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Author Topic: AMSAT BB Censorship  (Read 1244 times)

K6LCS

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2020, 04:17:31 PM »

You mean WE4B and ‘HIJ have been misrepresenting themselves and the truth all along?

Wow ... interesting. But seeing their writings for years, not surprising.
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Clint Bradford, K6LCS
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W9FIB

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2020, 03:41:40 AM »

Just curious...since I don't see much activity; what is AMSAT-NA actually doing? What projects are being built and flown? What are the future projects? Maybe instead of bickering, those basic questions could be answered to help the rest of us decide if supporting AMSAT is worth the money and effort.

Just a thought.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K6LCS

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2020, 04:05:30 AM »

A lot of info on their home page - projects well worth supporting ...

https://www.amsat.org/
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Clint Bradford, K6LCS
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W4HIJ

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2020, 08:51:26 AM »

Last I looked, being a member was not a requirement for participation on the BB. I also made my reasons clear why I'm not a member which obviously went right by you as it apparently does with AMSAT leadership. It's a rudderless and stagnant organization. As far as violating terms of use, all I admitted to was losing my cool a bit with someone and being put on moderated status. It's worth noting that this person is a known shill and conman who uses AMSAT for his own self promotion and personal gain but what got me kicked off the board wasn't even about that. What got me kicked is that I dared to be the slightest bit critical of AMSAT. I made a comment about their obvious and decided penchant for launching FM birds and mostly nothing else. I asked, tongue in cheek, when they were going to start launching "real" satellites again. So that violated terms of service?
 The whole point of this thread is about blatant censorship. The slightest bit of criticism or dissent and you're gone. I really don't care anymore, I've moved on but I did want to say my piece somewhere I wouldn't be censored because I think the amateur community as a whole deserves to know what's going on with what was once a proud organization. Again, it's worth noting that rather than try to respond in a constructive manner, the first impulse is to try to discredit me because "I'm not a member". So sad. You'd think they would want to do everything they can to get my dues coming in again. That's the attitude most successful non profit organizations have but not AMSAT. The leadership is obviously too thin skinned for that and their response is hostility towards anyone who would dare to question them.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
 

Quote
I'm curious why an ex-President of AMSAT-NA who gave-up the presidency amid questions of ethical issues that occurred under his watch is now asking others if they are members and when they were last current.

I asked W4HIJ if he was a member. He is not.  I asked how long he hasn't been a member - apparently for several years. Therefore, the theme of "another member has been censored" is completely false.

It's likely, if it hasn't already happened, someone will Tweet or blog a lie stating that W4HIJ is a member that has been censored, ignoring the facts: (A) he is not a member and (B) he admittedly violated the terms of service (acceptable use policy) of the AMSAT service on this thread.

It's interesting to note that because I made a post on this thread, someone here immediately went to attack-mode, making libelous statements.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 09:04:00 AM by W4HIJ »
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VE3WGO

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2020, 11:53:12 AM »

After reading over the latest on the GOLF project at https://www.amsat.org/greater-orbit-larger-footprint-an-introduction-to-the-amsat-golf-program/ , and especially the report from the 2020 AMSAT symposium at https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/GOLF-TEE_2020_AMSAT_Symposium.pdf , I might change my mind..... I might actually want to join AMSAT-NA to support this!

But the club certainly must improve its public image, ham fraternity image, and its general communications strategy to encourage new membership growth.  Most hams in general seemingly never hear much about or from AMSAT at all, due to its rather quiet, almost cliquey, existence.  It also needs to improve acceptance of change and diverse opinions, so that hams don't get turned off when they share alternate views.  Major improvements are needed in most of these areas in my view, before membership levels can be expected to increase significantly.  And they do need to increase...  non-university ham satellites keep getting more expensive to test and launch, even when the design and construction is done by volunteers.

The GOLF-TEE project needs much improved openness and publicity, even on AMSAT's own home page. Perhaps ads on ARRL website homepage and/or technical pages would also be good.... assuming the return on investment makes it worthwhile.

There is hope that AMSAT-NA can improve.  It can grow.  But only if the leadership team has the will to make the needed adjustments.

73, Ed
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WE4B

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2020, 05:16:29 PM »

You mean WE4B and ‘HIJ have been misrepresenting themselves and the truth all along?

Nothing misrepresented here. We know that's a fact because not one legacy, incumbent Board member has EVER denied there have been conspiracies which have caused tens of thousands of members' monies to be misspent. Once again, NONE of them have ever denied this fact. Just to say it again, none of the legacy, incumbent Board members have ever denied being involved in documented conspiracies.

As others have mentioned in this forum thread, it's no secret that AMSAT-NA is an clubhouse for legacy, incumbent Board members and their cronies. It's very visible and obvious from outsiders which includes potential members, donors that no longer donate and even the ARRL has a dim view of AMSAT-NA.

