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Author Topic: Listening fatigue IC 7300  (Read 2153 times)

K9IUQ

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #75 on: December 05, 2020, 09:31:38 AM »

I did answer, maybe read it again.

Ok got it thanks,

 Unlike most ham radios Flexradio does not support external speakers unless they are powered speakers or powered by a Stereo /HTS/audio amp.

I would assume most Flexers just do what W6UV told us he does in a previous post, they use headphones.

Stan K9IUQ
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N2DTS

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #76 on: December 05, 2020, 09:47:02 AM »

Same with the Anan rigs as well.
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K7JQ

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #77 on: December 05, 2020, 10:32:43 AM »

[
You didn't answer my question. In a big pileup on the same frequency when tons of stations are virtually zero-beat and louder than the DX, you claimed that you could pick him out with your 101MP while he's transmitting and they're still calling him. Is that what I understood by your comment?

Bob K7JQ

Dang you Bob, you want my secrets, ok Bob here is what I do:

I put my 101MP display on 5khz span, this gives a nice close up of the pile. most stations, especially point and clickers who use the cluster bandmap land exactly on the same freq as the DX. Most DX that generate huge piles do NOT listen exactly on their freq, they use their RX RIT/Clarifier. The reason they do not listen exactly on their freq is it is very hard to pick out a call from all the QRM.

Smart hams trying to break the pile use TX RIT/Clarifier to move their TX freq up a down a little. Usually 10-100hz altho many times 10-200hz. This allows the DX a better chance to pick out a call, similar to using 2khz split but on a much smaller freq deviation.

Even smarter hams look at a closeup of the pileup and can find out where the DX station is listening, IOW who is the Dx working, a smart ham can see exactly what freq that is. This of course only works if you can RX the station the DX is working. BY using the TX clarifier on the 101MP a smart ham can get exactly where the DX just listened, tail ending comes to mind.  ;) If a smart ham can not hear/see the worked station then he tries to move to a clear spot and call the DX.

Now then, since there are many hams calling right on the DX freq it can be difficult to hear the DX. I use 300hz roof filter, 50-100hz DSP filter AND the VC tune control to cut out most of the garbage. I then take note of what the DX station signal looks like on display, In really big pileups like with the Africa stations it was very difficult to hear the DX, however if a smart ham can not hear the DX cuz of the pile, but can hear/see a worked station then the DX is still workable. Just jump on a ham giving a 5NN 4 report and call. ONE Call and listen, ONE call and listen. The chances are good the DX will call the smart ham, more than once usually allowing the smart ham to do a happy dance....

The 101MP has a red vertical line on the display showing exactly where the TX clarifier freq is located and you want that red line on the last worked station freq or nearby......

Stan K9IUQ

Well Stan, You ARE a smart ham ;). I understand your technique, and see it's effectiveness. Of course, the 7300 can also go to a 5kHz panadapter span, has RIT and TX clarifiers, is adjustable down to a 50Hz DSP filter with excellent rejection to the sides, and has a red line showing the offset. SDR radios don't have roofing filters. So at that span you can see the last station he worked, and go to his frequency. But you answered my question...With all that being said, it is still "very difficult" to hear the DX station because of the pileup calling on his frequency. With your original comment, I thought that maybe the VC TUNE permitted you to clearly hear the DX while the pileup was transmitting right on his frequency.

However, our contesting goals are different. The meaning of "contest" is competition. Your competition is getting into pileups and eventually busting them. My competition is number of Q's, resulting in more points. Doing what you said is effective, but time consuming with all the adjustments necessary. I don't have time for all that...I'll just come back when he has no big pileup. I need my panadapter to scan the spectrum where all the action is, not just a 5kHz segment to work one station and fiddling with clarifier controls.

But yes, your 101MP (and a 7610) are "Gooder" radios all around ;).

