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Author Topic: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct  (Read 1410 times)

AC2EU

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2021, 04:38:00 PM »


kF5LJW     AC2EU

cancel culture

RADIOPHONE: LUDDITE
The FCC has moved on, but you're stuck in the past.

KBKZ2105

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2021, 04:48:11 PM »

Here is what I see in the future.  First of all only a handful of ham radio operators care about this topic. 

Nobody cares anymore how you had to earn your license back in 1955.  I'm sorry but they just don't. 

It's been a rapid decline in testing requirements and on air behavior since around 2003. 

If the testing stays the same and the FCC enforcement of rules stays the same as it is now.  Let that sink in.

The older respectful generation of hams in the next 10 years will sadly pass away.  And more of the new generation will eventually take over and it will be what it will be. 

I know you older folks are hanging on to the notion these younger hams care.  Believe me they don't. 

Listen on the air now. In 10 years you won't even recognize it as ham radio. 

God Bless you all adn stay safe!
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N2EY

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2021, 06:29:42 AM »

I was a bit dismayed to learn from N2EY's thread on FCC License Counts that of the current FCC issued licenses, the Novice and Advanced numbers have rapidly declined, while the General and Extra ranks  continue burgeoning.

Why are you dismayed?

The extinction of the Novice, Technician Plus, and Advanced classes was made inevitable by the restructuring of April 15, 2000 - almost 21 years ago. FCC wanted fewer license classes, and the simplest thing for them to do was stop issuing new Novices, Tech Pluses and Advanceds, so they did.

Back in earl 2000 there were about 50,000 Novices and about 100,000 Advanceds. The License Counts thread shows the current totals.

Technician Plus was the first to go because after the restructuring FCC renewed all Tech Pluses as Tech, regardless of code testing history. By April 2010 they were all gone.

Novice and Advanced have declined because of amateurs who dropped out or upgraded.

I kept my Advanced Call when I passed Elements 1(C) and 4(B), because I liked its sound on CW. I got the Extra just to operate on a bit more of the HF spectrum.

I got the Advanced in 1968 at the age of 14, in the summer between 8th and 9th grade. Extra 2 years later because of the mandatory 2 year experience requirement back then. I didn't want there to be anything US hams were authorized to do that I couldn't.

I still like the extra spectrum privileges, but sometimes wonder if I should have remained in the Advanced Class for nostalgic reasons. At least I'm glad I kept the Call.

Anyone else feel the same?

Why keep a license that limits what you can do?

73 de Jim, N2EY
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N2EY

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2021, 06:30:39 AM »

You are right.

To my way of thinking, in this queer 21st century, an active Novice Class license should be considered the most coveted.  I am serious.

Why?
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AC2EU

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2021, 07:10:45 AM »

You are right.

To my way of thinking, in this queer 21st century, an active Novice Class license should be considered the most coveted.  I am serious.

Why?

Because he wants the attention of your response to his inane statement!

KBKZ2105

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2021, 05:24:58 PM »

Yep, unless the FCC changes the license classifications it's a safe bet that eventually Novice and Advanced Class licensees will eventually disappear.  The Grim Reaper is relentless.

I started out in 1968 with a WN call.  As many of you old timers may remember these were the days when taking your amateur tests meant a trip to your local FCC Field Office.  Back then the Novice License was good for 1 year and was non-renewable.  And the Novice Class licensee could only use up to 75-watts [input] to the final stage of their transmitter, and they could only use crystal controlled transmitters on a few small segments of a few amateur bands.  This was also back when there was no Internet to run to, to read and memorize the questions and answers.  And course there were the various CW tests to pass too.  Back then Novice Class licensee had a lot of incentive to study, learn and pass the Technician or higher license class, or go off the air after a year. 

As many hams did, I worked my way up through all 5 license classes (Novice, Tech, General, Advanced, and Extra).  Granted it was a different time back then, but I definitely remember feeling a very high sense of pride when I passed my Novice license.  The Novice License was basically a license to learn. 