ARISS has now created their own organization and distanced themselves from AMSAT-NA and AMSAT-NA no longer has a high profile, high visibility way to raise funds. While other organizations such as ORI and Libre Space continue to grow, flourish and pull-in hundreds of thousands of dollars in grant money and donations, AMSAT-NA has been left in the dust while relying on those who are hucksters, snake oil salesmen and those that continuously pat themselves on the back to try to run interference. The interference is used in an effort to keep people from watching the incumbent, legacy Board members use the money of members to fund their private clubhouse.

Heck, all you have to do is look at this forum thread where you will see members and non-members all stating that AMSAT-NA has a horrible public image and is known for its questionable operation. We did have an ex-Secretary and President (he quit both jobs) of AMSAT-NA attempt to run some interference but that just shows, and confirms, how AMSAT-NA operates. There is always a lot of criticism of the ARRL but the politics of the ARRL pales in comparison with how the legacy, incumbent Board members operates AMSAT-NA and how they consistently treat outsiders (and members who disagree with them). None of this is a secret. To see what has happened within AMSAT-NA in the past couple of years all one has to do is visit the blog of a current Board member (he has no reason to lie and is a current Board member):

http://amsat.wd9ewk.net

When one visits that link they will learn all they need to do about how the legacy, incumbent, Board members operate. It's an embarrassment to members and is why AMSAT-NA finds itself being the butt of many jokes and not able to raise funds like other amateur radio organizations.

Folks, let's face it, AMSAT-NA is not in a good position right now. They don't have a way to raise funds of any consequence. Due to actions of legacy, incumbent Board members, the organization finds itself as being viewed by the amateur radio community as a second-rate organization and in a position to lose the non-profit status of the organization. I'm a member of AMSAT-NA and it makes me sad that a once great organization now finds itself in such a position. It really does. Heck, the VP of Engineering for AMSAT-NA isn't even an engineer. It doesn't get much more sad than that but that is what has happened to AMSAT-NA. This is ALL fact and is NOT a misrepresentation of anything.

So... in final, people can either rely on hucksters saying people misrepresent things or visit the blog of a current AMSAT-NA Board member (http://amsat.wd9ewk.net) and learn what REALLY happens within AMSAT-NA with facts and without smoke, mirrors and the snake oil of those that pat themselves on the back.

By the way... I wonder how those batteries on SO-50 are holding-up? <grin>
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K6LCS

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2020, 01:50:53 AM »

>> ... Perhaps ads on ARRL website homepage and/or technical pages would also be good ...

What kind of "ads" do you think would be appropriate? Equipment dealers?

Clint Bradford K6LCS 
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W4HIJ

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2020, 11:52:28 AM »

That's the thing. I WANT to support AMSAT. I really do! I'd love nothing more than to write them a check or make a credit card payment for dues right this very minute. Can't do it though, not in good conscious. There's no guarantee where those funds are going. The thin skinned BOD might use them to hire more lawyers the next time someone makes a perfectly reasonable request for transparency. I didn't have the organization logo printed on my QSL cards because I wanted be at odds with them but I can't abide a non-profit organization that won't listen to concerns of the community and actively censors the slightest criticism or dissent.
 They can change if they want to but right now they seem to have no desire to address their problems. Allowing civil discussion of those problems on the BB would be a good start but we've all seen the immediate reaction to that here on this thread by those that supposedly speak for them. It basically amounted to...."Since you're not a member, screw you" instead of "We are sorry you have concerns, what can we do to help work this out and regain your support?" It's pretty much that simple.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ

After reading over the latest on the GOLF project at https://www.amsat.org/greater-orbit-larger-footprint-an-introduction-to-the-amsat-golf-program/ , and especially the report from the 2020 AMSAT symposium at https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/GOLF-TEE_2020_AMSAT_Symposium.pdf , I might change my mind..... I might actually want to join AMSAT-NA to support this!

But the club certainly must improve its public image, ham fraternity image, and its general communications strategy to encourage new membership growth.  Most hams in general seemingly never hear much about or from AMSAT at all, due to its rather quiet, almost cliquey, existence.  It also needs to improve acceptance of change and diverse opinions, so that hams don't get turned off when they share alternate views.  Major improvements are needed in most of these areas in my view, before membership levels can be expected to increase significantly.  And they do need to increase...  non-university ham satellites keep getting more expensive to test and launch, even when the design and construction is done by volunteers.

The GOLF-TEE project needs much improved openness and publicity, even on AMSAT's own home page. Perhaps ads on ARRL website homepage and/or technical pages would also be good.... assuming the return on investment makes it worthwhile.

There is hope that AMSAT-NA can improve.  It can grow.  But only if the leadership team has the will to make the needed adjustments.

