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Author Topic: HOA RULES and Regulation  (Read 3720 times)

W8LV

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #75 on: November 30, 2021, 03:26:12 PM »

Bob K7JQ said:

"Despite all the "I wish there were new communities being built without HOA's/CC&R's" comments, the simple fact is...that ain't gonna happen anytime soon, or ever in our lifetime. It's just a fact of life, so you gotta get used to it and adjust your priorities..."

No. We don't have to put up with the tyranny of the status quo. We can change it in this country. As per the video, 44% of Florida properties are controlled by HOA's, and the problem is getting worse. And these folks who sued their HOA AND WON are an example of change. Their issues didn't even have to do with antennas, they said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, and THAT is the beginning of the end of HOA Tyranny.

73 DE W8LV BILL
« Last Edit: November 30, 2021, 03:29:40 PM by W8LV »
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K1VSK

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #76 on: November 30, 2021, 03:27:44 PM »

Despite all the "I wish there were new communities being built without HOA's/CC&R's" comments, the simple fact is...that ain't gonna happen anytime soon, or ever in our lifetime. It's just a fact of life, so you gotta get used to it and adjust your priorities. There's always an imaginative way to go stealth. Not as effective as stacked beams on a 100' tower, but still able to get on the air.

Bob K7JQ
Lots of people around here build their own homes for lots of reasons - they want acerage, they want horses, a heli pad,their own pond, etc..., none of which is typically possible in a development with an HOA. That's one of the reasons claims about unavailability are nonsense.

To imply, as some are fond of doing here, that finding unencumbered property  not possible even with limited funds is just more of the same hyperbole. There are always options. What baffling is that some would rather complain than fix their problem.
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K7JQ

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #77 on: November 30, 2021, 04:11:14 PM »

Bob K7JQ said:

"Despite all the "I wish there were new communities being built without HOA's/CC&R's" comments, the simple fact is...that ain't gonna happen anytime soon, or ever in our lifetime. It's just a fact of life, so you gotta get used to it and adjust your priorities..."

No. We don't have to put up with the tyranny of the status quo. We can change it in this country. As per the video, 44% of Florida properties are controlled by HOA's, and the problem is getting worse. And these folks who sued their HOA AND WON are an example of change. Their issues didn't even have to do with antennas, they said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, and THAT is the beginning of the end of HOA Tyranny.

73 DE W8LV BILL

Bill,

I don't know why you call it "HOA Tyranny". That's a pretty strong word ;). I've totally lived in three HOA's in the last 30 years. Antenna restrictions, yes. But "tyranny"?? Not here...I never heard a peep from them. Maybe you've experienced "tyranny" in an HOA you've lived in? Explain.

Bob K7JQ
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W8LV

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #78 on: November 30, 2021, 09:05:01 PM »

Bob: Here are just a few examples of HOA Tyranny for your viewing pleasure:

First Responders fed up with their HOA community:

https://youtu.be/nFhd3get7Gw

Families say HOA drove them out:

https://youtu.be/R-VXCjROXZc

Eastlake Residents Upset over HOA parking rule:

https://youtu.be/ANwSvZj7lZs

Problems with Florida HOA laws:

https://youtu.be/pNJjgYTdKY4

This sadly not just a Florida problem. MEET HOA KAREN!

https://youtu.be/t8YveThMHEM

73 DE W8LV BILL

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K6BRN

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #79 on: December 01, 2021, 12:17:01 AM »

It's actually quite simple. If there were communities of new, middle to upper middle-class homes available in certain areas, then this discussion would be moot. I have been shown homes where antenna restrictions don't apply but these homes have been generally older houses in areas which I would not want to live. There just aren't new developments being built in desirable areas which don't include an HOA. I'm not judging people based on where they live but I am looking for a certain type of home in a newer neighborhood. This does not include houses built in the 1970's or even the early 1980's. Anyway, to each their own and that is why those of us who are looking to relocate or live inside an HOA community want to be able to enjoy our hobby which includes the construction of an external antenna

David:

I've spent quite a bit of time in Nanuet, Blauvelt and Pearl River.  As much as there is reasonably priced inventory ANYWHERE right now, there are plenty of nice neighborhoods, good school districts and HOA-free homes there.  Some homes are new, some are older classical homes nicely restored/modernized (love those) and some are 1950's to 1980's homes that have been nicely redone, too.  If you're not finding them, you need a new realtor and some patience.