Personally I think a mistake was made eliminating the Novice and Advanced Class license classes.  Based on what I've read lately the ARRL's focus seems to be lobbying the FCC to give away more privilege's to the lower class licensees.  Perhaps their main goal is ensure a steady increase in the amateur population. 

Providing many achievement license steps (5 is a good number), with actual corresponding steps of improving privileges, would not only provide more incentive steps for people to aim for, study and work toward, but also it would instills a lot of pride in ones license class.  Imagine if changes were made to the General Class to where they could only use portions of the all of the HF bands, and could only use 400 watts.  And imagine if the Advanced Class added additional band segments with a 1kw power limitation, and passing the Extra Class tested yielded all the band segments and full legal limit (1500 watts).  Yeah, I know... additional OO and FCC enforcement would be required, but consider, we'd have a lot more people studying and taking pride in their increasing achievements and privileges.  It's been my experience that people tend to have a much higher respect for something when they have to work hard for it.

Instill pride in ones license class.  It's been my experience that people tend to have a much higher respect for something when they have to work hard for it. 
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W7XTV

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2021, 07:52:33 PM »

I still like the extra spectrum privileges, but sometimes wonder if I should have remained in the Advanced Class for nostalgic reasons. At least I'm glad I kept the Call.

Anyone else feel the same?

Why keep a license that limits what you can do?

73 de Jim, N2EY

Simple, in my case.  I've been an Advanced for 48 of my 50 years in ham radio.  I have less than zero interest in CW, and the slivers of Extra phone bands on 80, 20, and 15 meters are something I have little need for.  A "fancy" callsign doesn't mean all that much, because 2x1 and 1x2 calls are too hard to come by, and I've had 2x2 calls already for 30 years, my current one for the last 17.  Who cares if it starts with AA-AL, K, N, or W?

If I were to upgrade, and I won't completely rule it out, it'll be because I want to, not for any new privileges that I wouldn't use anyway.  But I can do anything I want to do as an Advanced.
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He speaks fluent PSK31, in FT8...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!

RADIOPHONE

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2021, 08:55:47 PM »

" LUDDITE
The FCC has moved on, but you're stuck in the past."

That is a lie. The FCC has not moved on. They still renew Novice and Advanced class licenses.
I like the past. It is a much better place than the present or future. When you get older you will understand.

"Because he wants the attention of your response to his inane statement! "
That is another lie.

"Why keep a license that limits what you can do? "
"I didn't want there to be anything US hams were authorized to do that I couldn't."

Well, good for you. You had a reason why YOU wanted to upgrade. Fine. That was a good thing for you to do.
But then, on the other hand, for example...If all YOU ever wanted to do was to work 160 meters...no interest in any other band at all...It would just be plain silly to "upgrade".

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RADIOPHONE

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2021, 09:15:05 PM »

You are right.

To my way of thinking, in this queer 21st century, an active Novice Class license should be considered the most coveted.  I am serious.

Why?

Well, there are many, many reasons why...but here are just 2 reasons why....
1. Holding an active Novice class license means beyond any doubt that you are not a Tech to Instant Extra in a day type HAM.

2. Holding an active Novice ticket means that you are from a time where you are much less likely to be a 21st century "man", gen-Xer +, tootie-fruity, crapper-rapper, or a communist/cancel culture type.

There you go...Two brief, quick answers as to "why?".
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KBKZ2105

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2021, 06:34:11 AM »

Well, there are many, many reasons why...but here are just 2 reasons why....
1. Holding an active Novice class license means beyond any doubt that you are not a Tech to Instant Extra in a day type HAM.

2. Holding an active Novice ticket means that you are from a time where you are much less likely to be a 21st century "man", gen-Xer +, tootie-fruity, crapper-rapper, or a communist/cancel culture type.