73, Ed
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 11:54:50 AM by W4HIJ »
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VE3WGO

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2020, 07:44:43 AM »

>> ... Perhaps ads on ARRL website homepage and/or technical pages would also be good ...

What kind of "ads" do you think would be appropriate? Equipment dealers?

Clint Bradford K6LCS

I was imagining something along the lines of an ad about the exciting upcoming Golf-Tee sat, join Amsat to support it, click here.

But I agree with W4HIJ that we don't know where Amsat member dues actually get spent.  That's a secret.

Most clubs that I have been a member of over the years (ham radio, astronomy, photography) have discussed finances (revenues, spending) at least once a year with members.  A red flag should go up if a club won't share that with members.  These non-profit organizations are special entities in the eyes of the taxman, so maybe there are ways to root out the info for ones that don't want to share?

ARRL even posts its annual reports for public viewing, with revenues and spending details.  Now that's what I'd call full disclosure!   http://www.arrl.org/annual-reports

73, Ed
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WE4B

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2020, 09:22:39 AM »

AMSAT-NA does post its IRS form on its website along with other legally required forms. With that said, it can be difficult for members to truly know where money is spent. If you look at the most recently posted financial forms, you would never know that the legacy, incumbent Board members were involved in a conspiracy against the two newest Board members (source: http://amsat.Wd9ewk.net ) and through this conspiracy, over $10K of member monies were spent in violation of AMSAT-NA bylaws and Washington DC corporate code. This has never been denied by any of the the legacy, incumbent Board members.

So... even though AMSAT-NA does post the required financial forms on their web site, they don’t really tell entire stories of what’s happening within AMSAT-NA.
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AC2EU

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2020, 09:37:35 AM »

In my experience with radio clubs, the ones with entrenched leadership that operated almost autonomously, are to be avoided.
Nothing will change unless they resign or there is a member revolt of some kind.

I visited the AMSAT website and was underwhelmed. There are very few details about the project and how things are done there. ( other than a reference to the humble, unselfish volunteers) . The president also makes it clear that he's not taking any input from the peanut gallery. Yeah, that really makes me want to join.  ::)

Even the "get involved page" only has an email to contact. At very least, I would think they should list what kind of "jobs" are available for volunteers. maybe some pictures and details about said jobs as well.

It does seem rather "stand offish" and mysterious.

Full disclosure: I am not currently involved in ham satellites. There is nothing on the AMSAT  site that makes me want to either!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 09:41:00 AM by AC2EU »
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K6LCS

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2020, 10:36:45 AM »

I have said for YEARS that every club/organization NEEDS a good marketing person or public relations professional among its ranks ...

Yes - a visit to AMSAT-UK's Web site is more, well, "exciting" than a visit to AMSAT-NA's. (Or NASA's - bot they have a little larger budget.) There's a lot of info on AMSAT-NA ... but the "presentation" could be made more, well, marketable.

Oh - some interference above read: " ... incumbent Board members were involved in a conspiracy against the two newest Board members (source: [another malcontent] ) and through this conspiracy, over $10K of member monies were spent in violation of AMSAT-NA bylaws and Washington DC corporate code ... "

This wanabe/malcontent ran twice for AMSAT-NA's board, and came in dead last both times. For a reason: People see through lies and misrepresentation and innuendo and wild conspiracy theories. It doesn't matter how many times lies are posted or Tweeted, they are still lies.

There is no "conspiracy" nor anything illegal for a 501(c)(3) board to spend monies that were allocated in a budge - period.

Tweets and message group posts are not "evidence." Again, there's a reason he came in dead last - twice.

Clint Bradford K6LCS
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WE4B

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2020, 11:40:38 AM »

Per the American Heritage Dictionary, the definition of a conspiracy is:

“An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.”

Since all of AMSAT-NA’s BoDs, with the exception of the two being conspired against, came together, in secret with no authorized Board meeting and no minutes of this secret Board meeting, they conspired. This is fact. It can not be debated. There was no Board meeting authorizing expenditures to persecute the two Board members which aren’t part of the ‘old boys club’. There are no minutes since the meeting was held in secret. This is a documented fact. There is no denying it.

When the conspirators were caught and this was revealed (source: http://amsat.wd9ewk.net ) the President (who just quit yet another AMSAT-NA position) even published a memorandum on the AMSAT-NA web site where he did NOT deny that this conspiracy took place. It has never, not once, ever been denied. Let me repeat so all will understand. There has never been a denial that a conspiracy took place against two Board members which cost members over $10K dollars.

Unlike some JFK conspiracy theories which are pushed by snake oil salesmen and hucksters, this conspiracy with AMSAT-NA did happen. It is documented and has been admitted to by those involved. This conspiracy and misuse of members’ monies has put AMSAT-NA into an even darker place than it was before this happened.