If you'd like more room on a lower budget, then move to a less developed area like the outskirts of  Ithaca in upstate NY, and its surroundings.  One of my favorite places.  Outstanding homes, lots of space to build, some with HOAs, some not.  Cayuga lake, parks and trails ("Ithaca is 'gorges' (sic)") and multiple universities in your back yard.  Just a beautiful area, period, whith housing that runs the gamut from downright inexpensive to $M's, over just a few miles.

If you'd like to switch to CT, I've got a great realtor to talk to.  But it gets pretty pricey near NYC.

Brian - K6BRN

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K6BRN

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #80 on: December 01, 2021, 12:21:40 AM »

BTW - from your address, you're already in a very nice neighborhood and home with plenty of trees in the back.  Lots of possibilities there for a decent antenna that is nearly invisible, if there IS an HOA.

Just saying...

Brian - K6BRN
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WB2KSP

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #81 on: December 01, 2021, 06:16:01 AM »

It's actually quite simple. If there were communities of new, middle to upper middle-class homes available in certain areas, then this discussion would be moot. I have been shown homes where antenna restrictions don't apply but these homes have been generally older houses in areas which I would not want to live. There just aren't new developments being built in desirable areas which don't include an HOA. I'm not judging people based on where they live but I am looking for a certain type of home in a newer neighborhood. This does not include houses built in the 1970's or even the early 1980's. Anyway, to each their own and that is why those of us who are looking to relocate or live inside an HOA community want to be able to enjoy our hobby which includes the construction of an external antenna

David:

I've spent quite a bit of time in Nanuet, Blauvelt and Pearl River.  As much as there is reasonably priced inventory ANYWHERE right now, there are plenty of nice neighborhoods, good school districts and HOA-free homes there.  Some homes are new, some are older classical homes nicely restored/modernized (love those) and some are 1950's to 1980's homes that have been nicely redone, too.  If you're not finding them, you need a new realtor and some patience.

If you'd like more room on a lower budget, then move to a less developed area like the outskirts of  Ithaca in upstate NY, and its surroundings.  One of my favorite places.  Outstanding homes, lots of space to build, some with HOAs, some not.  Cayuga lake, parks and trails ("Ithaca is 'gorges' (sic)") and multiple universities in your back yard.  Just a beautiful area, period, whith housing that runs the gamut from downright inexpensive to $M's, over just a few miles.

If you'd like to switch to CT, I've got a great realtor to talk to.  But it gets pretty pricey near NYC.

Brian - K6BRN

Hi Brian, I live in Pearl River/Nanuet on a 1/3 of an acre now. My wife and I were considering moving to another part of the country. I've lived in Rockland County since 1962. It's the second highest taxed county in the country. Westchester, NY is the highest. A house located about 1/4 miles from me last I checked was paying $46,000 a year in property tax (1.7 acres). 15-20,000 is not unusual here so you can see, in retirement that's a lot of money just going to pay taxes. It would be nice to move to a town/county where property/school taxes aren't so high and where I could put up an antenna. Purchasing land is one idea but there's a problem with that. If you acquire land and construct a home outside of a development, then things like High-Speed internet/cable TV & public sewers are not generally available. We have natural gas supplied to our house. Our internet/TV/phone service is Fios (fiber delivery).  One of my ex-colleagues built a home in a relatively rural area. He has a propane and septic tank in his back yard. He had to use one of the satellite services for his television reception because he had no other options and on and on so what I am saying is that I realize that there are alternatives to a HOA run development but for me, they aren't viable options.
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K7JQ

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #82 on: December 01, 2021, 06:21:26 AM »

Bill W8LV,

Being retired, I actually found time to watch those videos ;). Omigosh...the TYRANNY! In the words of John McEnroe, "You can't be serious". A few isolated incidents, mostly instigated by crazy "Karens" (and spouses), and people who failed to read and absorb the CC&R's, resulting in overblown local TV news stories. In most cases, much ado about nothing.

You still haven't answered my question. Have you ever lived in a HOA community, and been wronged by them? I can understand your feelings if you have. If not, why are you so gung-ho about disparaging them without first-hand experience?

I say again, if you read the CC&R's before you buy, and don't agree with them, buy elsewhere.

Bob K7JQ
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K7JQ

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #83 on: December 01, 2021, 08:34:32 AM »

David WB2KSP,

Although others have given you viable options in your search for a retirement home, I think I understand your dilemma. You want a new (or nearly new) built home, with the latest energy efficient construction, appliances,  and HVAC. Internal wiring for your IT and security needs. Local water, gas, sewer, electric, and internet utilities (no propane, trucked-in water, or septic tanks). Close to needed/desired amenities, with no 5-digit real estate taxes. All the things that purchasing a lot with no CC&R encumbrances and building a custom home on the outskirts of local civilization would prohibit, not to mention the additional financial outlay of such an endeavor over and above a builder's community pricing. Am I on track?

