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Author Topic: TECH ONLY  (Read 898 times)

AC2EU

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2020, 11:33:51 AM »

Amateur radio operators and CB operators are both people who enjoy wireless communication. They both have to assemble a station to some extent.
So what makes them different?
I can only guess that amateur operators take radio more seriously, are more inclined to know more radio theory.
There has got to more to it than that!

When the Amateurs take a test, they realize there is more responsibility to being on the air than buying a rig and keying the mic.  There is a band plan, rules ,operating courtesy, etc. All of this is imparted by studying for the exam.
Besides that, they must think about it in a more serious way to even take a test in the first place! If they didn't, they would go with CB.

W6MK

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2020, 12:10:31 PM »

Amateur radio operators and CB operators are both people who enjoy wireless communication.

They both have to assemble a station to some extent.

So what makes them different?

For one thing, which you have notably overlooked, there is a sense and knowledge of history in amateur radio. History of science as well as communications.

Smartphone, internet, wifi, TV and radio users also enjoy wireless communications. They usually also lack an interest in and knowledge of physics, RF engineering and science history.

Amateurs not only purchase communications gear, they also, usually, have some useful ideas of how their gear works. To some degree, even today, amateurs build their gear, if only their own antennas or interconnecting cables and devices. At one time amateurs designed and constructed much or all of their gear.

Big differences. Perhaps not obvious to those with history-free educations who only know about life in consumer culture.
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TMA34

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2020, 04:36:42 PM »

Amateur radio operators and CB operators are both people who enjoy wireless communication. They both have to assemble a station to some extent.
So what makes them different?
I can only guess that amateur operators take radio more seriously, are more inclined to know more radio theory.
There has got to more to it than that!

When the Amateurs take a test, they realize there is more responsibility to being on the air than buying a rig and keying the mic.  There is a band plan, rules ,operating courtesy, etc. All of this is imparted by studying for the exam.
Besides that, they must think about it in a more serious way to even take a test in the first place! If they didn't, they would go with CB.


Currently a 5th grader could pass all 3 exams and know nothing about radio other than memorizing questions and right answers. 

If you think that the people in 2020 taking the current exam care about being responsible on the air and really care and are serious about it. 

One way to find out.  Take away the published test questions and bring back the CW requirement. 

Then see how many people show up to test.  Simple. 
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AC2EU

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2020, 06:20:51 PM »

Amateur radio operators and CB operators are both people who enjoy wireless communication. They both have to assemble a station to some extent.
So what makes them different?
I can only guess that amateur operators take radio more seriously, are more inclined to know more radio theory.
There has got to more to it than that!

When the Amateurs take a test, they realize there is more responsibility to being on the air than buying a rig and keying the mic.  There is a band plan, rules ,operating courtesy, etc. All of this is imparted by studying for the exam.
Besides that, they must think about it in a more serious way to even take a test in the first place! If they didn't, they would go with CB.


Currently a 5th grader could pass all 3 exams and know nothing about radio other than memorizing questions and right answers. 

If you think that the people in 2020 taking the current exam care about being responsible on the air and really care and are serious about it. 

One way to find out.  Take away the published test questions and bring back the CW requirement. 

Then see how many people show up to test.  Simple.


Says the guy with no license at all!   ::)  ::)  :o

W6MK

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2020, 06:34:04 PM »

Currently a 5th grader could pass all 3 exams and know nothing... 

People in 2020 taking the current exam care about being responsible...

One way to find out...bring back the CW requirement. 

Simple.
Yes many youngsters pass all three exams. I wouldn't assert, however, that they "know nothing." Your evidence is?

Most people, in all sorts of endeavors, do have a sense of responsibility. This sense can be
enhanced by effective enforcement of rules. Which we lack currently.

I think in Japan which has historically had a very high number of licensees has also maintained a Code (not CW by the way) exam. As far as I know the relationship between
the requirement to learn a special skill and the number of people who lose interest as a result has not been scientifically explored.

