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Author Topic: Grounding to the AC mains question  (Read 869 times)

NC5T

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Grounding to the AC mains question
« on: December 09, 2020, 02:54:11 PM »

Good afternoon,

  I have a curious question about bonding the shack and antenna system to the mains for the experts.

  I am moving into a new house and setting up my shack and was considering putting my entrance panel near the house mains for easy ground bonding.  With this I would run the coax and control lines through the attic to the shack as I have done in the past.  Then I noticed, and this is where the question comes in, that I have easy access to the panel after the meter on the pole in the front yard that feeds the house.

  This panel is closer by 60ft and a much easier run.  I could make the entrance panel right outside the shack and bond the entrance panel for the coax/ control lines to a ground rod and then run the bonding line, with a couple more ground rods, to the pole.

  My question is would this work better, worse, or just as well as gong through the attic and using the outside house panel which is further away.

Thanks in advance,

Bob
NC5T

« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 02:57:27 PM by NC5T »
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W9IQ

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Re: Grounding to the AC mains question
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2020, 03:53:55 PM »

If your meter is on the pole, it is generally required that the enclosure of the meter needs to be bonded with the house ground electrodes. If this is the case, you can use this metallic structure to attach your grounding wire from the coax.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

NC5T

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Re: Grounding to the AC mains question
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2020, 04:14:53 PM »

Thanks for the reply!  I was thinking the same thing as there is also a panel out there that looks like it feeds the house with underground wires.

  My main concern with this is the possibility of creating a ground loop with all the gear using the AC in the shack, plugged into the outlets in the room, but bonded all the way back to the main line off the pole.  I would imagine it will not be, but in the head it just seems like it could as I would, literally, be creating a loop...

Thanks again,

Bob
NC5T
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K1KIM

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Re: Grounding to the AC mains question
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2020, 04:59:02 PM »

I would not think it will cause a loop if you ground all the equipment in the shack individually to a ground buss (either copper pipe or 24 ga copper flashing) and then one wire from the buss to the panel earth ground which of couse must be properly grounded.
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NC5T

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Re: Grounding to the AC mains question
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2020, 05:45:17 PM »

Thanks for the reply!  That also leads to an implied part of the question.

  I always use a grounding bus as single point ground for all of the gear in the shack, radios, tuners, computer, switches, etc., and usually I run #6 copper along with the coax to the entrance panel which is in turn bonded to the mains. But in this scenario, would I just run it to the entrance panel right outside the shack that would be bonded to the panel at the pole, or back to the house mains...

Just trying to get my head around this.

Bob
NC5T
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K1KIM

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Re: Grounding to the AC mains question
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2020, 07:06:54 PM »

I am fortunate in that my earth ground is a copper water service pipe 3 feet from my shack. It's an older house so that runs out to the meter pit. Additionally off that same pipe is one of the service panel earth ground connections.

The coax feed line goes to a Polyphaser on a ground rod that is attached to another rod and both those rods are connected to the service panel earth ground rod that is just outside the garage wall from the main electric service panel.

A whole house surge protector is going in shortly.

I think I've got it covered, but it took alot of planning and my shack is not in the ideal place for me.....but it is for the grounding issues.

You'll figure it all out.
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W9IQ

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Re: Grounding to the AC mains question
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2020, 03:00:52 AM »

Bob,

If the service entrance outside your shack is bonded to the ground system, you should be able to use this for your grounding point. If it is continuous conduit or you can see clamps with grounding wires, then it should be fine.

If there isn't one already installed at that location, pick up an IBT (Intersystem Bonding Termination) device to complete the connection. You could already have one of these if your landline or cable connections come in at that point. If not, the big box stores like Lowe's carries them.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

KF5LJW

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Re: Grounding to the AC mains question
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2020, 08:44:45 AM »

Bob bring the coaxes inside where the AC Service enters.

Do yourself a favor and go read this:

http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/bonding/amateur-radio-bonding.html
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NC5T

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Re: Grounding to the AC mains question
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2020, 04:00:12 PM »

Thanks for the info and for putting that out there.  What an excellent read! 

  After taking another look at my situation, I think my best option will be to run the coax through the attic and create an entrance panel next to the AC entrance panel on the house and bond them together as I have in the past.

  After reading the document at the link, another question about "the way I usually set up my shack" came up. 

  I was planning on a 50A pony panel with two dedicated 120 VAC lines along with the 240VAC run for the amp.  I usually just run the line through the attic and put the panel in the shack closet.  This in turn is connected to my shack ground bus and bonded pack to the AC entrance panel, which is bonded to the coax entrance.  Does this sound right or should it be run around the outside in conduit like the description in the document?

Thanks and 73,

Bob
NC5T
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KF5LJW

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Re: Grounding to the AC mains question
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2020, 02:57:15 PM »

Thanks for the info and for putting that out there.  What an excellent read! 

You are welcome

I think my best option will be to run the coax through the attic and create an entrance panel next to the AC entrance panel on the house and bond them together as I have in the past.

You will save yourself a lot of trouble and be light years ahead of most hams. Pretty easy once you know the secret huh?

I was planning on a 50A pony panel with two dedicated 120 VAC lines along with the 240VAC run for the amp.  I usually just run the line through the attic and put the panel in the shack closet.  This in turn is connected to my shack ground bus and bonded pack to the AC entrance panel, which is bonded to the coax entrance.  Does this sound right or should it be run around the outside in conduit like the description in the document?
If you bring the coax inside with the AC Service, no extra steps or work  required. Just run through attic like all your homes AC Branch Circuits. Just follow the directions in the document with respect to bringing your coax in with AC Service. When completed you will have a true single point ground. Once the coax is inside, just run it to the shack with a 6 AWG wire for Station Ground through the attic or crawl-space.

Just make sure to check your DC Power Supply and get rid of the ground. 
Thanks and 73,

Bob
NC5T
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NC5T

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Re: Grounding to the AC mains question
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2020, 07:31:44 PM »

  As it turns out, my new Astron SS-30M does indeed have continuity between the DC ground and the chassis, so I will have to take care of that as well as check my other power supplies for the same issue.

  It is nice to know that I have been on the right track with the grounding and bonding of my shacks in past locations.  This one is a bit tricky as the shack is a good distance away from the mains, other side of the house, but I would rather have a safer setup than have shorter coax runs!

Thanks again and 73,

Bob
NC5T

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KF5LJW

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Re: Grounding to the AC mains question
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2020, 07:55:48 AM »

  As it turns out, my new Astron SS-30M does indeed have continuity between the DC ground and the chassis, so I will have to take care of that as well as check my other power supplies for the same issue.

Well Astrons are not known for quality.
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W9WQA

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Re: Grounding to the AC mains question
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2020, 08:05:45 AM »

  As it turns out, my new Astron SS-30M does indeed have continuity between the DC ground and the chassis, so I will have to take care of that as well as check my other power supplies for the same issue.

i added the ground on my astron. hurts nothing and  dont depend on radio for ground. if radio is un hooked the ground keeps it safer if a primary leakage/short developes.

Well Astrons are not known for quality.
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