My priorities were similar. My last three houses were new-builds...one in the Philadelphia area, and three here in Arizona. I just like a new home where no one else has lived in...my thing ;). The one in Philly (1980-1991) was before HOA's out there, and I had a 50 foot tower with a tri-band beam. The three in AZ (beginning in 1991) were/are under HOA/CC&R's, with antenna restrictions. Virtually no other options if I wanted a new-build at prices within my budget. Time to re-visit my priorities, and living conditions won out over visible antennas. However with stealth antennas, I've been able to still enjoy my ham radio hobby in all three houses with no HOA interference. In my current home, I've worked over 285 countries and some decent contest scores with attic dipoles and a fixed screwdriver antenna. It can be done.

I truly wish you luck in your continuing search.

73,  Bob K7JQ
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K1VSK

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2021, 10:30:52 AM »



Although others have given you viable options in your search for a retirement home, I think I understand your dilemma. You want a new (or nearly new) built home, with the latest energy efficient construction, appliances,  and HVAC. Internal wiring for your IT and security needs. Local water, gas, sewer, electric, and internet utilities (no propane, trucked-in water, or septic tanks). Close to needed/desired amenities, with no 5-digit real estate taxes. All the things that purchasing a lot with no CC&R encumbrances and building a custom home on the outskirts of local civilization would prohibit, not to mention the additional financial outlay of such an endeavor over and above a builder's community pricing. Am I on track?


All of those criteria are what almost every buyer wants and none are exclusive only to HOAs, at least not here where he expressed interest.
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K7JQ

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #85 on: December 01, 2021, 11:18:23 AM »



Although others have given you viable options in your search for a retirement home, I think I understand your dilemma. You want a new (or nearly new) built home, with the latest energy efficient construction, appliances,  and HVAC. Internal wiring for your IT and security needs. Local water, gas, sewer, electric, and internet utilities (no propane, trucked-in water, or septic tanks). Close to needed/desired amenities, with no 5-digit real estate taxes. All the things that purchasing a lot with no CC&R encumbrances and building a custom home on the outskirts of local civilization would prohibit, not to mention the additional financial outlay of such an endeavor over and above a builder's community pricing. Am I on track?


All of those criteria are what almost every buyer wants and none are exclusive only to HOAs, at least not here where he expressed interest.

Then hopefully David can find something in FL based on your statement and previous suggestions. In AZ (Phoenix/Tucson and surrounding areas), 100% of new (or newly built in the last 25+ years) builder's subdivisions are under some kind of HOA/CC&R rules and regulations. Even if a house on the market is advertised with "No HOA", the underlying CC&R's can give a neighbor the right to sue you for a violation...and win.
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K1VSK

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #86 on: December 01, 2021, 03:36:51 PM »



Although others have given you viable options in your search for a retirement home, I think I understand your dilemma. You want a new (or nearly new) built home, with the latest energy efficient construction, appliances,  and HVAC. Internal wiring for your IT and security needs. Local water, gas, sewer, electric, and internet utilities (no propane, trucked-in water, or septic tanks). Close to needed/desired amenities, with no 5-digit real estate taxes. All the things that purchasing a lot with no CC&R encumbrances and building a custom home on the outskirts of local civilization would prohibit, not to mention the additional financial outlay of such an endeavor over and above a builder's community pricing. Am I on track?


All of those criteria are what almost every buyer wants and none are exclusive only to HOAs, at least not here where he expressed interest.

Then hopefully David can find something in FL based on your statement and previous suggestions. In AZ (Phoenix/Tucson and surrounding areas), 100% of new (or newly built in the last 25+ years) builder's subdivisions are under some kind of HOA/CC&R rules and regulations. Even if a house on the market is advertised with "No HOA", the underlying CC&R's can give a neighbor the right to sue you for a violation...and win.
This may cross into being too judgmental but it appears he doesn’t really want to as he never bothered to look into the list of communities and areas I previously gave him, all of which have homes meeting his stated criteria.

« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 03:51:47 PM by K1VSK »
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K6BRN

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #87 on: December 01, 2021, 08:20:18 PM »

In the end, the real problem may simply be the outrageous rate of home value inflation vs. fixed income.  Real estate taxes are a form of wealth tax - they rise with home value.  The problem is that most persons intend to LIVE in their homes and not "flip" them for profit.  This results in taxes that can rise 5x or more from purchase to retirement and can make a retired couple's home unaffordable, just when they need it most.  Hence the popularity of reverse mortgages - but those tend to lock owners into a home with undesirable results when they finally have to move due to health issues.