I don't think it's unreasonable or impractical to require a small learning task in order to
get some kind of license. Morse Code remains useful because CW is a very efficient and practical way to communicate by radio. It is a minor learning task for most people. Similar skills with a long history have not yet been completely outmoded: typing, handwriting, driving a car, tying shoelaces, playing a musical instrument.

Simple? Things which may appear simple may appear so to those without any real understanding.









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TMA34

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2020, 03:00:00 PM »

Currently a 5th grader could pass all 3 exams and know nothing... 

People in 2020 taking the current exam care about being responsible...

One way to find out...bring back the CW requirement. 

Simple.
Yes many youngsters pass all three exams. I wouldn't assert, however, that they "know nothing." Your evidence is?

Most people, in all sorts of endeavors, do have a sense of responsibility. This sense can be
enhanced by effective enforcement of rules. Which we lack currently.

I think in Japan which has historically had a very high number of licensees has also maintained a Code (not CW by the way) exam. As far as I know the relationship between
the requirement to learn a special skill and the number of people who lose interest as a result has not been scientifically explored.

I don't think it's unreasonable or impractical to require a small learning task in order to
get some kind of license. Morse Code remains useful because CW is a very efficient and practical way to communicate by radio. It is a minor learning task for most people. Similar skills with a long history have not yet been completely outmoded: typing, handwriting, driving a car, tying shoelaces, playing a musical instrument.

Simple? Things which may appear simple may appear so to those without any real understanding.

I mostly agree with everything you said. 

You are right maybe some young and old didn't just memorize the test questions and actually studied theory and maybe really learned something I don't know. 

You said we lack enforcement of rules, that's a big one I think.  You can make the test super easy or super hard to obtain but once you have a license you are on the air either way.  Now it can turn into CB radio on steroids in the sense that you can legally obtain and use high power amplifiers on many different bands. I said it CAN turn into CB on steroids. It doesn't have to if the rules are enforced.   

Lack of enforcement of rules is more important than testing in my opinion.

I agree with you 100 percent about CW.

You are right, things are not as simple as we may like them to be. 
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AC2EU

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2020, 03:35:33 PM »

TMA34:

By your own admission you have not been on the air in decades, yet now you are here pontificating on the licensing exams! I don't get it.

I personally don't see much problem with the status quo, although a little more support from the FCC would be good.
For the most part,Amateur radio operators behave themselves. Yes there are some jerks and a-holes, but they are ubiquitous!

I have operated for years without any issues with anyone.
If you are some kind of person that always seems to find a fight, PLEASE stay off the air!

W6MK

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2020, 03:39:45 PM »

You can make the test super easy or super hard to obtain but once you have a license you are on the air either way.

I said it CAN turn into CB on steroids. It doesn't have to if the rules are enforced.   

Lack of enforcement of rules is more important than testing in my opinion.

Things are not as simple as we may like them to be.
There are always going to be people of grown-up years who maintain the behavior
of sociopathic adolescents. Little we can do about that outside of more observance of
behavior in schools, better parenting, working toward dealing with poverty and so forth.

The real problems are what behaviors interfere with ordinary social functioning and what are the reasonable limits of what can be done in terms of enforcement.

Rudeness, obscenity and the like on the ham bands are, however irritating to some of us, are not a serious social problem. Kind of like dealing with passers-by treading on your lawn. Not big enough a problem to call out SWAT.

I would separate the functions of testing from enforcement. Testing has the goals of encouraging learning via simple motivational techniques, circulating a useful basic knowledge base, connecting citizens with other compatible citizens, connecting citizens with well-intended and generally benign government agencies with a view to improving respect among agencies and citizens, etc.

Enforcement has the goals of limiting the most serious kinds of anti-social behavior and encouraging respect for the law among those who don't understand how a democratic society works or who are intellectually limited or emotionally troubled.