Bob K7JQ
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K9IUQ

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #78 on: December 05, 2020, 10:57:13 AM »

However, our contesting goals are different. The meaning of "contest" is competition. Your competition is getting into pileups and eventually busting them. My competition is number of Q's, resulting in more points. Doing what you said is effective, but time consuming with all the adjustments necessary. I don't have time for all that...I'll just come back when he has no big pileup.
Bob K7JQ

Yes indeed, a ham that wants score points should not do my technique. There was a time when I would do exactly what you described. Never get into a pile, if you can't work a station in a minute or so , move on. Get the easy ones first and wait for the last day to get the harder ones, which won't be hard any longer and they will be begging for Q's.

The same thing for Dxexpeditions, wait til the last few days to work em, instead of the first day when the piles are huge.
FWIW Bob, I used to hate Contests most of my ham life until a fellow ham talked me into doing the IL QSO Party about 13 years ago. That gave me the interest to do more contesting, started with the 160 mtr contests cuz at that time I still did not have DXCC on 160 mtr. The rest is history I found out the joy of contesting. Every contester has probably different goals. Do what you find to be fun.

Stan K9IUQ
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K9IUQ

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #79 on: December 05, 2020, 11:20:09 AM »

Well Stan, You ARE a smart ham ;). I understand your technique, and see it's effectiveness.

I forgot to mention that YOU have to have a fast real time display for this technique to work. It does not work well with my 7600 because it's display is not fast enough BECAUSE it is an averaged display, not a full real time display. The 101mp has the fastest real time display I have seen on a radio and most hams that are used to a damped averaged display don't like the 101MP fast display.. It took a while for me to get used to it before I liked the fast speed.

I don't know if other SDR radios would be fast enough, as any delay or averaging will throw off the  "timing " of your call to the DX...

Also, the 101 VC tune is VERY effective, however it is not a miracle.

Stan K9IUQ
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VR2AX

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #80 on: December 05, 2020, 11:33:15 AM »

There are some good smart phone apps that render the microphone audio input in the frequency domain. You may consider using one of those for your experiments in order to remove some of the subjectivity.

- Glenn W9IQ

Thanks. I checked again today. Not with the app but just by ear. Returning RF control to zero (- 8 o'clock) makes no difference. RF to +2 o'clock engages the squelch which silences it at about S1. But subjectively it does work well I think.
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W6UV

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #81 on: December 07, 2020, 11:49:42 AM »

I understand now why W6UV told us he only uses headphones, he has no other choice unless he is willing to use powered speakers or a external audio amplifier/RX of some sort.

That's not the reason. I've always used headphones, on every transceiver/receiver I've ever owned, even going back to the various Collins and Drake rigs I've owned. I've never listened with a speaker, either internal to the rig or external, so what I said in the previous post has absolutely nothing to do with Flex.
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W6UV

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #82 on: December 07, 2020, 12:04:26 PM »

I forgot to mention that YOU have to have a fast real time display for this technique to work. It does not work well with my 7600 because it's display is not fast enough BECAUSE it is an averaged display, not a full real time display.

It works just fine on a Flex with averaging turned on. I notice no difference in the rise time of signals with averaging on versus having it turned off. What averaging really does is act as a low-pass filter, removing a lot of the noise. This makes it easier to see real signals. The 7600 isn't a good comparison to modern SDR rigs in this regard because it only updates its band scope display something like four times a second. Even if it wasn't doing averaging it would still look slow and dated.
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K7JQ

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #83 on: December 07, 2020, 12:27:25 PM »


I forgot to mention that YOU have to have a fast real time display for this technique to work. It does not work well with my 7600 because it's display is not fast enough BECAUSE it is an averaged display, not a full real time display. The 101mp has the fastest real time display I have seen on a radio and most hams that are used to a damped averaged display don't like the 101MP fast display.. It took a while for me to get used to it before I liked the fast speed.

I don't know if other SDR radios would be fast enough, as any delay or averaging will throw off the  "timing " of your call to the DX...

