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Author Topic: THE LICENSE  (Read 921 times)

KBKZ2105

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THE LICENSE
« on: December 25, 2020, 10:12:57 AM »

I have been a Extra Class for over 30 years.  Do you think that the changes regarding the requirements to obtain a License have contributed to the obscene behavior we hear now on the air? 
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N9FB

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2020, 10:24:20 AM »

i think it more a change in societal norms driven by TV, radio, movies, etc.

i still remember how offensively shocking "Married With Children" was to public norms when it first broke wind on Fox
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W0CKI

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2020, 10:46:47 AM »

I have been a ham for 66 years. Societal norms have certainly changed but the LICENSE requirements have also been dumbed down to the point that you don't have to know much to get one and then purchase a radio, push a button and talk.
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W3HF

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2020, 11:07:31 AM »

I think a bigger factor is that fewer new hams are being Elmered than was the norm 30/40/50 years ago. Much of the "ham radio culture" is now absorbed via the Internet and not face-to-face. So newer hams don't have the peer pressure that comes from spending a lot of time in the presence of other, more-experienced hams.

Add to that the reduction in on-the-air enforcement by the FCC, and the resulting lack of consequences for bad behavior.

That said, I'm sure there's a significant fraction of the obscene/obnoxious behavior that is perpetrated by hams that have been around for decades. That can't be attributed to licensing changes--that's either changes in societal norms, or just bad apples.
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KBKZ2105

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2020, 11:45:13 AM »

I think a bigger factor is that fewer new hams are being Elmered than was the norm 30/40/50 years ago. Much of the "ham radio culture" is now absorbed via the Internet and not face-to-face. So newer hams don't have the peer pressure that comes from spending a lot of time in the presence of other, more-experienced hams.

Add to that the reduction in on-the-air enforcement by the FCC, and the resulting lack of consequences for bad behavior.

That said, I'm sure there's a significant fraction of the obscene/obnoxious behavior that is perpetrated by hams that have been around for decades. That can't be attributed to licensing changes--that's either changes in societal norms, or just bad apples.

You are right I had not thought about that.  The obscene/obnoxious behavior has been around for decades.  Add to that the reduction in on-the-air- enforcement by the FCC, and the resulting lack of consequences for bad behavior. 
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W7XTV

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2020, 11:46:39 AM »

I have been a ham for 66 years. Societal norms have certainly changed but the LICENSE requirements have also been dumbed down to the point that you don't have to know much to get one and then purchase a radio, push a button and talk.

In my 50 years as a ham, I just don't see much difference between the rude, obscene ops of the '70s and those of today.  There may be more of them, but there are also far more hams overall.  I learned very early in my ham "career" to just stay off of 75 meter phone if I didn't want to hear all the BS.
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He speaks fluent PSK31, in FT8...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!

KBKZ2105

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2020, 12:05:03 PM »

In my 50 years as a ham, I just don't see much difference between the rude, obscene ops of the '70s and those of today.  There may be more of them, but there are also far more hams overall.  I learned very early in my ham "career" to just stay off of 75 meter phone if I didn't want to hear all the BS.

Ok I respect that.  Why would you stay away from 75 meter phone?  Either the rules are enforced or they are not.  Are you saying they are not enforced on 75 meters.  I have friends in law enforcement and they have to enforce rules in horrible neighborhoods.  They keep the neighbors happy, the kids safe and the BS people causing trouble to think twice.  That make sense?  75 Meters might be fun if someone cleaned it up?   
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WA9AFM

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2020, 12:18:03 PM »

Been licensed since 1961.  There have been bad actors in the hobby since the days of spark.  Witness the Wouff Hong established by the The Old Man.  When I was in high school, there were some 'lids' on 75m out of Western Kentucky/Tennessee.  Drove everyone nuts in the vicinity of 3.863Mhz.  I do agree, the lack of FCC enforcement along with the lack of peer pressure has allowed things to get out of hand.
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K1FBI

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2020, 12:36:10 PM »

I have been a Extra Class for over 30 years.  Do you think that the changes regarding the requirements to obtain a License have contributed to the obscene behavior we hear now on the air?
With over 30 years experience in the hobby and especially as an Extra class, I would think you could contribute something more valuable than trolling for Controversy.
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W7XTV

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2020, 01:27:01 PM »

In my 50 years as a ham, I just don't see much difference between the rude, obscene ops of the '70s and those of today.  There may be more of them, but there are also far more hams overall.  I learned very early in my ham "career" to just stay off of 75 meter phone if I didn't want to hear all the BS.

Ok I respect that.  Why would you stay away from 75 meter phone?  Either the rules are enforced or they are not.  Are you saying they are not enforced on 75 meters.  I have friends in law enforcement and they have to enforce rules in horrible neighborhoods.  They keep the neighbors happy, the kids safe and the BS people causing trouble to think twice.  That make sense?  75 Meters might be fun if someone cleaned it up?   

The Amateur Radio Service is supposed to be self-policing.  That's been the case for many decades.  The FCC has never had the manpower to enforce every violation on the ham bands, either technical or verbal.  That's what the ARRL Official Observers were supposed to do, although I thought they abandoned that program a few years back.  Better a nastygram from an OO than a citation and possible fine and license suspension from the FCC.
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He speaks fluent PSK31, in FT8...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!