There you go...Two brief, quick answers as to "why?".

I'm sorry if this offends you guys that are wound up
so tight your head is about to explode but that is funny.

He makes 2 valid points. 

OMG that made my morning. 

Carry on adn God Bless you all.     
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AC2EU

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2021, 06:41:18 AM »

You are right.

To my way of thinking, in this queer 21st century, an active Novice Class license should be considered the most coveted.  I am serious.

Why?

Well, there are many, many reasons why...but here are just 2 reasons why....
1. Holding an active Novice class license means beyond any doubt that you are not a Tech to Instant Extra in a day type HAM.

2. Holding an active Novice ticket means that you are from a time where you are much less likely to be a 21st century "man", gen-Xer +, tootie-fruity, crapper-rapper, or a communist/cancel culture type.

There you go...Two brief, quick answers as to "why?".

You have been a "Novice" for DECADES, which you claim defines you as a man.
Are you Forrest Gump?

KBKZ2105

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2021, 06:55:12 AM »

It means your not a crapper-rapper. 

Calm down. 

Do you not understand his point? 

Bless you my Son.   
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KN6SU

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2021, 08:46:01 AM »


Why are you dismayed?

The extinction of the Novice, Technician Plus, and Advanced classes was made inevitable by the restructuring of April 15, 2000 - almost 21 years ago. FCC wanted fewer license classes, and the simplest thing for them to do was stop issuing new Novices, Tech Pluses and Advanceds, so they did.

Back in earl 2000 there were about 50,000 Novices and about 100,000 Advanceds. The License Counts thread shows the current totals.

Technician Plus was the first to go because after the restructuring FCC renewed all Tech Pluses as Tech, regardless of code testing history. By April 2010 they were all gone.

Novice and Advanced have declined because of amateurs who dropped out or upgraded.

I got the Advanced in 1968 at the age of 14, in the summer between 8th and 9th grade. Extra 2 years later because of the mandatory 2 year experience requirement back then. I didn't want there to be anything US hams were authorized to do that I couldn't.

I still like the extra spectrum privileges, but sometimes wonder if I should have remained in the Advanced Class for nostalgic reasons. At least I'm glad I kept the Call.

Anyone else feel the same?

Why keep a license that limits what you can do?

73 de Jim, N2EY

I was just expressing nostalgia for the loss of two license classes and was curious how others who are or had been members of those classes, felt about it.

I understand that the Hobby, like life in general, evolves by a process of selection, either natural or artificial. New forms appear and others become extinct like the dinosaurs...or the Dodo bird for those who could care less about or even welcome the extinction.

I kept my callsign after getting CSCE's for elements 1(C) and 4(B) because I liked its rhythm in CW, but I did request the upgrade to Extra from the FCC because I wanted to operate on those (then) relatively uncrowded bits of 80, 40, 20, and 15 meters reserved for the Extra class. The additional phone privileges on 15, 20 and 80 were the most important for me at the time and still are. I'm glad to have them and do not want to give them up, which I would have to do had I remained in the Advanced class, according to the current FCC HF band class assignments . However, if FCC rules allowed Advanced licensees full spectrum privileges I would be happy to have remained or now revert to the Advanced class.

Hope this answers your questions.

BTW, I appreciate your excellent thread that keeps us updated on the numbers of our fellow hams.

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KBKZ2105

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2021, 09:19:51 AM »

Great post and appreciate your comments. 

I don't care about numbers.  I don't look at ham radio like a used car lot. 

Opinions vary.   
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RADIOPHONE

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Re: Novice and Advanced Will Become Extinct
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2021, 07:55:44 PM »

AC2EU babbles:
"You have been a "Novice" for DECADES, which you claim defines you as a man.
Are you Forrest Gump?"

What is this babble?

Nobody on this thread has said that have been a Novice for "DECADES".

Weird. Just plain weird.
Must be a 21st century "man".
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