I’ll say it again, AMSAT-NA is viewed as a second rate organization by most. This is quite obvious from people posting in this thread who don’t have a dog in the fight. AMSAT-NA has no fundraising opportunities and AMSAT-NA doesn’t seek grants. ORI has been awarded over $600K in grants this year. AMSAT-NA hasn’t even applied for any grants and leadership has stated in public that they don’t desire any grant money.

Simple research reveals all of this to be true. It’s fact. It has never been denied and can’t be denied because conspirators have admitted it.

It’s easy for snake oil salesmen and hucksters attempt to run interference but it’s easy to point out, with credible and factual evidence that snake oil is just that, snake oil.

The AMSAT-NA VP of Engineering isn’t even an (educated and degreed) engineer. If AMSAT-NA can’t even have an engineer leading satellite building activities, how can you expect the web site to be up to date and credible?

Things like credibility, apparently, aren’t important to the legacy, incumbent Board members. What is important is having a clubhouse where the money of others can be spent and where anyone with an alternate viewpoint of running the organization can be silenced.

This thread is just more evidence of the bad press which AMSAT-NA talks about in private. This thread is an example of where incumbents use people who are “unencumbered” (spoken by the AMSAT-NA EVP) to run interference and to deflect from the real, documented issues.

I haven’t made anything of this up. It’s all documented. Start here: http://amsat.Wd9ewk.net and follow the links. All of this has been backed-up with paperwork and, once again, none of the legacy, incumbent Board members deny it.

So, once again, I’ve written a lot of words. I’ve given links to credible sources which document what has happened and is happening within the AMSAT-NA Board of Directors. Just remember, these legacy, incumbents will meet in secret to attempt to persecute members but refuse to have regular Board meetings to manage the organization. It really is a sad state of affairs but it is what it is. People are opening their eyes. This thread is proof of that. I implore people to use critical thinking skills; do their own research and ignore snake oil or Tang salesmen and hucksters. I’ve provided the links which will start anyone on their journey to enlightenment. Babylon must fall.

Cheers and 73
http://we4bravo.com
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AC2EU

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2020, 12:03:22 PM »

I have said for YEARS that every club/organization NEEDS a good marketing person or public relations professional among its ranks ...

Yes - a visit to AMSAT-UK's Web site is more, well, "exciting" than a visit to AMSAT-NA's. (Or NASA's - bot they have a little larger budget.) There's a lot of info on AMSAT-NA ... but the "presentation" could be made more, well, marketable.

Oh - some interference above read: " ... incumbent Board members were involved in a conspiracy against the two newest Board members (source: [another malcontent] ) and through this conspiracy, over $10K of member monies were spent in violation of AMSAT-NA bylaws and Washington DC corporate code ... "

This wanabe/malcontent ran twice for AMSAT-NA's board, and came in dead last both times. For a reason: People see through lies and misrepresentation and innuendo and wild conspiracy theories. It doesn't matter how many times lies are posted or Tweeted, they are still lies.

There is no "conspiracy" nor anything illegal for a 501(c)(3) board to spend monies that were allocated in a budge - period.

Tweets and message group posts are not "evidence." Again, there's a reason he came in dead last - twice.

Clint Bradford K6LCS

I can see a pattern developing here.
You as an ambassador meet my comment about the website with a budget excuse.
How much would some amateur member videos and few pictures  with some text cost?

Your president dismisses any comments by calling them "brilliant ideas" with dripping sarcasm.
Instead ,why not say "hey, that's a great idea, I'm making you chairman of the committee to get it done."
Perhaps that would be giving up too much control?

In short, AMSAT can't do this , cant do that and isn't going to try either. So why would I want to join?

Apparently the OP has some budget allocation beef.  As a member , he should have a right to express his dissent without being labeled a malcontent. That makes AMSAT truly sound like a dictatorship coming from it's ambassador.  ( have you considered the possibility that maybe someone  DID spend inappropriately?)
It also seems odd that the organization used member funds to retain a lawyer over the matter. That is not the mission!
Something doesn't sound right.






K6LCS

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Re: AMSAT BB Censorship
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2020, 12:18:08 PM »

>> ... Apparently the OP has some budget allocation beef.  As a member ...

He's not a member of anything ...

>> ... he should have a right to express his dissent without being labeled a malcontent.

Incessant whining ... misrepresenting the truth ... crying that he was tossed out of a group because - he admitted - he broke the rules ... That is a problem child under anyone's definition.

>> ... It also seems odd that the organization used member funds to retain a lawyer over the matter ...

Were member funds used? And does it matter? A budget was in place. An organization felt threatened. They spent ALLOCATED funds to protect themselves ...

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Clint Bradford, K6LCS
AMSAT Ambassador, ARRL Affiliated Club Coordinator
http://www.work-sat.com
909-999-SATS
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