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Author Topic: License fee impacts?  (Read 697 times)

AC2EU

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2021, 03:39:31 PM »

This gives new meaning to  the 'CHEAP HAM"

Ok, I can see I'm in the minority on my point of view.
The "as long as I can still afford it" attitude seem to be prevailing. What about when you get nickle and dimed with fees and taxes where you no longer are able to afford it? The more you give, the more they ask.

Apathy is enemy of democracy. That's why we have "do as I say, not as I do" types running the country.
Wait till you hear the covid19 excuses for massive tax hikes this year.
But, hey, don't be cheap-DIG DEEP. We'll be like Belgium with a 60% tax rate in no time.

N9PS

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2021, 03:43:32 PM »

We are talking less than 1 penny a day over the 10 year license term. Being realistic, if you feel you can't afford that, do you think you can afford a rig, antennas, etc.?
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AC2EU

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2021, 03:47:03 PM »

We are talking less than 1 penny a day over the 10 year license term. Being realistic, if you feel you can't afford that, do you think you can afford a rig, antennas, etc.?

Sadly, everybody is missing the point. I give up.

W8JJ

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2021, 03:48:11 PM »

After 28 years as a ham, I think $35 is a value at twice the price. Why should non-hams subsidize our hobby? Isn't that socialism? I hear grumpy old men on-the-air all day and night complaining about government handouts. Well, a "free" license is a hand out as I see it. Something that is free is worth exactly what you pay for it.

I'm okay with thinning the herd a bit and letting the committed hams among us keep pushing the hobby forward. Let those unused licenses expire and free up some additional vanity calls. Further, we can get an accurate census of the actual number of active hams. Licenses are super easy to get these days. So, if someone decides to let their license expire to save $35 so be it. They know where to find us if inspired to do so in the future. It only takes a few hours spent memorizing the answers to the exam and they're back in business.
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WA9AFM

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2021, 03:53:34 PM »

Only time will tell what the impact of the "application fee" might be.  I just hope the FCC doesn't expect the VECs to collect the fees.  If they do, I'll turn in my VE credentials.

It is my understanding the applicant will pay the fee online through the FCC ULS page.  At present, the fee is not being applied as the payment system is not yet up and running.
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W9IQ

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2021, 04:33:38 PM »

The sad thing is that the FCC has acknowledged it costs them $25 just to process a payment. I offered to do it for half that amount but I am still waiting for a response.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

K6AER

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2021, 05:01:41 PM »

Average cost of a cell phone is $40 monthly and a penny a day for more communication spectrum than anyone could imagine is going to break the bank!

Cost of a first-class HF station:

House in the country $360,000.00
80 foot Tower with Rotor $7000.
Bad ass 4 element  SteppIR Beam $4000
Top of the line HF radio $4000
Amplifier $4000
Station peripherals $3000

A penny a day for my license, oh my god I can’t afford that!!!

This reminds me of the saying, “I was going to go yacht racing but I could not afford the tennis shoes”.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 05:03:42 PM by K6AER »
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KM1H

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2021, 05:02:30 PM »

We are talking less than 1 penny a day over the 10 year license term. Being realistic, if you feel you can't afford that, do you think you can afford a rig, antennas, etc.?

Sadly, everybody is missing the point. I give up.

Promise?
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AC2EU

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2021, 05:06:14 PM »

We are talking less than 1 penny a day over the 10 year license term. Being realistic, if you feel you can't afford that, do you think you can afford a rig, antennas, etc.?

Sadly, everybody is missing the point. I give up.

Yes Carl, just for you and your comrades.



Promise?

N2EY

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2021, 06:35:10 PM »

Here is the rub for me:

Why do we accept the concept of a government agency collecting a fee to do it's job?
They are already supported by taxes. Seems like double dipping to me.

It's not just the FCC either, it's the DMV, courts, etc, as well.
So we have income tax, real estate tax, sales tax, gas tax, tolls, and if the government actually DOES something for us, we have to pay for it's "service"?

 I think we should complain loudly as the FCC wants to join the "bilk the public" party.

It may seem that way to you, but it's really just a matter of how The Legislators We Elected decide to do things.

