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Author Topic: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?  (Read 1919 times)

W6UV

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2020, 09:51:53 AM »

I find it amazing how BAD many displays on radios are these days.
Cheap phones and tablets and even some garbage sdr radios have much better displays then
very expensive Japanese HF radios???

I couldn't agree more. What's with a 800x480 display on a $4000 radio? My four year old cellphone has a 1920x1080 display!

The spectrum/waterfall display on the Yaesu looks like an 8-bit video game from the 1980s.

You're right also about Flex--their displays spoil you because anything else pales by comparison. SmartSDR's display from my Flex-6500 on my 4K 32" monitor is much sharper and smoother than anything built into any radio's front panel.
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K9IUQ

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2020, 11:29:34 AM »


What's with a 800x480 display on a $4000 radio? My four year old cellphone has a 1920x1080 display!

The spectrum/waterfall display on the Yaesu looks like an 8-bit video game from the 1980s.

Jerry, you are starting to sound silly and defensive like so many Flexlovers I unfortunately have talked with in the past. Yeah I know Yaesu and Icom are threatening the existence of Flexradios.

800x480 is entirely adequate on a small 7inch screen. Even on a 1080 32inch external monitor the Yaesu looks fine. Also I got a friend with a 7610 and he uses a 48inch monitor because he has eyesight issues. Even that big the 800x480 resolution is adequate. I am looking at my 101 screen right now and can read the tiny 4pt span scale at the bottom of the waterfall. perfectly sharp. Your 8-bit accusation IS quite laughable and not true.

The only time I see the 101mp spectrum screen going "chunky" is when the span gets set to lower spans like 5k. I agree the spectrum is fast , much faster than other radios. I did not like it originally but after a month or so of usage I prefer it over the slower averaged display with other radios. Also the 3DSS display is useful for certain band conditions that I allude to in a previous post. Since you will never own a 101MP I will not bore you with the details.

Apparently you had a bad experience at HRO, and yet you are STILL asking questions today on the 101 io.group, and yes I know what that red line is for. LMAO

Researching a radio is like looking for a new wife. The pretty ones (with a wonderful display) are not the always the right choice. A ham that gets a wife with a pretty face and then finds out that wife don't know how to cook or wash clothes or get your beer will not be happy, trust me there are MUCH more important attributes than a pretty face.......

A high rez display does not make a competitive radio. I am going to do CQWWCW this weekend and will rarely be looking at my spectrum/waterfall display. Unlike your SWLing pursuits, in CW contesting there is no time to be sitting around admiring your beautiful spectrum display.  ;) :) :) :)

I could understand your rancor and disappointment if you owned the 101MP radio instead of just being an uniformed tire kicker. I never bashed Flexradio until I owned one for a while.

Stan K9IUQ

Have a Safe Thanksgiving and be Thankful.......




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K8EZB

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2020, 12:20:21 PM »

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Jerry, you are starting to sound silly and defensive like so many Flexlovers

Not going to touch that one! Let me just say that I spent several hours working the new 101MP this morning on SSB and FT8 and after experimenting with various display settings, am in love with the display.  More is almost always better, but  higher resolution wouldn't  seem to make any difference in usability in this case. As a worldly philosopher recently stated, "This is why there are Fords, Chevys, and Porsches."

Rick
K8EZB
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W6UV

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2020, 02:17:00 PM »

Jerry, you are starting to sound silly and defensive like so many Flexlovers I unfortunately have talked with in the past. Yeah I know Yaesu and Icom are threatening the existence of Flexradios.

You've got that wrong, Stan. I couldn't care less about Yaesu, Icom, Flex, or any other radio maker--I'm not a fanboy of any of them. I'm about to spend $3-4K on a new rig and just want to make sure I make the right choice. It's as simple as that. I believe you were in a similar position a year ago.

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800x480 is entirely adequate on a small 7inch screen. Even on a 1080 32inch external monitor the Yaesu looks fine. Also I got a friend with a 7610 and he uses a 48inch monitor because he has eyesight issues. Even that big the 800x480 resolution is adequate. I am looking at my 101 screen right now and can read the tiny 4pt span scale at the bottom of the waterfall. perfectly sharp. Your 8-bit accusation IS quite laughable and not true.

It's a matter of perspective. I'm an embedded engineer and have worked on several products over the years where 800x480 would be laughably low-res. Yes, my 8-bit comment was a little bit of an exaggeration, but not by much.

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The only time I see the 101mp spectrum screen going "chunky" is when the span gets set to lower spans like 5k. I agree the spectrum is fast , much faster than other radios. I did not like it originally but after a month or so of usage I prefer it over the slower averaged display with other radios. Also the 3DSS display is useful for certain band conditions that I allude to in a previous post. Since you will never own a 101MP I will not bore you with the details.

Averaging is extremely easy to do in FW, so Yaesu could have added it and pleased people like you who like it fast, and also pleased people who like it slower and smoother. Give people the choice, especially when it's so easy to implement. (An exponential smoothing function in C is literally one line of code. Try implementing a motor controller for an electric vehicle without averaging in the motor speed sensor control loop and the vehicle will drive like a 1925 Model T with a first-time driver behind the wheel.)