Stan K9IUQ

That's another thing I like about the 7300 over the 7600 I had. The panadapter is real time (and brighter/higher resolution). It can be adjusted slow, medium, or fast.
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K0UA

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #84 on: December 07, 2020, 07:46:43 PM »


I forgot to mention that YOU have to have a fast real time display for this technique to work. It does not work well with my 7600 because it's display is not fast enough BECAUSE it is an averaged display, not a full real time display. The 101mp has the fastest real time display I have seen on a radio and most hams that are used to a damped averaged display don't like the 101MP fast display.. It took a while for me to get used to it before I liked the fast speed.

I don't know if other SDR radios would be fast enough, as any delay or averaging will throw off the  "timing " of your call to the DX...

Stan K9IUQ

That's another thing I like about the 7300 over the 7600 I had. The panadapter is real time (and brighter/higher resolution). It can be adjusted slow, medium, or fast.

yes the spectrum scope on the 7300 just blew away the one on my 756pro3.. Of course there was no waterfall on the pro 3
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73  James K0UA

N2DTS

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #85 on: December 08, 2020, 05:23:01 AM »

In its day, the 756 pro's had the best scope by far.
Now, a cheap dongle will blow it away.
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K0UA

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #86 on: December 08, 2020, 05:39:24 AM »

In its day, the 756 pro's had the best scope by far.
Now, a cheap dongle will blow it away.

Thats why I don't hang on to boat anchors, and my 756pro3 got traded off. Oh sure I really really loved it when it was new, and for many years thereafter. But as far as I am concerned it is headed toward boat anchor status.
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73  James K0UA

K9IUQ

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #87 on: December 08, 2020, 07:51:03 AM »


Thats why I don't hang on to boat anchors, and my 756pro3 got traded off. Oh sure I really really loved it when it was new, and for many years thereafter. But as far as I am concerned it is headed toward boat anchor status.

This why I still have my QS1R SDR which I still use with HDSDR software. IT makes a wonderful panadapter for ANY radio and the display is as good as any. I also frequently use the QS1R with CW Skimmer Server for my local LAN DX cluster, the QS1R will scan 5 bands and feed the spots to my LOG4OM cluster client. I think QS1R's are the way LOTS of spots are generated on the web clusters.

So don't be so quick to throw away those older radios, even those with NO Display. Buy your self a nice cheap SdrPlay SDR and you will be as modern and have a panadapter as good as anyone. Plus the Sdrplays now have some REALLY neat  and useful plugins which other radios don't have.... I am going to get one myself.

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 07:58:42 AM by K9IUQ »
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K0UA

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #88 on: December 08, 2020, 08:04:04 AM »


Thats why I don't hang on to boat anchors, and my 756pro3 got traded off. Oh sure I really really loved it when it was new, and for many years thereafter. But as far as I am concerned it is headed toward boat anchor status.

This why I still have my QS1R SDR which I still use with HDSDR software. IT makes a wonderful panadapter for ANY radio and the display is as good as any. I also frequently use the QS1R with CW Skimmer Server for my local LAN DX cluster, the QS1R will scan 5 bands and feed the spots to my LOG4OM cluster client. I think QS1R's are the way LOTS of spots are generated on the web clusters.

So don't be so quick to throw away those older radios, even those with NO Display. Buy your self a nice cheap SdrPlay SDR and you will be as modern and have a panadapter as good as anyone. Plus the Sdrplays now have some REALLY neat  and useful plugins which other radios don't have.... I am going to get one myself.

Stan K9IUQ

Good points. 
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73  James K0UA

K9IUQ

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Re: Listening fatigue IC 7300
« Reply #89 on: December 08, 2020, 08:04:55 AM »

Thats why I don't hang on to boat anchors, and my 756pro3 got traded off.

I sold my Pro III for $1400 cash to a local ham about 11 years. I really liked that radio and I sold it to get $$$ for the worst radio I have ever had - the Flexradio 5000.... Dumb Me.  ;)

Stan K9IUQ
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