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Author Topic: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?  (Read 1665 times)

VA3VF

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2020, 06:00:08 PM »

Quote
Thought I'd buy a cheap new rig, or wait to find a decent used one
for say $500, and while searching check out the SDR arena.

It's easy, and sometimes 'insulting' ;), to make suggestions with other people's money, but here is one: a used IC-7300. Yes, it's likely going to cost you more than $500, but well worth it in my opinion. It's an SDR, but does not need a computer to run.

It may actually have a total ownership cost lower than your hypothetical $500 radio, once you add an antenna tuner, filters, digital interface. Keep all those extra cost accessories in mind when shopping.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 06:16:37 PM by VA3VF »
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AC7CW

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2020, 03:51:35 PM »

Quote
Please HELP!


If it's RX only, and you already have an RTL-SDR stick, try SDR#.


Agreed: I, who have a real bent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory when it comes to setting things up, was able to get the abovementioned pairing up and running with no problem at all.
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Novice 1958, 20WPM Extra now... (and get off my lawn)

NI0Z

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2020, 09:22:15 AM »

OK, I'll be the bummer, downer, bad guy and ask the obvious question:

Is SDR really ready for prime time? Is it worth the hassle and hoops we have to jump through?


Here are a few things for consideration.  SDR for receive is cheap, you can get quite a bit of capability for very little money.  SDR transmit can get costly.  Quality can get even more costly, but the same holds true for all ham radios. 

SDR is not an all or nothing proposition.  You can hybrid and get the benefits of the receiver and panadapter display with solid software and use your regular radio, say a cheaper one for transmit.  You can use a TR Splitter to drop the SDR Receiver when you transmit so you wont blow it as depicted in this review I did on the QS1R.  https://sdrzone.com/index.php/featured-articles/51-zone-qs1r-review

So if you purchase a decent SDR receiver with say a 16bit ADC you can get a super receiver and then pair it with whatever transceiver you like.  SDRConsole is a really nice package to use with RTL dongles and other SDR's.
Usually some of the better receivers come with better software also that wont crash on you all the time.  There are some awesome SDR's out there on the cheap if you go look that will be highly rewarding to fill this hybrid role.  Also, its simply one of the better cheaper ways to get into SDR and may be all the farther you'll want to go.  Or, you may get addicted like me.

73
NI0Z

G4AON

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2020, 12:54:01 AM »

Those cheap and nasty USB memory stick sized SDR receivers are not worth the time and effort. I bought one to play with and it quickly went in the skip.

On the other hand, several years ago I bought a Microtelecom Perseus SDR receiver. You could buy a low end stand alone transceiver for the same money. However as a 10KHz to 30MHz receiver it is hard to beat at any price, it even comes well up the Sherwood list: http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

You will note that virtually all the top transceivers in recent years are based on an SDR core, some such as the Elecraft K3, Yaesu FTDX101 and Kenwood TS890, down convert to 8 or 9 MHz and have crystal roofing filters ahead of the SDR and a front panel with knobs and buttons. Others, such as the hugely popular Icom IC7300, don’t use the roofing filter and down conversion approach but have enough capability for most hams, except in the most RF hostile environments where narrow roofing filters help keep unwanted signals from overloading the SDR part, typically difficult setups are multi operator field day sites, DXpeditions, multi operator contest stations, etc.

As to whether an SDR sounds as nice as a purely analogue radio, that’s another issue.

73 Dave
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AD6AD

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2020, 12:54:07 PM »

SDR hardware is certainly ready for prime time. (I have several, including a couple Hermes Lite 2 network connect direct sampling SDR transceivers).

But current SDR software is mostly a joke. 

Decided to dive into it and got the Tigertronics Signalink USB.

It comes with 20 pages of exquisitely detailed and critical instructions.
I have to hand it to them - - they really did a good job on documentation and explaining,
but more than ever, I think it's still a nightmare for a beginner.

Viewing the whole experience as a kind of IQ test to see whether or not
I am worthy, I dug into it, and it all makes sense, but my opinion that it's
"Not Ready for Prime-time" has not changed.   ???

I'll post again when it's up and running; hopefully with a better attitude.
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G8FXC

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2020, 01:57:50 AM »

...

As to whether an SDR sounds as nice as a purely analogue radio, that’s another issue.

73 Dave

An SDR is capable of sounding as good as a pure analogue radio, but that is not the context in which are used. I got into amateur radio almost fifty years ago and got along very nicely on a Trio JR500 for several years - incredibly primitive by today's standards, but in those days nobody had heard of a switch mode power supply or ADSL and the noise floor, even in the suburbs of London was S2. It was a nice, clean, simple design and the audio that came out of the speaker was pretty close to what had gone into the mic socket at the transmit end. I'm not sure if my 7300 is capable of that - does it matter? Not really - those band conditions simply don't exist for most of us any more. The reason I have an SDR is that it can support narrow bandwidths with cliff-edge form factors, deep notch filters and automatic noise reduction that tries to extract some measure of intelligence from a mass of noise. HiFi is simply not in it any more!

