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Author Topic: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.  (Read 2527 times)

W6MK

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2021, 01:08:06 PM »

A bit of grammar from a retired teacher:
Looser is what happens to a nut when I turn the wrench counter-clockwise (unless it's an old Chrysler product!!).

A+. But just remember that a looser nut can become a loser.
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K5WLR

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2021, 01:18:42 PM »

A bit of grammar from a retired teacher:
Looser is what happens to a nut when I turn the wrench counter-clockwise (unless it's an old Chrysler product!!).

A+. But just remember that a looser nut can become a loser.

... and if it gets a bit looser, it can become lost!!!
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KBKZ2105

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2021, 01:19:23 PM »

A bit of grammar from a retired teacher:

Loser is a person who does not win a contest or a trial, etc.

Looser is what happens to a nut when I turn the wrench counter-clockwise (unless it's an old Chrysler product!!).

Just thought y'all would like to know. (Yes, I know y'all ain't good grammar, but I live in the Mid South!)

'nuff said!

Will Rogers
K5WLR

Did you take the time to actually read this entire thread.  Consider that your homework. 
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K5WLR

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2021, 01:25:47 PM »

Yes, I have... at some point our government will require us to pay for the privilege of being amateur radio operators. Over the years, I have paid for my license, either a fee for the license or the vanity fee. It is, in my opinion, a small price to pay for the privilege and pleasure this hobby brings me. Just have to dig a little deep once every 10 years. And, so, I will.

End of discussion for me.

73

Will Rogers
K5WLR
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KBKZ2105

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2021, 01:44:05 PM »

I appreciate your service as a teacher.  You want to give another grammar lesson?  You were pretty quick to jump and pile on me for my spelling.  Not everyone is perfect. 
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KM1H

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2021, 01:56:54 PM »

A bit of grammar from a retired teacher:
Looser is what happens to a nut when I turn the wrench counter-clockwise (unless it's an old Chrysler product!!).


A+. But just remember that a looser nut can become a loser.


Plus a few British lug nuts. The Trolling losers on here are all nuts.
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K5WLR

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2021, 02:07:38 PM »

I appreciate your service as a teacher.  You want to give another grammar lesson?  You were pretty quick to jump and pile on me for my spelling.  Not everyone is perfect.

Nothing personal, my friend. Just wanted to pass that along. I am definitely not perfect. My shack suffers from what an old friend who is now SK would call the "field day mentality." So, no perfection here.

My apology if one is needed...

73

Will
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KBKZ2105

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2021, 02:13:24 PM »

Thanks Will!!  No apology needed my friend.  Thanks again for your service as a Teacher. 

73
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KM1H

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2021, 03:36:32 PM »

Quote
Nothing personal, my friend. Just wanted to pass that along. I am definitely not perfect. My shack suffers from what an old friend who is now SK would call the "field day mentality." So, no perfection here.

My apology if one is needed...

I and some others have him blocked due to continuous caustic trolling all over Eham.  Ignoring is the best solution for someone with OCS, Oppositional Conversational Style, quite a lot about it on Google.

Carl
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N2EY

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2021, 07:55:44 AM »

Yes, I have... at some point our government will require us to pay for the privilege of being amateur radio operators. Over the years, I have paid for my license, either a fee for the license or the vanity fee. It is, in my opinion, a small price to pay for the privilege and pleasure this hobby brings me. Just have to dig a little deep once every 10 years. And, so, I will.

End of discussion for me.

73

Will Rogers
K5WLR

Well said! Same here!

A bit of personal history...

Looking back at over 53 years as a licensed radio amateur, I think I got a pretty good deal. Let's see....

My 1967 Novice was free. My 1968 Technician and Advanced cost $4 each (FCC charged for tests from March 1964 to December 31, 1976). My 1970 Extra cost $9, and when I renewed it in 1975 the fee was $4.

Since then, no fees at all. (N2EY is not a vanity call).

So...let's see....
Technician $4 ($33.45 in 2019 dollars)
Advanced $4 ($33.45 in 2019 dollars)
Extra $9 ($60.09 in 2019 dollars)
Renewal $4 ($19.27 in 2019 dollars)

Total fees: $21 ($146.26 in 2019 dollars, per the Westegg Inflation Calculator). All paid in a period of just 7 years!

License terms were only 5 years back then. Uphill both ways in 3 feet of August snow, too.

