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Author Topic: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?  (Read 1663 times)

K9IUQ

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2020, 04:37:18 PM »

I am older, but would rather control most things with a mouse on a screen like Powersdr has.
That is one flaw with the new Flex M series, no mouse control on the standalone radio.
I dislike touch screens you HAVE to touch for everything, with loads of very small on screen buttons.

FWIW, touch screens have become the standard in industry for process/instrument control for many many years. The same is happening  in ham radios and most other modern devices. Go into Mcdonalds or any fast food joint and make an order and what does the order taker do? Hint- it has something to do with pictures of hamburgers and fries on a cash register.  ;) :D :D :D

Why has this happened? Look up the definition of intuitive.

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 04:42:15 PM by K9IUQ »
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G8FXC

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2020, 02:26:25 AM »

.... Most hams agree with me, that is why radios like the Icom 7300/7610 and the Yaesu FTDX101 are vastly more popular than radios that have a PC as a requirement for control.

Stan K9IUQ

I suspect that a lot of the 7300s, 7610s and FTDX101s out there are operated via PCs much of the time. The only time I touch my 7300 is to turn the power on or off - everything else is done from Win4ICOM/WSJT-X/JS8Call/FLDigi/Log4OM. I would not have a serious problem with purchasing a rig that had no front panel controls. I would have a problem with a rig that offloads much of the signal processing to the PC.

Martin (G8FXC)
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N6YWU

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2020, 09:53:35 AM »

I hated PC and mouse control on a radio, give me knobs any day or at the very least touch screen control- good touch screen control like an ipad.

You're in luck. There's an iPad app in the iOS App Store that allows you to control the Hermes Lite 2 SDR transceiver from an iPad's touch screen.  (shameless plug: it's my app :)

Necessary because my Hermes Lite 2 radio has no front panel controls, just an ethernet jack, jack for my straight key, and a few LEDs.  So I wrote an app for that.
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W6UV

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2020, 10:42:47 AM »

I'm a mixed knob/button, mouse/touch screen type myself. I prefer a computer interface overall, with one exception: the main VFO. For that I have a USB device that has a big knob and rotary encoder that I use to tune the bands. I do everything else via the computer interface using the mouse, keyboard, and touch screen.

Ditto for test instruments. I prefer a PC-based 'scope like a Picoscope over a knob-based 'scope from Tek or Keysight.

The biggest advantage to being PC-based is screen size and resolution. Rigs like the 7300 and 7610 have small screens in the 4-7" range with limited resolution. For PC rig control, I use three 32" 4K screens. Sure, the 7610 has a port for an external display, but it's limited to displaying exactly what's on the internal screen at exactly the same resolution (plus Icom was too cheap to spring for an HDMI license, so they used the ancient DVI interface). The K4, on the other hand, has an HDMI interface and isn't restricted to displaying what's on the built-in screen.
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K9IUQ

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2020, 04:00:08 PM »

The K4, on the other hand, has an HDMI interface and isn't restricted to displaying what's on the built-in screen.

Does anyone actually have a K4 in their shack? It is been vaporware or better yet promiseware for quite a while- years? Deja vu ala Flexradio?

I ask because I just went to Elecraft website to buy a K4 and all they want is my deposit $$$$$, deja vu Flexradio?? Not yet shipping and apparently still promiseware...

Also what kind of TV/monitor does 4K on a 32" screen?? And why would it matter on such a small monitor? I ask because I do have a 4K 65inch Tv in my family room (only 4 weeks old) and find 4K is pretty much ho hum compared to 1080HD except when the 4K source has HDR like Dolby Vision. And yes, I do have 4K sources available.

I once had a 40inch 4K TV in the radio shack but accidently cracked the screen. I never thought it gave me any advantage over a 1080HD 32inch which I also have. Maybe it was because it was a Samsung 40inch 4K. I have learned the hard way to stay away from Samsung anything.... Give me a Sony, LG or Vizio anyday.

Stan K9IUQ
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K9IUQ

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2020, 04:39:35 PM »

(plus Icom was too cheap to spring for an HDMI license, so they used the ancient DVI interface).

So what? DVI can do the same 1080 HD video as HDMI sans the audio, Do hams need to run their radios with HDMI so they can go thru their Home Theater Systems and get 7.1 audio from their Icom or Elecraft? Does any ham listen to audio from their radio on a TV/Monitor or HTS???

HDMI/DVI adapters/cables are readily available. Why pay for HDMI licensing with audio when all you really need is the video? Also radios like the Icom 7610 are MUCH cheaper than an Elecraft. If Elecraft history prevails they will be charging for each knob as an extra option. Buy a K-4 for $5K and pay an extra $3K for the basics? That is what they have done with their radios in the past.....

I agree HDMI is the standard and DVI will die out eventually and yes, eventually the K-4 will finally be shipping K-4 radios. Maybe.

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 04:43:10 PM by K9IUQ »
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K7JQ

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2020, 04:17:17 AM »

The increases in screen resolution technology is now becoming a case of diminishing returns and advertising hype. According to my (old) eyes, the jump from standard definition to HD 1080P was a real wow eye-popper. Not so much from 1080P to 4K. On my 75" Samsung QLED TV, you have to really look hard to distinguish between 1080P (or I) and a 4K program/BluRay disc. Now they're talking about 8K! I really don't know how much more actual viewing pleasure you'll get versus the increase in money spent. The human eye can only detect so much until it's not worth it.