K1FBI

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2020, 02:11:58 PM »

In my 50 years as a ham, I just don't see much difference between the rude, obscene ops of the '70s and those of today.  There may be more of them, but there are also far more hams overall.  I learned very early in my ham "career" to just stay off of 75 meter phone if I didn't want to hear all the BS.

Ok I respect that.  Why would you stay away from 75 meter phone?  Either the rules are enforced or they are not.  Are you saying they are not enforced on 75 meters.  I have friends in law enforcement and they have to enforce rules in horrible neighborhoods.  They keep the neighbors happy, the kids safe and the BS people causing trouble to think twice.  That make sense?  75 Meters might be fun if someone cleaned it up?   

The Amateur Radio Service is supposed to be self-policing.  That's been the case for many decades.  The FCC has never had the manpower to enforce every violation on the ham bands, either technical or verbal.  That's what the ARRL Official Observers were supposed to do, although I thought they abandoned that program a few years back.  Better a nastygram from an OO than a citation and possible fine and license suspension from the FCC.
Boy was I surprised when I got something in the mail from an O.O.; what did I do wrong now??

I was relieved to see that it was an observance of my good operating practices.
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K6AER

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2020, 02:49:04 PM »

I have been a Extra Class for over 30 years.  Do you think that the changes regarding the requirements to obtain a License have contributed to the obscene behavior we hear now on the air?

This is your second troll question in less than a week.

If you have had your license for thirty years why not post your real call on this site?
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W7XTV

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2020, 04:06:35 PM »

In my 50 years as a ham, I just don't see much difference between the rude, obscene ops of the '70s and those of today.  There may be more of them, but there are also far more hams overall.  I learned very early in my ham "career" to just stay off of 75 meter phone if I didn't want to hear all the BS.

Ok I respect that.  Why would you stay away from 75 meter phone?  Either the rules are enforced or they are not.  Are you saying they are not enforced on 75 meters.  I have friends in law enforcement and they have to enforce rules in horrible neighborhoods.  They keep the neighbors happy, the kids safe and the BS people causing trouble to think twice.  That make sense?  75 Meters might be fun if someone cleaned it up?   

The Amateur Radio Service is supposed to be self-policing.  That's been the case for many decades.  The FCC has never had the manpower to enforce every violation on the ham bands, either technical or verbal.  That's what the ARRL Official Observers were supposed to do, although I thought they abandoned that program a few years back.  Better a nastygram from an OO than a citation and possible fine and license suspension from the FCC.
Boy was I surprised when I got something in the mail from an O.O.; what did I do wrong now??

I was relieved to see that it was an observance of my good operating practices.

I got one once, soon after I bought an SSB transceiver after upgrading to General in 1971.  I was told I was transmitting on 7301 kHz -- just enough out of the band.  Again, better a nastygram from an OO than a citation from Uncle Charlie.
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He speaks fluent PSK31, in FT8...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!

N2EY

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2020, 04:29:10 PM »

I think the single biggest factor in the bad behavior of a few....rotten apples....is the lack of effective enforcement by FCC.

50+ years ago, when I got started, most of believed the FCC was carefully listening to the amateur bands, and that ANY infraction would bring down The Wrath Of The G-Men.

You could lose your license, have your equipment confiscated, have to pay a serious fine (up to $20,000, which inflates to about $200,000 today), even go to Federal prison.

We knew the FCC had state-of-the-art DF gear, and could track you down in minutes. They could record your signals for proof.

We all kept accurate logbooks, not just because it was required, but because we would know for sure when we were on the air in case there was any question.

Most of all, we knew the FCC would act swiftly and decisively, in days, not years. Lawyering up wouldn't help either.

All that changed during the CB craze and afterwards.
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W7XTV

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Re: THE LICENSE
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2020, 05:42:40 PM »

I think the single biggest factor in the bad behavior of a few....rotten apples....is the lack of effective enforcement by FCC.

50+ years ago, when I got started, most of believed the FCC was carefully listening to the amateur bands, and that ANY infraction would bring down The Wrath Of The G-Men.

You could lose your license, have your equipment confiscated, have to pay a serious fine (up to $20,000, which inflates to about $200,000 today), even go to Federal prison.

We knew the FCC had state-of-the-art DF gear, and could track you down in minutes. They could record your signals for proof.

We all kept accurate logbooks, not just because it was required, but because we would know for sure when we were on the air in case there was any question.

Most of all, we knew the FCC would act swiftly and decisively, in days, not years. Lawyering up wouldn't help either.

I believed then, and still do, that the FCC and ARRL wanted us to believe that in order to keep willful violations to a minimum.  Sure, the FCC went after the worst offenders, but how many guys actually got nailed each year?  It wasn't many, compared to the roughly 200,000 licensed hams at the time, and there had to be more than one serious offense.

There were always warnings about FCC inspections of our stations.  I never personally knew even one ham who had the FCC knocking on his door.
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He speaks fluent PSK31, in FT8...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!
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