when it became clear that the organization was really only interested in FM LEO sats.  I understand some of the reasons for this direction, but I was not enthused by the single-mindedness of it.

Meanwhile many other countries have had very diverse and successful programs getting multiple-mode and multiple-band satellites built and launched.  So many interesting ones, by so many countries.  Of course the standout is China, where they have recently built and launched a large number of multi-mode and multi-band LEO sats, and seem to have taken the lead when it comes to space program enthusiasm and success.

Then over time, we heard more frequently from AMSAT-NA about increasing financial troubles, along with rather large amounts of money being spent to design and build satellite hardware, by some contracted company.  This made me wonder what a skilled, industry-connected, volunteer non-profit like AMSAT-NA was thinking when it decided to pay a contractor thousands of dollars to do what was essentially AMSAT's job.  Maybe my view and information were inaccurate, but that's what I thought.  I really was annoyed by the seemingly endless spending of money that the organization seemed to be caught up in.  And now we hear that even recently AMSAT-NA was using funds paid by membership dues to retain lawyers!  What on earth does AMSAT leadership have any business spending valuable and increasingly scarce membership dues money for legal protection?  And for protection from its own from Board members no less!   Ridiculous.  That money is supposed to be for building and launching satellites, and for education purposes.  AMSAT-NA's own Mission statement starts with this: "AMSAT’s goal is to foster Amateur Radio’s participation in space research and communication."  I don't see any mention of the goal being to support legal squabbling between members of the Board or Leadership team.

I searched extensively to uncover membership records of AMSAT-NA over the years and through various means I found out how it successfully grew over 30 times in size in the 1970s and 1980s, but also how drastically its membership had crashed from somewhere around 8000 members in the mid-1990s to something like 3100 by 2012.  It seems to have recovered a a few percent since then, but is still struggling to grow, in spite of the large number of satellites in orbit and users these days.  Am I surprised?  Because of the above disturbing topics, I am not at all surprised.

I wanted to rejoin AMSAT-NA.  But with all the shenanigans I've heard about going on there, it is increasingly unlikely that it will happen. 

I think I will just join AMSAT-UK instead.

73, Ed
This opinion and my opinion are much the same and held by an increasingly large number of amateurs. AMSAT NA is dying a slow death and their response is to try and close up ranks and hire lawyers using membership funds when a couple of maverick directors tried to shine a light on the inner workings of their "good ole boy club". That and impose the dictatorial censorship of the BB in order to quash the growing dissent. You'll notice that very few people will come to their defense here in a free and open forum. Wonder why that is?
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
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W5PFG

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2020, 05:04:38 AM »

Quote
I'm curious why an ex-President of AMSAT-NA who gave-up the presidency amid questions of ethical issues that occurred under his watch is now asking others if they are members and when they were last current.

I asked W4HIJ if he was a member. He is not.  I asked how long he hasn't been a member - apparently for several years. Therefore, the theme of "another member has been censored" is completely false.

It's likely, if it hasn't already happened, someone will Tweet or blog a lie stating that W4HIJ is a member that has been censored, ignoring the facts: (A) he is not a member and (B) he admittedly violated the terms of service (acceptable use policy) of the AMSAT service on this thread.

It's interesting to note that because I made a post on this thread, someone here immediately went to attack-mode, making libelous statements.
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