This overarching problem has a lot of retiree homeowners furious.  And searching for a more affordable yet attractive alternative during the COVID market explosion - plus the rising popularity of HOAs (and yes, I'm familiar with acts of HOA tyranny - they are as good as the lowest common denominator in the HOA - some are fine, some are not, some have their moments...)  can be overwhelming.

In the end, most people I know that are in this position choose to move out of their comfort zones by downsizing, moving into a condo or to a more rural area that has different services - i.e. a septic system that needs cleanout every 1-2 years, or electric heat pump heat rather than natural gas, or a well rather than city water.  I've lived at locations with all of those and it's no big deal.

But...

One former co-worked moved to New Mexico and into a 5,000 square foot home with six bathrooms.  Problem is he has no city water supply and the water table is not accessible - no well.  So he has a very big cistern and his water is delivered by tanker truck.  Very affordable, six bathrooms ... but very limited, very expensive water.  That was his compromise. 

Brian - K6BRN
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K7MEM

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #88 on: December 02, 2021, 01:14:18 AM »

I lived in Northern Arizona for many years. I had about 10 acres and a nice large house. We were far enough away from town that no one cared what you did with your property. That's a good thing and bad thing. But, we also had no city services. We had to haul our own water, had our own water pump, ran on propane, arranged for trash pickup, and had to get our mail in town. It was fine for years. We had lots of horses and dogs, and the space to keep them. The hauled water thing takes a bit to get use to, but it's not that bad. I found the biggest headache was maintaining the water pump system. And, of course, if the power goes out, you have no water pressure. So you always need to have a generator (and gas) handy to power the pump.

When we decided to move to Michigan, we contacted a realtor in Michigan and listed several requirements. They included: no propane, must have city water, city sewers/trash pickup, mail delivery, and no HOA. Plus, we weren't looking for lots of property. One acre maximum. It took a careful search, but it was not that difficult to fulfill all of the requirements. We are now in a nice house on 3/4 acres in a neighborhood where everyone seems to take care of their houses and lawns. The first thing I did, once we moved in, was put up my weather station, my 43' vertical, with guy ropes, and a small 2 Meter Yagi on a 20' mast (with rotator). Overall, it is a very clean install and difficult to notice. The only one that noticed my antennas was the neighbor directly behind me. And they were just curious. Never had an interference issue.

Oh, we bought our Michigan house right at the start of of the Covid restrictions so there were no in-person house tours. We weren't able to fly there anyway. We did get a virtual tour and purchased the house sight unseen. Overall, that worked out well.

If you want to live in a HOA controlled neighborhood, that is your choice. But you can find nice areas that are not HOA controlled, relatively easily.
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Martin - K7MEM
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WB2KSP

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Re: HOA RULES and Regulation
« Reply #89 on: December 02, 2021, 03:19:10 AM »

David WB2KSP,

Although others have given you viable options in your search for a retirement home, I think I understand your dilemma. You want a new (or nearly new) built home, with the latest energy efficient construction, appliances,  and HVAC. Internal wiring for your IT and security needs. Local water, gas, sewer, electric, and internet utilities (no propane, trucked-in water, or septic tanks). Close to needed/desired amenities, with no 5-digit real estate taxes. All the things that purchasing a lot with no CC&R encumbrances and building a custom home on the outskirts of local civilization would prohibit, not to mention the additional financial outlay of such an endeavor over and above a builder's community pricing. Am I on track?

My priorities were similar. My last three houses were new-builds...one in the Philadelphia area, and three here in Arizona. I just like a new home where no one else has lived in...my thing ;). The one in Philly (1980-1991) was before HOA's out there, and I had a 50 foot tower with a tri-band beam. The three in AZ (beginning in 1991) were/are under HOA/CC&R's, with antenna restrictions. Virtually no other options if I wanted a new-build at prices within my budget. Time to re-visit my priorities, and living conditions won out over visible antennas. However with stealth antennas, I've been able to still enjoy my ham radio hobby in all three houses with no HOA interference. In my current home, I've worked over 285 countries and some decent contest scores with attic dipoles and a fixed screwdriver antenna. It can be done.

I truly wish you luck in your continuing search.

73,  Bob K7JQ

Thank you Bob.  I couldn't have expressed my housing desires any better.
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