----

Here's what I think the REAL issue is, based on observations since before I was licensed, and research even further back.

For some reason, a considerable number of radio amateurs think that "the rules" should be whatever they were when THEY started out. "The rules" can include FCC rules, the price of radios, how particular things are done, callsign assignments, band edges, license tests, and of course fees.

I first noticed this way back in the 1960s when "incentive licensing" was the hot topic.

In those days, there were six license classes, (Novice, Technician, Conditional, General, Advanced, Extra). Only Novice and Technician had limited privileges; the other four license classes allowed all authorized modes and full legal power on all US amateur frequencies.

That state of affairs had only existed since mid-February 1953, but in the 1960s most US hams had been licensed after that. (US amateur radio licenses grew from about 100,000 in 1950 to about 250,000 in the early 1960s). Most US hams then were Conditionals or Generals. Despite having been created in 1951, there were only a few thousand Extras - it was the least-numerous license in the structure.

Many if not most of the "newcomers" who had full privileges thought that once they'd earned their Generals or Conditionals they were ENTITLED to full privileges FOREVER. They didn't know and/or didn't care what the license privileges had been before 1953, they only knew that they were ENTITLED to full privileges. They were OUTRAGED that they might lose privileges, and would have to take another test or two in order to regain them.

Over time, the idea of multiple license classes with different privileges for each became accepted by most. But you'll still come across the occasional old-timer who whines about "incentive licensing".

The same thing happened when FM replaced AM on VHF, when solids-state gear began to displace hollow-state, when computers showed up in ham shacks, when the VE system was created, whenever license requirements changed, when the power limit increased for most modes but decreased for others, when remote stations via internet became possible, etc.

And the folks who have this attitude hold onto their grudges FOREVER. Not just about "incentive licensing", either. For example:

It used to be that one's callsign had to match the call district of one's station license. Move across a boundary and you got a new call. That went away in the late 1970s, well over 40 years ago, but some folks still complain about it.

It used to be that if you moved across call-district lines you had to restart DXCC (except if the move was less than 150 miles). About 50 years ago, that rule was changed to "all DXCC Qs must be made from the same DXCC entity to qualify". For some folks, that RUINED DXCC.

LOTW? There are folks who claim that only paper QSLs are "real confirmations".

This attitude even affects used radio prices. I've seen current-model used radios for sale at prices very close to the new price. The mindset of the seller seems to be "I paid over $1000 for this new, it's barely used and less than two years old, so I should get $900 for it." Never mind that the price has dropped and a new one with a warranty sells for $850 today; they are ENTITLED to $900 because they paid over $1000.

And so now we have folks who think that, because US amateur licenses were free when they started out, they should always be free.

73 de Jim, N2EY


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K1FBI

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2021, 08:13:28 AM »

Yes, I have... at some point our government will require us to pay for the privilege of being amateur radio operators. Over the years, I have paid for my license, either a fee for the license or the vanity fee. It is, in my opinion, a small price to pay for the privilege and pleasure this hobby brings me. Just have to dig a little deep once every 10 years. And, so, I will.

End of discussion for me.

73

Will Rogers
K5WLR

Well said! Same here!

A bit of personal history...

Looking back at over 53 years as a licensed radio amateur, I think I got a pretty good deal. Let's see....

My 1967 Novice was free. My 1968 Technician and Advanced cost $4 each (FCC charged for tests from March 1964 to December 31, 1976). My 1970 Extra cost $9, and when I renewed it in 1975 the fee was $4.

Since then, no fees at all. (N2EY is not a vanity call).

So...let's see....
Technician $4 ($33.45 in 2019 dollars)
Advanced $4 ($33.45 in 2019 dollars)
Extra $9 ($60.09 in 2019 dollars)
Renewal $4 ($19.27 in 2019 dollars)

Total fees: $21 ($146.26 in 2019 dollars, per the Westegg Inflation Calculator). All paid in a period of just 7 years!

License terms were only 5 years back then. Uphill both ways in 3 feet of August snow, too.

----

Here's what I think the REAL issue is, based on observations since before I was licensed, and research even further back.

For some reason, a considerable number of radio amateurs think that "the rules" should be whatever they were when THEY started out. "The rules" can include FCC rules, the price of radios, how particular things are done, callsign assignments, band edges, license tests, and of course fees.

I first noticed this way back in the 1960s when "incentive licensing" was the hot topic.