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Researching a radio is like looking for a new wife. The pretty ones (with a wonderful display) are not the always the right choice. A ham that gets a wife with a pretty face and then finds out that wife don't know how to cook or wash clothes or get your beer will not be happy, trust me there are MUCH more important attributes than a pretty face.......

I'm not looking for a "pretty" display--I'm looking for a useful one. One that makes it easy to locate and tune to very very weak signals that are barely audible. As I've said before, with a waterfall display, operating is just as much a visual experience as it is an audible one. Just ask any Navy sonar operator.

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A high rez display does not make a competitive radio. I am going to do CQWWCW this weekend and will rarely be looking at my spectrum/waterfall display. Unlike your SWLing pursuits, in CW contesting there is no time to be sitting around admiring your beautiful spectrum display.  ;) :) :) :)

A better way to state this is a high rez display, by itself, does not make a competitive radio, but it certainly helps. Just to clarify, I will never use whatever rig I end up buying for SWLing. I have several dedicated SDR receivers for that. This new rig will only be used for DXing. My DXCC totals have reached the point where I've got all the common stuff confirmed and only need the really rare stuff. I participate in contests, but only to pick up new DXCC band fills. The ones I need aren't the ones sitting on one frequency for hours at a time with a booming signal--they're the ones wedged between the big guns with a barely audible signal. More often than not, I find these guys by looking for very faint traces on the waterfall.

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I could understand your rancor and disappointment if you owned the 101MP radio instead of just being an uniformed tire kicker. I never bashed Flexradio until I owned one for a while.

It's not rancor, and I'm not bashing the 101MP as I still haven't ruled it out. If I had, I wouldn't be posting on the 101 groups.io list. I just need to get the questions I have about the display answered without everyone and their brother jumping in with snarky responses fueled by their confirmation bias. It's entirely possible that I just had the rig configured incorrectly, and long-term users should be able to help me by pointing out what I did wrong. If I can identify these, I can go back to HRO and try again, this time armed with suggestions by owners of the rig who have actual experience setting things up right.
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K9IUQ

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2020, 04:35:45 PM »

I'm an embedded engineer and have worked on several products over the years

It's not rancor, and I'm not bashing the 101MP as I still haven't ruled it out. If I had, I wouldn't be posting on the 101 groups.io list. I just need to get the questions I have about the display answered without everyone and their brother jumping in with snarky responses fueled by their confirmation bias. It's entirely possible that I just had the rig configured incorrectly, and long-term users should be able to help me by pointing out what I did wrong.

Well, your comment about 8 bit video game WAS pretty harsh, and this is K9IUQ who is sometimes harsh with comments.  I know rancor when I read it..  You being an engineer does not impress me, I worked with engineers of one kind or another my whole life. I can count on a few fingers the engineers who knew what really happens in the real world. Most engineers live in a different reality and most have an "attitude" towards those who are not engineers......

Rick,K8EZB a new 101MP owner was the CEO of E.F Johnson Radio among his many other accomplishments. I have never noted an attitude with Rick, probably why he was a CEO.  ;) :) You both are just hams to me and you put your pants on just like I do, one leg at a time.....

In the past year Gigaparts has run a 30 day money back guarantee, minus shipping on the Yaesu 101's. I suggest waiting for one of these offers and tryout the 101MP at your shack. You are NOT going to get the information you need or want from eham or io.groups. Certainly you will not get any cooperation from 101 owners if you continue to use 8 bit video remarks and a smarter than you attitude..

Stan K9IUQ
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N2DTS

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2020, 06:14:00 PM »

Everyone does not use a radio the same way or for the same reasons.
I could care less about contests or DX and think both are quite silly, as is having a display on a $4000.00 radio that looks worse then something on a 10 year old refrigerator.

I spend a lot of time looking at and listening to a radio and think it should sound and look good if its expensive.

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W6UV

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2020, 07:30:35 PM »

Well, your comment about 8 bit video game WAS pretty harsh, and this is K9IUQ who is sometimes harsh with comments.  I know rancor when I read it..

It was meant to be funny, not harsh, and anyone who remembers 8-bit video games will understand.

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You being an engineer does not impress me, I worked with engineers of one kind or another my whole life. I can count on a few fingers the engineers who knew what really happens in the real world. Most engineers live in a different reality and most have an "attitude" towards those who are not engineers......

And I’ve known quite a few technicians who could fix things, but who couldn’t design anything complex. It’s a different skill set, and both are needed. All of the engineers I know actually do know what really happens in the real word—they have to, otherwise they wouldn’t be able to design working products. I have known engineers, however, who look down on technicians, and I think that’s wrong.

Quote
You are NOT going to get the information you need or want from eham or io.groups. Certainly you will not get any cooperation from 101 owners if you continue to use 8 bit video remarks and a smarter than you attitude..