As far as putting your radio's screen/spectrum scope up on a large external monitor, unless you have severe vision problems, to me just seems like a visual wow factor for visitors to your shack. After all, you're just looking for a visual indication of where the signals are. How much "resolution" do you really need? In a crowded contest, it's just a jumbled mess anyway. And you can always adjust the band edges for a smaller segment to give you more space between signals. A scope is more advantageous in a less crowded band, so you can go directly to an indicated signal without tuning blindly.  I have a cloudy cornea in my right eye, and I can see the 4-1/2" screens on my 7300's just fine.

But that's just me...to each his/her own. Buy what makes you happy. I'm just a grumpy old man anyway ;D ;D ;D.

73 and stay safe,   Bob K7JQ
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K9IUQ

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2020, 05:12:34 AM »

The increases in screen resolution technology is now becoming a case of diminishing returns and advertising hype.

I'm just a grumpy old man anyway ;D ;D ;D.

73 and stay safe,   Bob K7JQ

I agree with everything you said. IMO the jump from 1080HD to 4K is a big letdown, especially on smaller screens. But then, I have been known to be Grumpy too and no argument on me being Old....  ;) :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ
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K7JQ

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2020, 08:06:57 AM »

The increases in screen resolution technology is now becoming a case of diminishing returns and advertising hype.

I'm just a grumpy old man anyway ;D ;D ;D.

73 and stay safe,   Bob K7JQ

I agree with everything you said. IMO the jump from 1080HD to 4K is a big letdown, especially on smaller screens. But then, I have been known to be Grumpy too and no argument on me being Old....  ;) :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ

OMG, Stan, you agree with EVERYTHING I said?? Do you feel all right? Are you getting soft ;D ;D ;D? Maybe as we age, we are thinking more LOGICALLY together, and realizing the hype isn't worth it ;).

73 and stay safe,  Bob K7JQ
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K9IUQ

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2020, 08:57:14 AM »


OMG, Stan, you agree with EVERYTHING I said?? Do you feel all right? Are you getting soft ;D ;D ;D? Maybe as we age, we are thinking more LOGICALLY together, and realizing the hype isn't worth it ;).

73 and stay safe,  Bob K7JQ

Hehheh Bob, in the past we have had many disagreements, and may again have many more in the future.  ;)
In spite of that I have always considered you a (misguided) friend.  ;)

Fortunately I do feel feel alright and hope you do too, which in todays environment is worth more than $$$ in a bank.

Stan K9IUQ
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K7JQ

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2020, 09:29:30 AM »


OMG, Stan, you agree with EVERYTHING I said?? Do you feel all right? Are you getting soft ;D ;D ;D? Maybe as we age, we are thinking more LOGICALLY together, and realizing the hype isn't worth it ;).

73 and stay safe,  Bob K7JQ

Hehheh Bob, in the past we have had many disagreements, and may again have many more in the future.  ;)
In spite of that I have always considered you a (misguided) friend.  ;)

Fortunately I do feel feel alright and hope you do too, which in todays environment is worth more than $$$ in a bank.

Stan K9IUQ

Recent disagreement because I bought two IC-7300's, and you bought a FTDX-101MP ;). "Misguided"?...Now THAT's the Stan of old ;D ;D ;D.

Seriously, I hope you're enjoying that nice radio, and yes, in today's environment staying healthy is numero uno, especially for us of advanced age. Can't enjoy the radio (or anything) if you're laid up on a ventilator. It's spooky out there.

73,  Bob K7JQ
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W6UV

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2020, 12:07:25 PM »

Does anyone actually have a K4 in their shack? It is been vaporware or better yet promiseware for quite a while- years? Deja vu ala Flexradio?

Yes, people do. Elecraft started shipping the first batch in September, and I know two guys who put their order in early who have gotten theirs already.

Quote
Also what kind of TV/monitor does 4K on a 32" screen?? And why would it matter on such a small monitor? I ask because I do have a 4K 65inch Tv in my family room (only 4 weeks old) and find 4K is pretty much ho hum compared to 1080HD except when the 4K source has HDR like Dolby Vision. And yes, I do have 4K sources available.

All of my computer monitors (seven of them, but not all on the same computer) are 32" 4K displays. I find the increased resolution very helpful for a number of things. Coding for one--I'm able to get a lot more text on the screen, especially if I rotate the monitor vertically. It also helps a great deal when editing hi-res images in Photoshop. My camera has a 60MP resolution and even a 4K monitor can't display all of that. And unlike the 65" TV in your family room, I sit a lot closer to my computer monitors--probably around two feet.

In my theater room, I have a 4K projector and a twelve foot screen. 4K is a HUGE improvement over my previous 1080P projector setup at that screen size.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 12:14:06 PM by W6UV »
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W6UV

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2020, 12:11:23 PM »

I agree HDMI is the standard and DVI will die out eventually and yes, eventually the K-4 will finally be shipping K-4 radios. Maybe.

What you say about HDMI vs. DVI is true, but DVI connectors are much more clunky than HDMI, and I prefer a more modern standard for which I have a big stock of cables (all of my computer monitors and home theater stuff use HDMI or DP. I haven't had anything that used DVI in over a decade).

As I mentioned in a previous post, Elecraft started shipping K4s in September.
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W6UV

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2020, 12:17:56 PM »

I ask because I just went to Elecraft website to buy a K4 and all they want is my deposit $$$$$

You must not have looked hard enough. Yes, they ask for a minimum $1500 deposit for Ship Group 2, but no deposit is required for Ship Group 3 and later.
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W4MKH

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Re: Hard question: It it worth the frustration?
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2020, 05:38:43 PM »

My biggest frustration is trying to find software and get it to work right on a Mac.

All I have at the moment is a RTL-SDR so mostly I am using different KiwiSDRs via the internet. Keeps me going.
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