In those days, there were six license classes, (Novice, Technician, Conditional, General, Advanced, Extra). Only Novice and Technician had limited privileges; the other four license classes allowed all authorized modes and full legal power on all US amateur frequencies.

That state of affairs had only existed since mid-February 1953, but in the 1960s most US hams had been licensed after that. (US amateur radio licenses grew from about 100,000 in 1950 to about 250,000 in the early 1960s). Most US hams then were Conditionals or Generals. Despite having been created in 1951, there were only a few thousand Extras - it was the least-numerous license in the structure.

Many if not most of the "newcomers" who had full privileges thought that once they'd earned their Generals or Conditionals they were ENTITLED to full privileges FOREVER. They didn't know and/or didn't care what the license privileges had been before 1953, they only knew that they were ENTITLED to full privileges. They were OUTRAGED that they might lose privileges, and would have to take another test or two in order to regain them.

Over time, the idea of multiple license classes with different privileges for each became accepted by most. But you'll still come across the occasional old-timer who whines about "incentive licensing".

The same thing happened when FM replaced AM on VHF, when solids-state gear began to displace hollow-state, when computers showed up in ham shacks, when the VE system was created, whenever license requirements changed, when the power limit increased for most modes but decreased for others, when remote stations via internet became possible, etc.

And the folks who have this attitude hold onto their grudges FOREVER. Not just about "incentive licensing", either. For example:

It used to be that one's callsign had to match the call district of one's station license. Move across a boundary and you got a new call. That went away in the late 1970s, well over 40 years ago, but some folks still complain about it.

It used to be that if you moved across call-district lines you had to restart DXCC (except if the move was less than 150 miles). About 50 years ago, that rule was changed to "all DXCC Qs must be made from the same DXCC entity to qualify". For some folks, that RUINED DXCC.

LOTW? There are folks who claim that only paper QSLs are "real confirmations".

This attitude even affects used radio prices. I've seen current-model used radios for sale at prices very close to the new price. The mindset of the seller seems to be "I paid over $1000 for this new, it's barely used and less than two years old, so I should get $900 for it." Never mind that the price has dropped and a new one with a warranty sells for $850 today; they are ENTITLED to $900 because they paid over $1000.

And so now we have folks who think that, because US amateur licenses were free when they started out, they should always be free.

73 de Jim, N2EY
Not only do they think their used rig with no warrantee is worth as much as a new one, they want you to pay shipping when they received free shipping.

The real scoundrels demand PayPal and want you to pay the PayPal fee for them, which violates PayPal policy.
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KM1H

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2021, 01:27:41 PM »

Quote
Not only do they think their used rig with no warrantee is worth as much as a new one, they want you to pay shipping when they received free shipping.

There is no such thing as FREE shipping, it is already included in the selling price.

Quote
The real scoundrels demand PayPal and want you to pay the PayPal fee for them, which violates PayPal policy.

I wouldnt get upset over that as PayPal has screwed millions of dollars out of people and there is no recourse as if it was a real bank.

Carl
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K1FBI

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2021, 01:38:47 PM »

Quote
Not only do they think their used rig with no warrantee is worth as much as a new one, they want you to pay shipping when they received free shipping.

There is no such thing as FREE shipping, it is already included in the selling price.

Quote
The real scoundrels demand PayPal and want you to pay the PayPal fee for them, which violates PayPal policy.

I wouldnt get upset over that as PayPal has screwed millions of dollars out of people and there is no recourse as if it was a real bank.

Carl
Which only enforces the point that asking $900 plus shipping and PayPal fees for a 2 year old rig with “no returns” is ridiculous when the same rig new is $999.99 shipped with a guarantee.
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KBKZ2105

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2021, 03:25:04 PM »

Why anyone would buy old used gear in this hobby is crazy.  Unless they just had to have it.  It's a communication device. Get something you can count on.  Like your adult pacifier.     
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KM1H

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Re: New Licensing fee. What I plan to do about it.
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2021, 05:03:16 PM »

Why anyone would buy old used gear in this hobby is crazy.  Unless they just had to have it.  It's a communication device. Get something you can count on.  Like your adult pacifier.     

Some of us with the education plus experience prefer the older gear SS and tube. I find working on it and operating is very relaxing unlike the signals for much of the later stuff.

You seem to stick to Eham as your pacifier after continuing to say "this is my last post"  What a crutch and can I call you Gary again?
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