You’re probably right.
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W6UV

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2020, 07:41:37 PM »

quite silly, as is having a display on a $4000.00 radio that looks worse then something on a 10 year old refrigerator.

And that won’t change as long as hams only look at numbers on Sherwood’s list. A rig can be an ergonomic and aesthetic disaster, but hams will still buy it as long as it is 1dB better in some obscure receiver measurement than its competitors.

Even Rob Sherwood himself says that anything in the top 15 or so on his list is good enough for all but the most demanding use, which probably covers the needs of 99% of hams.
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N2DTS

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #53 on: November 25, 2020, 08:42:41 PM »

I like a low phase noise and also good filters that SDR provides, the ability to fine tune a filter to remove very close signals from my passband.
I do not need strong signal handling like a contest station or a field day setup might need.
The old radios were quite bad in many respects with their wide open 70 MHz first IF and their high phase noise.
All the new radios seem to be fine in performance, its easy of use, fidelity, price that really set them apart, and of course, good displays or old fridge displays...
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W6UV

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2020, 08:38:03 AM »

All the new radios seem to be fine in performance, its easy of use, fidelity, price that really set them apart, and of course, good displays or old fridge displays...

I agree. Performance of any modern rig is good enough for everyone except, perhaps, for a multi-multi contester. Once you get beyond basic performance, usability and ergonomics are the differentiators. This category is very subjective, because, unlike receiver performance, you can't measure it in a lab with test instruments. It's very individualistic. Some people like the ergonomics of the K3, for example, and others hate it. Ditto for Icom, Yaesu, and Flex rigs.

Displays are a different kettle of fish. Here, it is possible to say that a 1920x1080 display can convey more information in a less granular way than an 800x480 display. How a manufacturer implements the firmware comes into play too, because it's entirely possible to make a 1920x1080 display look worse than an 800x480 display.
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W6UV

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2020, 02:27:44 PM »

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.

I've decided to not buy the FTdx101MP and after much thought and research have instead placed a deposit on an Elecraft K4.
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N2DTS

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2020, 03:55:01 PM »

That K4 looks fantastic.
And no one has better support then Elecraft.
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N2DTS

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2020, 06:22:51 AM »

The K4 display looks nice, not as fancy as some, but clear and crisp.
The display on a big screen looks very nice from looking at the video's, some radios have a big screen display
look like a bigger version of the on screen display with no increase in detail, from looking at the Video's
of the K4, the big screen display looks VERY good with high detail.

The screen on my Flex 6400M looks very good, but the video output does not look better, just bigger.
The K4 looks better....


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W6UV

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2020, 09:08:42 AM »

The K4 display looks nice, not as fancy as some, but clear and crisp.
The display on a big screen looks very nice from looking at the video's, some radios have a big screen display
look like a bigger version of the on screen display with no increase in detail, from looking at the Video's
of the K4, the big screen display looks VERY good with high detail.

I've seen the K4 in person at a convention, and I can say that the screen looks really nice. The spectrum/waterfall is properly implemented, unlike the one on the FTdx101. It uses a modern external video connector (not the outdated DVI used by the JA manufacturers), and you can configure the external output (it doesn't have to be an exact mirror copy of the internal display).
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N6YFM

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Re: FTdx-101MP Gotchas?
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2020, 10:53:32 PM »

You being an engineer does not impress me, I worked with engineers of one kind or another my whole life. I can count on a few fingers the engineers who knew what really happens in the real world. Most engineers live in a different reality and most have an "attitude" towards those who are not engineers......

Stan K9IUQ

Wow Stan.  Lighten up.  As you know from previous discussions, I am also an engineer.    I happen to work in a 5 building campus with over 3,000 other engineers. (Raytheon Technologies)      Well over 85% of them are some of the nicest people I have met or worked with. And yes, the other 15% of engineers tend to range from antisocial hermit crabs on the right, to curmudgeons on the left,  with the communications skill of a brick, but I digress.   That 85% I was mentioning;   Friendly, always willing to help the technicians, always saying goodmorning to the facilities staff or custodial staff, no "attitude" other than a helpful and mentoring attitude.   We call it teamwork.  We are not living in a different reality at all, but working hard to build systems and sensors that help keep you and your family safe at night.  It's our sense of duty.   Call it what you wish.

Oh, and, um, a reality check:   Stan, do you know what happens in the real world?   
Answer:   Engineers design and create EVERYTHING that you depend on in your daily life.  Everything in your home, your car, your
communications, entertainment, gas and water and electric systems.   Every item you touch in a day.   You are surrounded by engineers.
Be nice.  You don't want them to put you on "the bad list" :-)

If you don't have an engineering degree, that's fine with me.   (You probably have a lot less headaches than me :-)  )
I don't judge.   A doctor needs a mechanic, and a mechanic needs a doctor.  And all of us need a good chef and good farmers!

But if you really feel like striking back;   "I don't know CW"      There, I said it :-)

Live and let live.   The hobby is a lot more fun if we feel like we are all on the same team.

Neal
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 11:01:15 PM by N6YFM »
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