Most people, liberal or conservative, who think highly of democratic values, tend to believe that more freedom is preferable to the goal of enforcing "perfect" behavior among the many.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 03:41:54 PM by W6MK »
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TMA34

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2020, 03:50:39 PM »

You can make the test super easy or super hard to obtain but once you have a license you are on the air either way.

I said it CAN turn into CB on steroids. It doesn't have to if the rules are enforced.   

Lack of enforcement of rules is more important than testing in my opinion.

Things are not as simple as we may like them to be.
There are always going to be people of grown-up years who maintain the behavior
of sociopathic adolescents. Little we can do about that outside of more observance of
behavior in schools, better parenting, working toward dealing with poverty and so forth.

The real problems are what behaviors interfere with ordinary social functioning and what are the reasonable limits of what can be done in terms of enforcement.

Rudeness, obscenity and the like on the ham bands are, however irritating to some of us, are not a serious social problem. Kind of like dealing with passers-by treading on your lawn. Not big enough a problem to call out SWAT.

I would separate the functions of testing from enforcement. Testing has the goals of encouraging learning via simple motivational techniques, circulating a useful basic knowledge base, connecting citizens with other compatible citizens, connecting citizens with well-intended and generally benign government agencies with a view to improving respect among agencies and citizens, etc.

Enforcement has the goals of limiting the most serious kinds of anti-social behavior and encouraging respect for the law among those who don't understand how a democratic society works or who are intellectually limited or emotionally troubled.

Most people, liberal or conservative, who think highly of democratic values, tend to believe that more freedom is preferable to the goal of enforcing "perfect" behavior among the many.

Not sure I follow your thinking on this post.  Your previous one I commented I did but this one I'm just not sure what it is. 
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TMA34

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2020, 04:07:56 PM »

TMA34:

By your own admission you have not been on the air in decades, yet now you are here pontificating on the licensing exams! I don't get it.

I personally don't see much problem with the status quo, although a little more support from the FCC would be good.
For the most part,Amateur radio operators behave themselves. Yes there are some jerks and a-holes, but they are ubiquitous!

I have operated for years without any issues with anyone.
If you are some kind of person that always seems to find a fight, PLEASE stay off the air!

I just put up the OP as a theory or suggestion.  Your comments vary.  You say operators behave themselves others seem to think otherwise and say it's a lack of enforcement.  ETC...
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AC2EU

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2020, 04:22:11 PM »

TMA34:

By your own admission you have not been on the air in decades, yet now you are here pontificating on the licensing exams! I don't get it.

I personally don't see much problem with the status quo, although a little more support from the FCC would be good.
For the most part,Amateur radio operators behave themselves. Yes there are some jerks and a-holes, but they are ubiquitous!

I have operated for years without any issues with anyone.
If you are some kind of person that always seems to find a fight, PLEASE stay off the air!

I just put up the OP as a theory or suggestion.  Your comments vary.  You say operators behave themselves others seem to think otherwise and say it's a lack of enforcement.  ETC...

Both are true. What's it to a non-Ham? Again, I personally have no issues with the normal people there ( who are the overwhelming majority) and those are the only one I will bother with. ( that goes for anything, anywhere, actually)
If you want to go to some cess pool on 80 meters ( or other band) and dwell on it , I guess it's problem.
Most choose not to stir the dung pile and spin the big dial.
I suppose you would jump in and start preaching to them? To what end?

TMA34

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2020, 04:46:04 PM »

I think most would agree there should not be a cesspool on 80 meters.  Or on any band.  Why is this allowed to happen? 
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AC2EU

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2020, 04:54:27 PM »

I think most would agree there should not be a cesspool on 80 meters.  Or on any band.  Why is this allowed to happen?

What perfect utopian planet are you from?

TMA34

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2020, 05:04:56 PM »

The one that doesn't like cesspools. 
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W6MK

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Re: TECH ONLY
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2020, 05:37:48 PM »

The one that doesn't like cesspools.

The cesspool has an important function: otherwise there is excrement everywhere.

I see the objection to the cesspool essentially as NIMBY: "not in my back yard."
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