Martin (G8FXC)
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W6UV

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2020, 11:29:04 AM »

To me, the best feature of SDR receivers is their ability to record an entire chunk of spectrum.

I'm a BCB DXer, and used to stay up all night listening for new stations to add to my log. No more--I just record the entire BCB and scan it the next day. No more sleepless nights.
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N9LCD

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2020, 01:33:39 PM »

NO!

Tried a SDR rig with the recommended C# on a TuffBook running Win XP Professional.

P... Poor documentation.  Even when printed out.

Couple of times had a nice "waterfall" BUT NO AUDIO OUT.

C# decided the TuffBook didn't belong to me; it belonged to C#.  C# overrode the OEM drivers for the ports and knocked the laptop out of service.

$135 to have aftermarket XP Pro installed.  The TuffBook worked -- minus some of the original features!

Barf on SDR!
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W6UV

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2020, 02:26:06 PM »

Barf on SDR!

Sounds like user error to me.
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WB8LBZ

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2020, 04:38:13 PM »

I have had s SDR of some form in use in the shack since 2008. I have the range of a computer dependent box to a turn-key modern radio with knobs/computer software enhancement. I have used Linux/ XP/Win7 and Win10 for operating systems on everything from a Raspberry Pi3 to my current 12 core AMD. I'm not seeing any frustration. What ever I buy, there is some form of user-group support. Maybe the ones with difficulties can start with the user-group.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ
El Paso, TX
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N2DTS

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2020, 05:43:55 AM »

Cheap tools are cheap tools and not worth it, wrench or radio.
More problems are caused by windoze then anything else, but a cheap dongle is not worth the packaging it comes in.
SDR comes in two parts, the hardware and the software.
Both can be good, or bad. Some hardware is almost free, and most software IS free.
Since there may be 25 radios and 10 or 15 programs, not all mix and match so well.
Like anything else, if you do not know much about windoze/computers its risky to muck around in the guts.

I would never think about using an 8 bit direct sample dongle, even if it had any front end filters.
Downconverted radios can work well, as can 14 bit name brand radios like the SDR-IQ.

Since the computer is half the radio, a slow old laptop running an old version OS may give a
very poor result.

I have always had a computer that ONLY DOES THE RADIO.
No updates, no internet connection in normal use, no other programs running, I look at it
as part of the radio hardware.

Also, any USB sdr will have about 400 ms delay (latency) through the USB system in a computer.
That may or not be important.

 
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WB8LBZ

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2020, 08:35:04 AM »

Latency was a problem with USB but I have not had a problem with that since most of my recent radios were controlled via network connections. My Flex 3000 used firewire and was never over 45 ms delay. The Anan used Gigibit Ethernet as does the Hermes-Lite2. The old Flex 5000 used USB and had massive problems but the newer Flex have all gone with Ethernet control.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ
El Paso, TX
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N2DTS

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2020, 08:54:31 AM »

Yes, I avoid any usb based radio unless it works standalone like the Elad fdm duo.
Firewire and ethernet seem fine, firewire is a nice interface and you can still get cards for desk top computers.
Ethernet seems to be the way to go, its got a future.
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N6YWU

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2020, 11:02:06 AM »

Any network connected SDR, compared against a USB or sound card connected SDR, provides much lower latency, as well as zero USB or audio driver issues.  And a network connected SDR also can be operated remotely.  Using a network connected SDR, I can check the HF band opening with a wide spectrum waterfall on my iPad from the living room couch.

The Hermes Lite 2 is a very nice option for those who would prefer to try a network connected SDR for HF.  The Hermes Lite 2 is not only one of the lowest cost network connected options, but a full HF transceiver.  The Hermes Lite 2 is an under $300 "kit", that requires no soldering, but just drilling one hole to assemble, and is sensitive enough to compete with 16-bit direct sampling SDRs such as the Red Pitaya SDRlab 122-16. The Hermes Lite 2 is significantly lower in cost than a FlexRadio, Apache Labs Anan, SunSDR, RFSpace, or Ettus USRP. 

But all the above options are more expensive than an RTL-SDR v.3 plus front-end filters plus Raspberry Pi server.  You get what you pay for.
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K9IUQ

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2020, 05:30:38 AM »

The old Flex 5000 used USB and had massive problems

73, Larry  WB8LBZ
El Paso, TX

WRONG!! The Flexradio 5000 had a Firewire interface NOT USB. You are correct about the massive problems, but it was not because of USB, in fact I do not recall my Flex 5000 even having an USB port.. The Flexradio 3000 and 5000 were horrible radios, especially for CW and deserve the dustbin of history. Anyone looking for frustration in a radio can be certain of achieving that goal with those radios....

In fact anyone needing frustration in a SDR just has to buy any SDR that runs with an external Computer, especially with a Microsoft Windows OS.  ;)

Stan K9IUQ

« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 05:43:39 AM by K9IUQ »
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