For the past 40+ years, US amateur licenses have been "free" to the licensee - the costs were all paid for by the taxpayers. (VE fees go to reimburse the costs of testing; the FCC doesn't get a penny of those fees. Vanity calls had fees for a time but then FCC decided collecting the money wasn't worth the costs and effort.

Then in 2018 The Congress enacted a law commonly called "Ray Baum's Act" which requires FCC to enact applicationfees for various kinds of licenses - including amateur radio licenses. That's why the appicaltion fee. (FCC actually defines both application fees and regulatory fees, and we get a freebie on regulatory fees.

Supposedly, making licensees pay for license applications will ease the tax burden on everyone. (And our new licenses will be delivered by flying unicorns....)

The philosophy behind it is that the person getting the benefit of the license is the licensee, so why should the taxpayers foot the bill?



 
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G8FXC

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2021, 01:21:43 AM »

I think that there is quite a lot of ambiguity in attitude towards licencing on the US side of the big pond. You want licence fees to remain low, but you also expect the FCC to be very proactive in its approach to amateur radio (and other) licences - there is a cost associated with that and you have to bear it.

On this side of the pond, most licences are free or very close to it. OFCOM - our FCC - has a fairly generic licencing web site and database and it is a self-service process. This applies to things other than amateur radio licences - we bought a new boat a couple of years ago and needed a marine radio licence for it. I signed into the licencing portal using the same credentials that I use for amateur radio licencing, selected the "Apply for new marine radio licence" option, filled in a couple of pages of forms, hit the "Submit" button and immediately received my new licence as a PDF file for me to print locally. There was no fee and no human involvement at the OFCOM end.

Amateur radio licences are similarly free - and valid for the lifetime of the licensee. We are required to go into the OFCOM portal at least once every five years to tell them that we are still alive, but it is a free transaction...

The consequence of this is, of course, that OFCOM maintain a very light touch. You really do have to misbehave pretty badly before they come looking for you! There is virtually none of these complex and time consuming rule making processes that you guys seem to be going through much of the time. The terms and conditions of our licences are pretty static most of the time. This suits me - and seems to suit most radio amateurs in Britain.

Martin (G8FXC)
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SWMAN

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2021, 03:57:44 AM »

The good thing about all this price increase for licensing is that the people who don't want to pay the higher price won't do so and will not renew. That way we can clean up the bands and get rid of some of the rif raf trash that is on the bands that you hear all the time. In the end we will be the winners.
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N2EY

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2021, 06:48:22 AM »

I'm not talking about the taxes which PAY the FCC employees, My problem is the SECONDARY license fees.
It's been a "free service" which was supported by taxes all along. Now they want taxes AND FEES.

Yes, they do. Because The Congress ordered it.

For example, in my parents day, garbage collection was performed by the DPW as part of the property taxes .
Fast forward to present. DPW Garbage collection is charged as if it's a private entity.

They made trash collection a separate fee rather than raise the property taxes.

The take away here is, the more you are willing to pay, the more you WILL pay in the future as the politicians discover they can get away with it.
Fiscal responsibility isn't even in the vocabulary of government officials. Just go to the public ATM.

Maybe I should teach civics...

So what would you have radio amateurs do?

The ARRL managed to get the fee lowered from $50 to $35. Now it's less than a penny a day.

Is that too much?
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AC2EU

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2021, 07:57:35 AM »

Well,no sense in fighting the tide!
Everyone has been conditioned to pay more fees and taxes , yet receive less benefit from said fees and taxes.
I don't buy the argument that it's "unfair" that our licensure is part of the budget.( It's always been that way!)
There are TONS of govt programs that I don't benefit from, but my taxes support them none the less.

Do you really think the national tax rate is going to decrease because they are going to charge fees now?
( OK, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in)

Waste and corruption is now thoroughly accepted and expected.  Ok guys, just remember that you were on board with the every increasing taxes and fees when you wake up one day to find that 80% of your income is going to the government in some way.
Just because "congress ordered it", doesn't make it right. That sounds more like a dictatorship than "government by the people". Just sayin'...


 

KM1H

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Re: License fee impacts?
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2021, 08:40:08 AM »

Those expecting a free ride on anything they can get their grubby little hands on make me sick.
Citizens of any country DO NOT OWN the airwaves and paying a small fee as a use tax should be expected. Those complaining about a penny a day should be shunned and ignored.

Carl
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